I'm like Herman Munster

[Mike Turco]

Anybody remember The Munsters? There was the episode where Herman went to
the doctor and broke the doctor's scale? When asked about his weight, Herman
would say he weighed "three times", because the scale went 'round three
times when he got on it.

I feel like that.

And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and all
that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than that
low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce back
bigger than before!)

Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can loose
weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a program.
Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
doctor for a prescription.

(Do people still do the ECA thing? Does that work well?)

By the weigh, I gotta do something. I have diabetes and fat deposits in my
liver, and I need to lose about a hundred pounds to once again be slim and
healthy.

Mike

[Patricia Heil]

I like the ad for the arthritis aid where they use
Frankenstein and show him doing T'ai Chi and reading
to kids at the library.

If this is adult onset diabetes why hasn't your doctor
referred you to a registered dietitian or state-licensed
nutritionist who specializes in working with diabetics?
Ask the doctor why that hasn't been done. You may want
to switch doctors.

Because any doctor who doesn't know that adult onset diabetes
is treated with exercise and changes in eating habits, doesn't
know what s/he is doing.

In the meantime start exercising. Like walking around the
block or around the concourse at the nearest mall.

Mike Turco wrote:
>
> Anybody remember The Munsters? There was the episode where Herman went to
> the doctor and broke the doctor's scale? When asked about his weight, Herman
> would say he weighed "three times", because the scale went 'round three
> times when he got on it.
>
> I feel like that.
>
> And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and all
> that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
> Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than that
> low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce back
> bigger than before!)
>
> Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can loose
> weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
> something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a program.
> Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
> doctor for a prescription.
>
> (Do people still do the ECA thing? Does that work well?)
>
> By the weigh, I gotta do something. I have diabetes and fat deposits in my
> liver, and I need to lose about a hundred pounds to once again be slim and
> healthy.
>
> Mike

[Mineral Mu_n]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:25:57 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:

>Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can loose
>weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
>something, please.

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Want to ask the author, Dr. Chung, a question?

Ask away. He is listening.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030829.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Miss Jaime]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:25:57 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:

>Anybody remember The Munsters? There was the episode where Herman went to
>the doctor and broke the doctor's scale? When asked about his weight, Herman
>would say he weighed "three times", because the scale went 'round three
>times when he got on it.
>
>I feel like that.

I actually just saw that very episode a little while ago.


>And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and all
>that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
>Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than that
>low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce back
>bigger than before!)

If you did so well on Atkins then why not go back to it
with more determination to suceed.
I lost 45 pounds on it originally and fortunately never gained it back
but have *maintained* myself around 330 pounds and I was eating a lot
of crap.
Now I am back on Atkins and ready to kick things up a notch or two
again to see where and how far I can go on it.


>Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago.

Congrats on that. I quit smoking 10 years ago myself and it was the
best thing I ever did for myself then.

Now for me it is all about losing weight and getting healthier that
way.



> If I can do that, I can loose
>weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
>something, please.

http://atkins.com/index.html

http://www.thewalkingsite.com/beginner.html


Start with these. I am.



> I seem to do well at things when I get onto a program.

Just get into a daily routine and you'll do fine. :-)



>Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
>doctor for a prescription.

You don't need drugs to help you lose weight.


>(Do people still do the ECA thing? Does that work well?)

Ask the ppl who died from it.....didn't work for them.



>By the weigh, I gotta do something. I have diabetes and fat deposits in my
>liver, and I need to lose about a hundred pounds to once again be slim and
>healthy.

Well I think if Atkins worked welll for you then it should work well
for you again.
Try it for 2 weeks then assess yourself and go from there.

And again...congrats on quitting smoking. :-)

[Jayjay]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:25:57 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:
>
>And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and all
>that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
>Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than that
>low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce back
>bigger than before!)

OK - sorry to be harsh here- but you obviously don't have the "tons of
knowledge about calories, carbs, fats and all that crap..." If you
did - you wouldn't be where you are today.

If atkins worked for you before, there's no reason it won't work for
you again. But, obviously if you've done this before and failed -
then you didn't learn a damned thing.

Calories in vs. calories out. Plain and simple.

What happens is - you seem to be taking the "diet" approach - stay
good enough for long enough to lose the weight - then go back to your
old eating habits. You'll continue to be fat and yoyo until you
realize that its your old eating habits that are making you fat. You
have to get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones.

You cannot eat the volume, quantity and quality of food you have been
eating. You must change those values.

Bottom line - your eating habits are making you fat. You must make a
permanent change.

>
>Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can loose
>weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
>something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a program.
>Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
>doctor for a prescription.

There is no magic pill, and certainly if you are having health
problems because of your weight - it is not recommended to take any
dietary aids, as they can have severe adverse health affects. If you
are willing to go to your doc to ask for a prescription - I suggest
you go to your doc and ask for help. As for a nutritionist,
dietician. If you want to spend money on losing weight - then the
Dietician/Nutritionist way is the best way.

[BabyJane Hudson]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:19:21 GMT, (Jayjay) wrote:


>Calories in vs. calories out. Plain and simple.

>Bottom line - your eating habits are making you fat. You must make a
>permanent change.

Above are two of the most profound statements you will ever read. And
it's so true. Nothing will ever work if we don't change our eating
habits.

BabyJane Hudson

[Mike Turco]

"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:25:57 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> > wrote:
> >
> >And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and
all
> >that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
> >Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than
that
> >low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce
back
> >bigger than before!)
>
> OK - sorry to be harsh here- but you obviously don't have the "tons of
> knowledge about calories, carbs, fats and all that crap..." If you
> did - you wouldn't be where you are today.

There is technical knowledge, common sense and wisdom. We all know that
common sense has been evenly distributed throughout the population because
everyone says they have it.

>
> If atkins worked for you before, there's no reason it won't work for
> you again. But, obviously if you've done this before and failed -
> then you didn't learn a damned thing.

Thank you! Actually, that means a lot.

>
> Calories in vs. calories out. Plain and simple.

Really? Then how did you get here? Are you a fat person who just figured
this out, or a skinny person here to "help" fat people?

> What happens is - you seem to be taking the "diet" approach - stay
> good enough for long enough to lose the weight - then go back to your
> old eating habits. You'll continue to be fat and yoyo until you
> realize that its your old eating habits that are making you fat. You
> have to get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones.

I don't know where you're coming from. You caught my attention from the
start, but you're losing me here.

You can apply your logic to quitting smoking. "You will continue to smoke
until you don't smoke any more cigarettes." But the fact is, things are not
so simple. It took me twelve years to quit smoking from the first time I put
on a patch. Now I've quit for good. This last time around, I had to take a
pretty hard look at myself and the situation, the reasons I was smoking, the
reasons I wanted to quit. I had to look ahead towards the difficult
situations I would face and how I would handle them. I did about six weeks
worth of research before I quit smoking. What made the difference, I think,
was mental preparation and mental preparedness. I believe my food addiction,
or eating problem, or metabolic challenge, or whatever you call it, is as
bad or worse than my addiction to cigarettes. I can win this battle, I know,
but not with "calories in vs. calories out" clichés.

Its easy to say, "Get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones."
What new habits? For example, I wake up about six times a night and hit the
goddamn fridge. What am I supposed to do at 4:30AM? What new habit do I
throw in there?

Mike

[Jayjay]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:00:06 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:


>
>I don't know where you're coming from. You caught my attention from the
>start, but you're losing me here.

Obviously, from your response - you are not ready to lose weight.
Sorry, this group is not about magic pills and quick fixes. Its also
not always about "oh, it'll be ok, the weight will come off" hugs and
love.

Get over yourself and your attitude and change your mindset. Then
maybe you will find the help you need in here.

>
>You can apply your logic to quitting smoking. "You will continue to smoke
>until you don't smoke any more cigarettes." But the fact is, things are not
>so simple. It took me twelve years to quit smoking from the first time I put
>on a patch. Now I've quit for good. This last time around, I had to take a
>pretty hard look at myself and the situation, the reasons I was smoking, the
>reasons I wanted to quit. I had to look ahead towards the difficult
>situations I would face and how I would handle them. I did about six weeks
>worth of research before I quit smoking. What made the difference, I think,
>was mental preparation and mental preparedness. I believe my food addiction,
>or eating problem, or metabolic challenge, or whatever you call it, is as
>bad or worse than my addiction to cigarettes. I can win this battle, I know,
>but not with "calories in vs. calories out" clichés.

Its not a cliche, buddy, its basic physics of the human body. Eat
more than your body needs - you gain weight. Eat less than your body
needs, you lose weight. Plain and simple.

>
>Its easy to say, "Get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones."
>What new habits? For example, I wake up about six times a night and hit the
>goddamn fridge. What am I supposed to do at 4:30AM? What new habit do I
>throw in there?

Gee, when I wake at 4:30am, I head to the gym for a workout. Exercise
it good. Not only that - the increased exercise really helps my
sleeping habits and I don't wake at night. It's a win/win situation.

[Mike Turco]

"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:00:06 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I don't know where you're coming from. You caught my attention from the
> >start, but you're losing me here.
>
> Obviously, from your response - you are not ready to lose weight.
> Sorry, this group is not about magic pills and quick fixes. Its also
> not always about "oh, it'll be ok, the weight will come off" hugs and
> love.
>
> Get over yourself and your attitude and change your mindset. Then
> maybe you will find the help you need in here.

I ask, again, are you fat or skinny?

[jmk]

On 10/27/2003 12:00 PM, Mike Turco wrote:

> Its easy to say, "Get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones."
> What new habits? For example, I wake up about six times a night and hit the
> goddamn fridge. What am I supposed to do at 4:30AM? What new habit do I
> throw in there?

Not go to the fridge or go to the fridge and drink water. Post on a
newsgroup. Do you e-mail. Read a book.


--
jmk in NC

[Miss Jaime]

>On 10/27/2003 12:00 PM, Mike Turco wrote:
>
>> Its easy to say, "Get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones."
>> What new habits? For example, I wake up about six times a night and hit the
>> goddamn fridge. What am I supposed to do at 4:30AM? What new habit do I
>> throw in there?

Got a girlfriend? I can think of at least *one* you could throw in
there. ;-)

When I wake up that early I often come downstairs have a hot cup of
tea and read the newsgroups, post a bit, then make lunches for my 2
boys and make breakfast early before I have to call the boys up at
7:30 am and even start a load of laundry if there are any dirty
clothes lying about.

[Jayjay]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:43:37 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:

>
>"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:00:06 -0800, "Mike Turco"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >I don't know where you're coming from. You caught my attention from the
>> >start, but you're losing me here.
>>
>> Obviously, from your response - you are not ready to lose weight.
>> Sorry, this group is not about magic pills and quick fixes. Its also
>> not always about "oh, it'll be ok, the weight will come off" hugs and
>> love.
>>
>> Get over yourself and your attitude and change your mindset. Then
>> maybe you will find the help you need in here.
>
>I ask, again, are you fat or skinny?

What difference does it make?

Whether I'm fat or skinny shouldn't make a difference at all.

My history is - I didn't have a weight problem until I got pregnant in
my early 20's. After the birth of my son I didn't lose the pregnancy
weight. Then 4 yrs later I had the "divorce diet". Lots of stress,
lack of appetite, lost 30lbs in a matter of a couple months. I was
skinny, but no muscle tone. So, I was still fat/flabby. When life
settled down again, I regained the weight. I then came here and
over the years of participating in the group I've gained a ton of
knowledge and one of the key things that I've learned is - changing a
pattern of weight gain requires changing you eating habits. THe old
habits made me fat, changing them to better habits and always keeping
in mind that returning to those old habits will only make me fat
again.

I am now "skinny" in certain terms. I fit well within the healthy
standard guidelines for height/weight and bodyfat. I now continue
here in this group to 1. maintain my weight, and 2. Help others.

My goals now are fitness and muscle building to combat age.

[Brad Sheppard]

Mike,

The "new" low carb diet is called the South Beach diet. Low carbs may
help your diabetes. No calorie counting - may be worth a try for you.
Want to skip the book? Just cut out white bread, white potatoes,
refined grains, and added sugars. Keep your carb percentage
relativily low. Eat healthy carbs - fruites, veggies, whole grains,
healthy fats - olive oil, nuts, oily fish, healthy proteins - beans,
fish, lean meats. Follow this website, but keep carbs low:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html

"Mike Turco" > wrote in message news:<Kw5nb.94443$La.81762@fed1read02>...
> Anybody remember The Munsters? There was the episode where Herman went to
> the doctor and broke the doctor's scale? When asked about his weight, Herman
> would say he weighed "three times", because the scale went 'round three
> times when he got on it.
>
> I feel like that.
>
> And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and all
> that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
> Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than that
> low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce back
> bigger than before!)
>
> Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can loose
> weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
> something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a program.
> Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
> doctor for a prescription.
>
> (Do people still do the ECA thing? Does that work well?)
>
> By the weigh, I gotta do something. I have diabetes and fat deposits in my
> liver, and I need to lose about a hundred pounds to once again be slim and
> healthy.
>
> Mike

[Perple Glow]

Geez, that was a little rough. Being overweight is caused by Mental,
Physical and Emotional reasons. Knowing that something needs to be fixed
and knowing how to fix it is one thing. However, being emotionally ready is
another. I bet most of the posters in here know alot about what they are
supposed to do. I know I've studied it for years myself. However, 25% of
the population is now obese. Knowledge may be power, but it doesn't create
wisdom....

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:25:57 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> > wrote:
> >
> >And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and
all
> >that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
> >Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than
that
> >low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce
back
> >bigger than before!)
>
> OK - sorry to be harsh here- but you obviously don't have the "tons of
> knowledge about calories, carbs, fats and all that crap..." If you
> did - you wouldn't be where you are today.
>
> If atkins worked for you before, there's no reason it won't work for
> you again. But, obviously if you've done this before and failed -
> then you didn't learn a damned thing.
>
> Calories in vs. calories out. Plain and simple.
>
> What happens is - you seem to be taking the "diet" approach - stay
> good enough for long enough to lose the weight - then go back to your
> old eating habits. You'll continue to be fat and yoyo until you
> realize that its your old eating habits that are making you fat. You
> have to get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones.
>
> You cannot eat the volume, quantity and quality of food you have been
> eating. You must change those values.
>
> Bottom line - your eating habits are making you fat. You must make a
> permanent change.
>
> >
> >Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can
loose
> >weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
> >something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a program.
> >Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
> >doctor for a prescription.
>
> There is no magic pill, and certainly if you are having health
> problems because of your weight - it is not recommended to take any
> dietary aids, as they can have severe adverse health affects. If you
> are willing to go to your doc to ask for a prescription - I suggest
> you go to your doc and ask for help. As for a nutritionist,
> dietician. If you want to spend money on losing weight - then the
> Dietician/Nutritionist way is the best way.

[Perple Glow]

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"Mike Turco" > wrote in message
news:_bcnb.94475$La.70832@fed1read02...

> What new habits? For example, I wake up about six times a night and hit
the
> goddamn fridge. What am I supposed to do at 4:30AM? What new habit do I
> throw in there?
>
> Mike

1) Go watch tv
2) Play on computer
3) Masterbate
4) Read a magazine, something light.... not a book that will draw you in
and make you want to read the whole thing.
5) Walk during the day.... exercise will help you relax and sleep better
6) Drink a big cold glass of water
7) Masterbate (lol)

[Perple Glow]

I think that Jayjay just stated the obvious in an abrupt manner.....

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"Ignoramus4135" > wrote in message
...
> In article <aVenb.43964$HS4.183379@attbi_s01>, Perple Glow wrote:
> > Geez, that was a little rough. Being overweight is caused by Mental,
> > Physical and Emotional reasons. Knowing that something needs to be
fixed
> > and knowing how to fix it is one thing. However, being emotionally
ready is
> > another. I bet most of the posters in here know alot about what they
are
> > supposed to do. I know I've studied it for years myself. However, 25%
of
> > the population is now obese. Knowledge may be power, but it doesn't
create
> > wisdom....
>
> I think that jayjay's point is that as long as you continue to put too
> much food in your mouth, you cannot lose weight. Whatever the
> reason. So for a person who is overweight, what they should start
> doing is eat less and exercise more.
>
> 25% are obese because they eat too much.
>
> Now if you said that some people eat too much because of various
> psychological problems, I would agree with that. But the suggestion to
> them is still the same, eat less, exercise more. Excuses and
> rationalizations have not made anyone slim.
>
> i
> 223/176/180
>
> >> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:25:57 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat
and
> > all
> >> >that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm
an
> >> >Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better
than
> > that
> >> >low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce
> > back
> >> >bigger than before!)
> >>
> >> OK - sorry to be harsh here- but you obviously don't have the "tons of
> >> knowledge about calories, carbs, fats and all that crap..." If you
> >> did - you wouldn't be where you are today.
> >>
> >> If atkins worked for you before, there's no reason it won't work for
> >> you again. But, obviously if you've done this before and failed -
> >> then you didn't learn a damned thing.
> >>
> >> Calories in vs. calories out. Plain and simple.
> >>
> >> What happens is - you seem to be taking the "diet" approach - stay
> >> good enough for long enough to lose the weight - then go back to your
> >> old eating habits. You'll continue to be fat and yoyo until you
> >> realize that its your old eating habits that are making you fat. You
> >> have to get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones.
> >>
> >> You cannot eat the volume, quantity and quality of food you have been
> >> eating. You must change those values.
> >>
> >> Bottom line - your eating habits are making you fat. You must make a
> >> permanent change.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can
> > loose
> >> >weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
> >> >something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a
program.
> >> >Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask
my
> >> >doctor for a prescription.
> >>
> >> There is no magic pill, and certainly if you are having health
> >> problems because of your weight - it is not recommended to take any
> >> dietary aids, as they can have severe adverse health affects. If you
> >> are willing to go to your doc to ask for a prescription - I suggest
> >> you go to your doc and ask for help. As for a nutritionist,
> >> dietician. If you want to spend money on losing weight - then the
> >> Dietician/Nutritionist way is the best way.
> >
> >

[cplus]

"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:25:57 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> > wrote:
> >
> >And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and
all
> >that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
> >Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than
that
> >low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce
back
> >bigger than before!)
>
> OK - sorry to be harsh here- but you obviously don't have the "tons of
> knowledge about calories, carbs, fats and all that crap..." If you
> did - you wouldn't be where you are today.

Normally I don't disagree with you jj so perhaps you just weren't clear this
time but as one who knows, just because you have knowledge of food does not
mean you'll be skinny. It's all a matter of putting that knowledge into
practice. I do agree that if he does have all that knowledge, he should
know where to start though.

[Jayjay]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:25:33 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> wrote:

>I think that Jayjay just stated the obvious in an abrupt manner.....

Exactly. This group isn't about sugar coating anything!

The guy says that he's tried and succeeded at both low cal and
atkins/low carb. But his problem is that he stops his way of eating
at some point, and then goes back to old habits and regains the weight
- plus some.

Once you realize that following a life like that, doesn't work then
you've just won half the battle.

This is a wakeup call. Wake up and smell the coffee. Ya wanna lose
weight - then realizing where you are going wrong or failed in the
past will help.

[Beverly]

"Mike Turco" > wrote in message
news:Kw5nb.94443$La.81762@fed1read02...
> Anybody remember The Munsters? There was the episode where Herman went to
> the doctor and broke the doctor's scale? When asked about his weight,
Herman
> would say he weighed "three times", because the scale went 'round three
> times when he got on it.
>
> I feel like that.
>
> And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and
all
> that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
> Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than
that
> low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce
back
> bigger than before!)
>
> Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can
loose
> weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
> something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a program.
> Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
> doctor for a prescription.
>
> (Do people still do the ECA thing? Does that work well?)
>
> By the weigh, I gotta do something. I have diabetes and fat deposits in my
> liver, and I need to lose about a hundred pounds to once again be slim and
> healthy.
>
> Mike
>
Welcome to the group, Mike.

Try not to think of this as a diet but a new way of eating and exercising.
It takes a lifetime commitment to healthy eating and exercise to lose and
maintain the weight loss. It might be easier to tackle a few changes at a
time. Trying to change everything at once can be very overwhelming and
causes many of us to quit. Losing and gaining a significant amount of
weight time and time again isn't good.

Congrats on quitting smoking. I personally know how tough this can be as I
quit in the mid 90's. It was one of the major reasons for my weight gain.

Most in the group don't follow a specified diet such as Atkins, Weight
Watchers, etc. Instead we try for a healthy diet consisting of protein,
good carbs (whole grains, etc) and good fats. www.fitday.com is a great
place for tracking your food and getting some idea of the carb/protein/fat
ratio. It's free but you need to register.
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html is another great site for exercise
and diet information. It's geared toward women but there's excellent info
for everyone.

Take a look at your current diet and determine where you can cut the
calories - water instead of sodas, whole grain bread for white bread, cutout
junk foods, etc. Be sure to drink plenty of water and add some exercise to
your daily routine. Track your foods in fitday and see where your calories
are coming from. Stick around the newsgroup and you'll learn many other
ways to get into a healthy eating and exercise mode.

Beverly

[Mike Turco]

"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...

> >
> >I ask, again, are you fat or skinny?
>
> What difference does it make?
>
> Whether I'm fat or skinny shouldn't make a difference at all.

This is a support group. You're not here for support. You're here to stroke
your ego.

> My history is - I didn't have a weight problem until I got pregnant in
> my early 20's. After the birth of my son I didn't lose the pregnancy
> weight. Then 4 yrs later I had the "divorce diet". Lots of stress,
> lack of appetite, lost 30lbs in a matter of a couple months. I was
> skinny, but no muscle tone. So, I was still fat/flabby.

So you lost thirty pounds some years ago.

"What's that, Ms J? You drank a six pack of beer one time, and now you want
to run our AA meetings?"

> When life
> settled down again, I regained the weight. I then came here and
> over the years of participating in the group I've gained a ton of
> knowledge and one of the key things that I've learned is - changing a
> pattern of weight gain requires changing you eating habits.

You didn't go to school. Its not like you're a dietician. Then you caught on
to groupthink and now you're a self proclaimed expert.

> THe old
> habits made me fat, changing them to better habits and always keeping
> in mind that returning to those old habits will only make me fat
> again.
>
> I am now "skinny" in certain terms. I fit well within the healthy
> standard guidelines for height/weight and bodyfat. I now continue
> here in this group to 1. maintain my weight, and 2. Help others.


Sorry, hun, but anybody can read a newsgroup for two years and proclaim
themselves expert. I really don't appreciate the way you chastised me, and
now I see who you are.

Where the things you said "correct". Gee, I don't know. Who you are screams
so loudly I can hardly hear what you are saying.

>
> My goals now are fitness and muscle building to combat age.

Your goals are to have others acknowledge you, and its easy to gain
recognition, no? You simply repeat what others say.

Anyway, no use in fighting here. I really don't appreciate the way you
lashed out at me, you were out of line. If you were fat like me, or like the
others in this group who are here for legitimate reasons, I would have
looked at your post in a whole different way.

So, then, I'm here to lose weight, not to argue with or be judged by skinny
people. Thanks anyway.

Mike

[Steve Knight]

for me exercise is the most important thing. I am doing 20 miles a day on my
bike and it helps more then anything else. plus it saves me money in
transportation.
I eat somewhat low carb. no breads and little sugar most of the time. fruit for
my energy on my rides and some beans now and again.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[Miss Jaime]

On 27 Oct 2003 19:20:39 GMT, Ignoramus4135
> wrote:


>I also was an evening/night time eater. I would wake up, feel hungry
>and go to the fridge and eat some POS food.

I used to do this as well at one time. Now I only drink water or hot
tea at night...sometimes both.




>So, my advice to you, if you wake up hungry at 4:30 am, drink water,
>however much you want, but do NOT eat anything.


Supposing he ate at like 6 pm the night before
and it truly was hunger pains?

Could he just make himself an early breakfast and have that?

Myself I try not to go over 6 hours without eating, except for
sleeping. If it has been more then 6 hours between meals, say
starting from dinner the previous night, then I will eat my next meal
which would be breakfast.

[Crafting Mom]

Perple Glow > wrote:
>I think that Jayjay just stated the obvious in an abrupt manner.....

I agree.
CM
--
Drop everything and do it my way :)

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:19:21 GMT, (Jayjay) wrote:

>OK - sorry to be harsh here- but you obviously don't have the "tons of
>knowledge about calories, carbs, fats and all that crap..." If you
>did - you wouldn't be where you are today.

Knowledge does not necessarily translate into positive action on that
knowledge. Hell, of all people J squared, you should know this . Look
at your own history, you hypocrite.

>If atkins worked for you before, there's no reason it won't work for
>you again. But, obviously if you've done this before and failed -
>then you didn't learn a damned thing.

Learned that Atkins is a failing program. Mike is one of the 99 out of
100.



http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:24:38 GMT, (Jayjay) wrote:

>Obviously, from your response - you are not ready to lose weight.

You sure can tell a whole hell of a lot from a simple response. Get
off the guys back. Is it PMS time for you.....again?

>Sorry, this group is not about magic pills and quick fixes. Its also
>not always about "oh, it'll be ok, the weight will come off" hugs and
>love.

When you act that way it's ok. When I give tuff love, I'm <fill in
vulgarity>.

You're a hypocrite is the worst order.

>Get over yourself and your attitude and change your mindset.

See above.


>>You can apply your logic to quitting smoking. "You will continue to smoke
>>until you don't smoke any more cigarettes." But the fact is, things are not
>>so simple. It took me twelve years to quit smoking from the first time I put
>>on a patch. Now I've quit for good.

Yeah, well, if I had 94 fingers, I could count the number of things
you have proclaimed to have "quit" on this ng.

>Its not a cliche, buddy, its basic physics of the human body.

Girlie, that ain't physics.




http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:06:42 GMT, (Jayjay) wrote:

>>I ask, again, are you fat or skinny?
>
>What difference does it make?

lol lol lol lol

Fat as a pumpkin.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:06:42 GMT, (Jayjay) wrote:

>I am now "skinny" in certain terms.

Compared to a pachyderm, yes you are.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:32:25 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:

>This is a support group. You're not here for support. You're here to stroke
>your ego, jayajy.

Pretty much. Stick around, Her, Determined and Marsden can make you
gag.

Ping: Itsy Bitsy !!!


>"What's that, Ms J? You drank a six pack of beer one time, and now you want
>to run our AA meetings?"

You got it. J squared put the "b" back in bitch.

>You didn't go to school. Its not like you're a dietician. Then you caught on
>to groupthink and now you're a self proclaimed expert, jayjay.

Trust me, few think she is expert at anything other than bull****.

>Your goals are to have others acknowledge you, and its easy to gain
>recognition, no? You simply repeat what others say, jayjay.

Yes, it's a clubby-club. She wants to be Queen.



http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Gloria]

Mike , please keep close to here:>)
I've been here foever and a day! We are compulsive eaters here (most of
us) and it is a hard row . I'm up & down but BETTER all the time. I need
to keep posting and reading and it truely is knowledge! The most
important part to me has been Getting My Head On Straight ! It's a mind
thing for me. I didn't beginto really succeed until I started thinking
thin! I pay more attention to how I'm dressing now. I mean I'm wearing
my tops a little lower and a little more fittted. I ws hiding myself
behind my clothing. Now I'm not ashamed of my body so I don't do that
anymore. Many people are asking me what is differant for me? I act
younger and a little sexy too. I'mnot making an a__ of myslf I'm just
enjoing my newer looking body. I love picking out new clothes. Several
years ago I was a size 24womans and now I'm 14&16 misses pants. Jeans
are 16 but dress -pant size is 14. I'm older but wiser and life is
better and better. Now I'm working at keeping the weight at a lower one
as it tends to creep up sometimes. I have about 15 lbs to lose but it is
harder with age.

You have made the first step and that's that hardest step of all. Keep
posting and I'll keep watching your progress. I think you WILL make it
as you have a real knowledge !

Warmly,
glo

[jmk]

On 10/27/2003 9:32 PM, Mike Turco wrote:
> "Jayjay" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>>I ask, again, are you fat or skinny?
>>
>>What difference does it make?
>>
>>Whether I'm fat or skinny shouldn't make a difference at all.
>
>
> This is a support group. You're not here for support. You're here to stroke
> your ego.

Excuse me? You think that *JayJay* isn't here for support?

--
jmk in NC

[jmk]

On 10/27/2003 7:37 PM, Beverly wrote:

> Take a look at your current diet and determine where you can cut the
> calories - water instead of sodas, whole grain bread for white bread, cutout
> junk foods, etc. Be sure to drink plenty of water and add some exercise to
> your daily routine. Track your foods in fitday and see where your calories
> are coming from. Stick around the newsgroup and you'll learn many other
> ways to get into a healthy eating and exercise mode.

Beverly makes a good point here about logging foods. There are lots of
tools for doing this and it can be very helpful and interesting. For
example, I started out logging my foods as a way to track calories and I
found that my diet was deficient in iron. Now I take a multivitamin to
help with that. I also keep better track of my calcium intake now that
I did before.

--
jmk in NC

[Jack Cassidy]

"Mike Turco" > wrote in message
news:Kw5nb.94443$La.81762@fed1read02...
> Anybody remember The Munsters? There was the episode where Herman went to
> the doctor and broke the doctor's scale? When asked about his weight,
Herman
> would say he weighed "three times", because the scale went 'round three
> times when he got on it.
>
> I feel like that.
>
> And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and
all
> that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
> Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than
that
> low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce
back
> bigger than before!)
>
> Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can
loose
> weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
> something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a program.
> Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
> doctor for a prescription.
>
> (Do people still do the ECA thing? Does that work well?)
>
> By the weigh, I gotta do something. I have diabetes and fat deposits in my
> liver, and I need to lose about a hundred pounds to once again be slim and
> healthy.
>
> Mike

Mike,
If you lost weight on Atkins and then dropped out, why not try it again an
modify it enough that you can stay with it? Let me tell you of my
experience, I was hospitalized in February of 2002 with my second heart
attack, when they tried to weigh me the scale only went to 400lbs and that
is just about what I weighed, I was diabetic (controlled with pills, not
insulin) my blood pressure was in the stratosphere, My cholesterol was about
400 and I had congestive heart failure.
After being sent home I decided to try a low carb diet, read the Atkins book
and thought, This will never work, but what the hell, even if it kills me it
is better than doing nothing.
Lets jump ahead to today, I have lost 130lbs, (at least) My BP is normal for
the first time in 30 years, my total Cholesterol in 137, The Diabetes is
GONE! My fasting blood sugar hasn't been over 105 in a year and a half. I
have lost 16 inches from my waist and generally feel pretty good. I still
have congestive heart failure, but it is treatable and my long term
prognosis has improved dramatically.
I don't want to sound like I am preaching, I just want to tell you what
worked for me. What it came down to was change my way of living or die.
I believe it is much more difficult to control diet than to quit smoking,
with smoking you quit and it is over, you can't just stop eating forever.
(Smoker for 25 years, smoke free for the last 22.)
BTW, since I started a lc diet I no longer wake up hungry in the middle of
the night.
Good luck,
Jack Cassidy
57 year old male 6'2"
400/270/220

[Perple Glow]

Method of assistance and goal are not the same in her case :)

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"jmk" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> On 10/27/2003 9:32 PM, Mike Turco wrote:
> > "Jayjay" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> >>>I ask, again, are you fat or skinny?
> >>
> >>What difference does it make?
> >>
> >>Whether I'm fat or skinny shouldn't make a difference at all.
> >
> >
> > This is a support group. You're not here for support. You're here to
stroke
> > your ego.
>
> Excuse me? You think that *JayJay* isn't here for support?
>
> --
> jmk in NC
>

[Perple Glow]

www.atkinscenter.com
www.atkinsdiet.com

for food ideas....

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"Ignoramus16911" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Jack Cassidy
wrote:
> > If you lost weight on Atkins and then dropped out, why not try it again
an
> > modify it enough that you can stay with it? Let me tell you of my
> > experience, I was hospitalized in February of 2002 with my second heart
> > attack, when they tried to weigh me the scale only went to 400lbs and
that
> > is just about what I weighed, I was diabetic (controlled with pills, not
> > insulin) my blood pressure was in the stratosphere, My cholesterol was
about
> > 400 and I had congestive heart failure.
> > After being sent home I decided to try a low carb diet, read the Atkins
book
> > and thought, This will never work, but what the hell, even if it kills
me it
> > is better than doing nothing.
> > Lets jump ahead to today, I have lost 130lbs, (at least) My BP is normal
for
> > the first time in 30 years, my total Cholesterol in 137, The Diabetes is
> > GONE! My fasting blood sugar hasn't been over 105 in a year and a half.
I
> > have lost 16 inches from my waist and generally feel pretty good. I
still
> > have congestive heart failure, but it is treatable and my long term
> > prognosis has improved dramatically.
> > I don't want to sound like I am preaching, I just want to tell you what
> > worked for me. What it came down to was change my way of living or die.
> > I believe it is much more difficult to control diet than to quit
smoking,
> > with smoking you quit and it is over, you can't just stop eating
forever.
> > (Smoker for 25 years, smoke free for the last 22.)
> > BTW, since I started a lc diet I no longer wake up hungry in the middle
of
> > the night.
> > Good luck,
> > Jack Cassidy
> > 57 year old male 6'2"
> > 400/270/220
> >
> >
>
> Wow, amazing stuff. So, what is it that you eat on atkins? (typical
> day). Do you exercise in any way?
>
> i
> 223/175/180

[Perple Glow]

Wow, that is very impressive!

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"Jack Cassidy" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Mike Turco" > wrote in message
> news:Kw5nb.94443$La.81762@fed1read02...
> > Anybody remember The Munsters? There was the episode where Herman went
to
> > the doctor and broke the doctor's scale? When asked about his weight,
> Herman
> > would say he weighed "three times", because the scale went 'round three
> > times when he got on it.
> >
> > I feel like that.
> >
> > And even worse, I have a ton of knowledge about calories, carbs, fat and
> all
> > that crap yet I have no idea where to start. For what its worth, I'm an
> > Atkins drop-out. (I did well on that diet for a while, even better than
> that
> > low cal diet I did a few years ago. Every time I bounce back, I bounce
> back
> > bigger than before!)
> >
> > Anyway, I quit smoking almost six months ago. If I can do that, I can
> loose
> > weight too, damn it! Somebody please recommend a book or a web page or
> > something, please. I seem to do well at things when I get onto a
program.
> > Also, if there are any drugs out there I can take, I can at least ask my
> > doctor for a prescription.
> >
> > (Do people still do the ECA thing? Does that work well?)
> >
> > By the weigh, I gotta do something. I have diabetes and fat deposits in
my
> > liver, and I need to lose about a hundred pounds to once again be slim
and
> > healthy.
> >
> > Mike
>
> Mike,
> If you lost weight on Atkins and then dropped out, why not try it again an
> modify it enough that you can stay with it? Let me tell you of my
> experience, I was hospitalized in February of 2002 with my second heart
> attack, when they tried to weigh me the scale only went to 400lbs and that
> is just about what I weighed, I was diabetic (controlled with pills, not
> insulin) my blood pressure was in the stratosphere, My cholesterol was
about
> 400 and I had congestive heart failure.
> After being sent home I decided to try a low carb diet, read the Atkins
book
> and thought, This will never work, but what the hell, even if it kills me
it
> is better than doing nothing.
> Lets jump ahead to today, I have lost 130lbs, (at least) My BP is normal
for
> the first time in 30 years, my total Cholesterol in 137, The Diabetes is
> GONE! My fasting blood sugar hasn't been over 105 in a year and a half. I
> have lost 16 inches from my waist and generally feel pretty good. I still
> have congestive heart failure, but it is treatable and my long term
> prognosis has improved dramatically.
> I don't want to sound like I am preaching, I just want to tell you what
> worked for me. What it came down to was change my way of living or die.
> I believe it is much more difficult to control diet than to quit smoking,
> with smoking you quit and it is over, you can't just stop eating forever.
> (Smoker for 25 years, smoke free for the last 22.)
> BTW, since I started a lc diet I no longer wake up hungry in the middle
of
> the night.
> Good luck,
> Jack Cassidy
> 57 year old male 6'2"
> 400/270/220
>
>

[Jayjay]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:50:24 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> wrote:

>Method of assistance and goal are not the same in her case :)

Care to clarify that remark?

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:13 GMT, (Jayjay) wrote:

>>Method of assistance and goal are not the same in her case :)
>
>Care to clarify that remark?

Yeah, you too often abuse this forum as an email service for you and
your buddies.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Jack Cassidy]

"Ignoramus16911" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Jack Cassidy
wrote:
> > If you lost weight on Atkins and then dropped out, why not try it again
an
> > modify it enough that you can stay with it? Let me tell you of my
> > experience, I was hospitalized in February of 2002 with my second heart
> > attack, when they tried to weigh me the scale only went to 400lbs and
that
> > is just about what I weighed, I was diabetic (controlled with pills, not
> > insulin) my blood pressure was in the stratosphere, My cholesterol was
about
> > 400 and I had congestive heart failure.
> > After being sent home I decided to try a low carb diet, read the Atkins
book
> > and thought, This will never work, but what the hell, even if it kills
me it
> > is better than doing nothing.
> > Lets jump ahead to today, I have lost 130lbs, (at least) My BP is normal
for
> > the first time in 30 years, my total Cholesterol in 137, The Diabetes is
> > GONE! My fasting blood sugar hasn't been over 105 in a year and a half.
I
> > have lost 16 inches from my waist and generally feel pretty good. I
still
> > have congestive heart failure, but it is treatable and my long term
> > prognosis has improved dramatically.
> > I don't want to sound like I am preaching, I just want to tell you what
> > worked for me. What it came down to was change my way of living or die.
> > I believe it is much more difficult to control diet than to quit
smoking,
> > with smoking you quit and it is over, you can't just stop eating
forever.
> > (Smoker for 25 years, smoke free for the last 22.)
> > BTW, since I started a lc diet I no longer wake up hungry in the middle
of
> > the night.
> > Good luck,
> > Jack Cassidy
> > 57 year old male 6'2"
> > 400/270/220
>
> Wow, amazing stuff. So, what is it that you eat on atkins? (typical
> day). Do you exercise in any way?
>
> i
> 223/175/180

If you mean do I go to a gym for exercise, no not yet, but I may have to
eventually as my weight gets closer to what I would like it be. My
lifestyle is more active than it was simply because the weight loss has mad
it possible to do thing that I couldn't do before, used to be when I would
go to the store I would have to ride in one of those motorized carts because
I could only walk about 50' with stopping to rest, now I walk through the
store under my own power.
My typical low carb diet goes as follows:
Breakfast: Three egg omelet with meat of some kind and shredded cheese and
hot salsa, with coffee with heavy cream and Splenda.
Lunch: Tuna salad or chicken salad or some hot wings from Wal-Mart. I make
the chicken or tuna salad myself as the ready made ones in the Deli usually
have some kind of filler in them that has hidden carbs.
Dinner: Steak or Chicken or Fish, (a lot of times cooked on the grill) with
salad with Ranch dressing and either string beans or cauliflower or
broccoli. with Iced tea with Splenda.
If I am hungry in between I eat some pepperoni an cheese or some leftover
sausage or whatever kind of meat that is in the refrigerator.
The key for me is if hungry eat, just not the wrong things.
I do not eat anything that has sugar or flour in it. I also don't eat any of
the commercial *low carb* treats. I do take a multi vitamin without iron.
The only down side that I have experienced was at first I was not eating
enough fiber to keep the plumbing from getting stopped up. Thankfully I
haven't had that problem in a while.
The problem I had with other diets is I was always hungry, I would obsess
about my next meal, and by the time it was mealtime I would be famished and
then over eat. I think that because the LC diet is also high fat I feel
satisfied longer an tend to feel full sooner. I haven't had to count
calories yet, but probably will have to eventually If I want to continue
losing weight.
I started this as an experiment, quite frankly, I didn't think it would
work, I was wrong, I just wish I would have done it 25 years ago before my
health got so screwed up.
Jack Cassidy

[AL DiSanto]

>
> Really? Then how did you get here? Are you a fat person who just figured
> this out, or a skinny person here to "help" fat people?
>
what's wrong with that

> > What happens is - you seem to be taking the "diet" approach - stay
> > good enough for long enough to lose the weight - then go back to your
> > old eating habits. You'll continue to be fat and yoyo until you
> > realize that its your old eating habits that are making you fat. You
> > have to get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones.
>
> I don't know where you're coming from. You caught my attention from the
> start, but you're losing me here.
>
> You can apply your logic to quitting smoking. "You will continue to smoke
> until you don't smoke any more cigarettes." But the fact is, things are not
> so simple. It took me twelve years to quit smoking from the first time I put
> on a patch. Now I've quit for good. This last time around, I had to take a
> pretty hard look at myself and the situation, the reasons I was smoking, the
> reasons I wanted to quit. I had to look ahead towards the difficult
> situations I would face and how I would handle them. I did about six weeks
> worth of research before I quit smoking. What made the difference, I think,
> was mental preparation and mental preparedness. I believe my food addiction,
> or eating problem, or metabolic challenge, or whatever you call it, is as
> bad or worse than my addiction to cigarettes. I can win this battle, I know,
> but not with "calories in vs. calories out" clichés.
>
Honestly, it's called willpower. If you choose a diet, whether it's
Atkins, South Beach, Subway, 2 Lb, or just calorie counting, as long
as you learn about it and stick with it, it will work. Maybe the same
issues that made you smoke as an escape have made you turn to food for
an escape. How much research did you do in to dieting? Your right,
dieting is not so simple, if quitting smoking took 6 weeks of
research, shouldn't dieting take more

> Its easy to say, "Get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones."
> What new habits? For example, I wake up about six times a night and hit the
> goddamn fridge. What am I supposed to do at 4:30AM? What new habit do I
> throw in there?

knitting? I don't know: you probably can't eat and knit efficiently
at the same time. What do you like to do other than eat? Maybe all
you need is a good "kick in the butt". Maybe something like Dr.
Phil's book would help you out: it may say something that just clicks
with you and gives you the frame of mind you need to lose weight

AL

[Miss Jaime]

On 28 Oct 2003 10:10:46 -0800, (AL DiSanto)
wrote:



>knitting? I don't know: you probably can't eat and knit efficiently
>at the same time.

As a knitter I can answer this.

No you cannot knit and eat at the same time.
Same goes for crocheting btw.

I make a *lot* of hats. :-)

[Crafting Mom]

Miss Jaime > wrote:
>
>As a knitter I can answer this.
>
>No you cannot knit and eat at the same time.
>Same goes for crocheting btw.
>
>I make a *lot* of hats. :-)

I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
sinfully easy making sock heels really is.

Still trying to polish off a couple of sweaters, though.

CM
--
Drop everything and do it my way :)

[Perple Glow]

Sure... you use "tough" love... Some people work well with that. Some
people with fragile egos and emotional problems don't. You are too black
and white.

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:50:24 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> > wrote:
>
> >Method of assistance and goal are not the same in her case :)
>
> Care to clarify that remark?

[Jayjay]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:49:22 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> wrote:

>Sure... you use "tough" love... Some people work well with that. Some
>people with fragile egos and emotional problems don't. You are too black
>and white.

Actually, to clarify - I don't always use tough love. And certainly,
I do not treat it as black and white unless that is how the poster
expresses his views.

This guy wants a magic solution, instead of looking to resolve his
problems by fixing what is wrong with him.

[Miss Jaime]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:36:21 GMT, Crafting Mom
> wrote:


>I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
>sinfully easy making sock heels really is.

I have never quite figured out how to get the hang of doing socks on
all those double pointed needles but then I am just a beginner and
only know 4 stiches.....cast on, knit, purl and cast off.


>Still trying to polish off a couple of sweaters, though.

I haven't even attempted that yet.

Just hats...all the time. :-)

[Beverly]

"Miss Jaime" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:36:21 GMT, Crafting Mom
> > wrote:
>
>
> >I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
> >sinfully easy making sock heels really is.
>
> I have never quite figured out how to get the hang of doing socks on
> all those double pointed needles but then I am just a beginner and
> only know 4 stiches.....cast on, knit, purl and cast off.
>
>
> >Still trying to polish off a couple of sweaters, though.
>
> I haven't even attempted that yet.
>
> Just hats...all the time. :-)

I never mastered knitting. I can crochet and used to do quite a bit of
sewing but those knitting needles never cooperated <g> Maybe after I
retire I'll take some classes for knitting.
>

[Crafting Mom]

Miss Jaime > wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:36:21 GMT, Crafting Mom
> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
>>sinfully easy making sock heels really is.
>
>I have never quite figured out how to get the hang of doing socks on
>all those double pointed needles but then I am just a beginner and
>only know 4 stiches.....cast on, knit, purl and cast off.

I know, it does seem pretty daunting doesn't it? I avoided socks for
*years* for that purpose. However, it's pretty easy once you get the
hang of it. All the other needles are basically place holders for the
other stitches in the round, and help divide the stitches accordingly so
you will know what to knit, and where.

>
>
>>Still trying to polish off a couple of sweaters, though.
>
>I haven't even attempted that yet.

It's a bit fun, the shaping is a bit hard, but it eventually works out.
My favorite thing to knit is a scarf. It's my way of testing gauge of a
pattern without wasting a whole swatch worth of yarn. plus, it's just a
straight item.

>
>Just hats...all the time. :-)

You know what's funny? I've never knitted a hat, ever. I've crocheted
a hat as part of a baby layette for someone's baby shower, but never
made a knitted one for my children or hubby/self.

Cheers
CM


--
Drop everything and do it my way :)

[Mike Turco]

"AL DiSanto" > wrote in message
m...
> >
> > Really? Then how did you get here? Are you a fat person who just figured
> > this out, or a skinny person here to "help" fat people?
> >
> what's wrong with that

AL, I posted my first timid post to this group to kind of introduce myself
and state why I'm here, and that skinny chick lashed out at me. As far as
who is fat and who is skinny, I really don't care. I don't take no **** from
skinny people about my weight. That's part of who I am.

Thanks,

Mike

[Patricia Heil]

Yeah, you need to know how to decrease to do socks but that's
not hard. I have a pattern that I've pretty much memorized
after about 8 pairs. You're right, it takes a while to
get the hang of handling four needles. But it took me less time
than tatting, which I STILL don't get after three tries. I'm going
to have to try needle tatting now that I've found a website to
get the books and needles.

Miss Jaime wrote:
>
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:36:21 GMT, Crafting Mom
> > wrote:
>
> >I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
> >sinfully easy making sock heels really is.
>
> I have never quite figured out how to get the hang of doing socks on
> all those double pointed needles but then I am just a beginner and
> only know 4 stiches.....cast on, knit, purl and cast off.
>
> >Still trying to polish off a couple of sweaters, though.
>
> I haven't even attempted that yet.
>
> Just hats...all the time. :-)

[Perple Glow]

How can you tell all of that from a couple of posts?? This forum is very
informative and helpful... however, it doesn't show people as 3
dimensional.... Lighten up please.

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:49:22 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> > wrote:
>
> >Sure... you use "tough" love... Some people work well with that. Some
> >people with fragile egos and emotional problems don't. You are too black
> >and white.
>
> Actually, to clarify - I don't always use tough love. And certainly,
> I do not treat it as black and white unless that is how the poster
> expresses his views.
>
> This guy wants a magic solution, instead of looking to resolve his
> problems by fixing what is wrong with him.
>
>

[Linda Carmon]

Not really OT, because if you're knitting, you can't be eating <G>...

If you're interested in socknitting, check out this link:

http://www.socknitters.com/directory.htm

Check out one of their cyberclasses and you'll be sailing along in no time.

Linda


On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:37:23 -0500, Patricia Heil > wrote:

>
>Yeah, you need to know how to decrease to do socks but that's
>not hard. I have a pattern that I've pretty much memorized
>after about 8 pairs. You're right, it takes a while to
>get the hang of handling four needles. But it took me less time
>than tatting, which I STILL don't get after three tries. I'm going
>to have to try needle tatting now that I've found a website to
>get the books and needles.
>
>Miss Jaime wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:36:21 GMT, Crafting Mom
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
>> >sinfully easy making sock heels really is.
>>
>> I have never quite figured out how to get the hang of doing socks on
>> all those double pointed needles but then I am just a beginner and
>> only know 4 stiches.....cast on, knit, purl and cast off.
>>
>> >Still trying to polish off a couple of sweaters, though.
>>
>> I haven't even attempted that yet.
>>
>> Just hats...all the time. :-)

[Jayjay]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:54:31 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> wrote:

>How can you tell all of that from a couple of posts?? This forum is very
>informative and helpful... however, it doesn't show people as 3
>dimensional.... Lighten up please.

As I'd suggest you'd do the same. If you read more of Mike's posts
to me, he has become down right rude and nasty. I've yet to go
there. All I did was state the obvious to him in his initial post
and obviously upset the guy because I didn't get all gushing with him
and give sympathy. His response was rudeness - and has lead to name
calling and rude behavior.

[Perple Glow]

You're right.... he was rude right back to you.... sorry I got involved!

--
Email me at:
perpleglow(AT)comcast.net


"Jayjay" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:54:31 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> > wrote:
>
> >How can you tell all of that from a couple of posts?? This forum is very
> >informative and helpful... however, it doesn't show people as 3
> >dimensional.... Lighten up please.
>
> As I'd suggest you'd do the same. If you read more of Mike's posts
> to me, he has become down right rude and nasty. I've yet to go
> there. All I did was state the obvious to him in his initial post
> and obviously upset the guy because I didn't get all gushing with him
> and give sympathy. His response was rudeness - and has lead to name
> calling and rude behavior.
>
>
>

[Patricia Heil]

Too bad it isn't like fidgeting -- you know, the one about
how fidgeters aren't fat. :-))

Linda Carmon wrote:
>
> Not really OT, because if you're knitting, you can't be eating <G>...
>
> If you're interested in socknitting, check out this link:
>
> http://www.socknitters.com/directory.htm
>
> Check out one of their cyberclasses and you'll be sailing along in no time.
>
> Linda
>
>
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:37:23 -0500, Patricia Heil > wrote:
>
> >
> >Yeah, you need to know how to decrease to do socks but that's
> >not hard. I have a pattern that I've pretty much memorized
> >after about 8 pairs. You're right, it takes a while to
> >get the hang of handling four needles. But it took me less time
> >than tatting, which I STILL don't get after three tries. I'm going
> >to have to try needle tatting now that I've found a website to
> >get the books and needles.
> >
> >Miss Jaime wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:36:21 GMT, Crafting Mom
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
> >> >sinfully easy making sock heels really is.
> >>
> >> I have never quite figured out how to get the hang of doing socks on
> >> all those double pointed needles but then I am just a beginner and
> >> only know 4 stiches.....cast on, knit, purl and cast off.
> >>
> >> >Still trying to polish off a couple of sweaters, though.
> >>
> >> I haven't even attempted that yet.
> >>
> >> Just hats...all the time. :-)

[Miss Jaime]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:15:44 -0500, "Beverly" >
wrote:


>I never mastered knitting. I can crochet and used to do quite a bit of
>sewing but those knitting needles never cooperated <g> Maybe after I
>retire I'll take some classes for knitting.

Ironically I find crocheting more difficult then knitting even though
I have learned the chain stitch.

[Barbara Hirsch]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:54:42 -0500, Miss Jaime >
wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:36:21 GMT, Crafting Mom
> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
>>sinfully easy making sock heels really is.

You'll probably never believe this, but I know how to knit, crochet,
needle point, and petit point.

I never have made socks, but I did make my husband an Irish sweater.
He said that no one had ever made him a sweater that fit, so I told
him I'd make him one. It had been 10 years since I'd knitted anything,
and he was in a bad mood, picked the hardest pattern he could find,
and then told me that he wanted a crew neck instead of the turtle neck
in the pattern. He's also got really long arms, so I had to lengthen
the sleeves from the pattern.

So for 6 weeks I spent all my free time knitting, and at the end he
had a perfectly fitting sweater. It's still his favorite 15 years
later.

I did a little more knitting after that; made myself a matching shawl
to his sweater for one thing, but haven't had any more time to knit
since I started the business.


Barbara Hirsch, Publisher
OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS
The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development
http://www.obesity-news.com/

[Wendy]

Jayjay wrote:
> This guy wants a magic solution, instead of looking to resolve his
> problems by fixing what is wrong with him.

But don't we all? I mean, honestly, doesn't nearly everyone arrive here
as a FFID flailing around trying to figure out how to implement the
cliche's?

Personally I'm having a bit of trouble with a person who lost weight from
375 down to "maintenance" at 330 giving out advice, but in the end we have
lots of different voices and I think the "most helpful" voice changes from
day to day and varying circumstances.

Wendy
244/190/170

[Crafting Mom]

Barbara Hirsch > wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:54:42 -0500, Miss Jaime >
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:36:21 GMT, Crafting Mom
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm into the sock thang this year, addicted after discovering how
>>>sinfully easy making sock heels really is.
>
>You'll probably never believe this, but I know how to knit, crochet,
>needle point, and petit point.

Easy to believe, because I know several different textile crafts, some
more than others, myself :)

>
>I never have made socks, but I did make my husband an Irish sweater.
>He said that no one had ever made him a sweater that fit, so I told
>him I'd make him one. It had been 10 years since I'd knitted anything,
>and he was in a bad mood, picked the hardest pattern he could find,
>and then told me that he wanted a crew neck instead of the turtle neck
>in the pattern. He's also got really long arms, so I had to lengthen
>the sleeves from the pattern.
>
>So for 6 weeks I spent all my free time knitting, and at the end he
>had a perfectly fitting sweater. It's still his favorite 15 years
>later.

That must be such a treasure!
cm

--
Drop everything and do it my way :)

[Wendy]

Mike Turco wrote:
> "Jayjay" > wrote in message
> This is a support group. You're not here for support. You're here to stroke
> your ego.

That's an interesting conclusion to come to. I'll bet there's a big dose
of projection in there. After all, it's YOUR ego on the line, not hers.
But I'd also guess we all have motivations that drive us. It doesn't have
any bearing on how good or useful her advice is, though.

Personally, I've lost 54 pounds so far (going from 244 to 190) and I know
what it took for *me* to do it. I had to change my mind about food and
exercise. I had to decide to exercise because it is the basic maintenance
required by owners of human bodies. I had to change my attitude about
food from something I did for the entertainment of having it in my mouth
to something I did to fuel my body the most efficiently.

I had to learn how to feed myself so that I was sated and had good energy
on a lower calorie level. In practice that meant I had to cut out most
saturated fats and refined carbs, but I didn't do that because they are
evil, but because they didn't add enough bang for the calorie buck. There
are better ways to fuel my body.

The driving force behind this is the quest to eat less and exercise
more. You won't succeed until you change you life to follow those
principles. If you aren't willing to do that then don't bother
pretending. Yoyo dieting is worse for you than if you had never lost the
weight at all.

> Where the things you said "correct". Gee, I don't know. Who you are screams
> so loudly I can hardly hear what you are saying.

There are plenty of weight loss support groups. Perhaps you should find
one where you'll be more comfortable. Perhaps then you'll get some value
out of what people are saying.

> So, then, I'm here to lose weight, not to argue with or be judged by skinny
> people. Thanks anyway.

I was at the gym today and was talking to a woman I know who works out
pretty often. I was wondering to myself why she had to come so often
because she's so slender. Then the light dawned and I realized that is
WHY she is so slender. Jayjay has lost about 25% of her current body
weight and kept it off for some time now. There are quite a few of us
here who have lost similar (or higher) percentages. You can wallow around
calling us names if you wish. We all have kill-files.

Wendy
244/190/170

[Miss Jaime]

On 28 Oct 2003 23:35:36 -0400, Wendy > wrote:


>Personally I'm having a bit of trouble with a person who lost weight from
>375 down to "maintenance" at 330 giving out advice

Then I will keep quiet and just do what I need to do for me.

BTW I didn't *know* you knew anything about Atkins or even low carbing
and I have read your response but am uncertain how to respond at the
moment if I respond to it at all. I did feel like you were just
criticizing me when I read what you said about an appliance I barely
use anymore.

The only thing I want to say about it is I have read 1 of the books
you mentioned(The South Beach diet) and will read the others also.

Am having a very rough night at the moment so instead of jumping into
the refined carbs (which is what I *want* to do) I'm just going to
have a glass of water and head to bed.

[Mike Turco]

"Mars at the Mu_n's Edge" > wrote in message

> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
> Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

That is a cool link and a great sig line.

[JayJay]

"Mike Turco" > wrote in message
news:B2Lnb.98369$La.9848@fed1read02...
>
> It seems to me that my posts have been misread. Please allow me to clear
the
> air. I appreciate and value the advice of people both skinny and fat.
There
> is extra special value in the advice that comes from people who were where
I
> am and have gone where I want to go. In other words, if you are skinny, I
> won't hold it against you :)
>
> If you (and many others) would read the original posts before passing
> judgement on me, I would really appreciate it.
>
> Jayiay came across to me as a person who (a) lost a relateively small
amount
> of weight a long time ago,

Losing 40lbs is a "relatively small amount of weight"... Sorry, I caught
myself before I had more to lose. But having lost it and being able to
keep it off is alot better than losing it to only regain it over and over
again.

(b) who has not succeeded at her other stated goals,

Please explain how I have not succeeded in my other goals. I recently
took up running (12 weeks ago) and went from a 11:29 min mile down to an
8:40min mile in 12 week's time.

My goals are fitness, health and combating age. They will be ever
evolving. Another goal is not regaining the fat, but retaining and gaining
muscle, that is also ever evolving. I'm always changing up my routine,
setting mini goals for myself and cycling between muscle gain and fat loss.

(c) has a holier than thou attittude, and

You don't know me, and if you did - you'd realize your statement is WRONG.

(d) passed off a negative judgement and insulted me in response to my first
post.

So I made a few honest but harsh statements - Get over it, bud.... I'm not
gonna greet you with a bug hug and a "HI MIKE" like an AA or OA meeting.
If you want that kind of love and acceptance, you probably want to seek
elsewhere. but if you want honest and upfront answers, then you can find
that here.


> I don't think this is a "I'm taking sides" kind of thing. Jayjay rubbed me
> the wrong way and really ****ed me off. If you like her -- I really don't
> care. However, I want this to be clear: I directed all of my comments
> towards Jaylay and not anybody else.
>
> If somebody want to advise or even critisze me, I don't have a problem
with
> that. I even thought most of Jaybird's post made a lot of sense before she
> revealed herself.

Ah - here we go... Mu and his sockpuppet... Name calling. Lets make up
names.

>
> However, somebody (like Jaywalker) thinks they're better than me because
> they're skinny and I'm fat, I do reserve the right to blow them all the
****
> that they deserve.

Yeah - you show great maturity with your name calling and cussing.

>
> 'Nuff said.
>
> Mike

[Crafting Mom]

JayJay > wrote:
>
>Losing 40lbs is a "relatively small amount of weight"... Sorry, I caught
>myself before I had more to lose. But having lost it and being able to
>keep it off is alot better than losing it to only regain it over and over
>again.


FWIW, JayJay, I find you to be an inspiration. I've now set a new
mini-goal and am working on keeping my way of life on the straight and
narrow.
--
Your weight loss's lifespan is directly in proportion to that of your
lifestyle.

[jmk]

Nicely said!


On 10/28/2003 10:55 PM, Wendy wrote:
> In practice that meant I had to cut out most
> saturated fats and refined carbs, but I didn't do that because they are
> evil, but because they didn't add enough bang for the calorie buck. There
> are better ways to fuel my body.

Yes! The bang for the calorie buck is a very nice way of putting it. I
kinda look at it as a wallet anyway -- I mean my calorie budget. When
there are no more calories (money) left to spend, well... I had better
stop, huh? :-)

> The driving force behind this is the quest to eat less and exercise
> more.

Right. This is true for me as well. Eat less, exercise more, get
healthier.

Anyway, nice post Wendy!

--
jmk in NC

[Wendy]

Miss Jaime wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2003 23:35:36 -0400, Wendy > wrote:

>>Personally I'm having a bit of trouble with a person who lost weight from
>>375 down to "maintenance" at 330 giving out advice

> Then I will keep quiet and just do what I need to do for me.

But the end of the sentence was that someone ELSE might find your story
helpful. The guy specifically says he doesn't want to hear from people
who have solved their weight problem. My point is that the diversity in
the group is helpful in various ways.

> I did feel like you were just criticizing me when I read what you said
> about an appliance I barely use anymore.

I'm sorry. I *was* being critical and that's rude. I was shoving you
down a path you're already going down at your own pace.

> Am having a very rough night at the moment so instead of jumping into
> the refined carbs (which is what I *want* to do) I'm just going to
> have a glass of water and head to bed.

Two really important elements of fat loss for me have been getting enough
sleep and getting enough water. So I'm saying this out loud: I can
see that you're *on* the right path!

Wendy

[Wendy]

jmk wrote:
> Yes! The bang for the calorie buck is a very nice way of putting it. I
> kinda look at it as a wallet anyway -- I mean my calorie budget. When
> there are no more calories (money) left to spend, well... I had better
> stop, huh? :-)

Yes! I'm financially inclined so maybe this analogy works for me better
than for most people, though. I was trying to explain what was going on
when I was in a chocolate store the other day. I was there to buy my
daughter some chocolate and the place smelled heavenly. I would have been
quite content to spend the next two hours lying on a couch eating bon bons
from that place. But I didn't for three equally reasonable reasons:

1.) I don't have much money right now and that stuff was expensive
2.) I didn't have a spare two hours to spend lying on a couch
3.) It would have been over my calorie budget.

So I didn't buy out the store because there was no logical reason to
behave so contrary to my own best interests. Even if I had the time and
the money I still wouldn't have had the calorie budget. It didn't take
willpower, it just came naturally to not overeat - the same way as it
comes naturally to NOT buy something you want but can't afford.

Honestly, I wouldn't have seen it this way a year ago. I didn't have my
epiphany where I changed my mind about recreational eating until Halloween
last year. While poised over a bowl of Halloween candy I suddenly
realized I didn't want a piece of candy because it wouldn't be NICE to
myself to eat for recreation when I was fat and didn't want to be. Being
nice to myself was suddenly transformed from allowing myself pleasant
mouth feel to choosing better ways to entertain myself more in line with
my circumstances.

-- Wendy

[jmk]

On 10/29/2003 8:09 AM, Wendy wrote:
> Miss Jaime wrote:
>
>>On 28 Oct 2003 23:35:36 -0400, Wendy > wrote:
>
>
>>>Personally I'm having a bit of trouble with a person who lost weight from
>>>375 down to "maintenance" at 330 giving out advice
>
>
>>Then I will keep quiet and just do what I need to do for me.
>
>
> But the end of the sentence was that someone ELSE might find your story
> helpful. The guy specifically says he doesn't want to hear from people
> who have solved their weight problem. My point is that the diversity in
> the group is helpful in various ways.

Right, take what you like and leave the rest, as they say that in dog
training (along with don't make the judge think!).

I also like to think of some work meetings in a similar way. Was the
meeting a complete waste of time or did I get something out of it? Yes,
a lot of what is discussed in this newsgroup is not right for me (at
least at the moment) but maybe I get a tidbit out of it that is useful
down the road or maybe someone says, "Boy, was it ever a mistake when
I..." and I am able to avoid that pitfall.

--
jmk in NC

[Perple Glow]

Hey Wendy,
In your opinion, how much does not getting enough sleep effect fat loss? I
am a frequent insomiac and just wondering... thanks.

(I do drink alot of water though)

>
> Two really important elements of fat loss for me have been getting enough
> sleep and getting enough water.
> Wendy

[Jayjay]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:32:55 GMT, Crafting Mom
> wrote:

>JayJay > wrote:
>>
>>Losing 40lbs is a "relatively small amount of weight"... Sorry, I caught
>>myself before I had more to lose. But having lost it and being able to
>>keep it off is alot better than losing it to only regain it over and over
>>again.
>
>
>FWIW, JayJay, I find you to be an inspiration. I've now set a new
>mini-goal and am working on keeping my way of life on the straight and
>narrow.

Thanks CM.

Ya know - I discovered a new motivational inspiration this past
weekend while on my bike ride.

We have this older woman in town. My guess is she's upper 70's/low
80's in age. Ever since I've lived here I've seen this woman riding
her 3wheeled cycle around town. And boy does she ride all over town.
From what I know (BF's workmate goes to church with the woman) she
rides everywhere. I see her in the mornings with curlers in her
hair. Or I'll see her in the afternoon w/ bags of groceries in her
little basket.

This weekend I passed her (going opposite directions) and here's this
woman decked out in leapord print spandex and a blousey shirt, hair is
long and pulled back under her bandana thingy over her hair.

To look that good at her age to get away with wearing animal print
skin tight pants.. WOW. Now that's an inspiration. Yeah, I can
ride 20 miles in under 1 1/2 hrs, but she is an inspiration to be that
fit and have the energy to still trike all over town at that age. I
want to be like that when I get that age. :-)

I was temped to turn around and go tell her how much of an inspiration
she is to me.

[Beverly]

http://www.abed.com/sleepcenter/weightgain.html

Granted this site is an advertisement for beds but you might be able to
search for additional sites from the information given.


"Perple Glow" > wrote in message
news:ScQnb.55339$Fm2.34355@attbi_s04...
> Hey Wendy,
> In your opinion, how much does not getting enough sleep effect fat loss?
I
> am a frequent insomiac and just wondering... thanks.
>
> (I do drink alot of water though)
>
> >
> > Two really important elements of fat loss for me have been getting
enough
> > sleep and getting enough water.
> > Wendy
>
>

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:55:54 GMT, (Jayjay) wrote:

>
>Yeah - well based on his latest post, Ignoramus, you amongst many
>other of us supposedly "Skinny" folks are not worth listening to.

Works for me.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Jayjay]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:33:22 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> wrote:

>Hey Wendy,
>In your opinion, how much does not getting enough sleep effect fat loss? I
>am a frequent insomiac and just wondering... thanks.
>
>(I do drink alot of water though)

I'm not wendy, but I'll add my 2cents. :)

For me - lack of sleep from insomnia means too tired the next day for
a good workout. In the overall grand scheme of fat loss - this
really effects me.

For me, it turns into a cycle. Workouts - especially the good, hard
ones, make me sleep better at night. If I have a case of insomnia
(which I've been suffering from this week, BTW) usually means that
come time for workouts I just am too tired and don't have the energy.
But then when I sleep that night, since I didn't workout, I have
trouble sleeping. And the cycle starts ...

I'm struggling with this right now. I'm so tired I could fall asleep
at my desk. I skipped my workouts both today and yesterday, All
because I am not sleeping well. This started on Sunday - when I
skipped my workout (and went to the football game - and the time
change, oh, and I had my depo shot last week... and the temp changes
in FL right now, so a combo of factors that is causing this).

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:27:03 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:

>Jayiay came across to me as a person who (a) lost a relateively small amount
>of weight a long time ago, (b) who has not succeeded at her other stated
>goals, (c) has a holier than thou attittude, and (d) passed off a negative
>judgement and insulted me in response to my first post.

Add divorced and playing house for six years without a permanent
commitment to her BF, you have a nasty, middle aged dump.

>However, somebody (like Jaywalker) thinks they're better than me because
>they're skinny and I'm fat, I do reserve the right to blow them all the ****
>that they deserve.

Go right ahead.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:21:45 GMT, Barbara Hirsch
> wrote:

>You'll probably never believe this, but I know how to knit, crochet,
>needle point, and petit point.

It's not that I don't believe it, it's that I absolutely could care
less, Babs.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:28:41 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:

>> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
>> Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
>
>That is a cool link and a great sig line.

Thank you.

Are you enjoying your introduction to the Girl's Club here?

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Wendy]

Perple Glow wrote:
> In your opinion, how much does not getting enough sleep effect fat loss? I
> am a frequent insomiac and just wondering... thanks.

Sleep deprivation is associated with a higher cortisol level which is
associated with greater abdominal fat storage.

Being too tired makes it more likely I'll skip a morning workout and
skipping a morning workout makes it more likely I'll skip working out
entirely.

Being too tired makes me more prone to reach for quick energy pick-me-ups
which are generally in the form of energy-dense nutrient-poor
carbs. (Have you ever noticed how carbs magically appear whenever you're
low on energy?)

I discovered the link between lack of sleep and weight loss through some
journalling I did a few years ago. A really clear pattern emerged based
on what time of night I turned in. I usually had GOOD "diet days" on days
after I had gone to bed by 11:00 and I usually had BAD diet days on days
after I had gone to bed after midnight.

Wendy

[determined]

"Jayjay" > wrote in message
>
> I was temped to turn around and go tell her how much of an inspiration
> she is to me.

I think you should! I'll bet it would really make her day.

det

[Wendy]

beeswing wrote:
> Wendy wrote:

>>Oh, I got it! I saw in the thread that you had a response to my post and
>>I guessed before I read it what you'd say. I was wrong

> I don't understand why you would respond to a post without reading it. Am I in
> your personal part-time killfile?

LOL, NO! I am truly doing an astoundingly bad job of conveying
information today!

No, when I said "I thought you were going to say" something, I mean I
thought you were going to say it when I saw that you had replied (but
before I read the reply.) I DID read the reply and mentioned in the reply
that I had had that thought, because my point was that I knew you had
something valuable to say that I wasn't going to say and I was half
expecting to see it.

No doubt this only made things even muddier. :-)

At least there is no way you can take it as an insult!

Wendy

[Jayjay]

On 29 Oct 2003 11:34:35 -0400, Wendy > wrote:

>beeswing wrote:
>> Wendy wrote:
>
>>>Oh, I got it! I saw in the thread that you had a response to my post and
>>>I guessed before I read it what you'd say. I was wrong
>
>> I don't understand why you would respond to a post without reading it. Am I in
>> your personal part-time killfile?
>
>LOL, NO! I am truly doing an astoundingly bad job of conveying
>information today!
>
>No, when I said "I thought you were going to say" something, I mean I
>thought you were going to say it when I saw that you had replied (but
>before I read the reply.) I DID read the reply and mentioned in the reply
>that I had had that thought, because my point was that I knew you had
>something valuable to say that I wasn't going to say and I was half
>expecting to see it.
>
>No doubt this only made things even muddier. :-)
>
>At least there is no way you can take it as an insult!
>
>Wendy


LOL ... girls, girls, girls.... Go back to your corners. :)

I'm so confused I've got a headache after reading this. :)

[Mike Turco]

"Mars at the Mu_n's Edge" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:27:03 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> > wrote:
>
> >Jayiay came across to me as a person who (a) lost a relateively small
amount
> >of weight a long time ago, (b) who has not succeeded at her other stated
> >goals, (c) has a holier than thou attittude, and (d) passed off a
negative
> >judgement and insulted me in response to my first post.
>
> Add divorced and playing house for six years without a permanent
> commitment to her BF, you have a nasty, middle aged dump.
>
> >However, somebody (like Jaywalker) thinks they're better than me because
> >they're skinny and I'm fat, I do reserve the right to blow them all the
****
> >that they deserve.
>
> Go right ahead.

Thank you!

There is obviously a lot of name calling and bickering in this group. Its
kind of like an added benefit because I can get great diet advice AND blow
off some steam while I'm here :) Some people go out of their way to make
themselves a target! (Whether it is subconscious or they are just trolling,
I don't know. But there appears to be a good number of trolls in this group
and that's sad, because there are a lot of sincere people too.)

I think a lot of people hate you because you insist on telling the truth.
Somewhere else you made a comment about not being able to accurately count
calories on your own, which I'm sure is very true. At the same time, you
probably **** on ten people's mantras who go through life trying to count
the calories for every gram of fat.

Anyway, its good to be here. Lets all be loosers here today.

Mike

[Jennifer Austin]

"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
>
> I discovered the link between lack of sleep and weight loss through some
> journalling I did a few years ago. A really clear pattern emerged based
> on what time of night I turned in. I usually had GOOD "diet days" on days
> after I had gone to bed by 11:00 and I usually had BAD diet days on days
> after I had gone to bed after midnight.
>
> Wendy

This is a great idea. I do journaling and logging daily so I'm going to
start recording my sleep times to see if there is any relationship between
that and my hunger or eating patterns. My spreadsheet has plenty of room :)

Jenn

[SnugBear]

"Jayjay" wrote

>
> Ya know - I discovered a new motivational inspiration this past
> weekend while on my bike ride.
>
> We have this older woman in town. My guess is she's upper 70's/low
> 80's in age. Ever since I've lived here I've seen this woman riding
> her 3wheeled cycle around town. And boy does she ride all over town.
> From what I know (BF's workmate goes to church with the woman) she
> rides everywhere. I see her in the mornings with curlers in her
> hair. Or I'll see her in the afternoon w/ bags of groceries in her
> little basket.
>
> This weekend I passed her (going opposite directions) and here's this
> woman decked out in leapord print spandex and a blousey shirt, hair is
> long and pulled back under her bandana thingy over her hair.
>
> To look that good at her age to get away with wearing animal print
> skin tight pants.. WOW. Now that's an inspiration. Yeah, I can
> ride 20 miles in under 1 1/2 hrs, but she is an inspiration to be that
> fit and have the energy to still trike all over town at that age. I
> want to be like that when I get that age. :-)
>
> I was temped to turn around and go tell her how much of an inspiration
> she is to me.

Great story Jayjay! Please do stop and tell her when you see her again.
She may have a story to tell you.

I just loved it when strangers introduced themselves to me at the store (or
out on the road) when I was in the process of walking my ass off!

It might just make her day.

--
Walking on . . .
Laurie in Maine
207/110 60 inches of attitude!
Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:58:10 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:

>There is obviously a lot of name calling and bickering in this group. Its
>kind of like an added benefit because I can get great diet advice AND blow
>off some steam while I'm here :)

There you go.

>Some people go out of their way to make
>themselves a target! (Whether it is subconscious or they are just trolling,
>I don't know. But there appears to be a good number of trolls in this group
>and that's sad, because there are a lot of sincere people too.)

Yes there are but the list sisters are very snotty and very much full
of crap.

>I think a lot of people hate you because you insist on telling the truth.

Comes with the territory.

>Somewhere else you made a comment about not being able to accurately count
>calories on your own, which I'm sure is very true. At the same time, you
>probably **** on ten people's mantras who go through life trying to count
>the calories for every gram of fat.

Yes but the truth is, nonetheless, the truth.

>Anyway, its good to be here. Lets all be loosers here today.

Let all who are sincere to be here today.

Btw, I know Dr. Andrew Chung personally. We both live in the Atlanta
area. Seriously, feel free to email him or go to a chat.



http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[janice]

Wendy I'm not not sure whether you mean the link between lack of sleep
and weight loss was solely because you ate less on the days when you
went to bed earlier (or more on the days when you stayed up), or
whether going to bed at different times has some effect on your
metabolism.
I assume you mean the former, in which case presumably staying up late
is fine as long as it doesn't cause you to eat more?
And does length of day make any difference - how many hours between
getting up and going to bed?
janice

>
>"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> I discovered the link between lack of sleep and weight loss through some
>> journalling I did a few years ago. A really clear pattern emerged based
>> on what time of night I turned in. I usually had GOOD "diet days" on days
>> after I had gone to bed by 11:00 and I usually had BAD diet days on days
>> after I had gone to bed after midnight.
>>
>> Wendy

[PerpleGlow]

Thanks!!!

"Beverly" > wrote in message >...
> http://www.abed.com/sleepcenter/weightgain.html
>
> Granted this site is an advertisement for beds but you might be able to
> search for additional sites from the information given.
>
>
> "Perple Glow" > wrote in message
> news:ScQnb.55339$Fm2.34355@attbi_s04...
> > Hey Wendy,
> > In your opinion, how much does not getting enough sleep effect fat loss?
> I
> > am a frequent insomiac and just wondering... thanks.
> >
> > (I do drink alot of water though)
> >
> > >
> > > Two really important elements of fat loss for me have been getting
> enough
> > > sleep and getting enough water.
> > > Wendy
> >
> >

[PerpleGlow]

I haven't been sleeping well because I've been going thru a job
change, along with everything else. Thank you for your post, I'll
have a nice long work out today....

As you can see, it is 6:30 AM and I couldn't sleep! I usually wake up
after 8 these days!

(Jayjay) wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:33:22 GMT, "Perple Glow"
> > wrote:
>
> >Hey Wendy,
> >In your opinion, how much does not getting enough sleep effect fat loss? I
> >am a frequent insomiac and just wondering... thanks.
> >
> >(I do drink alot of water though)
>
> I'm not wendy, but I'll add my 2cents. :)
>
> For me - lack of sleep from insomnia means too tired the next day for
> a good workout. In the overall grand scheme of fat loss - this
> really effects me.
>
> For me, it turns into a cycle. Workouts - especially the good, hard
> ones, make me sleep better at night. If I have a case of insomnia
> (which I've been suffering from this week, BTW) usually means that
> come time for workouts I just am too tired and don't have the energy.
> But then when I sleep that night, since I didn't workout, I have
> trouble sleeping. And the cycle starts ...
>
> I'm struggling with this right now. I'm so tired I could fall asleep
> at my desk. I skipped my workouts both today and yesterday, All
> because I am not sleeping well. This started on Sunday - when I
> skipped my workout (and went to the football game - and the time
> change, oh, and I had my depo shot last week... and the temp changes
> in FL right now, so a combo of factors that is causing this).

[PerpleGlow]

Thank you.... I'll try to go to bed earlier. However, that doesn't
mean I'll sleep late and still get the right amount of sleep! I went
to bed at 11:00 last night and woke up at 5 this morning....

Wendy > wrote in message >...
> Perple Glow wrote:
> > In your opinion, how much does not getting enough sleep effect fat loss? I
> > am a frequent insomiac and just wondering... thanks.
>
> Sleep deprivation is associated with a higher cortisol level which is
> associated with greater abdominal fat storage.
>
> Being too tired makes it more likely I'll skip a morning workout and
> skipping a morning workout makes it more likely I'll skip working out
> entirely.
>
> Being too tired makes me more prone to reach for quick energy pick-me-ups
> which are generally in the form of energy-dense nutrient-poor
> carbs. (Have you ever noticed how carbs magically appear whenever you're
> low on energy?)
>
> I discovered the link between lack of sleep and weight loss through some
> journalling I did a few years ago. A really clear pattern emerged based
> on what time of night I turned in. I usually had GOOD "diet days" on days
> after I had gone to bed by 11:00 and I usually had BAD diet days on days
> after I had gone to bed after midnight.
>
> Wendy

[PerpleGlow]

I've been crocheting since I was 7 yrs old... if only I had the free
time to do it now... it's been 2-3 years.... :(

Miss Jaime > wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:15:44 -0500, "Beverly" >
> wrote:
>
>
> >I never mastered knitting. I can crochet and used to do quite a bit of
> >sewing but those knitting needles never cooperated <g> Maybe after I
> >retire I'll take some classes for knitting.
>
> Ironically I find crocheting more difficult then knitting even though
> I have learned the chain stitch.

[Beverly]

"SnugBear" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jayjay" wrote
>
> >
> > Ya know - I discovered a new motivational inspiration this past
> > weekend while on my bike ride.
> >
> > We have this older woman in town. My guess is she's upper 70's/low
> > 80's in age. Ever since I've lived here I've seen this woman riding
> > her 3wheeled cycle around town. And boy does she ride all over town.
> > From what I know (BF's workmate goes to church with the woman) she
> > rides everywhere. I see her in the mornings with curlers in her
> > hair. Or I'll see her in the afternoon w/ bags of groceries in her
> > little basket.
> >
> > This weekend I passed her (going opposite directions) and here's this
> > woman decked out in leapord print spandex and a blousey shirt, hair is
> > long and pulled back under her bandana thingy over her hair.
> >
> > To look that good at her age to get away with wearing animal print
> > skin tight pants.. WOW. Now that's an inspiration. Yeah, I can
> > ride 20 miles in under 1 1/2 hrs, but she is an inspiration to be that
> > fit and have the energy to still trike all over town at that age. I
> > want to be like that when I get that age. :-)
> >
> > I was temped to turn around and go tell her how much of an inspiration
> > she is to me.
>
> Great story Jayjay! Please do stop and tell her when you see her again.
> She may have a story to tell you.
>
> I just loved it when strangers introduced themselves to me at the store
(or
> out on the road) when I was in the process of walking my ass off!
>
> It might just make her day.
>
> --
> Walking on . . .
> Laurie in Maine
> 207/110 60 inches of attitude!
> Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03
>
I agree. You should stop and talk to her. I know I always enjoy people
stopping to talk to the granddaughters and I when we're out on the bike
trails. Many people have commented about how great they think it is to see
a grandparent and grandkids riding together. We've met some great people
this way.

Beverly

[Beverly]

"PerpleGlow" > wrote in message
om...
> I've been crocheting since I was 7 yrs old... if only I had the free
> time to do it now... it's been 2-3 years.... :(
>

I was around 7 when I learned to crochet. A childless couple who were
friends of my parents sort of adopted me. I spent many nights at their
house when the husband was away on business as she hated to stay by
herself. We spent many evenings crocheting. She tried to teach me
knitting but I never quite got the hang of working two needles :(

Beverly

> Miss Jaime > wrote in message
>...
> > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:15:44 -0500, "Beverly" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >I never mastered knitting. I can crochet and used to do quite a bit
of
> > >sewing but those knitting needles never cooperated <g> Maybe after I
> > >retire I'll take some classes for knitting.
> >
> > Ironically I find crocheting more difficult then knitting even though
> > I have learned the chain stitch.

[Mars at the Mu_n's Edge]

On 30 Oct 2003 05:28:06 GMT, (beeswing) wrote:

>The truth? Calorie counting is indeed an inexact science. That having been
>said, armed with a measuring cup, a kitchen scale, and www.fitday.com, I
>calorie-counted 70 pounds off of me. You might want to think twice before you
>are so quick to dismiss it.

You lowered your food intake using an inexact way to do so. It was the
lowered food intake and not the counting of calories that mattered.
The inexact counting of calories was your yardstick to a lowered food
intake.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

[Wendy]

janice wrote:
> Wendy I'm not not sure whether you mean the link between lack of sleep
> and weight loss was solely because you ate less on the days when you
> went to bed earlier (or more on the days when you stayed up), or
> whether going to bed at different times has some effect on your
> metabolism.

It has some pervasive effects on my behavior the next day. I am not a
late-night muncher - in fact, my actual calories burned while awake would
seem higher than if I spend the same time at rest. But the lack of sleep
causes some metabolic shifts in me that tend to a.) hold onto fat at a
cellular level and b.) cause me to be more likely to eat for energy boosts
and c.) cause me to be less likely to work out hard because I'm tired.

I'm not an expert on cortisol, but do a search on cortisol and sleep
deprivation and fat storage and see what you find! (Sorry, don't have
time right now to do that research myself!)

-- Wendy

[Bob Pastorio]

Mars at the Mu_n's Edge wrote:

> On 30 Oct 2003 05:28:06 GMT, (beeswing) wrote:
>
>>The truth? Calorie counting is indeed an inexact science. That having been
>>said, armed with a measuring cup, a kitchen scale, and www.fitday.com, I
>>calorie-counted 70 pounds off of me. You might want to think twice before you
>>are so quick to dismiss it.
>
> You lowered your food intake using an inexact way to do so. It was the
> lowered food intake and not the counting of calories that mattered.
> The inexact counting of calories was your yardstick to a lowered food
> intake.

How about the inexact amount of water in foods. Some have a lot and
some have very little. Some have a lot of calories some have few. Mere
weight is only an indication of weight. Dehydrated food like the
Everest climbers ate make your scheme void and ludicrous. Eat dry food
and drink the water weight in later? Good use of common sense.

Beeswing used a method that worked and has been documented literally
millions of times. Unlike your 2PoundPOWDiet.

Pastorio

[George]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:00:06 -0800, "Mike Turco"
> wrote:


>
>Its easy to say, "Get rid of the old habits and replace them with new ones."
>What new habits? For example, I wake up about six times a night and hit the
>goddamn fridge. What am I supposed to do at 4:30AM? What new habit do I
>throw in there?
>
>Mike
>


Well, that is unusual. Perhaps you need to replace the eating activity
with something else. Do you have any hobbies? Do you like to read? Do
you own any exercise equipment? (Even if you don't, there are ways to
exercise at 4:30 PM...) Those are all things you could do at odd hours
of the night.

Do you have any sleep disorders? Perhaps a doctor could help. That is
an awful lot to be waking at night.

At worst, get online, see if you can raise someone on this group to
try and talk you out of eating.

Also, you mentioned that Atkins worked for you. It may be that you are
one of those people who are somewhat sensitive to carbohydrates. You
might start by cutting down on white flour products and sugars.

Cynthia
262/234.5/200 first goal