WeightLossBanter - View Single Post - Fruit's phytochemicals without the sugar? By yogurt?

**Doug Freyburger** · December 2nd, 2012, 07:55 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb

wrote:
wrote:

I've recently gone from low-carb to very-low-carb eating. *I'm trying
to get below 20 g/d. *(And HOORAY has it done great things for my blood
sugars! *Also much less hunger while I'm dropping weight.)

Just to check -

You don't think that lower carb gives faster loss do you? it can happen
temporarily but in general it's a false assumption. Once in ketosis
changing carb grams does nothing to effect the rate of fat coming out of
storage. The impact can come from lower total calories if you don't
replace them with fat calories. But higher fat calories do increase the
rate of ketosis pulling fat out of storage faster. Stay too low and in
various time frames two weeks to a year T3 then leptin then cortisol
levels interfere with benefits of lower carb. The idea of CCLL is that
it's optimal for the entire length of the loss phase.

One thing to wonder about when going very low in carb is the possibility
of a previously unknown intolerance food. Some food that makes you more
hungry not less hungry when you eat it. This is in addition to the
insulin swing effect. Any level in ketosis has no insulin swing effect
so if you get less hungry by going lower than the carb grams necessary
to get into ketosis then you likely did that by eliminating several
specific ingredients. Watch carefully how your body reacts when you add
those ingredients back in - One can be a food that makes you more hungry
not less.

One of the things I've cut is fruits. *And I miss 'em.

Arguably my favorite fruits are cucumbers and tomatoes. Very low and
medium low in carb grams respectively. Let's see if that helps you take
on a different conception of what fruit are. They are usually veggies
that have a pretty skin and extra sugar.

Is there a way to get the phytochemicals from fruits, without the sugar?

Fermentation. Dry red wine. Dry hard cider. Unsweetened fruit
brandies.

I'm thinking of live-culture yogurt. * When it's packaged, it has a
fair amount of lactose in it, and the label usually shows 4-8g/serving
of sugar. *But I've read several places that the live culture converts
the lactose to lactate (lactic acid). *So it doesn't increase your
blood sugar at all.

Fermentation, right.

Would this still work if I mashed up, and mixed in:

* * strawberries
* * cherries
* * blueberries
* * plums
* * beets?

Would the fermentation process kill all the antioxidants? *That is, red
wine seems to retain the antioxidants of the grapes, but preservation
depletes the antioxidants in olives.

For a while in my childhood, my mother kept a crock of yeasty fruit on
the counter, which got kind of sour and kind of alcoholic. *She called
it "brandied fruit." *I wonder...

The problem is you can estimate the carb count before the fermentation,
and you can estimate the carb count after the fermentation runs to
completion if it does run to completion, but you can't while the
fermentation is still running. The mash would need to ferment for at
least a month.

It would take a bunch of experimentation to get the result right. It
can get bacterial infections and come out nasty all the way though using
a brewers airlock to keep it pure and ending up possibly great possibly
disgusting. Fun experiment though.

The bigger question here would be why you want or need
to go below 20g a day? That's less than even the 20g
permitted on Atkins induction. I have no problem with
people who want to stay at that level for awhile, but one
of the obvious problems is that it limits not only fruits,
but other vegetables choices as well. It doesn't take
much in the way of even LC vegs to get to 20g.

It's definitely a low easier to get all of those phytochemicals from the
veggies on the Atkins ultra-low list aka salad list than it is to start
with fruit and ferment the carbs out of them.

Also, fruits are not the only source of phytochemicals.
They are contained in most other plants as well. So,
you could probably get the same things you're getting
in fruit from LC vegetables. But then when I did induction
I wasn't worried about all the possible nutrients because
the induction level of carb is typically only 2 weeks. And
even if you extend it to a couple months, it's not like
you're going to be at 20g of carb and that limited in food
choices forever.

So understand that it's only one phase of a four phase process. Plan to
go higher later. The issue is more than how long to extend it's what
impact extending for longer has. This discussion of phytochemicals
becomes irrelevant if the phases are followed. And so that remains the
best advice - Follow the phases.