On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
That this doctor would call avoiding one stroke in 32 men in 5 years
a slim benefit pretty much tells you he's an idiot.

Yes, of course he's an "idiot," he isn't pushing drugs for every
ailment known to man!

No. What I clearly stated was that I consider him to be an
idiot because he says that avoiding one stroke in 32 men
in 5 years is a "slim benefit". I think most reasonable
people would say avoiding one stroke in 32 men in 5 years
is a huge benefit. Especially if you happen to be the one
in 32.

There's no guarantee that any other cohort of 32 men would even
experience that "slim benefit," and you're totally ignoring the many
risk factors from taking these drugs, which include DEATH.

By all means, if you think these are good odds, then just
automatically take the drugs. Don't try anything else first.

See: Darwin.

One in 32 dead
or crippled for life doesn't seem slim to me.

It also doesn't mean that any of another cohort of identically matched
32 men will have a stroke, either.

Statistics just aren't your thing, are they?

You and perhaps the doctor are the ones confused.
I just used HIS statistics. As to another cohort, there isn't
one.

Exactly!

Not to mention:

"I suppose it should be borne in mind that the authors of the
meta-analysis are Professors Malcolm Law and Nicholas Wald, who own
patents for a multi-medication pill (the ‘polypill’) that includes
(perhaps predictably) antihypertensives."

What a coincidence!

As for the side effects of medication, there is a wide array of
blood pressure medication available today.

Yes, of course there is, because it's a lucrative business, but they
all come with pretty much the same package of side effects, one of
which is DEATH.

Oh please. More scare tactic nonsense.

To mention the many risk factors from taking these drugs is
"nonsense"?

What a bozo you are.

Just listing all
the possible side effects from any medication is nothing but
scare tactics.

Actually, what it is, is being open and honest about taking drugs for
hypertension - they all come with a cost.

And what Dr. Briffa is saying, and what I am saying, is that you
should consider nutritional, diet, and lifestyle changes before
rushing out and taking a drug with known serious side-effects, because
there is beaucoup evidence out there that they can have a positive and
profound effect on one's hypertension.

And if that makes us "idiots," I'm happy to be one!

Someone who's blood pressure is 140 is probably
going to find it very easy to find a medication that lowers it
with no side effects. *Conversely, the person most likely to
have side effects because of the higher dosages required,
eg, someone at 200+, is also the person who is going to benefit the
most in terms of reducing the risk of heart attack, stroke, premature
death, etc.

Not necessarily, because until one learns WHY he or she has BP that
high, simply taking a drug for it may not help solve the underlying
REASON(S) for it.

With most cases of hypertension, there is no known underlying
reason. In some cases it's secondary to another disease. We
do know there are some steps that can be taken by people with
hypertension that can help, eg keep their weight under control,
excercise. I'm not suggesting that isn't a good idea.

That's exactly what you're doing, because that's all I'm saying!
That's all that Dr. Briffa is saying!

Try diet, try nutrition, try lifestyle changes, before getting on the
drug train!

Turning out the blinking engine light isn't a very good idea. First,
find out what's causing it to blink.

It is.
Virtually all the doctors out there are telling patients to lose
weight, exercise, etc. But when they come back 6 months,
a year later and they haven't lost weight, then what?

Then they can make up their own minds, just like I said!

Just like Dr. Briffa said.

You seem to think anything can be treated without drugs.

I don't know where you get that impression. Besides the fact that
you're just a stupid man, I mean. I said to try other things first,
then make up your mind, after considering the risk factors, etc.

On the other hand, you seem to think that drugs are always the answer!

Which drug company do you work for? Pfizer? AstraZeneca? What?

Moron.


--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman