On Sun, 27 May 2012 08:06:19 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
Which is a cause and which is the effect? *It is certain that bariatric
surgery makes total adherence to low carb mandatory.

Why? I hadn't heard that at all.

The change in hormones is immediate presumably because most of the
stomach is bypassed and is not stimulated by eating.

The not eating part is caused by the band. *It can as easily be caused
by doing the fat fast. *That should trigger the same metabolic changes.

So you say, without any evidence whatever to support it.
Have you not seen the reports and research going on to
understand the mystifying changes scene in most of
these patients within days of the surgery. Like the
complete reversal of diabetes?

Or the adverse effects:

Adverse effects

Complications from weight loss surgery are frequent. A study of
insurance claims of 2522 who had undergone bariatric surgery showed
21.9% complications during the initial hospital stay and a total of
40% risk of complications in the subsequent six months. This was more
common in those over 40 and led to an increased health care
expenditure. Common problems were gastric dumping syndrome in about
20% (bloating and diarrhea after eating, necessitating small meals or
medication), leaks at the surgical site (12%), incisional hernia (7%),
infections (6%) and pneumonia (4%). Mortality was 0.2%.[31] As the
rate of complications appears to be reduced when the procedure is
performed by an experienced surgeon, guidelines recommend that surgery
be performed in dedicated or experienced units.[4]

Metabolic bone disease manifesting as osteopenia and secondary
hyperparathyroidism have been reported after Roux-en-Y gastric bypass
surgery due to reduced calcium absorption. The highest concentration
of calcium transporters is in the duodenum. Since the ingested food
will not pass through the duodenum after a bypass procedure, calcium
levels in the blood may decrease, causing secondary
hyperparathyroidism, increase in bone turnover, and a decrease in bone
mass. Increased risk of fracture has also been linked to bariatric
surgery.[32]

Rapid weight loss after obesity surgery can contribute to the
development of gallstones as well by increasing the lithogenicity of
bile. Adverse effects on the kidneys have been studied. Hyperoxaluria
that can potentially lead to oxalate nephropathy and irreversible
renal failure is the most significant abnormality seen on urine
chemistry studies.Rhabdomyolysis leading to acute kidney injury, and
impaired renal handling of acid and base has been reported after
bypass surgery.[citation needed]

Nutritional derangements due to deficiencies of micronutrients like
iron, vitamin B12, fat soluble vitamins, thiamine, and folate are
especially common after malabsorptive bariatric procedures. Seizures
due to hyperinsulinemic hypoglycemia have been reported. Inappropriate
insulin secretion secondary to islet cell hyperplasia, called
pancreatic nesidioblastosis, might explain this syndrome.[33

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bariatric_surgery

I think just about anything is worth a try, before considering
bariatric surgery. Even the fat fast (under a doctor's supervision).

[...]
Before surgery there is no pain when eating. *After surgery if you eat
more than a certain amount there is severe pain and vomitting. *Much
worse pain than the hunger.

People on the fat fast report little hunger. *Same as folks who have had
surgery. *One is voluntary the other forced.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's ridiculous to compare an Atkins fat fast to
the diet of bariatric patients. They are told to basicly
ease back to a normal, healthy diet provided it
doesn't cause them any issues.

It basically requires a high protein diet.

"The post-bariatric surgery diet is often conducted in phases to give
you body time to heal and adjust to a new, smaller stomach. In the
initial days after your surgery, you will have liquids only, including
broth, juice, strained soup and protein drinks. This phase of your
diet is very low, if not no-carbohydrate. As your stomach beings to
heal, you can incorporate carbohydrate sources such as soft, blended
fruits and vegetables. These will be secondary, however, to protein
sources like egg whites and lean ground meats."

http://www.livestrong.com/article/47...low-carb-diet/

I see nothing that
says that diet is anything at all like a fat fast.

That's not what Doug is saying. He's saying a fat fast can (for some
people, at least) trigger the same metabolic changes that baraitric
surgery (apparently) triggers. And it can. Even very low-carb diets
can do that. So can other diets:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mar...b_1382236.html

In short, and in my opinion, bariatric surgery should be only be
considered after every other approach has failed.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman