Doug Freyburger wrote:
All well and good for those who never got fat in the first place.
Getting fat in the first place changes the situation. What once was
okay is no longer okay.

That may be your plan, but I'm not prepared to give up on fruits entirely. I
can do without all processed sugars and starches, but not fruit.

Bananas may be fine for those who have never gotten fat in the first place.
Getting fat in the first place changes that. That's how illnesses often work.
Obesity is a disfunction of the metabolism and one of the symptoms of
that disorder, for those of us who succeed with low carb, is that some
foods that were harmless before we got fat in the first place are now
harmful.

It highly depends on each individual. For some, fruit consumption does not
impede weight loss and is therefore not harmful. For others, even one bite of
fruit can bring about a stall. There are so many contributing factors toward
obesity that it is ludicrous to single out fruits as being harmful merely
because they contain sugars. Once again, look at the kinds of diets that have
produced obesity; they do not consist of natural, raw and obviously unsweetened
fruits. I entirely understand your position that tolerable foods become harmful
after we get fat. But, nearly everyone on any flavor of low-carb diet struggles
with the inescapable reality that they don't want to eat strictly low-carb for
the rest of their lives. This is why all low-carb plans eventually include
fruits, vegetables and even some whole grains in their maintenance phases. What
you're suggesting works in an induction phase, but is not meant to be followed
for years.

But just how beneficial are bananas even for those who have never got
fat in the first place? If we use the model of how foods work in the
wild then to eat bananas a person would have to search through a jungle
to find them. That includes climbing trees to evade leopards, throwing
sharp sticks at small animals, then encountering small numbers of banana
plants that happen to have non-ripe bananas ready for the eating.
That's not the story of a modern human eating a banana. And it's
definitely not the story of a modern human who has already gotten fat
and who therefore can't handle sugar in any quantity any more.

By the same token, we should not eat meat without first chasing and hunting it.
I love your double standard. When I suggest that fruits are entirely natural
foods meant to be eaten by humans and animals alike, you reply that we no
longer eat fruits under natural conditions. Yet, you have no problem eating
vast quantities of meat that is raised, slaughtered, packaged and sold under
entirely unnatural conditions previously unknown to humanity.

Someone who never got fat in the first place should not eat a pile of
bananas twice the size of their head because that much fruit will give
them the runs. Someone already fat and carb sensative should avoid the
first banana during their loss phases and possibly even during
maintenance depending on how carb sensative they are.


Finally, you're talking sense.

Orlando