Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...way_the_poison

Packing Away The Poison
Genetic mutation allows Hudson River fish to adapt to PCBs, Dioxins
2/17/2011

Some fish in New York’s Hudson River have become "resistant" to
several of the waterway’s more toxic pollutants. Instead of getting
sick from dioxins and related compounds including some polychlorinated
biphenyls, Atlantic tomcod harmlessly store these poisons in fat, a
new study finds.

But what’s good for this bottom-dwelling species could be bad for
those feeding on it, says Isaac Wirgin of the New York University
School of Medicine’s Institute of Environmental Medicine in Tuxedo.
Each bite of tomcod that a predator takes, he explains, will move a
potent dose of toxic chemicals up the food chain — eventually into
species that could end up on home dinner tables.

From 1947 to 1976, two General Electric manufacturing plants along the
Hudson River produced PCBs for a range of uses, including as
insulating fluids in electrical transformers. Over the years, PCB and
dioxin levels in the livers of the Hudson’s tomcod rose to become
“among the highest known in nature,” Wirgin and his colleagues note
online February 17 in Science. Because these fish don’t detoxify PCBs,
Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such
hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports
that the tomcod’s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene.
The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to
unleash the pollutants’ toxicity.

All vertebrates contain molecules in their cells that will bind to
dioxins and related compounds. Indeed, these proteins — aryl
hydrocarbon receptors, or AHRs — are often referred to as dioxin
receptors. Once these poisons diffuse into an exposed cell, each
molecule can mate with a receptor and together they eventually pick up
a third molecule. This trio can then dock with select segments of DNA
in the cell’s nucleus to inappropriately turn on genes that can poison
the host animal.

The tomcod actually has two types of AHRs, with AHR-2 offering the
most effective binding to dioxin-like pollutants. But one naturally
occurring AHR-2 variant, the result of a gene mutation, proves a very
poor mate, Wirgin’s team has found. It takes five times more of the
pollutants to get substantial binding than is needed with the
conventional AHR-2.

In local rivers relatively free of dioxins and PCBs, 95 percent of
tomcod possess AHR-2 only in the conventional form. But in the PCB-
rich Hudson, Wirgin’s group finds, the only kind of AHR-2 protein in
99 percent of tomcod is the poorly binding variant.

The mutant receptor appears to have evolved long ago and to be widely
dispersed. But in the Hudson, fish with the gene to make the mutant
receptor have thrived, while those without it have died out ...

-----

For more on POPs & Insulin Resistance, see
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854721/

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/6/2011 9:05 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
jay wrote:

Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such
hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports
that the tomcod’s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene.
The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to
unleash the pollutants’ toxicity.

Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too.
Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore.

There was one incidence of a public report stating that the early
tests for DDT didn't distinguish between DDT and PCB's, and that's
what led to the entire "silent spring" debacle.

And of course what people miss completely is that PCB's were
outlawed at the same time that DDT was, so the effect on birds
could have come from either, or both, being reduced. I doubt that
anyone will ever own up to this mjor error after so many years
of condemning DDT.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted HudsonRiver
 

jay wrote:

Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such
hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports
that the tomcod’s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene.
The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to
unleash the pollutants’ toxicity.

Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too.
Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/6/2011 9:05 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
jay wrote:

Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such
hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports
that the tomcod¹s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene.
The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to
unleash the pollutants¹ toxicity.

Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too.
Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore.

There was one incidence of a public report stating that the early
tests for DDT didn't distinguish between DDT and PCB's, and that's
what led to the entire "silent spring" debacle.

And of course what people miss completely is that PCB's were
outlawed at the same time that DDT was, so the effect on birds
could have come from either, or both, being reduced. I doubt that
anyone will ever own up to this mjor error after so many years
of condemning DDT.

Why aren't you over with the social scientists, or did they send you
over here? DDT, PCB, Dioxin, PBDE among others are called "persistent
organic pollutants". Because they don't break down. They are even found
in penguins, although there hasn't been a mosquito problem in Antarctica
for years. DDT hasn't been outlawed, it has been restricted. Thing is,
if you keep using the same poison, the little buggers build-up a
resistance. And don't you worry about the makers of biocides, twice as
much is being produced today, than back when Rachel Carson published
"Silent Spring". It's all bad ****.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/7/2011 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/6/2011 9:05 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
jay wrote:

Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such
hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports
that the tomcod¹s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene.
The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to
unleash the pollutants¹ toxicity.

Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too.
Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore.

There was one incidence of a public report stating that the early
tests for DDT didn't distinguish between DDT and PCB's, and that's
what led to the entire "silent spring" debacle.

And of course what people miss completely is that PCB's were
outlawed at the same time that DDT was, so the effect on birds
could have come from either, or both, being reduced. I doubt that
anyone will ever own up to this mjor error after so many years
of condemning DDT.

Why aren't you over with the social scientists, or did they send you
over here?

Billy, I've had these discussions before in a.s.d. and I've been here
more than a year discussing diabetes as well as the (mis)behavior of
the local gentry. So what's with the smart aleck comment?

DDT, PCB, Dioxin, PBDE among others are called "persistent
organic pollutants". Because they don't break down.

They don't seem to break down in nature is different from they don't
break down. Since there is no accurate measure of the persistence, we
only suspect things, but don't actually know them.

In the past few decades, the methods of destruction have grown. My
look at the problem some decades back revealed that the only method
available for destruction was passing the product through a molten
sodium bath. While the method works, it is today not the only successful
means for destroying the "persistent" chemicals you're complaining about
here.

They are even found
in penguins, although there hasn't been a mosquito problem in Antarctica
for years. DDT hasn't been outlawed, it has been restricted. Thing is,
if you keep using the same poison, the little buggers build-up a
resistance. And don't you worry about the makers of biocides, twice as
much is being produced today, than back when Rachel Carson published
"Silent Spring". It's all bad ****.

We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one
lifeform. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. In
the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a
reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to
infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a
resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and
other lifeforms, over time.

But it seems that humans are not developing an immunity to the
infections dispensed by mosquitoes.

All that's left is to select our victims. So far we've selected the
human being.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/7/2011 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/6/2011 9:05 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
jay wrote:

Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such
hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports
that the tomcod¹s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene.
The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to
unleash the pollutants¹ toxicity.

Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too.
Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore.

There was one incidence of a public report stating that the early
tests for DDT didn't distinguish between DDT and PCB's, and that's
what led to the entire "silent spring" debacle.

And of course what people miss completely is that PCB's were
outlawed at the same time that DDT was, so the effect on birds
could have come from either, or both, being reduced. I doubt that
anyone will ever own up to this mjor error after so many years
of condemning DDT.

Why aren't you over with the social scientists, or did they send you
over here?

Billy, I've had these discussions before in a.s.d. and I've been here
more than a year discussing diabetes as well as the (mis)behavior of
the local gentry. So what's with the smart aleck comment?

DDT, PCB, Dioxin, PBDE among others are called "persistent
organic pollutants". Because they don't break down.

They don't seem to break down in nature is different from they don't
break down. Since there is no accurate measure of the persistence, we
only suspect things, but don't actually know them.

In the past few decades, the methods of destruction have grown. My
look at the problem some decades back revealed that the only method
available for destruction was passing the product through a molten
sodium bath. While the method works, it is today not the only successful
means for destroying the "persistent" chemicals you're complaining about
here.

They are even found
in penguins, although there hasn't been a mosquito problem in Antarctica
for years. DDT hasn't been outlawed, it has been restricted. Thing is,
if you keep using the same poison, the little buggers build-up a
resistance. And don't you worry about the makers of biocides, twice as
much is being produced today, than back when Rachel Carson published
"Silent Spring". It's all bad ****.

We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one
lifeform. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. In
the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a
reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to
infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a
resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and
other lifeforms, over time.

But it seems that humans are not developing an immunity to the
infections dispensed by mosquitoes.

All that's left is to select our victims. So far we've selected the
human being.

Your premise is wrong. DDT hasn't been band, and how much will it cost
us to throw away one of our best defenses to the mosquito by allowing
the mosquito to quickly develop a resistance to DDT? DDT is used, but
selectively with other practices, and insecticides to control mosquitos.
Global warming will bring more mosquitos. Exposure to the bubonic plague
seems to have imbued some with resistance to HIV. Is this the price you
want us to pay, not to mention the further loss bio-diversity? You
really should look into a subject before you start pronouncing on it.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In alt.support.diabetes outsider wrote:

We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one
lifeform.

Because we haven't had the technology to be that specific, except by
lucky accident.

The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent.

Not nonexistent, and growing rapidly as genomics science and
technology develops.

In
the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a
reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to
infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a
resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and
other lifeforms, over time.

But it seems that humans are not developing an immunity to the
infections dispensed by mosquitoes.

You've not heard of sickle cell anemia?

--
Chris Malcolm

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/8/2011 1:35 AM, Billy wrote:

[...]

Exposure to the bubonic plague
seems to have imbued some with resistance to HIV. Is this the price you
want us to pay, not to mention the further loss bio-diversity? You
really should look into a subject before you start pronouncing on it.

I'm sorry, Billy, but you're mistaken. I urge you to read this book,
and perhaps other more advanced ones on the topic, and see how it
all fits together.

http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Making-Science-James-Gleick/dp/0143113453/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312810518&sr=8-1

For example:

Exposure to bubonic plague did not cause the modification to the
CR5 gene. Exposure to bubonic plague didn't lead the survivors
to procreate more. Survival only allowed those with the mutant
gene to represent a larger segment of a surviving population.

However you'll find that Mediterranean peoples today have a
smaller portion of the population with the mutant gene than
those in northern Europe.

Why would that be if the only survivors had the mutant gene?

Logic would dictate that there's more than one mechanism for
survival. But that's generally true for *any* mechanism where
that mechanism can fail. A study of parasites in general shows
how complex their needs are to survive generation after
generation.

I can't think of anything in the natural universe that's linear.
Yet your arguments have historically depended on linear attributes.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/8/2011 1:35 AM, Billy wrote:

[...]

Exposure to the bubonic plague
seems to have imbued some with resistance to HIV. Is this the price you
want us to pay, not to mention the further loss bio-diversity? You
really should look into a subject before you start pronouncing on it.

I'm sorry, Billy, but you're mistaken. I urge you to read this book,
and perhaps other more advanced ones on the topic, and see how it
all fits together.

And I suggest that you read the Encyclopedia Britannica to see what
knowledge looks like.

You seem to be better adapted to sound bites than presenting an argument.

Let's back up to,
"We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one
lifeform. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. In
the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a
reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to
infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a
resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and
other lifeforms, over time.

We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one
lifeform. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. In
the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a
reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to
infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a
resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and
other lifeforms, over time.

But it seems that humans are not developing an immunity to the
infections dispensed by mosquitoes.

All that's left is to select our victims. So far we've selected the
human being."
- outsider

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...o-combat-malar
ia
The scientists from the United States and South Africa said the
insecticide, banned decades ago in most of the world, should only be
used as a last resort in combating malaria.

The stance of the panel, led by a University of California
epidemiologist, is likely to be controversial with public health
officials. Use of DDT to fight malaria has been increasing since it was
endorsed in 2006 by the World Health Organization and the President's
Malaria Initiative, a U.S. aid program . . .

The scientists reported that DDT may have a variety of human health
effects, including reduced fertility, genital birth defects, breast
cancer, diabetes and damage to developing brains. Its metabolite, DDE,
can block male hormones.

In 2007, at least 3,950 tons of DDT were sprayed for mosquito control in
Africa and Asia, according to a report by the United Nations Environment
Programme.

In South Africa, about 60 to 80 grams is sprayed in each household per
year, Bouwman said.

A 2007 study on male fertility is the only published research so far.
Conducted in Limpopo, South Africa by de Jager and his colleagues, the
study found men in the sprayed homes had extremely high levels of DDT in
their blood and that their semen volume and sperm counts were low.

"Clearly, more research is neededŠbut in the meantime, DDT should really
be the last resort against malaria, rather than the first line of
defense," Eskenazi said.

The pesticide accumulates in body tissues, particularly breast milk, and
lingers in the environment for decades.

Since then [2001, Stockholm Convention], nine nations‹Ethiopia, South
Africa, India, Mauritius, Myanmar, Yemen, Uganda, Mozambique and
Swaziland‹notified the treaty's secretariat that they are using DDT.
Five others‹Zimbabwe, North Korea, Eritrea, Gambia, Namibia and
Zambia--also reportedly are using it, and six others, including China,
have reserved the right to begin using it, according to a January
Stockholm Convention report.

Mexico, the rest of Central America and parts of Africa have combated
malaria without DDT by using alternative methods, such as controlling
stagnant ponds where mosquitoes breed and using bed nets treated with
pyrethroid insecticides. But such efforts have been less successful in
other places, particularly South Africa.

"We have a whole host of mosquito species and more than one parasite.
The biology of the vectors is different and there is therefore no
one-method-fits-all strategy, as is the case in Central America,"
Bouwman said.
---

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims

On to the "Red Herring" of "Exposure to bubonic plague did not cause the
modification to the (sic) CR5 [CCR5 ] gene".

Plague didn't cause the mutation in CCR5, but it gave those who had it
an evolutionary advantage.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/4/l_104_05.html
Reading a chronological history, biologists traced the HIV-resistance
gene mutation back about 700 years. That was the time at which the Black
Death -- bubonic plague -- swept like a deadly scythe through Europe,
killing one-third of the population. Then, as now, there were
individuals who survived the lethal organism, perhaps because it could
not enter their white blood cells. The areas that were hardest hit by
the Black Plague match those where the gene for HIV resistance is the
most common today.
---

Also see
http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/01/66198
Genetic HIV Resistance Deciphered



http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Making-S...113453/ref=sr_
1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312810518&sr=8-1

For example:

Exposure to bubonic plague did not cause the modification to the
CR5 gene. Exposure to bubonic plague didn't lead the survivors
to procreate more. Survival only allowed those with the mutant
gene to represent a larger segment of a surviving population.

However you'll find that Mediterranean peoples today have a
smaller portion of the population with the mutant gene than
those in northern Europe.
Which is where the mutation appears to have come from. Mystery solved.


Why would that be if the only survivors had the mutant gene?

Logic would dictate that there's more than one mechanism for
survival. But that's generally true for *any* mechanism where
that mechanism can fail. A study of parasites in general shows
how complex their needs are to survive generation after
generation.

I can't think of anything in the natural universe that's linear.
Yet your arguments have historically depended on linear attributes.

Natural universe, perhaps not, but in scientific modeling (premise,
hypothesis, conclusion, new hypothesis based on the synthesis of new
information, ad infinitum) it is about all we have except for the
occasional paradigm shifting revelations grated to the few. What you
offer are interesting, unconnected, misleading factoids that prove
nothing.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/8/2011 12:26 PM, Billy wrote:

In ,
wrote:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/4/l_104_05.html
Reading a chronological history, biologists traced the HIV-resistance
gene mutation back about 700 years. That was the time at which the Black
Death -- bubonic plague -- swept like a deadly scythe through Europe,
killing one-third of the population. Then, as now, there were
individuals who survived the lethal organism, perhaps because it could
not enter their white blood cells. The areas that were hardest hit by
the Black Plague match those where the gene for HIV resistance is the
most common today.

Correlation is not causation.

Natural universe, perhaps not, but in scientific modeling (premise,
hypothesis, conclusion, new hypothesis based on the synthesis of new
information, ad infinitum) it is about all we have except for the
occasional paradigm shifting revelations grated to the few. What you
offer are interesting, unconnected, misleading factoids that prove
nothing.

We agree to disagree. But do let me know if/when you've actually read
something worthwhile about Chaos (internet web pages of the same value
as printed material are few) and have some understanding of the topic.
It is a growth area for most folks and I think your take on what you've
published here will probably change.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/8/2011 12:26 PM, Billy wrote:

In ,
wrote:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/4/l_104_05.html
Reading a chronological history, biologists traced the HIV-resistance
gene mutation back about 700 years. That was the time at which the Black
Death -- bubonic plague -- swept like a deadly scythe through Europe,
killing one-third of the population. Then, as now, there were
individuals who survived the lethal organism, perhaps because it could
not enter their white blood cells. The areas that were hardest hit by
the Black Plague match those where the gene for HIV resistance is the
most common today.

Correlation is not causation.
That's what the tobacco companies used to say, but it sure pin-pointed
where to look for the answer.



Natural universe, perhaps not, but in scientific modeling (premise,
hypothesis, conclusion, new hypothesis based on the synthesis of new
information, ad infinitum) it is about all we have except for the
occasional paradigm shifting revelations grated to the few. What you
offer are interesting, unconnected, misleading factoids that prove
nothing.

We agree to disagree.
You agree that
"All that's left is to select our victims [of DDT]. So far we've
selected the human being."
- outsider

That is an opinion with no supporting evidence.

But do let me know if/when you've actually read
something worthwhile about Chaos (internet web pages of the same value
as printed material are few) and have some understanding of the topic.
It is a growth area for most folks and I think your take on what you've
published here will probably change.

Your patronizing tone is amusing in that you have offered no proof to
support your own opinions, and only offer a book that isn't even written
on the subject. Why don't you just give me the quote, and the page
number, and then I can show everyone how lame you are. How about that?
Hummm?
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/8/2011 5:35 PM, Billy wrote:

Your patronizing tone is amusing in that you have offered no proof to
support your own opinions, and only offer a book that isn't even written
on the subject. Why don't you just give me the quote, and the page
number, and then I can show everyone how lame you are. How about that?
Hummm?

Why don't you just **** off. You have no science to back up your
ideas, they come out of a political play book. So go play....

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/8/2011 5:35 PM, Billy wrote:

Your patronizing tone is amusing in that you have offered no proof to
support your own opinions, and only offer a book that isn't even written
on the subject. Why don't you just give me the quote, and the page
number, and then I can show everyone how lame you are. How about that?
Hummm?

Why don't you just **** off. You have no science to back up your
ideas, they come out of a political play book. So go play....

At least they had citations, which one would never expect from a "poser"
like yourself. I think you just showed who you are ;O)
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 9/08/11 3:32 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/8/2011 5:35 PM, Billy wrote:

Your patronizing tone is amusing in that you have offered no proof to
support your own opinions, and only offer a book that isn't even written
on the subject. Why don't you just give me the quote, and the page
number, and then I can show everyone how lame you are. How about that?
Hummm?

Why don't you just **** off. You have no science to back up your
ideas, they come out of a political play book. So go play....

At least they had citations, which one would never expect from a "poser"
like yourself. I think you just showed who you are ;O)

I second outsider. He has reasoned arguments that involve both science and
logic, you have nothing but rhetoric.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/9/2011 12:32 AM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/8/2011 5:35 PM, Billy wrote:

Your patronizing tone is amusing in that you have offered no proof to
support your own opinions, and only offer a book that isn't even written
on the subject. Why don't you just give me the quote, and the page
number, and then I can show everyone how lame you are. How about that?
Hummm?

Why don't you just **** off. You have no science to back up your
ideas, they come out of a political play book. So go play....

At least they had citations,

I gave you one citation. One little citation, and it was obviously
too much for you to handle.

which one would never expect from a "poser"
like yourself. I think you just showed who you are ;O)

Just as I said, you're just playing with yourself. The book I
recommended would *introduce* you the math behind the various
pieces you were trying to cobble together into an irrational
result. Had you at least read the amazon.com reviews you
might have gotten an inkling what it was all about.

It's the horse and water thing all over again. You showed me
all right. Thanks!

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/8/2011 6:58 PM, outsider wrote:
On 8/8/2011 5:35 PM, Billy wrote:

Your patronizing tone is amusing in that you have offered no proof to
support your own opinions, and only offer a book that isn't even written
on the subject. Why don't you just give me the quote, and the page
number, and then I can show everyone how lame you are. How about that?
Hummm?

Why don't you just **** off.

Hey!
Where do you think you are?
Back home talking to your mother?

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/9/2011 1:34 AM, Psycho-Deli™ wrote:
On 9/08/11 3:32 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/8/2011 5:35 PM, Billy wrote:

Your patronizing tone is amusing in that you have offered no proof to
support your own opinions, and only offer a book that isn't even
written
on the subject. Why don't you just give me the quote, and the page
number, and then I can show everyone how lame you are. How about that?
Hummm?

Why don't you just **** off. You have no science to back up your
ideas, they come out of a political play book. So go play....

At least they had citations, which one would never expect from a "poser"
like yourself. I think you just showed who you are ;O)

I second outsider.

With a name like Psycho-Deli™ isn't there a law that says you have to?

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
Psycho-Deli� wrote:

On 9/08/11 3:32 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/8/2011 5:35 PM, Billy wrote:

Your patronizing tone is amusing in that you have offered no proof to
support your own opinions, and only offer a book that isn't even written
on the subject. Why don't you just give me the quote, and the page
number, and then I can show everyone how lame you are. How about that?
Hummm?

Why don't you just **** off. You have no science to back up your
ideas, they come out of a political play book. So go play....

At least they had citations, which one would never expect from a "poser"
like yourself. I think you just showed who you are ;O)

I second outsider. He has reasoned arguments that involve both science and
logic, you have nothing but rhetoric.

"out" said (I shall paraphase) that we were killing people because we
had outlawed DDT. We didn't, but it's use has been limited in order to
keep it useful by denying mosquitos the chance to become resistant to it.

I gave the citation of
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...o-combat-malar
ia

You can go to the site right now, and see if you can refute the article.

Perhaps, I muddied the water some by writing that "Exposure to the
bubonic plague (or previously to small pox) seems to have imbued some
with resistance to HIV." I should have written "selected for resistance
to disease, which includes HIV".

This was in response to "out"'s cavalierly stating, "Ans (sic) since the
mosquito develops a resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so
will the penguins, and other lifeforms, over time." This is plausible,
but totally inhumane.

In any event it is a side issue, to the side issue that "out" injected
into the post. The point that I was trying to make was that Carson and
the environmental movement were‹and continue to be‹criticized by some
conservatives and libertarians as well as chemical industry trade
groups, who argue that restrictions placed on pesticides, specifically
DDT, have caused tens of millions of needless deaths and hampered
agriculture (and, implicitly, that Carson bears responsibility for
inciting such restrictions). This criticism is at its base corporate
propaganda. The reason that DDT is restricted is because of its effect
on the environment, including humans. To maintain the effectiveness of
DDT, and to fight mosquitos, Integrated Pest Management has been used.
In some case, like Central America, mosquito populations can be
controlled without DDT. In other cases, like Africa, DDT is a weapon in
the arsenal of health workers.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...o-combat-malar
ia
Mexico, the rest of Central America and parts of Africa have combated
malaria without DDT by using alternative methods, such as controlling
stagnant ponds where mosquitoes breed and using bed nets treated with
pyrethroid insecticides. But such efforts have been less successful in
other places, particularly South Africa.

"We have a whole host of mosquito species and more than one parasite.
The biology of the vectors is different and there is therefore no
one-method-fits-all strategy, as is the case in Central America,"
Bouwman said.

The panel convened in March, 2008, at Alma College in Michigan, near a
Superfund site where DDT was produced at a chemical plant. Their goal
was "to address the current and legacy implications of DDT production
and use," according to their report.

Acknowledging that some areas remain dependent on DDT, they recommended
monitoring of the spraying to ensure that usage guidelines are followed
and improved application techniques.

"It is definitely not a matter of letting people die from malaria," de
Jager said.
---

That is my response to "out" and his "conspiracy" model of DDT use.

Look it up.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...o-combat-malar
ia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_...nvironmentalis
m_and_DDT_restrictions

The only citation that "out" gave was
http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Making-S.../0143113453/re
f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312810518&sr=8-1
a book on chaos theory!

I asked for what the book says on the subject (HIV/bubonic plague), and
the relevant page numbers, which "out was unwilling, or unable to
provide. It appears that the was sending me on a "snipe-hunt" so that he
wouldn't have to defend his ignorant remarks.

"out", bite me.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/9/2011 1:29 PM, Billy wrote:

Billy, you're completely out of control.

Stop.

Pull your head out of your ass.

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/206063-lg.jpg

Think about the problem for a while, after reading the
book I urged you to, and replace your politically
regimented opinions with some science, especially with
the math that will help you to see matters in the
correct light.

If you cannot grab hold of some sanity, don't even bother
to reply to me in the future. I stopped reading your
replies in any depth because there's nothing but
propaganda in them.

Good luck with the sanity thing.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/9/2011 1:29 PM, Billy wrote:
The point that I was trying to make was that Carson and
the environmental movement were‹and continue to be‹criticized by some
conservatives and libertarians as well as chemical industry trade
groups, who argue that restrictions placed on pesticides, specifically
DDT, have caused tens of millions of needless deaths and hampered
agriculture (and, implicitly, that Carson bears responsibility for
inciting such restrictions). This criticism is at its base corporate
propaganda. The reason that DDT is restricted is because of its effect
on the environment, including humans. To maintain the effectiveness of
DDT, and to fight mosquitos, Integrated Pest Management has been used.
In some case, like Central America, mosquito populations can be
controlled without DDT. In other cases, like Africa, DDT is a weapon in
the arsenal of health workers.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...o-combat-malar
ia
Mexico, the rest of Central America and parts of Africa have combated
malaria without DDT by using alternative methods, such as controlling
stagnant ponds where mosquitoes breed and using bed nets treated with
pyrethroid insecticides. But such efforts have been less successful in
other places, particularly South Africa.

"We have a whole host of mosquito species and more than one parasite.
The biology of the vectors is different and there is therefore no
one-method-fits-all strategy, as is the case in Central America,"
Bouwman said.

The panel convened in March, 2008, at Alma College in Michigan, near a
Superfund site where DDT was produced at a chemical plant. Their goal
was "to address the current and legacy implications of DDT production
and use," according to their report.

Acknowledging that some areas remain dependent on DDT, they recommended
monitoring of the spraying to ensure that usage guidelines are followed
and improved application techniques.

"It is definitely not a matter of letting people die from malaria," de
Jager said.
---

That is my response to "out" and his "conspiracy" model of DDT use.

Look it up.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...o-combat-malar
ia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_...nvironmentalis
m_and_DDT_restrictions

The only citation that "out" gave was
http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Making-S.../0143113453/re
f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312810518&sr=8-1
a book on chaos theory!

I asked for what the book says on the subject (HIV/bubonic plague), and
the relevant page numbers, which "out was unwilling, or unable to
provide. It appears that the was sending me on a "snipe-hunt" so that he
wouldn't have to defend his ignorant remarks.

And your infantile response is:


Billy, you're completely out of control.

Stop.

Pull your head out of your ass.

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/206063-lg.jpg
Didn't realize you were into "sexting". Appropriate self portrait,
though.


Think about the problem for a while, after reading the
book I urged you to, and replace your politically
regimented opinions with some science, especially with
the math that will help you to see matters in the
correct light.

If you cannot grab hold of some sanity, don't even bother
to reply to me in the future. I stopped reading your
replies in any depth because there's nothing but
propaganda in them.

Good luck with the sanity thing.

All you have to do, "out", is make a statement, and then give a
supporting reference. Or, give me the statement, and the page number
where I can verify it. Is that really so hard for you, or is it that
somewhere in that dormant organ between your ears, you already know that
you made an indefensible statement?

You know that you must look really lame to the others in
sci.med.nutrition, alt.support.diabetes, alt.support.diet.low-carb by
now.

Until then, "out", bite me!
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/9/2011 7:27 PM, Billy wrote:

You know that you must look really lame to the others in
sci.med.nutrition, alt.support.diabetes, alt.support.diet.low-carb by
now.

I don't have a need to impress anyone. Those folks worth their
salt will have checked out the reference I gave and be getting
miles in front of your head in the sand political approach. Why
would I care about laggards like you?

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/9/2011 7:27 PM, Billy wrote:

You know that you must look really lame to the others in
sci.med.nutrition, alt.support.diabetes, alt.support.diet.low-carb by
now.

I don't have a need to impress anyone. Those folks worth their
salt will have checked out the reference I gave and be getting
miles in front of your head in the sand political approach. Why
would I care about laggards like you?

You're a dullard trying to pass for bright.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 10/08/11 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/9/2011 7:27 PM, Billy wrote:

You know that you must look really lame to the others in
sci.med.nutrition, alt.support.diabetes, alt.support.diet.low-carb by
now.

I don't have a need to impress anyone. Those folks worth their
salt will have checked out the reference I gave and be getting
miles in front of your head in the sand political approach. Why
would I care about laggards like you?

You're a dullard trying to pass for bright.

You're a boor too dull to realise by trying to win a fight that you have
already lost you make yourself an object of derision.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/10/2011 9:33 AM, Psycho-Deli™ wrote:
On 10/08/11 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/9/2011 7:27 PM, Billy wrote:

You know that you must look really lame to the others in
sci.med.nutrition, alt.support.diabetes, alt.support.diet.low-carb by
now.

I don't have a need to impress anyone. Those folks worth their
salt will have checked out the reference I gave and be getting
miles in front of your head in the sand political approach. Why
would I care about laggards like you?

You're a dullard trying to pass for bright.

You're a boor too dull to realise by trying to win a fight that you have
already lost you make yourself an object of derision.

He is doing such a fine job of it too!

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
Psycho-Deli� wrote:

On 10/08/11 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/9/2011 7:27 PM, Billy wrote:

You know that you must look really lame to the others in
sci.med.nutrition, alt.support.diabetes, alt.support.diet.low-carb by
now.

I don't have a need to impress anyone. Those folks worth their
salt will have checked out the reference I gave and be getting
miles in front of your head in the sand political approach. Why
would I care about laggards like you?

You're a dullard trying to pass for bright.

You're a boor too dull to realise by trying to win a fight that you have
already lost you make yourself an object of derision.

"Psycho" like "out" you make statements that you can't support. I can
see why you two have an affinity for each other. Sayin' it don't make it
so. If you don't believe me, you can look it up in
http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Making-S.../0143113453/re
f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312810518&sr=8-1

Far from having chosen humans to be victims by banning DDT. DDT is being
used in a more intelligent way via "Integrated Pest Management" (IPM),
instead of just being dumped into the environment.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...o-combat-malar
ia
The scientists reported that DDT may have a variety of human health
effects, including reduced fertility, genital birth defects, breast
cancer, diabetes and damage to developing brains. Its metabolite, DDE,
can block male hormones.

In 2007, at least 3,950 tons of DDT were sprayed for mosquito control in
Africa and Asia, according to a report by the United Nations Environment
Programme.

In South Africa, about 60 to 80 grams is sprayed in each household per
year, Bouwman said.

A 2007 study on male fertility is the only published research so far.
Conducted in Limpopo, South Africa by de Jager and his colleagues, the
study found men in the sprayed homes had extremely high levels of DDT in
their blood and that their semen volume and sperm counts were low.

"Clearly, more research is neededŠbut in the meantime, DDT should really
be the last resort against malaria, rather than the first line of
defense," Eskenazi said.

The pesticide accumulates in body tissues, particularly breast milk, and
lingers in the environment for decades.

Since then [2001, Stockholm Convention], nine nations‹Ethiopia, South
Africa, India, Mauritius, Myanmar, Yemen, Uganda, Mozambique and
Swaziland‹notified the treaty's secretariat that they are using DDT.
Five others‹Zimbabwe, North Korea, Eritrea, Gambia, Namibia and
Zambia--also reportedly are using it, and six others, including China,
have reserved the right to begin using it, according to a January
Stockholm Convention report.

Mexico, the rest of Central America and parts of Africa have combated
malaria without DDT by using alternative methods, such as controlling
stagnant ponds where mosquitoes breed and using bed nets treated with
pyrethroid insecticides. But such efforts have been less successful in
other places, particularly South Africa.

"We have a whole host of mosquito species and more than one parasite.
The biology of the vectors is different and there is therefore no
one-method-fits-all strategy, as is the case in Central America,"
Bouwman said.
---

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims.

If you want to prove me wrong, refute the above statement, otherwise
please spare us your constant braying.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/10/2011 9:50 AM, Billy wrote:

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims.

Still trying to bamboozle readers with multitudes of bull****?

From the article you cited:

(unbroken link here, you really should learn how that's done!)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ddt-use-to-combat-malaria

"Malaria is one of the world's most deadly diseases, each year
killing about 880,000 people, mostly children in sub-Saharan
Africa, according to the World Health Organization."

What's the point in spraying the inside of a house that has no
screening?

They're the victims of the failure to eradicate by any means
possible. Nothing more is needed to refute your incessant
boorish blather.

If you want to prove me wrong, refute the above statement, otherwise
please spare us your constant braying.

If you read your own cite you'd get the picture. If you read
_Chaos, the Making of a new Science_ you'd perhaps actually
understand the problem. But it is likely you're too brain
damaged to understand the mathematical logic.

Bray on!

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 9:50 AM, Billy wrote:

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims.

Still trying to bamboozle readers with multitudes of bull****?

From the article you cited:

(unbroken link here, you really should learn how that's done!)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ddt-use-to-combat-malaria

"Malaria is one of the world's most deadly diseases, each year
killing about 880,000 people, mostly children in sub-Saharan
Africa, according to the World Health Organization."

What's the point in spraying the inside of a house that has no
screening?

They're the victims of the failure to eradicate by any means
possible.

Citation, please, to show that every means possible isn't being used.
You are a wonder. You can't even read an article, yet you claimed to
have read a whole book. It seems unlikely.

In any event, some proof, please, to support your deranged opinion.
It would be nice if we could have stayed with the original subject,
which according to you, was the deaths that arose from the non-use of
DDT. I guess you've dropped that contention to now argue that they
don't spray enough.

Are you the product of the dysfunctional American school system?

Bray on!

Nothing more is needed to refute your incessant
boorish blather.

If you want to prove me wrong, refute the above statement, otherwise
please spare us your constant braying.

If you read your own cite you'd get the picture. If you read
_Chaos, the Making of a new Science_ you'd perhaps actually
understand the problem. But it is likely you're too brain
damaged to understand the mathematical logic.

Bray on!
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 9:33 AM, Psycho-Deli� wrote:
On 10/08/11 2:35 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/9/2011 7:27 PM, Billy wrote:

You know that you must look really lame to the others in
sci.med.nutrition, alt.support.diabetes, alt.support.diet.low-carb by
now.

I don't have a need to impress anyone. Those folks worth their
salt will have checked out the reference I gave and be getting
miles in front of your head in the sand political approach. Why
would I care about laggards like you?

You're a dullard trying to pass for bright.

You're a boor too dull to realise by trying to win a fight that you have
already lost you make yourself an object of derision.

He is doing such a fine job of it too!

So what newsgroup are you boneheads from?
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

are you guys having a happy day



Billy wrote:
In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 9:50 AM, Billy wrote:

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims.

Still trying to bamboozle readers with multitudes of bull****?

From the article you cited:

(unbroken link here, you really should learn how that's done!)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ddt-use-to-combat-malaria

"Malaria is one of the world's most deadly diseases, each year
killing about 880,000 people, mostly children in sub-Saharan
Africa, according to the World Health Organization."

What's the point in spraying the inside of a house that has no
screening?

They're the victims of the failure to eradicate by any means
possible.

Citation, please, to show that every means possible isn't being used.
You are a wonder. You can't even read an article, yet you claimed to
have read a whole book. It seems unlikely.

In any event, some proof, please, to support your deranged opinion.
It would be nice if we could have stayed with the original subject,
which according to you, was the deaths that arose from the non-use of
DDT. I guess you've dropped that contention to now argue that they
don't spray enough.

Are you the product of the dysfunctional American school system?

Bray on!

Nothing more is needed to refute your incessant
boorish blather.

If you want to prove me wrong, refute the above statement, otherwise
please spare us your constant braying.

If you read your own cite you'd get the picture. If you read
_Chaos, the Making of a new Science_ you'd perhaps actually
understand the problem. But it is likely you're too brain
damaged to understand the mathematical logic.

Bray on!

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
"%" wrote:

are you guys having a happy day

A day without whacking a bonehead, is like a day without sunshine ;O)



Billy wrote:
In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 9:50 AM, Billy wrote:

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims.

Still trying to bamboozle readers with multitudes of bull****?

From the article you cited:

(unbroken link here, you really should learn how that's done!)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...combat-malaria


"Malaria is one of the world's most deadly diseases, each year
killing about 880,000 people, mostly children in sub-Saharan
Africa, according to the World Health Organization."

What's the point in spraying the inside of a house that has no
screening?

They're the victims of the failure to eradicate by any means
possible.

Citation, please, to show that every means possible isn't being used.
You are a wonder. You can't even read an article, yet you claimed to
have read a whole book. It seems unlikely.

In any event, some proof, please, to support your deranged opinion.
It would be nice if we could have stayed with the original subject,
which according to you, was the deaths that arose from the non-use of
DDT. I guess you've dropped that contention to now argue that they
don't spray enough.

Are you the product of the dysfunctional American school system?

Bray on!

Nothing more is needed to refute your incessant
boorish blather.

If you want to prove me wrong, refute the above statement, otherwise
please spare us your constant braying.

If you read your own cite you'd get the picture. If you read
_Chaos, the Making of a new Science_ you'd perhaps actually
understand the problem. But it is likely you're too brain
damaged to understand the mathematical logic.

Bray on!

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/10/2011 2:53 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/10/2011 9:50 AM, Billy wrote:

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims.

Still trying to bamboozle readers with multitudes of bull****?

From the article you cited:

(unbroken link here, you really should learn how that's done!)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ddt-use-to-combat-malaria

"Malaria is one of the world's most deadly diseases, each year
killing about 880,000 people, mostly children in sub-Saharan
Africa, according to the World Health Organization."

What's the point in spraying the inside of a house that has no
screening?

They're the victims of the failure to eradicate by any means
possible.

Citation, please, to show that every means possible isn't being used.

It is in the article you yourself provided the citation for, if you
know how to read and comprehend.

880,000 (quoted above from your source) dying every year is clearly
not using every means possible to prevent infection and death.

Just how thick are you?

You are a wonder. You can't even read an article, yet you claimed to
have read a whole book. It seems unlikely.

This is a symptom of your brain damage, so I'll let it pass.

In any event, some proof, please, to support your deranged opinion.

Done by your article, not that you'd notice or understand it.

It would be nice if we could have stayed with the original subject,
which according to you, was the deaths that arose from the non-use of
DDT. I guess you've dropped that contention to now argue that they
don't spray enough.

Are you the product of the dysfunctional American school system?

Bray on!

More of your brain damage is in evidence here.


Nothing more is needed to refute your incessant
boorish blather.

If you want to prove me wrong, refute the above statement, otherwise
please spare us your constant braying.

If you read your own cite you'd get the picture.

This ignored statement bears repeating. If you read your own cite you'd
get the picture. Of course I forgot to account for your brain damage.

If you read
_Chaos, the Making of a new Science_ you'd perhaps actually
understand the problem. But it is likely you're too brain
damaged to understand the mathematical logic.

Bray on!

Repeat.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/10/2011 2:55 PM, Billy wrote:

nothing

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 2:53 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/10/2011 9:50 AM, Billy wrote:

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims.

Still trying to bamboozle readers with multitudes of bull****?

From the article you cited:

(unbroken link here, you really should learn how that's done!)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...combat-malaria


"Malaria is one of the world's most deadly diseases, each year
killing about 880,000 people, mostly children in sub-Saharan
Africa, according to the World Health Organization."

What's the point in spraying the inside of a house that has no
screening?

They're the victims of the failure to eradicate by any means
possible.

Citation, please, to show that every means possible isn't being used.

It is in the article you yourself provided the citation for, if you
know how to read and comprehend.

880,000 (quoted above from your source) dying every year is clearly
not using every means possible to prevent infection and death.

Are you contending that not enough DDT is being sprayed? If so
"quantify" how much is needed. Think you could do a little thing like
that? Hmmmm?

"out" is a modest little man with much to be modest about.

Just how thick are you?

You are a wonder. You can't even read an article, yet you claimed to
have read a whole book. It seems unlikely.

This is a symptom of your brain damage, so I'll let it pass.

In any event, some proof, please, to support your deranged opinion.

Done by your article, not that you'd notice or understand it.

It would be nice if we could have stayed with the original subject,
which according to you, was the deaths that arose from the non-use of
DDT. I guess you've dropped that contention to now argue that they
don't spray enough.

Are you the product of the dysfunctional American school system?

Bray on!

More of your brain damage is in evidence here.


Nothing more is needed to refute your incessant
boorish blather.

If you want to prove me wrong, refute the above statement, otherwise
please spare us your constant braying.

If you read your own cite you'd get the picture.

This ignored statement bears repeating. If you read your own cite you'd
get the picture. Of course I forgot to account for your brain damage.

If you read
_Chaos, the Making of a new Science_ you'd perhaps actually
understand the problem. But it is likely you're too brain
damaged to understand the mathematical logic.

Bray on!

Repeat.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/10/2011 4:53 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

are you guys having a happy day

A day without whacking a bonehead, is like a day without sunshine ;O)

You're whacking a bone with a head, but no bonehead is in sight unless
you're looking in a mirror.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/10/2011 7:03 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

880,000 (quoted above from your source) dying every year is clearly
not using every means possible to prevent infection and death.

Are you contending that not enough DDT is being sprayed? If so
"quantify" how much is needed. Think you could do a little thing like
that? Hmmmm?

You do insist on being a jackass. With 880,000 people dying every
year it is "clearly not using every means possible to prevent
infection and death."

WTF are you arguing now? Are you saying that "every means possible
is being used?" Your latest attempt to recover from irrecoverable
stupidities is nothing less than a red herring fallacy.

"out" is a modest little man with much to be modest about.

Was that supposed to wound me? Are you copying insults from
some database at random, or using a list someone else compiled
for you?

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 4:53 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

are you guys having a happy day

A day without whacking a bonehead, is like a day without sunshine ;O)

You're whacking a bone with a head, but no bonehead is in sight unless
you're looking in a mirror.

Can't answer the question, can you?

Are you contending that not enough DDT is being sprayed? If so
"quantify" how much is needed. Think you could do a little thing like
that? Hmmmm?

"out" is a modest little man with much to be modest about.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

On 8/10/2011 8:49 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/10/2011 4:53 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

are you guys having a happy day

A day without whacking a bonehead, is like a day without sunshine ;O)

You're whacking a bone with a head, but no bonehead is in sight unless
you're looking in a mirror.

Can't answer the question, can you?

Are you contending that not enough DDT is being sprayed? If so
"quantify" how much is needed. Think you could do a little thing like
that? Hmmmm?


Just as soon as you address *why* 880,000 humans perish every year
from malaria.


"out" is a modest little man with much to be modest about.

Please stop whacking your boner in public.

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 8:49 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 8/10/2011 4:53 PM, Billy wrote:
In ,
wrote:

are you guys having a happy day

A day without whacking a bonehead, is like a day without sunshine ;O)

You're whacking a bone with a head, but no bonehead is in sight unless
you're looking in a mirror.

Can't answer the question, can you?

Are you contending that not enough DDT is being sprayed? If so
"quantify" how much is needed. Think you could do a little thing like
that? Hmmmm?


Just as soon as you address *why* 880,000 humans perish every year
from malaria.
Well, my best guess is eukaryotic protists of the genus Plasmodium.

So you've gone from asserting that we've selected human beings as our
victims (for whatever reason), to dickering over the cause of death for
these humans. You can start with over-population that can be handled
intelligently, or the old fashion way of famine, and sharp population
declines. Wall Street is already trying to increase crop prices.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.
You're contending that not enough DDT is being sprayed? If so "quantify"
how much is needed. Think you could do a little thing like that? Hmmmm?
Dummy.


"out" is a modest little man with much to be modest about.

Please stop whacking your boner in public.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
 

Outsider is always having a happy day as long as he can call someone an
idiot.
It's the only pleasure he has left :-)

On 8/10/2011 1:05 PM, % wrote:
are you guys having a happy day



Billy wrote:
In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 9:50 AM, Billy wrote:

So much for having chosen human beings for our victims.

Still trying to bamboozle readers with multitudes of bull****?

From the article you cited:

(unbroken link here, you really should learn how that's done!)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ddt-use-to-combat-malaria


"Malaria is one of the world's most deadly diseases, each year
killing about 880,000 people, mostly children in sub-Saharan
Africa, according to the World Health Organization."

What's the point in spraying the inside of a house that has no
screening?

They're the victims of the failure to eradicate by any means
possible.

Citation, please, to show that every means possible isn't being used.
You are a wonder. You can't even read an article, yet you claimed to
have read a whole book. It seems unlikely.

In any event, some proof, please, to support your deranged opinion.
It would be nice if we could have stayed with the original subject,
which according to you, was the deaths that arose from the non-use of
DDT. I guess you've dropped that contention to now argue that they
don't spray enough.

Are you the product of the dysfunctional American school system?

Bray on!

Nothing more is needed to refute your incessant
boorish blather.

If you want to prove me wrong, refute the above statement, otherwise
please spare us your constant braying.

If you read your own cite you'd get the picture. If you read
_Chaos, the Making of a new Science_ you'd perhaps actually
understand the problem. But it is likely you're too brain
damaged to understand the mathematical logic.

Bray on!

Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
 

In article ,
outsider wrote:

On 8/10/2011 2:55 PM, "out" wrote:

nothing

Are you contending that not enough DDT is being sprayed? If so
"quantify" how much is needed. Think you could do a little thing like
that? Hmmmm?


Just as soon as you address *why* 880,000 humans perish every year
from malaria.

Well, my best guess is eukaryotic protists of the genus Plasmodium.

Now it's your turn.

So you've gone from asserting that we've selected human beings as our
victims (for whatever reason), to dickering over the cause of death for
these humans. You can start with over-population, which can be handled
intelligently, or the old fashion way of famine, and sharp population
declines. Wall Street, by the way, is already increasing crop prices,
just as they did with oil, i.e. speculation.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.
You're contending that not enough DDT is being sprayed? If so "quantify"
how much is needed. Think you could do a little thing like that? Hmmmm?

Anytime you're through playing games, I'd like an answer with a citation
of support, and not another one of your self portraits.

"out" is a modest little man with much to be modest about.

Bray on.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis