WeightLossBanter - View Single Post

**Who_me?** · August 14th, 2011, 05:27 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb

On 14/08/11 11:04 PM, wrote:

Think carefully about something. This is NOT an Atkins newsgroup, it is a
low carb newsgroup and there are all degrees of low carb. I am a low card
enthusiast, I blame the ubiquitous high carb food availability for most
obesity, most people eat far too much of it.

Think carefully about this. Atkins is probably the most widely known,
widely used and studied LC diet. It has been proven to both work
and be safe. So, coming into a LC newsgroup and calling it
ludicrously unhealthy and not expecting to be challenged on it
makes you either a troll or an idiot.

Atkins is widely known, and widely disputed, pilloried and slammed by not
just people like me but by the medical profession - Atkins peers - by
research organisations like Harvard, by Government bodies, by nutritionists
and media. It always has been, right from his very first book release. If
you aren't aware of that then you must be living in a cave.

That does not mean that the
reverse must apply. A diet that is much lower in carbs, one that avoids
processed carbs and only accepts carbs from healthy amounts of fresh foods
and vegetables is sufficient to allow for a healthy body mass and
sufficient energy to maintain fitness.

That may be true for some people. For others, trying to just cut
back on carbs that way, without following the Atkins plan starting
with induction, will
lead to hunger, cravings and failure with the diet. Snobs like
you then look down on those people as failures due to lack
of willpower. Why, it worked for me.... Anyone for who that
doesn't work is just a weak person.

Yep. That is EXACTLY what I think. Many people are weak willed. Even people
who I love and care about number among them. My approach is to work on that
will, not take away the temptation with diets that kill appetite. Why not
have your taste buds lasered off?

Also if that's sufficient and healthy, why does the Dukan diet,
which you endorse and claim is essentially what you do,
start as PURE PROTEIN?

Because it doesn't stay that way, and it varies during the week.

In the 1970s when the Atkins plan well new the AMA went after him about
kidney damage. His defense was simple - Show even one single case of
new kidney damage by a person who did not have previous kidney damage
who followed the directions in his books.

It was a defence that didn't work, there were and still are a great many
people who have suffered damage that could have been avoided if they had
not dropped to a dangerous level of carb intake.

What pure BS. Atkins has been around now for 40 years. Millions
of people have done it. If that were true, there would be plenty of
documented evidence of it.

There is, and Atkins had to fight it. The Atkins group's response was that
the damage already existed and that the diet only exacerbated it, it didn't
cause it. That is true, but no overweight adult has perfect kidney
function, so in effect that response is disingenuous.

There were plenty of Drs and groups
out to get Atkins and if there was solid documented evidence,
we would have seen it by now. The fact that there is not, speaks
volumes.

You are unlikely to see anything if you don't want to look for it.

"Phase 1 - ATTACK
The Attack phase consists of pure protein and creates a kick-start
to
the diet. During this phase, you can eat 68 high-protein foods that
produce immediate and noticeable weight loss."

So, as I asked before, what the hell is up with that? You're
here advocating a diet which starts out with PURE PROTEIN.

I am not advocating it. I simply noted that the ongoing diet, the
stabilisation stage is nearly identical to my own. I have not tried it,
though I have read copies of all the books - even the original French.

Atkins starts out with unlimited protein and fat and 20g a day
of carbs. So, how can Atkins be causing kidney damage,
while Dukan is not?

It is the duration. Read more about Dukan.

Are you a troll or just stupid?

Neither. I am a Mensa member and disagreeing with someone is not trolling.

Also, Atkins WAS fat when he died, there had been a degree of controversy
when photos showing him to be overweight surfaced in the months before he
died. Not so unusual - have you seen the fat photos of Jenny Craig?

Just like Doug thought, here we go with more lies about Atkins.
I saw Atkins many times on TV over the years. He was never
obese. He always looked good. He admitted that like many of
us he put on an additional 10 or 15 lbs at times. When he did
he'd restart induction and take it off.

The lies about him being overweight are based on his weight
at death after having been hospitalized, experiencing organ
failure, accumulating fluid and dying. Trolls like to try to spin
that into a slam against the Atkins diet. Hello troll.

Do you take gullibility pills? If that was the case, why don't all corpses
of people who die after hospitalisation gain weight over their initial weight?

The controversy started BEFORE he died, before he went into hospital after
a photo of him was circulated showing a huge weight gain. The Atkins group
claim that it was a Photoshopped image. Maybe it was, but his autopsy
photos weren't.

Irrelevancies about competitive body builders.

Why irrelevant? It isn't just people who are fat who look for optimum diets
- people like me are just as relevant as people like you. If a diet is
damaging to an athlete of any type, then it is not a good long term idea
for anyone.

Total nonsense. What you're claiming is that the Atkins diet
causes kidney damage, it's dangerous. All Doug pointed out
is that Atkins or any diet may not be appropriate for some people.
Endurance athletes may need 4000 calories a day. Does that
mean that is what's right and appropriate for the rest of us?
Does it make eating 2000 calories "ludicrously unhealthy"?

Then why are you trying to convince me that it is good? If it is bad for a
person in good health, one who lives a healthy lifestyle with lots of
exercise, how can it be good for someone who is effectively a walking heart
attack, a diabetic or pre-diabetic (as many if not most overweight people
are), someone who is weak physically?

Why do you ignore research that challenges Atkins. Research such as the
tests on huge increases in methylglyoxal levels in people who are in
ketosis? Those increased levels do damage to blood vessels and to nerve
tissue.

Most research in Atkins concludes that low carb increases health, but not
when low enough to cause ketosis.

Why does the American Heart Association warn that Atkins style diets
increase the risk of heart disease?

You claim to have a library full of books on dieting and health.
You even claim to have one by Gary Taubes. Funny though,
when Billy suggested you read one of Taubes works
you replied "Not interested, as everyone has their version of
what is good or bad. " Now call me crazy, but I would think
a person that knew who Taubes was and had his book
would have replied "I've read Taubes and...." So, I call BS
on you again.

You can call all you like, in fact sing and yodel if that pleases you. Gary
Taubes is just one among several hundred, and did not rate highly with me.
Not because it was so bad, but because it was all old hat. there are only a
few that I rank highly, either for good value and real reporting of proper
research, or for nonsense and distortion and wild claims.

About the only thing I do believe is that you may write
articles for the mainstream media. I believe that because
the lies, distortion and ignorance that you have demonstrated
here regarding LC and Atkins in particular is very typical in
the media.

Atkins did a lot distortion of facts, he didn't invent the diet, he tried
it in order to manage his own weight, was initially successful and wrote a
book about it.

BTW, if Atkins is still as popular as you claim, why did the Atkins group
file for bankruptcy protection six years ago? They claimed at the time that
the diet and the sale of products relating to it had fallen to almost zero.
In your world are they are wrong too?

I know a lot of people who are eating some variation of a low carb diet, I
don't know any who are still using Atkins. That seemd to die out several
years ago. There are lots of healthier options that are just as effective.
Dukan is just one of them. The Dukan diet is not new, it has been around
since the eighties, it is just new outside France.