On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:22:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 12, 12:19*pm, Dogman wrote:

There's no guarantee that any other cohort of 32 men would even
experience that "slim benefit," and you're totally ignoring the many
risk factors from taking these drugs, which include DEATH.

As usual, you're wandering of course here and
trying to confuse the issue.

Actually, I'm just trying to illustrate all the facts that you're
trying to suppress, or minimize.

By all means, if you think these are good odds, then just
automatically take the drugs. Don't try anything else first.

There you go again. I never said anything about not trying
anything else first.

Then why are you gnawing on my ankles again???

Because that's all I'm saying here, and that's all Dr. Briffa is
saying! Along with many other doctors and scientists.

Yes, of course there is, because it's a lucrative business, but
they
all come with pretty much the same package of side effects, one of
which is DEATH.

Oh please. *More scare tactic nonsense.

To mention the many risk factors from taking these drugs is
"nonsense"?

It is when you blow them all out of proportion and
capitalize the word DEATH.

I'm not blowing them out of proportion, I'm just restoring them to
their rightful place. Only morons ignore side effects of drugs (and
all drugs have them!).

And the word DEATH should get even your attention.

Nah, probably not.

Not necessarily, because until one learns WHY he or she has BP that
high, simply taking a drug for it may not help solve the underlying
REASON(S) for it.

With most cases of hypertension, there is no known underlying
reason. *In some cases it's secondary to another disease. *We
do know there are some steps that can be taken by people with
hypertension that can help, eg keep their weight under control,
excercise. *I'm not suggesting that isn't a good idea.

That's exactly what you're doing, because that's all I'm saying!
That's all that Dr. Briffa is saying!

Again, you seem to have a problem here. This
has happened many times now. I take issue with
one specific part of something that some "expert"
has said. You then somehow try to twist that into
something totally different. In this case, I specifically
stated that IMO, Dr. Briffa is an idiot because he
thinks avoiding one stroke in 32 men over 5 years
is a slim benefit. I think that's a huge benefit.

Most people wouldn't think it's a "huge benefit" if the side effects
of taking the drugs can also result in DEATH, among a long list of
life-long, debilitating effects.

And only some moron like you would call them "idiots."

Now, instead of staying on the point, you claim I'm
advocating people not try to lower their blood pressure
first by losing weight, exercise, etc.

That's pretty much what you were doing, otherwise there would have
been no need to reply.

QED.

Try diet, try nutrition, try lifestyle changes, before getting on the
drug train!

Great idea and everyone agrees it's good advice.

Good! That's progress!

How well is that working in practice?

How well does anyone know without trying it?

But I think it works well for the vast majority of people who try it,
and then stick to it.

Hypertension can also run in families, and may be absolutely nothing
to worry about. If everyone in a family has elevated BP, but live
average lives, don't have strokes or heart attacks, why would you
necessarily want to lower it in the first place, especially after
considering that artificailly doing so may cause DEATH and other
life-long debilitating effects?

Some families have abnormally high (or extremely low) levels of
cholesterol, too, but most of them lead normal lives, with normal
life-spans.

On the other hand, you seem to think that drugs are always the answer!

Which drug company do you work for? *Pfizer? *AstraZeneca? What?

Moron.

On the other hand, you and your sources
could never have any such motives, right?

Of course they can!

That's why The Scientific Method is so important!

Let's start with Dr. Briffa. Speaking of lucrative
businesses, does he not get paid for the books
he writes?

Presumably, but he doesn't have a book regarding hypertension.

And his opinions are supported by The Scientific Method.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman