On Jun 16, 12:27*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 06:19:18 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Because that's all I'm saying here, and that's all Dr. Briffa is
saying!

One more time. Dr. Briffa did an analysis where he
claimed that you have to treat 32 men in order to avoid
one stroke in 5 years. He then called the benefit of
avoiding one stroke in 5 years a "slim benefit".

And that's what it is, for the very reasons I've already explained.

You haven't explained it. *All you've done is to start
attacking me and trying to shift the issue away to
something else.

You're the one who's been doing the attacking. I merely made a post
about the wisdom of trying diet, nutrition, and lifestyle changes,

And I merely pointed out that the doctor who wrote the
article says that avoiding one stroke in 32 men over
5 years is a "slim benefit". I think anyone listening to him
should have an idea of where he's coming from. And
where you're coming from too.

If you think avoiding one stroke in 32 men every 5 years
is a slim benefit, then by all means, listen to the doctor.

Me, I think anyone making that above statement is
out of touch.




The side effects from taking these drugs can be debilitating, and can
even result in DEATH.

Capitalize it one more time to try to scare people.
Almost every drug, including aspirin has the risk
of death. You're like the doctor, starting with a
conclusion and then skewing everything to try to
make it agree with your conclusion.




Most people wouldn't think it's a "huge benefit" if the side effects
of taking the drugs can also result in DEATH, among a long list of
life-long, debilitating effects.

The side effect of most drugs includes possible death.

Exactly. And that's why they should always be the last resort.

But even the other side effects from taking BP meds are nothing to
sniff at, e.g., impotence, dizziness, low blood sugar, muscle cramps,
constipation, headaches, bleeding gums, etc. - for essentially the
rest of one's life.
BP medications are generally well tolerated.

No, they are not.

Another lie. Study please!



But diet, nutrition and lifestyle changes are.

So someone should give them a try FIRST, then make up their mind
whether they should take potentially debilitating drugs for the rest
of their lives.

I never said otherwise, despite how much you want to
make believe that's the issue.




No one has ever said that drugs should never be taken, but that they
should only be taken as a LAST RESORT.



When you claim that avoiding one stroke in 32 men
over 5 years is a "slim benefit" and start harping on about
DEATH, then I'd say you're advocating that drugs
not be taken. Why would any rational person take
something that is of "slim benefit" and can cause
DEATH? Now if the drug in question has a huge
benefit and virtually no risk of death, which is the
truth, then a rational person would choose to take the drug. Capiche?



I read what Dr. Briffa wrote. *And he's coming from a
very strange viewpoint, where avoiding one person
in 32 having a stroke every 5 years is a "slim benefit".

It is a "slim benefit," which is another reason why diet, nutrition
and lifestyle changes should be TRIED FIRST!

The lie repeated. Of course if you had a study that
showed that say LC could avoid one stroke in 32 men
over 5 years, why then it would be a huge benefit!

That's the difference. I'm open minded and objective.
You are out with a case to prove and willing to do any
perversion of the truth to do it.




Well, good luck with that, asshole!

Hypertension can also run in families, and may be absolutely nothing
to worry about.

I'm sure we'd all like to see the study that supports
that conclusion.

You can look it up. Well, maybe you can't, but anyone else can.

In other words, as usual, you have no supporting
data.

No, in other words, I'm not doing your work for you, and that's
because I don't like you.

As usual, no study, just more BS.


If everyone in a family has elevated BP, but live
average lives, don't have strokes or heart attacks, why would you
necessarily want to lower it in the first place,

Study please to show that this pure speculation
exists. Otherwise, it's just a strawman.

You can look it up.

In other words, as usual, you have no supporting
data.

See above.

As usual, no study, just more BS.
I could claim Martians landed in NYC in 1990 and then
use the same pathetic strategy. Anyone asks for proof,
just say "look it up".



But the mere thought that you don't even know that hypertension and/or
high cholesterol can run in families tells me all that I ever needed
to know about you - i.e., you're an idiot.



Another attempt at lying and redirection. I never said
that. YOU said that hypertension and high cholesterol
that runs in some families is harmless.

Still waiting for the study on that.....

crickets.







You probably should look up the term "straw man" too, because you
obviously don't know what that means.

especially after
considering that artificailly doing so may cause DEATH and other
life-long debilitating effects?

Do you realize that if you have a headache and take some
aspirin there is a risk of DEATH?

I'm not aware of it ever happening, but I suppose it's possible.

Anything is possible.

Then why aren't you running around talking about
the dangers of DEATH from aspirin?

But they do.

Who is they and what do they do? Hearing voices now?



And you can easily find that, too.

Some families have abnormally high (or extremely low) levels of
cholesterol, too, but most of them lead normal lives, with normal
life-spans.

Study please.

Oh please.

Look it up for yourself. It's easy to do.
In other words, as usual, you have no supporting
data.

The internet is your friend!

Asshole.


As usual, nothing to back up wild claims. And then
resort to name calling. You think you're impressing
folks here?