General Rules of Induction

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
asked every two weeks, over and over:

- Stay under 20g carbs and be strict about it. Do not think that you can eat
25 or 30, or whatever. Stay UNDER 20g.

- Eat lots of green veggies. Most of your carbs should come from fiber
filled green vegetables. The rest of the carbs will come from trace amounts
of carbs in things like cheese, eggs, and cured meats.

- Try and avoid overly processed and cured meats because they contain lots
of sodium and nitrates, which aren't good to begin with, but which can make
you retain water and seemingly "stall"

- Take psyllium husk for fiber supplements if you don't feel "regular"

- Avoid caffeine.

- Avoid aspartame if you can, just to be on the safe side.

- Avoid too many saturated fats. Try and go with mono and poly saturates,
they are healthier forms of fat.

- Take a nutritional supplement (multi vitamin), and a good one at that. You
can get a decent 3 month supply for about $7 American at Wal-Mart. Get a
good brand, not a brand like equate (Wal-Mart house brand), because better
brands are more complete in most cases.

- Get 7-8 hours of sleep regularly. You cannot "catch up" on sleep, so if
you cant get sleep, cut your losses and move on towards the next solid block
you can get sleep wise.

- Avoid weighing yourself all the time, this just creates frustration if you
don't see the scale move as much as you wish it would.

- Avoid alcohol.

- Avoid sugar alcohols (malitol, sucralose, et all)

- Avoid special "low carb" formulated foods. You can try these later on, but
induction is meant to be for cleaning your system out and breaking these
food addictions that you can get in "low carb" Atkins advantage type bar
form.

The following things are your friends.
- Peanut butter.
- Pork Rinds are an excellent substitute for crackers.
- Splenda is great.
- Sugar free Jell-O
- Beef Jerky
- Eggs
- Cottage Cheese
- Sunflower Seeds
- Peanuts (blanched, plain white)

- Carb blockers DO NOT WORK. THEY DO NOT WORK.

- Exercise can be as simple as walking a flight of stairs instead of using
the elevator.

- Ketostix are completely UNNECESSARY, and if you get them and they don't
change color, you may still very well be in ketosis, so don't sweat it.

- Your family may not be supportive, but explain your WOE to them and see
what happens.

- Use these websites
- www.fitday.com
- www.atkins.com

- Come here for support, but don't get offended if you get attacked for
asking something for the 12343524645000563493th time.

- Search Usenet for answers at http://groups.google.com

[Jean M.]

"Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:

>Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
>asked every two weeks, over and over:

<snip very helpful list>

>The following things are your friends.
>- Peanut butter.
>- Sugar free Jell-O
>- Sunflower Seeds
>- Peanuts (blanched, plain white)

All of the above are ok during induction? Atkins says no nuts. Am I
confused?

[JC Der Koenig]

There's no need to avoid caffeine.

--
JC

Eat less, exercise more.

--
"Steven C (Doktersteve)" > wrote in message
news:kThVb.10968$QX4.2126@clgrps13...
> Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
> asked every two weeks, over and over:
>
> - Stay under 20g carbs and be strict about it. Do not think that you can
eat
> 25 or 30, or whatever. Stay UNDER 20g.
>
> - Eat lots of green veggies. Most of your carbs should come from fiber
> filled green vegetables. The rest of the carbs will come from trace
amounts
> of carbs in things like cheese, eggs, and cured meats.
>
> - Try and avoid overly processed and cured meats because they contain lots
> of sodium and nitrates, which aren't good to begin with, but which can
make
> you retain water and seemingly "stall"
>
> - Take psyllium husk for fiber supplements if you don't feel "regular"
>
> - Avoid caffeine.
>
> - Avoid aspartame if you can, just to be on the safe side.
>
> - Avoid too many saturated fats. Try and go with mono and poly saturates,
> they are healthier forms of fat.
>
> - Take a nutritional supplement (multi vitamin), and a good one at that.
You
> can get a decent 3 month supply for about $7 American at Wal-Mart. Get a
> good brand, not a brand like equate (Wal-Mart house brand), because better
> brands are more complete in most cases.
>
> - Get 7-8 hours of sleep regularly. You cannot "catch up" on sleep, so if
> you cant get sleep, cut your losses and move on towards the next solid
block
> you can get sleep wise.
>
> - Avoid weighing yourself all the time, this just creates frustration if
you
> don't see the scale move as much as you wish it would.
>
> - Avoid alcohol.
>
> - Avoid sugar alcohols (malitol, sucralose, et all)
>
> - Avoid special "low carb" formulated foods. You can try these later on,
but
> induction is meant to be for cleaning your system out and breaking these
> food addictions that you can get in "low carb" Atkins advantage type bar
> form.
>
> The following things are your friends.
> - Peanut butter.
> - Pork Rinds are an excellent substitute for crackers.
> - Splenda is great.
> - Sugar free Jell-O
> - Beef Jerky
> - Eggs
> - Cottage Cheese
> - Sunflower Seeds
> - Peanuts (blanched, plain white)
>
> - Carb blockers DO NOT WORK. THEY DO NOT WORK.
>
> - Exercise can be as simple as walking a flight of stairs instead of using
> the elevator.
>
> - Ketostix are completely UNNECESSARY, and if you get them and they don't
> change color, you may still very well be in ketosis, so don't sweat it.
>
> - Your family may not be supportive, but explain your WOE to them and see
> what happens.
>
> - Use these websites
> - www.fitday.com
> - www.atkins.com
>
> - Come here for support, but don't get offended if you get attacked for
> asking something for the 12343524645000563493th time.
>
> - Search Usenet for answers at http://groups.google.com
>
>
>
>

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

"Jean M." > wrote in message
...
> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
>
> >Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
> >asked every two weeks, over and over:
>
> <snip very helpful list>
>
> >The following things are your friends.
> >- Peanut butter.
> >- Sugar free Jell-O
> >- Sunflower Seeds
> >- Peanuts (blanched, plain white)
>
> All of the above are ok during induction? Atkins says no nuts. Am I
> confused?

Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.

If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.

Think about it.
If peanut butter is ok during induction as a snack (a tablespoon of it is
great).... :-)

[DJ Delorie]

"Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > writes:
> If peanut butter is ok during induction as a snack (a tablespoon of it is
> great).... :-)

Peanut butter is not on the acceptable foods list for Induction.

However, Atkins does allow for "other combinations of foods adding up
to 20g carbs" (paraphrased). I don't particularly like that loophole,
but only because it allows trigger foods. And nuts, to some people,
are addictive - thus you exceed your carb limit way too easily. I'd
put them on the no-no list. Hey, it's only two weeks.

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

"DJ Delorie" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > writes:
> > If peanut butter is ok during induction as a snack (a tablespoon of it
is
> > great).... :-)
>
> Peanut butter is not on the acceptable foods list for Induction.
>
> However, Atkins does allow for "other combinations of foods adding up
> to 20g carbs" (paraphrased). I don't particularly like that loophole,
> but only because it allows trigger foods. And nuts, to some people,
> are addictive - thus you exceed your carb limit way too easily. I'd
> put them on the no-no list. Hey, it's only two weeks.

Great help for this thread.
Thanks for the clarification.

If this group had a FAQ or charter, it would make life much easier for those
who have been around for a bit.

[JC Der Koenig]

http://tinyurl.com/3b5yw


What the **** do you think RRzVRR is posting every day?
Damn boy, wake the **** up already.
--
JC

Eat less, exercise more.

--
"Steven C (Doktersteve)" > wrote in message
news:XPiVb.11465$QX4.3124@clgrps13...
>
> "DJ Delorie" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > writes:
> > > If peanut butter is ok during induction as a snack (a tablespoon of it
> is
> > > great).... :-)
> >
> > Peanut butter is not on the acceptable foods list for Induction.
> >
> > However, Atkins does allow for "other combinations of foods adding up
> > to 20g carbs" (paraphrased). I don't particularly like that loophole,
> > but only because it allows trigger foods. And nuts, to some people,
> > are addictive - thus you exceed your carb limit way too easily. I'd
> > put them on the no-no list. Hey, it's only two weeks.
>
> Great help for this thread.
> Thanks for the clarification.
>
> If this group had a FAQ or charter, it would make life much easier for
those
> who have been around for a bit.
>
>

[Jean M.]

"Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:

>
>"Jean M." > wrote in message
...
>> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
>>
>> >Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
>> >asked every two weeks, over and over:
>>
>> <snip very helpful list>
>>
>> >The following things are your friends.
>> >- Peanut butter.
>> >- Sugar free Jell-O
>> >- Sunflower Seeds
>> >- Peanuts (blanched, plain white)
>>
>> All of the above are ok during induction? Atkins says no nuts. Am I
>> confused?
>
>Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
>2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
>
>If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.
>
>Think about it.
>If peanut butter is ok during induction as a snack (a tablespoon of it is
>great).... :-)

I'm not being nitpicky, just clarifying. If we're calling it
Induction, it should follow the Atkins rules and not what we think
might be ok. :-) It could be that there are conflicting statements,
even from Atkins. I've found a few. But this is what is online, and it
doesn't include jello or pork rinds or nuts:

http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-464579.html
"Eat nothing that isn't on the Acceptable Foods list. And that means
absolutely nothing. Your "just this one taste won't hurt"
rationalization is the kiss of failure during this phase of Atkins."

and
http://tinyurl.com/24v69
"Are nuts and seeds okay on Induction even though they have
carbohydrates?

Atkins is not about eating no carbs. It is about controlling carb
intake and eating those that are most nutrient-dense. Different nuts
and seeds have different percentages of fat, protein and carbohydrate.
We don't recommend eating them during the first two weeks of
Induction. But after that if you are continuing to lose steadily, you
can try introducing some. Note, however, that nuts and seeds may
contain mold, which could trigger an allergic response.

However, it is worth mentioning that nuts are notoriously hard to eat
in moderation. One leads to another until you may have eaten several
ounces. Try buying the one- or two-ounce packets so you won't be
tempted to over indulge."

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

"Jean M." > wrote in message
...
> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Jean M." > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to
get
> >> >asked every two weeks, over and over:
> >>
> >> <snip very helpful list>
> >>
> >> >The following things are your friends.
> >> >- Peanut butter.
> >> >- Sugar free Jell-O
> >> >- Sunflower Seeds
> >> >- Peanuts (blanched, plain white)
> >>
> >> All of the above are ok during induction? Atkins says no nuts. Am I
> >> confused?
> >
> >Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
> >2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
> >
> >If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.
> >
> >Think about it.
> >If peanut butter is ok during induction as a snack (a tablespoon of it is
> >great).... :-)
>
> I'm not being nitpicky, just clarifying. If we're calling it
> Induction, it should follow the Atkins rules and not what we think
> might be ok. :-) It could be that there are conflicting statements,
> even from Atkins. I've found a few. But this is what is online, and it
> doesn't include jello or pork rinds or nuts:
>
> http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-464579.html
> "Eat nothing that isn't on the Acceptable Foods list. And that means
> absolutely nothing. Your "just this one taste won't hurt"
> rationalization is the kiss of failure during this phase of Atkins."
>
> and
> http://tinyurl.com/24v69
> "Are nuts and seeds okay on Induction even though they have
> carbohydrates?
>
> Atkins is not about eating no carbs. It is about controlling carb
> intake and eating those that are most nutrient-dense. Different nuts
> and seeds have different percentages of fat, protein and carbohydrate.
> We don't recommend eating them during the first two weeks of
> Induction. But after that if you are continuing to lose steadily, you
> can try introducing some. Note, however, that nuts and seeds may
> contain mold, which could trigger an allergic response.
>
> However, it is worth mentioning that nuts are notoriously hard to eat
> in moderation. One leads to another until you may have eaten several
> ounces. Try buying the one- or two-ounce packets so you won't be
> tempted to over indulge."

yeah yeah. I get it.
Thanks.

As I already said, I appreciate extra info in this thread. As long as it
helps new people, its all fine to me, and I take no offense, but your point
has been well made :-)

[Jean M.]

"Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:

>As I already said, I appreciate extra info in this thread. As long as it
>helps new people, its all fine to me, and I take no offense, but your point
>has been well made :-)

I hope I didn't sound rude, I didn't mean to. You posted some very
good advice. There is a FAQ that is posted daily. I don't know if it's
official or not.

[marengo]

Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:
| Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
| asked every two weeks, over and over:
|
| - Stay under 20g carbs and be strict about it. Do not think that you can
| eat 25 or 30, or whatever. Stay UNDER 20g.
|
| - Eat lots of green veggies. Most of your carbs should come from fiber
| filled green vegetables. The rest of the carbs will come from trace
| amounts of carbs in things like cheese, eggs, and cured meats.
|
| - Try and avoid overly processed and cured meats because they contain lots
| of sodium and nitrates, which aren't good to begin with, but which can
| make you retain water and seemingly "stall"
|
| - Take psyllium husk for fiber supplements if you don't feel "regular"
|
| - Avoid caffeine.
|
| - Avoid aspartame if you can, just to be on the safe side.
|
| - Avoid too many saturated fats. Try and go with mono and poly saturates,
| they are healthier forms of fat.
|
| - Take a nutritional supplement (multi vitamin), and a good one at that.
| You can get a decent 3 month supply for about $7 American at Wal-Mart.
| Get a good brand, not a brand like equate (Wal-Mart house brand), because
| better brands are more complete in most cases.
|
| - Get 7-8 hours of sleep regularly. You cannot "catch up" on sleep, so if
| you cant get sleep, cut your losses and move on towards the next solid
| block you can get sleep wise.
|
| - Avoid weighing yourself all the time, this just creates frustration if
| you don't see the scale move as much as you wish it would.
|
| - Avoid alcohol.
|
| - Avoid sugar alcohols (malitol, sucralose, et all)
|
| - Avoid special "low carb" formulated foods. You can try these later on,
| but induction is meant to be for cleaning your system out and breaking
| these food addictions that you can get in "low carb" Atkins advantage
| type bar form.
|
| The following things are your friends.
| - Peanut butter.
| - Pork Rinds are an excellent substitute for crackers.
| - Splenda is great.
| - Sugar free Jell-O
| - Beef Jerky
| - Eggs
| - Cottage Cheese
| - Sunflower Seeds
| - Peanuts (blanched, plain white)
|
| - Carb blockers DO NOT WORK. THEY DO NOT WORK.
|
| - Exercise can be as simple as walking a flight of stairs instead of using
| the elevator.
|
| - Ketostix are completely UNNECESSARY, and if you get them and they don't
| change color, you may still very well be in ketosis, so don't sweat it.
|
| - Your family may not be supportive, but explain your WOE to them and see
| what happens.
|
| - Use these websites
| - www.fitday.com
| - www.atkins.com
|
| - Come here for support, but don't get offended if you get attacked for
| asking something for the 12343524645000563493th time.
|
| - Search Usenet for answers at http://groups.google.com

Please add "IMO" (In MY Opinion) to posts like this! Some of the advice you
gave is excellent, some is not good.

Most peanut butter, for instance, contains sugar and is carby. This is
definitely not an induction food. Because aspartame stalls some people,
this happens with Sugar-Free Jello in some. Peanuts are not induction food.
--
Peter
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

[marengo]

Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:
|
| If this group had a FAQ or charter, it would make life much easier for
| those who have been around for a bit.

???

How long have you been here, Steve? <g>
ASDLC has a rather comprhensive FAQ/Charter site:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

--
Peter
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

[ConnieG999]

"Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > writes:

>If this group had a FAQ or charter, it would make life much easier for those
>who have been around for a bit.
>

WHAT do you mean? The FAQ is posted almost every day...
And we are constantly referring newbies there...

But it's easier for them to just "ask" instead of taking the time to actually
look it up and read it for themselves...unfortunately.

Connie
************************************************** ***
My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.

[TavliGal]

ConnieG999 wrote:
>> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > writes:
>>
>>> If this group had a FAQ or charter, it would make life much easier
>>> for those who have been around for a bit.
>>>
>>
>> WHAT do you mean? The FAQ is posted almost every day...
>> And we are constantly referring newbies there...
>>
>> But it's easier for them to just "ask" instead of taking the time to
>> actually look it up and read it for themselves...unfortunately.
>>
>> Connie
>> ************************************************** ***
>> My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.

Hi Connie, could you please post the Faq URL for me. I wasn't aware there
was one. Thanks
Monica

--
______________________________________
Started 01/20/04
362/343/250
______________________________________
"The true measure of a man is how he treats
someone who can do him absolutely no good."
- Samuel Johnson, (1709-1784)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 - Release Date: 2/6/04

[Bob]

If Doctersteve isn't preaching or pontificating about something...

You're not a proctologist, are you?


"JC Der Koenig" > wrote in message
m...
> http://tinyurl.com/3b5yw
>
>
> What the **** do you think RRzVRR is posting every day?
> Damn boy, wake the **** up already.
> --
> JC
>
> Eat less, exercise more.
>
> --
> "Steven C (Doktersteve)" > wrote in message
> news:XPiVb.11465$QX4.3124@clgrps13...
> >
> > "DJ Delorie" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > writes:
> > > > If peanut butter is ok during induction as a snack (a tablespoon of
it
> > is
> > > > great).... :-)
> > >
> > > Peanut butter is not on the acceptable foods list for Induction.
> > >
> > > However, Atkins does allow for "other combinations of foods adding up
> > > to 20g carbs" (paraphrased). I don't particularly like that loophole,
> > > but only because it allows trigger foods. And nuts, to some people,
> > > are addictive - thus you exceed your carb limit way too easily. I'd
> > > put them on the no-no list. Hey, it's only two weeks.
> >
> > Great help for this thread.
> > Thanks for the clarification.
> >
> > If this group had a FAQ or charter, it would make life much easier for
> those
> > who have been around for a bit.
> >
> >
>
>

[Bob]

Avoid alcohol?

What are you...goofy?


"marengo" > wrote in message
s.com...
> Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:
> | Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
> | asked every two weeks, over and over:
> |
> | - Stay under 20g carbs and be strict about it. Do not think that you can
> | eat 25 or 30, or whatever. Stay UNDER 20g.
> |
> | - Eat lots of green veggies. Most of your carbs should come from fiber
> | filled green vegetables. The rest of the carbs will come from trace
> | amounts of carbs in things like cheese, eggs, and cured meats.
> |
> | - Try and avoid overly processed and cured meats because they contain
lots
> | of sodium and nitrates, which aren't good to begin with, but which can
> | make you retain water and seemingly "stall"
> |
> | - Take psyllium husk for fiber supplements if you don't feel "regular"
> |
> | - Avoid caffeine.
> |
> | - Avoid aspartame if you can, just to be on the safe side.
> |
> | - Avoid too many saturated fats. Try and go with mono and poly
saturates,
> | they are healthier forms of fat.
> |
> | - Take a nutritional supplement (multi vitamin), and a good one at that.
> | You can get a decent 3 month supply for about $7 American at Wal-Mart.
> | Get a good brand, not a brand like equate (Wal-Mart house brand),
because
> | better brands are more complete in most cases.
> |
> | - Get 7-8 hours of sleep regularly. You cannot "catch up" on sleep, so
if
> | you cant get sleep, cut your losses and move on towards the next solid
> | block you can get sleep wise.
> |
> | - Avoid weighing yourself all the time, this just creates frustration if
> | you don't see the scale move as much as you wish it would.
> |
> | - Avoid alcohol.
> |
> | - Avoid sugar alcohols (malitol, sucralose, et all)
> |
> | - Avoid special "low carb" formulated foods. You can try these later on,
> | but induction is meant to be for cleaning your system out and breaking
> | these food addictions that you can get in "low carb" Atkins advantage
> | type bar form.
> |
> | The following things are your friends.
> | - Peanut butter.
> | - Pork Rinds are an excellent substitute for crackers.
> | - Splenda is great.
> | - Sugar free Jell-O
> | - Beef Jerky
> | - Eggs
> | - Cottage Cheese
> | - Sunflower Seeds
> | - Peanuts (blanched, plain white)
> |
> | - Carb blockers DO NOT WORK. THEY DO NOT WORK.
> |
> | - Exercise can be as simple as walking a flight of stairs instead of
using
> | the elevator.
> |
> | - Ketostix are completely UNNECESSARY, and if you get them and they
don't
> | change color, you may still very well be in ketosis, so don't sweat it.
> |
> | - Your family may not be supportive, but explain your WOE to them and
see
> | what happens.
> |
> | - Use these websites
> | - www.fitday.com
> | - www.atkins.com
> |
> | - Come here for support, but don't get offended if you get attacked for
> | asking something for the 12343524645000563493th time.
> |
> | - Search Usenet for answers at http://groups.google.com
>
> Please add "IMO" (In MY Opinion) to posts like this! Some of the advice
you
> gave is excellent, some is not good.
>
> Most peanut butter, for instance, contains sugar and is carby. This is
> definitely not an induction food. Because aspartame stalls some people,
> this happens with Sugar-Free Jello in some. Peanuts are not induction
food.
> --
> Peter
> website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo
>
>

[Anthony]

"Bob" > wrote in message
news:ZRpVb.249599$xy6.1310555@attbi_s02...
> Avoid alcohol?
>
> What are you...goofy?
>
>
LOL. That is what Atkins says, and of course it makes sense, unfortunately.
As a lifelong drinker I found it difficult, but went back after induction to
a somewhat modified alcohol intake program; more vodka, less wine. Also,
until just recently I would have three drinks in the evening; I've found
that if I can persuade myself to have a glass of water instead of the third
one I feel a hell of a lot better in the morning; of course the second drink
does lower ones resistance to having the third, but I succeed in switching
to water most evenings. Someone, Sinatra? Martin? said the problem with
not drinking is that when you wake up in the morning you know that's as good
as you're going to feel all day.

[Martha Gallagher]

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jean M. wrote:

> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Jean M." > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
> >> >asked every two weeks, over and over:
> >>
> >> <snip very helpful list>
> >>
> >> >The following things are your friends.
> >> >- Peanut butter.
> >> >- Sugar free Jell-O
> >> >- Sunflower Seeds
> >> >- Peanuts (blanched, plain white)
> >>
> >> All of the above are ok during induction? Atkins says no nuts. Am I
> >> confused?
> >
> >Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
> >2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
> >
> >If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.
> >
> >Think about it.
> >If peanut butter is ok during induction as a snack (a tablespoon of it is
> >great).... :-)
>
> I'm not being nitpicky, just clarifying. If we're calling it
> Induction, it should follow the Atkins rules and not what we think
> might be ok. :-) It could be that there are conflicting statements,
> even from Atkins. I've found a few. But this is what is online, and it
> doesn't include jello or pork rinds or nuts:
>

Or cottage cheese. The list doesn't track atkins at all well. Why not
highlight the foods that are supposed to form the heart of Atkins, rather
than the liminal, "well, a little of this won't hurt you" foods?

> http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-464579.html
> "Eat nothing that isn't on the Acceptable Foods list. And that means
> absolutely nothing. Your "just this one taste won't hurt"
> rationalization is the kiss of failure during this phase of Atkins."
>
> and
> http://tinyurl.com/24v69
> "Are nuts and seeds okay on Induction even though they have
> carbohydrates?
>
> Atkins is not about eating no carbs. It is about controlling carb
> intake and eating those that are most nutrient-dense. Different nuts
> and seeds have different percentages of fat, protein and carbohydrate.
> We don't recommend eating them during the first two weeks of
> Induction. But after that if you are continuing to lose steadily, you
> can try introducing some. Note, however, that nuts and seeds may
> contain mold, which could trigger an allergic response.
>
> However, it is worth mentioning that nuts are notoriously hard to eat
> in moderation. One leads to another until you may have eaten several
> ounces. Try buying the one- or two-ounce packets so you won't be
> tempted to over indulge."
>

Word. <g>

Martha


--
Begin where you are - but don't end there.

[j c von dickface]

the last post was another bit of brilliant inspiration from JC...

isn't he mean?

isn't he witty?

let's all pause to honor him

[Stretch]

The LAST thing we need is another ****ing macro-doofus posting the same
reply to every message. Just killfile the SOB if you can't handle it, for
chrissakes.

~Stretch~

"j c von dickface" > wrote in message
m
> the last post was another bit of brilliant inspiration from JC...
>
> isn't he mean?
>
> isn't he witty?
>
> let's all pause to honor him

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

Steven C (Doktersteve) > wrote:

> Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
> 2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
>
> If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.

no, they aren't. nuts and seeds are not allowed on induction.

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

JC Der Koenig > wrote:

> There's no need to avoid caffeine.

thank dog.

[JC Der Koenig]

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
.. .
> JC Der Koenig > wrote:
>
> > There's no need to avoid caffeine.
>
> thank dog.

Or Atkins really would be the Angry diet.

[Mark.net]

"Steven C (Doktersteve)" > wrote in message
news:kThVb.10968$QX4.2126@clgrps13...
>
> - Take a nutritional supplement (multi vitamin), and a good one at that.
You
> can get a decent 3 month supply for about $7 American at Wal-Mart. Get a
> good brand, not a brand like equate (Wal-Mart house brand), because better
> brands are more complete in most cases.
>

Does this info come from some actual study or is it just your opinion?

Mark.

[Bob]

Atkins does not say to avoid alcohol (after Induction). The Atkins web pages, however, seem to change with the wind whenever alcohol is mentioned. My favorite bit of boozey misinformation is this latest tidbit:

Another classic explanation of pure nonsense from the Atkin's site:
"A 12-ounce can of beer contains about 12.5 grams, but you have to read the label since carbohydrate content varies from brand to brand."

What label are they reading?

NO REGULAR BREWED BEERS CARRY THIS INFORMATION


"Anthony" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> news:ZRpVb.249599$xy6.1310555@attbi_s02...
> > Avoid alcohol?
> >
> > What are you...goofy?
> >
> >
> LOL. That is what Atkins says, and of course it makes sense, unfortunately.
> As a lifelong drinker I found it difficult, but went back after induction to
> a somewhat modified alcohol intake program; more vodka, less wine. Also,
> until just recently I would have three drinks in the evening; I've found
> that if I can persuade myself to have a glass of water instead of the third
> one I feel a hell of a lot better in the morning; of course the second drink
> does lower ones resistance to having the third, but I succeed in switching
> to water most evenings. Someone, Sinatra? Martin? said the problem with
> not drinking is that when you wake up in the morning you know that's as good
> as you're going to feel all day.
>
>

[DJ Delorie]

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) writes:
> no, they aren't. nuts and seeds are not allowed on induction.

I wish they weren't, but at least the 1997 DANDR has a loophole which
allows you to make up the 20g with pretty much any food you want, and
nuts and seeds are explicitly listed as options there. It's on page
93, the page before the allowed foods list.

Folks, it's only two weeks. Suck it up and be strict about it, prove
to yourself that YOU control your eating habits. After that you can
experiment with other foods and see what works for you.

[Bob]

Atkins does not say to avoid alcohol (after Induction). The Atkins web pages, however, seem to change with the wind whenever alcohol is mentioned. My favorite bit of boozey misinformation is this latest tidbit:

Another classic explanation of pure nonsense from the Atkin's site:
"A 12-ounce can of beer contains about 12.5 grams, but you have to read the label since carbohydrate content varies from brand to brand."

What label are they reading?

NO REGULAR BREWED BEERS CARRY THIS INFORMATION


"Anthony" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> news:ZRpVb.249599$xy6.1310555@attbi_s02...
> > Avoid alcohol?
> >
> > What are you...goofy?
> >
> >
> LOL. That is what Atkins says, and of course it makes sense, unfortunately.
> As a lifelong drinker I found it difficult, but went back after induction to
> a somewhat modified alcohol intake program; more vodka, less wine. Also,
> until just recently I would have three drinks in the evening; I've found
> that if I can persuade myself to have a glass of water instead of the third
> one I feel a hell of a lot better in the morning; of course the second drink
> does lower ones resistance to having the third, but I succeed in switching
> to water most evenings. Someone, Sinatra? Martin? said the problem with
> not drinking is that when you wake up in the morning you know that's as good
> as you're going to feel all day.
>
>

[Bob]

Atkins does not say to avoid alcohol (after Induction). The Atkins web pages, however, seem to change with the wind whenever alcohol is mentioned. My favorite bit of boozey misinformation is this latest tidbit:

Another classic explanation of pure nonsense from the Atkin's site:
"A 12-ounce can of beer contains about 12.5 grams, but you have to read the label since carbohydrate content varies from brand to brand."

What label are they reading?

NO REGULAR BREWED BEERS CARRY THIS INFORMATION


"Anthony" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> news:ZRpVb.249599$xy6.1310555@attbi_s02...
> > Avoid alcohol?
> >
> > What are you...goofy?
> >
> >
> LOL. That is what Atkins says, and of course it makes sense, unfortunately.
> As a lifelong drinker I found it difficult, but went back after induction to
> a somewhat modified alcohol intake program; more vodka, less wine. Also,
> until just recently I would have three drinks in the evening; I've found
> that if I can persuade myself to have a glass of water instead of the third
> one I feel a hell of a lot better in the morning; of course the second drink
> does lower ones resistance to having the third, but I succeed in switching
> to water most evenings. Someone, Sinatra? Martin? said the problem with
> not drinking is that when you wake up in the morning you know that's as good
> as you're going to feel all day.
>
>

[ConnieG999]

"TavliGal" > writes:


>Hi Connie, could you please post the Faq URL for me. I wasn't aware there
>was one. Thanks

Here you go, and thanks for asking!

http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

FAQ: A Beginner's Guide to LowCarb Living

Did you know that the answer to many of your questions about
the Low Carb Diet can be found on the F.A.Q. (Frequently Asked
Questions) page for the alt.support.diet.low-carb newsgroup?
Try following the link below or the backup site that appears
below it:

http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm
http://home.comcast.net/~agross/asdlc/

There is a mailing list for people to receive email when the
FAQ has been updated. Aaron and Rudy have put a great amount
of time and expense into compiling and maintaining this site.
All affiliate commissions (except for Amazon.com) are donated
to a local Los Angeles charity. The Amazon.com commissions
are Aaron's sole "reward" to offset some of his costs in
time and materials. Please show your appreciation by using
his site to order your books and materials.

Did you read the FAQ but just don't remember if something
was covered? MOST questions can be answered in the FAQ without
having to read the whole FAQ. Just stick a pound sign # and the
term in question after the FAQ's URL and you will go directly
to the section of the FAQ you want. For example:

http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm#numbers
will answer your question about the numbers (##/##/##)
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm#woe
will answer your question about what WOE means

This will also work with the alternate site.

If that does not answer your questions fully, why not try
the Google Groups Search Engine? You can search all news groups
for past discussions on topics about low carb. You can find the
Google Groups Search Engine at:

http://groups.google.com/

Alternatively, do a Google advanced search

http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search

Or, use the form appearing in the left margin menu of each page
on the FAQ site.

While it is highly recommended that all newbies read the
aforementioned official ASDLC F.A.Q. before posting, the
preceding sites are meant to be an adjunct and can be browsed
at your leisure. We hope that you will find them helpful in
your weight loss endeavor.

If you are newbie to the net, you may want to read about online
etiquette.
http://www.albion.com/netiquette

Below you will find some other helpful Low Carb Diet links.

Other F.A.Q. Links/Getting Started:

http://www.atkinscenter.com/faq.html
http://www.locarbliving.com/kit.html
http://low-carb.org/faq/
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/LowcarbingDream/index.html
http://www.titanic.kn-bremen.de/induction.html
http://wilstar.com/lowcarb/
http://www.gis.net/~mamyers/LCfaq.htm

Induction:

http://www.titanic.kn-bremen.de/induction.html

Low-Carbohydrate Book Author Sites:

http://www.theketogenicdiet.com/
http://www.eatprotein.com
http://www.panix.com/~paleodiet
http://www.toon.org/~cadis
http://www.metabolicdiet.com
http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com
http://www.lowcarbsuccess.net/
http://www.holdthetoast.com

Atkins Diet Related Links:

http://tom.cuy.net/atkins
http://www.lowcarb.com/
http://www.lowcarb.org

Carbohydrate Counters:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl
The USDA nutritional database - Carb counts on everything!
Just type in what it is you are looking for.
(Cream, eggs, squash).
http://www.immuneweb.org/lowcarb/

Hidden Carbohydrates:

http://wilstar.com/lowcarb/hiddencarbs.htm

Fiber:

http://www.lowcarb.org/fiber_1.html
http://www.lowcarb.org/fiber_2.html

Medical Research and Articles:

http://lowcarb.org
http://www.lowcarbsuccess.net/
http://www.lowcarb.org/josh_yelon/lowcarb_med.html
http://www.stumptuous.com/fat.html
http://www.nejm.org/content/1997/0337/0021/1491.asp
http://www.syndicomm.com/lowfat.html
http://medtstgo.ucdavis.edu/endo/lecture/metlipid.htm
http://www.omen.com/adipos.html
http://commodore.perry.pps.pgh.pa.us/~odonnell/ir1.html
http://www.lowcarb.org/ketosis.html
http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa062600a.htm
http://www.lowcarb.ca/lowcarb.html

If you have lost 30 lbs and kept it off for a year, please contact the
National Weight Loss Registry at 800-606-6927 or on the Internet at
www.wpic.pitt.edu/nwcr.

Support:

http://atkinsfriends.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Atkins-A-WayOfLife
http://forum.lowcarber.org
http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
http://lowcarb.org/forums

Links for Diabetics:

http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/LC-DIABETES.html
http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/
http://commodore.perry.pps.pgh.pa.us/~odonnell/ir1.html
http://www.survivediabetes.com/

PCOS and the Low-Carb Diet:

http://www.netcolony.com/members/pcolc/pcolc.html
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000901/1079.html
http://www.soulcysters.com
http://www.pcosupport.org/

Links for Vegetarians:

http://www.immuneweb.org/lowcarb/

Low-carb Cooking:

http://www.camacdonald.com/lc/cookbookdownload.html
http://members.aol.com/alexhaas/index.htm
http://www.cest-bon.com/
http://members.aol.com/cooklocarb/frames.html
http://www.lowcarb.org/lynschoc.html
http://www.ourlittlecorner.com/indxrecs.htp
http://www.titanic.kn-bremen.de/indexusa.html
http://members.aol.com/Terranova0/Kitchen.index.html
http://www.e-clipse.com/soy/recipes.htm
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Resort/1700/
http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/kathyslc/Page4.html
http://www.egroups.com/group/low-carb-recipe-exchange/
http://members.aol.com/lowcarbs/lowcarblist/recipes.htm
http://members.aol.com/rowanmoon/recipe.html
http://www.enteract.com/~jldavid/lowcarb/cooking/index.html
http://www.blackdirt.net/lowcarb/recipes.html
http://www.lowcarbweb.com/recipe.htm
http://www.locarbliving.com/recipeswap.html
http://www.atkinsdiethelp.com/recipes.htm
http://photopics.com/lowcarb.html
http://www.lowcarbcafe.com/
http://www.titanic.kn-bremen.de/idxrec.html
http://207.86.247.56/lowcarb/recipes.html
http://members.tripod.com/~PsyllieSnax/
http://recipes.alastra.com/
http://www.laguna2001.com/barbo/recipe/archive.pl
http://communities.msn.com/webjake
http://www.ptyza.com/pamstuff/lowcook.htm

Low-carb Shopping:

http://members.tripod.com/~PsyllieSnax/
http://www.dietdepot.com/
http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/
http://www.carbsmart.com/
http://www.expertfoods.com/
http://www.greatfood.com/products/grtfood/davinci/html/home.htm
http://www.jerkyusa.com/
http://www.morico.com/
http://www.netrition.com/
http://www.splenda.com/cgi-bin/order2?source=lifescan
http://www.sugarfreemarket.com/
http://www.lowcarb.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=order2.html/SID=9861622302
http://www.low-carb.com/
http://www.malthome.com/Splenda/
http://www.lowcarbnexus.com
http://www.lowcarbcentre.com/

Exercise and Nutrition:

http://people.delphi.com/theenforcer/nutritn.htm
http://www.voicenet.com/~petrizzi/fitness/ckdcalc.html
http://www.planetkc.com/exrx/Home.html

Weight Training:

http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
http://www.solid.net/~homerc/
http://www.planetkc.com/exrx/Exercise.html
http://www.allprotraining.com/

Body Fat Calculators:

http://www.biofitness.com/bodyfat.html
http://my.webmd.com/table_of_contents

Plateau Busters:

http://www.lowcarb.org/plateaus.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/LowcarbingDream/meat.html
http://www.lowcarb.org/stillman.html

Stacking:

http://www.lowcarb.org/eca1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/LowcarbingDream/ECA.html

Water:

http://www.classicx.com/html/2super.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/LowcarbingDream/water.html
http://www.lowcarb.org/water1.html

Inspirational Pages (Links to LC Homes pages):

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=872255&a=6346614
http://www.devtex.net/graham/lc.html
http://climate.geog.udel.edu/~rawlins/training.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apowell/abs.htm
http://www.bodytrends.com/article.htm
http://www.ourlittlecorner.com/
http://www.split.com/fat/
http://members.aol.com/Terranova0/diet.index.html
http://www.conniems.com

Misc. LC Diet Related Links:

http://www.lowcarblosers.com
http://www.lowcarb.ca
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/
http://www.brachman.com/dietnews.htm
http://www.painpals.com/txlowcarb/index.html
http://www.split.com/fat/
http://people.delphi.com/elizjack/index.html
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=locho&list
http://member.aol.com/JepRoostr1/index.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/LowcarbingDream/
http://www.lowcarb.org/
http://tom.cuy.net/atkins/
http://www.mountain-inter.net/~magnuson/
http://dc.jones.com/~bgmiller/lowcarb.htm
http://waltonfeed.com/omega/default.htm
http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/low_carbohydrate_dieting
http://lowcarb.bizland.com/LC.html
http://www.ptyza.com/pamstuff/lowc-toc.htm
http://www.blackcatsystems.com/software/healthtracker.html
http://www.blackcatsystems.com/software/diet.html


There is a lot of information out there, but if you cannot
find what you are looking for we are always here! This is
a great newsgroup for support, recipes and sharing information!

*Special appreciation to:
Debby Padilla for her original contribution to this list.
Desiree for her list of links.
Debra Long for the latest version.
Barbara Ashley for her effort to maintain it.
ConnieMS for keeping the post current & posting it daily for so long.


Oh, and here is a new site for those of you who don't want to
read the FAQ:

http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/no-faq.htm

If you have a link that you think should be listed here, please
e-mail it to me for consideration. Also, If you find that one
of the links has moved or no longer exists please e-mail me with
the pertinent information. This post is a team effort and we
need you to make it work.

--
Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.


Connie
************************************************** ***
My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.

[Anne Lurie]

The URL for the FAQ for this newsgroup on a daily basis -- look for the
header that says "FAQ"!

http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm
http://home.comcast.net/~agross/asdlc/

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

"TavliGal" wrote:

> Hi Connie, could you please post the Faq URL for me. I wasn't aware there
was one. Thanks
> Monica

[Moo]

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:46:08 -0700, "Mark.net" >
wrote:

>
>"Steven C (Doktersteve)" > wrote in message
>news:kThVb.10968$QX4.2126@clgrps13...
>>
>> - Take a nutritional supplement (multi vitamin), and a good one at that.
>You
>> can get a decent 3 month supply for about $7 American at Wal-Mart. Get a
>> good brand, not a brand like equate (Wal-Mart house brand), because better
>> brands are more complete in most cases.
>>
>
>Does this info come from some actual study or is it just your opinion?
>
>Mark.
>

Hey, this is usenet, where facts are optional.

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

I guess I missed the charter.
did not mean to offend anyone.

thanks.

Steve.


"Steven C (Doktersteve)" > wrote in message
news:kThVb.10968$QX4.2126@clgrps13...
> Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
> asked every two weeks, over and over:
>
> - Stay under 20g carbs and be strict about it. Do not think that you can
eat
> 25 or 30, or whatever. Stay UNDER 20g.
>
> - Eat lots of green veggies. Most of your carbs should come from fiber
> filled green vegetables. The rest of the carbs will come from trace
amounts
> of carbs in things like cheese, eggs, and cured meats.
>
> - Try and avoid overly processed and cured meats because they contain lots
> of sodium and nitrates, which aren't good to begin with, but which can
make
> you retain water and seemingly "stall"
>
> - Take psyllium husk for fiber supplements if you don't feel "regular"
>
> - Avoid caffeine.
>
> - Avoid aspartame if you can, just to be on the safe side.
>
> - Avoid too many saturated fats. Try and go with mono and poly saturates,
> they are healthier forms of fat.
>
> - Take a nutritional supplement (multi vitamin), and a good one at that.
You
> can get a decent 3 month supply for about $7 American at Wal-Mart. Get a
> good brand, not a brand like equate (Wal-Mart house brand), because better
> brands are more complete in most cases.
>
> - Get 7-8 hours of sleep regularly. You cannot "catch up" on sleep, so if
> you cant get sleep, cut your losses and move on towards the next solid
block
> you can get sleep wise.
>
> - Avoid weighing yourself all the time, this just creates frustration if
you
> don't see the scale move as much as you wish it would.
>
> - Avoid alcohol.
>
> - Avoid sugar alcohols (malitol, sucralose, et all)
>
> - Avoid special "low carb" formulated foods. You can try these later on,
but
> induction is meant to be for cleaning your system out and breaking these
> food addictions that you can get in "low carb" Atkins advantage type bar
> form.
>
> The following things are your friends.
> - Peanut butter.
> - Pork Rinds are an excellent substitute for crackers.
> - Splenda is great.
> - Sugar free Jell-O
> - Beef Jerky
> - Eggs
> - Cottage Cheese
> - Sunflower Seeds
> - Peanuts (blanched, plain white)
>
> - Carb blockers DO NOT WORK. THEY DO NOT WORK.
>
> - Exercise can be as simple as walking a flight of stairs instead of using
> the elevator.
>
> - Ketostix are completely UNNECESSARY, and if you get them and they don't
> change color, you may still very well be in ketosis, so don't sweat it.
>
> - Your family may not be supportive, but explain your WOE to them and see
> what happens.
>
> - Use these websites
> - www.fitday.com
> - www.atkins.com
>
> - Come here for support, but don't get offended if you get attacked for
> asking something for the 12343524645000563493th time.
>
> - Search Usenet for answers at http://groups.google.com
>
>
>
>

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

"Martha Gallagher" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jean M. wrote:
>
> > "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Jean M." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
> > >>

*SNIP*

>
> Or cottage cheese. The list doesn't track atkins at all well. Why not
> highlight the foods that are supposed to form the heart of Atkins, rather
> than the liminal, "well, a little of this won't hurt you" foods?

I do love cottage cheese.
I do not see why so many people dislike it.

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
.. .
> JC Der Koenig > wrote:
>
> > There's no need to avoid caffeine.
>
> thank dog.

I personally sucked back about 5 diet colas a day during induction.
I posted that mainly because some people will see spikes because of
caffeine, it effects everyone differently.

[Mad Witch]

Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote :

>
> "Martha Gallagher" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jean M. wrote:
>>
>> > "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >"Jean M." > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > >> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
>> > >>
>
> *SNIP*
>
>>
>> Or cottage cheese. The list doesn't track atkins at all well. Why not
>> highlight the foods that are supposed to form the heart of Atkins,
>> rather than the liminal, "well, a little of this won't hurt you"
>> foods?
>
> I do love cottage cheese.
> I do not see why so many people dislike it.
>

I love it too. It's not a low carb food. I don't eat it any more.

HTH
X
MW

[Frank Lynch]

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 07:38:24 GMT, in a clarity of expression
resembling Cicero, "TavliGal" > wrote:

>--
>______________________________________
>Started 01/20/04
>362/343/250
>______________________________________
>"The true measure of a man is how he treats
>someone who can do him absolutely no good."
> - Samuel Johnson, (1709-1784)

TavliGal, I need to nip your sigfile in the bud. There's no evidence
that Johnson ever said it... It's not in his works, letters, or bios
about him. It's apocryphal... Please see
http://www.samueljohnson.com/apocryph.html#8

Thanks!

Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

"Mad Witch" > wrote in message
. 1.17...
> Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote :
>
> >
> > "Martha Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jean M. wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >"Jean M." > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> > >> "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" > wrote:
> >> > >>
> >
> > *SNIP*
> >
> >>
> >> Or cottage cheese. The list doesn't track atkins at all well. Why not
> >> highlight the foods that are supposed to form the heart of Atkins,
> >> rather than the liminal, "well, a little of this won't hurt you"
> >> foods?
> >
> > I do love cottage cheese.
> > I do not see why so many people dislike it.
> >
>
> I love it too. It's not a low carb food. I don't eat it any more.
>
> HTH
> X
> MW

Cottage cheese after induction is fine.
120g = 4g carbs.
that is pretty low carb.

It is also high in protein, and low in fat. Almost a perfect food for me as
I do bodybuilding now.

[TavliGal]

Frank Lynch wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 07:38:24 GMT, in a clarity of expression
>> resembling Cicero, "TavliGal" > wrote:
>>
>>> --
>>> ______________________________________
>>> Started 01/20/04
>>> 362/343/250
>>> ______________________________________
>>> "The true measure of a man is how he treats
>>> someone who can do him absolutely no good."
>>> - Samuel Johnson, (1709-1784)
>>
>> TavliGal, I need to nip your sigfile in the bud. There's no evidence
>> that Johnson ever said it... It's not in his works, letters, or bios
>> about him. It's apocryphal... Please see
>> http://www.samueljohnson.com/apocryph.html#8
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Frank Lynch
>> The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
>> http://www.samueljohnson.com/

Hmm, really? I found this quote on a website of quotes ( I think) just over
a year ago. I'll try and find it again and then you can send them an email.
:)
I'll post back.
Monica
--
______________________________________
Started 01/20/04
362/342/250
______________________________________
"The true measure of a man is how he treats
someone who can do him absolutely no good."
- Samuel Johnson, (1709-1784)


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[Mad Witch]

Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote :

>
> "Mad Witch" > wrote in message
> . 1.17...
>> Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote :
>>

>>
>> I love it too. It's not a low carb food. I don't eat it any more.
>>
>> HTH
>> X
>> MW
>
> Cottage cheese after induction is fine.
> 120g = 4g carbs.
> that is pretty low carb.
>
> It is also high in protein, and low in fat. Almost a perfect food for
> me as I do bodybuilding now.
>
>
>

OK, you count that low carb I don't, and the ratio of Protien to fat to
carbs is such that it would be easy to over eat on it. It's not a cheese
that I'd eat unless I was portioning it out to the gram, and to be honest
there are cheeses that I can eat for lower carb that taste just as good.
Your average low carber is not a body builder and so does not want to eat
as much protein as you do. Your *general rules of induction* aren't
general. They are what worked for you. Fine. My milage varies.

X
MW

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

"Mad Witch" > wrote in message
.17...
> Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote :
>
> >
> > "Mad Witch" > wrote in message
> > . 1.17...
> >> Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote :
> >>
>
> >>
> >> I love it too. It's not a low carb food. I don't eat it any more.
> >>
> >> HTH
> >> X
> >> MW
> >
> > Cottage cheese after induction is fine.
> > 120g = 4g carbs.
> > that is pretty low carb.
> >
> > It is also high in protein, and low in fat. Almost a perfect food for
> > me as I do bodybuilding now.
> >
> >
> >
>
> OK, you count that low carb I don't, and the ratio of Protien to fat to
> carbs is such that it would be easy to over eat on it. It's not a cheese
> that I'd eat unless I was portioning it out to the gram, and to be honest
> there are cheeses that I can eat for lower carb that taste just as good.
> Your average low carber is not a body builder and so does not want to eat
> as much protein as you do. Your *general rules of induction* aren't
> general. They are what worked for you. Fine. My milage varies.
>
> X
> MW

Really, no need to get defensive. :-)
Someone actually suggested cottage cheese to me in this group, this was way
back in November before I was bodybuilding and doing the hard/long cardio.

What I think is great about cottage cheese is that (at least where I come
from) it comes in small containers that are 240g each, so you know there are
pretty much exactly 8g carbs in 1 container.
It is also very low on the GI, so it doesn't mess with most people's blood
sugar levels.

Anyhow, you are probably right on the protein intake comment. I try and go
1-1.5g per lb of mass for me, and most people doing LC want to watch that,
lest they start to eat too much protein with may (or may not) cause long
term liver/kidney damage if water intake is not very high.

Steve.

[scrapper]

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 03:17:36 GMT, "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)"
> wrote:

>Here are some general rules to follow during induction that seem to get
>asked every two weeks, over and over:
>

<snip>

Don't think that taking the time to write that whole thing is going to
stop people from asking every two weeks.

[Martha Gallagher]

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:

>
> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > JC Der Koenig > wrote:
> >
> > > There's no need to avoid caffeine.
> >
> > thank dog.
>
> I personally sucked back about 5 diet colas a day during induction.
> I posted that mainly because some people will see spikes because of
> caffeine, it effects everyone differently.
>

I don't know what you mean about seeing spikes because of caffeine (was
that the episode where Buffy worked at a coffee house?), but I definitely
agree that caffeine's effects vary. I gained 5 lbs that I'm just now
getting off when I gave it up.

Martha

--
Begin where you are - but don't end there.

[Steven C \(Doktersteve\)]

"Martha Gallagher" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:
>
> >
> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > > JC Der Koenig > wrote:
> > >
> > > > There's no need to avoid caffeine.
> > >
> > > thank dog.
> >
> > I personally sucked back about 5 diet colas a day during induction.
> > I posted that mainly because some people will see spikes because of
> > caffeine, it effects everyone differently.
> >
>
> I don't know what you mean about seeing spikes because of caffeine (was
> that the episode where Buffy worked at a coffee house?), but I definitely
> agree that caffeine's effects vary. I gained 5 lbs that I'm just now
> getting off when I gave it up.
>
> Martha
>

For some people, drinking caffeine gives the same effect as refined carbs -
a blood glucose spike, or the feeling of one.

[Martha Gallagher]

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:

>
> "Martha Gallagher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I personally sucked back about 5 diet colas a day during induction.
> > > I posted that mainly because some people will see spikes because of
> > > caffeine, it effects everyone differently.
> > >
> >
> > I don't know what you mean about seeing spikes because of caffeine (was
> > that the episode where Buffy worked at a coffee house?), but I definitely
> > agree that caffeine's effects vary. I gained 5 lbs that I'm just now
> > getting off when I gave it up.
> >
>
> For some people, drinking caffeine gives the same effect as refined carbs -
> a blood glucose spike, or the feeling of one.
>

That's interesting. I used to have a lifetime* >4 liters/day habit but I
never noticed this. 'Course I was too busy jonesing for my next fix. <g>

Martha

*well, since I was able to open the bottles myself, anyway.


--
Begin where you are - but don't end there.

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

DJ Delorie > wrote:

> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) writes:
> > no, they aren't. nuts and seeds are not allowed on induction.
>
> I wish they weren't, but at least the 1997 DANDR has a loophole which
> allows you to make up the 20g with pretty much any food you want, and
> nuts and seeds are explicitly listed as options there. It's on page
> 93, the page before the allowed foods list.

*shrug* they're not allowed on the website, and they're not allowed in
the current version of the book. it's not 1997 any longer.

> Folks, it's only two weeks. Suck it up and be strict about it, prove
> to yourself that YOU control your eating habits. After that you can
> experiment with other foods and see what works for you.

a thousand times yes to this. if you can't manage two weeks, you aren't
going to get very far at all. suck it up, indeed.

[DJ Delorie]

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) writes:
> *shrug* they're not allowed on the website, and they're not allowed
> in the current version of the book. it's not 1997 any longer.

True, but with all this talk about libraries and book borrowing, you
just know some newbie is going to get the 1997 edition, follow it
correctly, and still be confused when they ask about it here.

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

DJ Delorie > wrote:

> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) writes:
> > *shrug* they're not allowed on the website, and they're not allowed
> > in the current version of the book. it's not 1997 any longer.
>
> True, but with all this talk about libraries and book borrowing, you
> just know some newbie is going to get the 1997 edition, follow it
> correctly, and still be confused when they ask about it here.

you've got me there, DJ :)

and, in fact, people read the *current* edition of the book and still
come here asking confused questions. so i guess it doesn't really
matter at all.

[TavliGal]

Frank Lynch wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 07:38:24 GMT, in a clarity of expression
>> resembling Cicero, "TavliGal" > wrote:
>>
>>> --
>>> ______________________________________
>>> Started 01/20/04
>>> 362/343/250
>>> ______________________________________
>>> "The true measure of a man is how he treats
>>> someone who can do him absolutely no good."
>>> - Samuel Johnson, (1709-1784)
>>
>> TavliGal, I need to nip your sigfile in the bud. There's no evidence
>> that Johnson ever said it... It's not in his works, letters, or bios
>> about him. It's apocryphal... Please see
>> http://www.samueljohnson.com/apocryph.html#8
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Frank Lynch
>> The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
>> http://www.samueljohnson.com/

HI again Frank,
I did check out that site you mentioned and took out Johnsons name from the
quote. I tried finding that site I got it from with no luck. Just to long
ago for me to find the right one.
Anyhow, thanks for setting me straight.
Monica.--
______________________________________
Started 01/20/04
362/342/250
______________________________________
"The true measure of a man is how he treats
someone who can do him absolutely no good."
- Unknown?


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[John in Vegas]

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote in message >...
> Steven C (Doktersteve) > wrote:
>
> > Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
> > 2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
> >
> > If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.
>
> no, they aren't. nuts and seeds are not allowed on induction.


That isn't true. There is a preliminary part of Induction that lasts 2
weeks then after 2 weeks you can begin adding nuts, seeds, and their
butters to your diet, always being sure to keep track of the carbs
they contain. This phase is also called Induction, as described in
Atkins NDR. The next phase post Industion is called Ongoing Weight
Loss, followed by Pre Maintenance, then Maintenance. So are they
allowed on Induction? Yes. Are they a staple food item? No. Are they a
snack? A treat? Yes.
I do use peanut butter to curb a craving for something that would
get me in trouble. I do eat it with a low glycemic vegetable called
celery to make it a bit better, and I try and keep the serving to a
Tablespoon at most. The fat content alone keeps the hunger away until
I get to the next meal. I am aware of the high calorie count so it is
not a thing I do routinely. I take responsibility for all my food
choices, as anyone should.
Being sensible about adding nuts and seeds to one's diet is the
responsible thing. Problem is that you have to pay very close
attention to food portions on labels. Many bags of seeds offer you 2.5
ounces just like described above, and yet when you look at the
servings they say 1 ounce is a serving and there are 2.5 servings in
that bag. Hard to just pick out 1 ounce of sunflower seeds and set the
rest down. Food suppliers use deceptive practices all the time to make
their products look better, and more attractive to the unwary
consumer.
Plus you also have to consider how many of the carbs listed are
fiber and what is turned into glucose. Sunflowers seeds are high in
fiber and that helps keep you regular and makes that number of carbs
you have to count look a lot less intimidating. Trust me when I say
that eating anything high in fiber is good for you on a low carb diet.
You will go from constipated to the other extreme overnight just by
having something with a good amount of fiber. I would rather take the
supplements and keep things nice and regulated than jump from extreme
to extreme anymore, lol. Hope this info helps, and as always the legal
disclaimer YMMV.

[John in Vegas]

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote in message >...
> Steven C (Doktersteve) > wrote:
>
> > Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
> > 2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
> >
> > If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.
>
> no, they aren't. nuts and seeds are not allowed on induction.


That isn't true. There is a preliminary part of Induction that lasts 2
weeks then after 2 weeks you can begin adding nuts, seeds, and their
butters to your diet, always being sure to keep track of the carbs
they contain. This phase is also called Induction, as described in
Atkins NDR. The next phase post Industion is called Ongoing Weight
Loss, followed by Pre Maintenance, then Maintenance. So are they
allowed on Induction? Yes. Are they a staple food item? No. Are they a
snack? A treat? Yes.
I do use peanut butter to curb a craving for something that would
get me in trouble. I do eat it with a low glycemic vegetable called
celery to make it a bit better, and I try and keep the serving to a
Tablespoon at most. The fat content alone keeps the hunger away until
I get to the next meal. I am aware of the high calorie count so it is
not a thing I do routinely. I take responsibility for all my food
choices, as anyone should.
Being sensible about adding nuts and seeds to one's diet is the
responsible thing. Problem is that you have to pay very close
attention to food portions on labels. Many bags of seeds offer you 2.5
ounces just like described above, and yet when you look at the
servings they say 1 ounce is a serving and there are 2.5 servings in
that bag. Hard to just pick out 1 ounce of sunflower seeds and set the
rest down. Food suppliers use deceptive practices all the time to make
their products look better, and more attractive to the unwary
consumer.
Plus you also have to consider how many of the carbs listed are
fiber and what is turned into glucose. Sunflowers seeds are high in
fiber and that helps keep you regular and makes that number of carbs
you have to count look a lot less intimidating. Trust me when I say
that eating anything high in fiber is good for you on a low carb diet.
You will go from constipated to the other extreme overnight just by
having something with a good amount of fiber. I would rather take the
supplements and keep things nice and regulated than jump from extreme
to extreme anymore, lol. Hope this info helps, and as always the legal
disclaimer YMMV.

[Jaime]

On 10 Feb 2004 01:01:22 -0800, (John in Vegas)
wrote:


>That isn't true. There is a preliminary part of Induction that lasts 2
>weeks then after 2 weeks you can begin adding nuts, seeds, and their
>butters to your diet, always being sure to keep track of the carbs
>they contain. This phase is also called Induction, as described in
>Atkins NDR. The next phase post Industion is called Ongoing Weight
>Loss, followed by Pre Maintenance, then Maintenance.


What version of DANDR are you reading? I only ever saw Induction, OWL
and Maintenance.



> So are they
>allowed on Induction? Yes.


Reread the Induction foodlists please. Nuts and seeds are NOT allowed
on Induction and you are going to confuse ppl with this.

[Jeri]

"John in Vegas" > wrote in message
om
> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote in message
> >...
>> Steven C (Doktersteve) > wrote:
>>
>>> Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
>>> 2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
>>>
>>> If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.
>>
>> no, they aren't. nuts and seeds are not allowed on induction.
>
> That isn't true. There is a preliminary part of Induction that lasts 2
> weeks then after 2 weeks you can begin adding nuts, seeds, and their
> butters to your diet, always being sure to keep track of the carbs
> they contain. This phase is also called Induction, as described in
> Atkins NDR. The next phase post Industion is called Ongoing Weight
> Loss, followed by Pre Maintenance, then Maintenance.
<snip>

Induction is 2 weeks which includes following a list of allowable foods and
avoiding any foods which are not on the list. Nuts are not on that list. You
may stay on induction for longer than 2 weeks but if you add nuts you are no
longer in induction you've gone on to the OWL phase. You may be keeping your
carbs at induction level but you are not in induction.
--
Jeri
265/189/120
Atkins since 11/5/01
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

[Frank Lynch]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 04:19:29 GMT, in a clarity of expression
resembling Cicero, "TavliGal" > wrote:

>HI again Frank,
>I did check out that site you mentioned and took out Johnsons name from the
>quote. I tried finding that site I got it from with no luck. Just to long
>ago for me to find the right one.
>Anyhow, thanks for setting me straight.
>Monica.--

No problem. YOu weren't alone, I assure you...

Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

John in Vegas > wrote:

> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> > Steven C (Doktersteve) > wrote:
> >
> > > Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
> > > 2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
> > >
> > > If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.
> >
> > no, they aren't. nuts and seeds are not allowed on induction.
>
>
> That isn't true.

yes, it is.

but thanks for playing!

[John in Vegas]

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote in message >...
> John in Vegas > wrote:
>
> > (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> > > Steven C (Doktersteve) > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, 2.5 oz of peanuts is 20g carbs.
> > > > 2.5 oz of sunflower seeds is 16g carbs.
> > > >
> > > > If you need a snack and it is an emergency, these are acceptable.
> > >
> > > no, they aren't. nuts and seeds are not allowed on induction.
> >
> >
> > That isn't true.
>
> yes, it is.
>
> but thanks for playing!

I have proof from The Man himself! I have the latest copy of the NDR
and it says on page 123 in rules for induction:
4. ..."Do not eat nuts or seeds in the first two weeks." [This I never
contradicted. I even mentioned that you should not eat them during
this time, but only after this time whether you stay on Induction or
go into Ongoing Weight Loss. Has anyone here ever gone that quickly
into OWL? So of course you will still be in Induction well beyond,
even months beyond this first two weeks. Read on.]

In the Dr Atkins' Quick and Easy New Diet Cookbook published as a
companion to the 2004 edition of the book, in the back of the book
under Acceptable Foods (broken down by phase) for OWL (Ongoing Weight
Loss) page 213 "Nuts and Seeds" there is an asterisk which directs you
to this:
"If you stay on Induction more than 2 weeks, you can add nuts and
seeds back into your daily total of 20 grams of Net Carbs."

Atkins always assumed that most of his patients could remain on
Induction for long periods of time and would return to Induction for
varying lengths of time throughout their lives. He also decided that
Induction should last a minimum of 2 weeks before the patient should
go on to other phases. His phrasing seems to assume this rare
occurance of immediate transition, but in acknowledging that Induction
not only can, but very commonly does go beyond 2 weeks and that Nuts
and Seeds can become a part of your diet at that time validates what I
said. If you want to be a stickler for semantics, that is fine, but
just because after 2 weeks someone adds nuts and seeds into their diet
with Atkins' blessing does not mean they are now in OWL.
OWL is not only about adding foods that were restricted before, it is
also increasing your Carb intake to find your CCLL which Induction
does not do. Likewise, while Induction does call for a limited diet
that removes many things, one of the hallmarks of the phase is staying
at or below 20g of carbs per day. I do not know about the website or
what it says because I am perfectly satisfied with his books, but the
books still approve of eating these items after 2 weeks no matter what
phase you are in, *including Induction*. Perhaps we can agree that
when adding nuts and seeds after 2 weeks and remaining on Induction
qualifies as a mixing of the two phases of Induction and OWL which has
no specific name.

Thank you for playing.

Now, if you can directly quote from the NDR bible like I have that
proves that someone eating nuts and seeds while staying on Induction
beyond 2 weeks is violating the Atkins WOE then I am all eyes/ears.

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

John in Vegas > wrote:

> I have proof from The Man himself! I have the latest copy of the NDR
> and it says on page 123 in rules for induction:
> 4. ..."Do not eat nuts or seeds in the first two weeks."

induction involves a specific set of rules. just because you're eating
20g of carbs or less doesn't mean you're doing induction.

you're half right, and you can keep babbling about it if it makes you
happy.

[John in Vegas]

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote in message >...
> John in Vegas > wrote:
>
> > I have proof from The Man himself! I have the latest copy of the NDR
> > and it says on page 123 in rules for induction:
> > 4. ..."Do not eat nuts or seeds in the first two weeks."
>
> induction involves a specific set of rules. just because you're eating
> 20g of carbs or less doesn't mean you're doing induction.
>
> you're half right, and you can keep babbling about it if it makes you
> happy.

funny.. you are educating the public, but I am just babbling.. thank
you for pointing that out. Guess we should all bow to your infinite
wisdom and shut the hell up and let you do all the pontificating you
desire. I was not looking for an argument and was wanting friendship,
but some people just can't let it happen; they have to go looking for
a fight. Guess I ought to scratch you off my list of potentials
friends then? or are you going to stop bashing and let something good
happen? Up to you. You make JC look better and better, IMO. No offense
meant to you JC.

[JC Der Koenig]

"John in Vegas" > wrote in message
om...
> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote in message
>...
> > John in Vegas > wrote:
> >
> > > I have proof from The Man himself! I have the latest copy of the NDR
> > > and it says on page 123 in rules for induction:
> > > 4. ..."Do not eat nuts or seeds in the first two weeks."
> >
> > induction involves a specific set of rules. just because you're eating
> > 20g of carbs or less doesn't mean you're doing induction.
> >
> > you're half right, and you can keep babbling about it if it makes you
> > happy.
>
> funny.. you are educating the public, but I am just babbling.. thank
> you for pointing that out. Guess we should all bow to your infinite
> wisdom and shut the hell up and let you do all the pontificating you
> desire. I was not looking for an argument and was wanting friendship,
> but some people just can't let it happen; they have to go looking for
> a fight. Guess I ought to scratch you off my list of potentials
> friends then? or are you going to stop bashing and let something good
> happen? Up to you. You make JC look better and better, IMO. No offense
> meant to you JC.


No offense taken.

;-)

[Jean M.]

(John in Vegas) wrote:

>> induction involves a specific set of rules. just because you're eating
>> 20g of carbs or less doesn't mean you're doing induction.

I like this. It sums things up nicely.

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

Jean M. > wrote:

> (John in Vegas) wrote:
>
> >> induction involves a specific set of rules. just because you're eating
> >> 20g of carbs or less doesn't mean you're doing induction.
>
> I like this. It sums things up nicely.

thank you. John in Vegas didn't write it; i did.

:)