On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:14:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 3, 1:39*pm, Dogman wrote:

But whether taking personal responsibilty is "practical," is a moot
point.

It's not a moot point because it's obviously not
working

And the reason it's not working is that they haven't actually taken
the responsibility to make it work.

It doesn't work

Of course it does! The evidence is all around you!

The fat people you see haven't taken responsibility.

The healthy and fit people you see, have.

Uh huh and the obese ones are growing in numbers
each year.

If something can't go on forever, it won't.

So, personal responsibility is not working
for most people. That is the point Doug is making
too.

Again, you can't be a little bit pregnant. Either you take
responsibility, or you don't.

OK. *We have people who are personally responsible
in all other aspects of their lives. *They have good jobs.
They pay their bills. *They put their kids through school.
The stay out of trouble with the law. *So, clearly most
people out there have a high degree of personal
responsibility.

But we're not talking about those things! *We're talking about taking
responsibilty for your own health, your own weight, etc.

We are talking about it now because I brought it up.
I gave those as obvious examples that show most
people do have a considerable amount of personal
responsibility.

Then they wouldn't be fat!

In other words the biological urges governing eating
and weight are so strong that saying all that's
needed is personal responsibility doesn't work for
most people when it comes to diet.

It works for anyone and everyone who actually takes responsibility,
instead of just talking about it.

The same goes for other addictions.

The obvious point is that the level of personal
responsibility that you require them to have, is
impossible for most people.

I don't believe that. Sorry.

That's OK, given all the nonsense that you believe,
like HIV doesn't cause AIDS and that no
virus can cause cancer, that is actually a comfort.

People who believe in prions, HIV, HCV, unicorns, leprechauns, believe
that statins are always good for you and should even be given to 9
year olds, that HPV causes cervical cancer, that Gardisil should be
given to every girl and boy as young as 12, etc. shouldn't be throwing
stones.

It's like alcohol and drug addiction. Until someone hits bottom and
finally decides that the pain and misery just isn't worth it, he
remains addicted. Some people just don't make it. That's life.

It's not just some people. It's a growing obesity epidemic
that gets worse each year.

So what? Our society reeks of a lack of personal responsibility, so it
shouldn't come as any surprise that people are getting fatter,
unhealthier, etc. It goes with the territory.

Because that is exactly what the obese person trying
to diet has to do. Unlike an alcoholic, they can't just
avoid food.

Of course they can! They can avoid eating too much of the wrong
things!

They can't avoid eating food with their
family and friends either.

No, but they can eat the right things!

You think maybe, just maybe, that's why personal
responsibility is failing?

Personal responsibility never fails!

Either you've taken it, or you haven't.

Throwing one's hands in the air and giving up is the personification
of not taking responsibility.

And tilting at windmills,

What's foolish about realizing that you *must* keep trying, do more
research, etc. to maintain one's health?

It's foolish when you have a public health crisis and
that approach clearly isnt' working.

That's partly because people are not encouraged to take personal
responsibility for their actions anymore.

To do otherwise is to admit defeat before you even start.

It's not like we're just starting. We have 3 decades of failure
with obesity getting significantly worse each year.

Yeah, and it may take several more decades to get the ship turned
around, too.

If you don't eat properly, you can exercise until the
cows come how, and you won't lose much if any weight.

BS. *The Nazi concentration camps proved that.

How exactly did concentration camps prove that??? *They were starved,
they lost almost all of their weight (virtual skeletons), and most
died. What should they have been doing? Running marathons?

They proved it by the fact that they were doing hard
forced labor, eating little and losing weight.

Why did you leave out the part about being starved to death???

How well do you think you'd do on bread and water?

You claimed
that excercise without eating right won't cause weight
loss.

Exactly. You can work out until the cows come home, but you won't lose
any weight if you eat too much of the wrong foods. In fact, you'll
often GAIN weight. Football players, for example.

They were not eating right,

They were not just not eating right, they were being starved to death,
you moron.

Yes, it works, but it doesn't make you lose weight.

You just agreed above that it did make people
lose weight on Biggest Loser.

They diet! They lose weight from dieting!

Oh, I see now it's back to they only lost weight
due to dieting, not from excercise. But wait....
You claimed they should have put on weight from
the excercise. Confused again.

That you permantly live in a state of confusion is not really that
hard to believe.

I've explained exactly what I mean, I've done it several times now,
and I won't be doing it again.

First you argue that excercise doesn't do any good
and can make you gain weight, now you're endorsing
some excercise.

Of course I endorse exercise, you moron! But not to lose weight! We
should exercise to become more fit, etc.

The vast majority of us are not even fit enough to exercise, because
we're so overweight that anything but walking short distances is
dangerous to our joints, our heart, etc.

Speak for yourself. *If you're so fat you can't
excercise, that's an issue of personal responsibility....

Exactly!

Well, I'm sorry to hear you say that you're so fat
you can't excercise, but I'm not surprised either.

I exercise at least 2-3 times per week (cardio, interval training,
weights, etc), and I have 10% body fat. I took personal
responsibility for getting there, so I got there. It wasn't always
easy, like it is now. I.e., I wasn't always there, but then again, I
haven't always taken responsibility for my health, weight, etc.

But I didn't lose any weight by exercising, nor do I keep it off by
exercising. I could stop exercising altogether and my weight wouldn't
vary but by a few pounds, +/-. I got this way, and stay this way, by
eating properly. Period.

What I get from exercising is just icing on the cake.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman