On Aug 14, 3:46*am, Who_me? wrote:
On 14/08/11 2:27 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:

Who_me? wrote:

The high
incidence of kidney problems alone among those who rigidly adhere to Atkins
should be enough to warn most people off.

I considered a larger point by point reply but the above is all that
really needs to be addressed. *There are a handfull of signs that
someone is here just to troll.

If disagreeing with those who have a closed minded viewpoint is trolling
then yes, I am trolling.

* One is confusing the ketosis of a

successful hunter with the ketoacidosis of a diabetic.

One isn't at all.

One is lying
about Dr Atkins being overweight when he slipped on the ice and broke
his skull.

Who mentioned Atkins death?

One is mention of kidney problems. One is competitive body
builders or marathoners complaining that a plan that is explicitly not
for them is somehow flawed because it's beneficial for the other 99%
of the population because they think what works for 1% must be good
for the other 99%.

Think carefully about something. This is NOT an Atkins newsgroup, it is a
low carb newsgroup and there are all degrees of low carb. I am a low card
enthusiast, I blame the ubiquitous high carb food availability for most
obesity, most people eat far too much of it.

Think carefully about this. Atkins is probably the most widely known,
widely used and studied LC diet. It has been proven to both work
and be safe. So, coming into a LC newsgroup and calling it
ludicrously unhealthy and not expecting to be challenged on it
makes you either a troll or an idiot.



That does not mean that the
reverse must apply. A diet that is much lower in carbs, one that avoids
processed carbs and only accepts carbs from healthy amounts of fresh foods
and vegetables is sufficient to allow for a healthy body mass and
sufficient energy to maintain fitness.

That may be true for some people. For others, trying to just cut
back on carbs that way, without following the Atkins plan starting
with induction, will
lead to hunger, cravings and failure with the diet. Snobs like
you then look down on those people as failures due to lack
of willpower. Why, it worked for me.... Anyone for who that
doesn't work is just a weak person.

Also if that's sufficient and healthy, why does the Dukan diet,
which you endorse and claim is essentially what you do,
start as PURE PROTEIN?


In the 1970s when the Atkins plan well new the AMA went after him about
kidney damage. *His defense was simple - Show even one single case of
new kidney damage by a person who did not have previous kidney damage
who followed the directions in his books.

It was a defence that didn't work, there were and still are a great many
people who have suffered damage that could have been avoided if they had
not dropped to a dangerous level of carb intake.

What pure BS. Atkins has been around now for 40 years. Millions
of people have done it. If that were true, there would be plenty of
documented evidence of it. There were plenty of Drs and groups
out to get Atkins and if there was solid documented evidence,
we would have seen it by now. The fact that there is not, speaks
volumes.


Claiming that they already
had some degree of damage is disingenuous as all people have varying
degrees of kidney efficiency loss, particularly those who have no cared for
their health with regard to diet and exercise. When was the last time that
you had a full work-up?

Are you really that stupid? Accounting for those people who already
had kidney damage prior to doing Atkins is disingenuous? In fact, it
would
be dishonest NOT to account for that.




So I call BS on you two ways. *Falsehoods about kidneys.

Kidney problems on low carb diets are well known and discussed. It is not a
falsehood at all, it is a risk and one that is much higher if a person who
already has a small degree of kidney failure goes low carb. The only
bull**** here is from people like you who are in denial about Atkins who
think taht he was some type of miracle worker. He didn't develop "his"
diet, he just promoted it for financial reward. Diets like it have been
around since the eighteen hundreds.

And what did your boy Dukan do that's different? Looks to me like
he's doing the same thing with his diet that Atkins and everyone
else that's come up with a diet plan has done. And while we're
on Dukan, I call BS on you big time.
No further proof is needed to completely discredit you. You claimed
your personal diet was like his:

" I developed a diet that has kept me fit for decades, and
recently I have seen that it is very similar to the much vaunted Dr
Dukan's
diet. Strange thing that. "

It sure is strange. And I noticed that in my prior reply covering
this, you just completely edited it out. I can understand why,
because it exposes you as a fool. So, one more time let's
see what this Dukan diet is all about:


"http://www.dukandiet.com/The-Dukan-Diet/4-Phases


"Phase 1 - ATTACK
The Attack phase consists of pure protein and creates a kick-start
to
the diet. During this phase, you can eat 68 high-protein foods that
produce immediate and noticeable weight loss."

So, as I asked before, what the hell is up with that? You're
here advocating a diet which starts out with PURE PROTEIN.
Atkins starts out with unlimited protein and fat and 20g a day
of carbs. So, how can Atkins be causing kidney damage,
while Dukan is not?

Are you a troll or just stupid?



Also, Atkins WAS fat when he died, there had been a degree of controversy
when photos showing him to be overweight surfaced in the months before he
died. *Not so unusual - have you seen the fat photos of Jenny Craig?

Just like Doug thought, here we go with more lies about Atkins.
I saw Atkins many times on TV over the years. He was never
obese. He always looked good. He admitted that like many of
us he put on an additional 10 or 15 lbs at times. When he did
he'd restart induction and take it off.

The lies about him being overweight are based on his weight
at death after having been hospitalized, experiencing organ
failure, accumulating fluid and dying. Trolls like to try to spin
that into a slam against the Atkins diet. Hello troll.




*Irrelevancies about competitive body builders.

Why irrelevant? It isn't just people who are fat who look for optimum diets
- people like me are just as relevant as people like you. If a diet is
damaging to an athlete of any type, then it is not a good long term idea
for anyone.

Total nonsense. What you're claiming is that the Atkins diet
causes kidney damage, it's dangerous. All Doug pointed out
is that Atkins or any diet may not be appropriate for some people.
Endurance athletes may need 4000 calories a day. Does that
mean that is what's right and appropriate for the rest of us?
Does it make eating 2000 calories "ludicrously unhealthy"?

You claim to have a library full of books on dieting and health.
You even claim to have one by Gary Taubes. Funny though,
when Billy suggested you read one of Taubes works
you replied "Not interested, as everyone has their version of
what is good or bad. " Now call me crazy, but I would think
a person that knew who Taubes was and had his book
would have replied "I've read Taubes and...." So, I call BS
on you again.

About the only thing I do believe is that you may write
articles for the mainstream media. I believe that because
the lies, distortion and ignorance that you have demonstrated
here regarding LC and Atkins in particular is very typical in
the media.