"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Slider wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: Slider wrote:
::::: I've been LCing for over a year and lost 50lbs. About 5-6 weeks
::::: ago,
::::: I started riding an Aerodyne bike (stationary, 25 mins at 65RPM,
::::: about 350 cal.) and doing upper body free weights with a small
::::: Bodysmith setup I have. I waited until now to start weights
::::: because
::::: I knew I would gain weight...it's a psychological thing even
::::: though
::::: I know it's not fat, it's still weight, right?
:::
::: No.....and weight gain is not a given, either.
:::
:::::
::::: My goal is to lose a total of 65lbs, but since I've been doing the
::::: cardio and weights, my weight has crept up about 10lbs. I know
::::: that
::::: is to be expected with the weight lifting due to water retention
::::: by the muscles (the glycogen is to blame there, I believe),
:::
::: How is glycogen to blame if you're LCing? There could be some LBM
::: added that is not muscle but is also not fat. That is typically a
::: good thing.
:::
:: It was my understanding that when LCing, muscles retain glycogen and
:: for each molecule of glycogen, there are 5 molecules of water
:: attached to it. Thus the gain of "water weight".



If you're really LCing and exercising, then your glycogen stores will tend
to run low, so you'll be a glycogen depleted state, and thus not hold
water
weight. It is when you consume carbs that the glucose gets stored as
glycogen in the muscles (and liver it of you consume fruit sugar). Then,
because the glycogen pulls water in too, you gain water weight, not fat.

So, if you're really LCing, doing cardio and weight lifting, you should
NOT
be holding water weight due to weight lifting, in general.


::
::: but can the
::::: rest due to increased lean muscle mass? I suppose if the water
::::: accounted for 4-5 lbs, then the rest *could* be additional muscle
::::: weight.
:::
::: It's hard to say...you likely added some muscle and other LBM, but
::: with that amount of cardio and only 6 weeks I doubt you've gained 5
::: to 6 lbs of muscle.
:::
:: LBM? Lean Body Mass?

Yes.

::
::: My goal with the weights is to simply TONE, not add bulk.
::::: ****, I was *bulky* for 20 years. Lean is what I'm aiming for.
:::
::: Well, lean does not imply bulky...and having tone doesn't imply
::: bulk. You don't state what you weigh, so we can't know what this 10
::: lbs really means...if you weigh 350 then this might be a drop in
::: the bucket, but if you weigh 120 then you might want to consider
::: some other tactics.
:::
:: Good point. I was 190 before starting weights and am now 200. I'd
:: like to be about 180. I'm 5'10' with a large frame.

I'm wondering if you're getting extra carbs from somewhere.

::
:::::
::::: Anyhow....to my question: For the last 4 months prior to reaching
::::: 50lbs, I basically plateaued and despite waiting for 2 months and
::::: trying induction again, I was not able to "re-start" my weight
::::: loss.
:::
::: Induction does not automatically generate weight loss. You need to
::: pay attention to how much you eat vs how much your burn. Many
::: LCers find that as they lose more and more weight they have to pay
::: attention to how much they eat and not just how many carbs.
::: Welcome to success via LC dieting. You aren't alone.
:::
:: For me it generated the vast majority of my weight loss and I found
:: it very easy to stick to. I want to kick my body back into ketosis
:: and "purge" any water weight that I may have gained do to
:: not-so-strict-LCing for the past little while.

Not-so-strict-LCing? Perhaps I missed that part before. if you've been
eating extra carbs, then you're retaining water. If that's the case, I
would not worry about losing it and just concentrate on losing more
bodyfat.

OTOH, if scale weight is all that's important to you, doing induction
right
would squeeze out the glycogen from the muscles. You can also do glycogen
depletion workouts in the gym -- lots of sets and about 70% max. Doing
leg
work really helps there, too, as those big leg muscles can retain a lot of
water.

not-so-strict = occasional beer. I mean, I'm in maintencance mode so I am
quote regimented still.
::
::::: Now that I've gained a few pounds with the weight lifting, I'm
::::: thinking of trying induction again (basically attempting to fool
::::: my body into thinking it's gained fat, when in fact, it has not).
:::
::: ??? Have you done bodyfat measurements?
:::
:: It's on my list. I realize it's the only true measurement of my
:: success and plan on visiting a gym very soon to have a benchmark
:: established.
::
::::: I know that LC and weight lifting, when the goal is mass, is not
::::: recommended, but as long as I keep the caloric intake up, am not
::::: wasted after each cycling/lifting session (weights are M,W,F and
::::: bike is Mon-Sat), should I be able to achieve both stated goals of
::::: fat loss via LC and cardio and muscle toning via weights?
:::
::: Fat loss one way or another will lead to what you refer to as
::: toning. Weights will help either increase muscle mass and/or
::: prevent loss of muscle. Fat loss with make whatever muslce you have
::: look more evident enhancing what you refer to as tone. The
::: combination of dieting, weight lifting, and cardio should give you
::: the results you seek (though not for the reasons you mention). You
::: have not commented on your eating other than to mention carbs
::: (induction), so that suggests to me that you might simply be eating
::: too much. When people begin doing more exercise it is quite common
::: to want to eat more. If you aren't tracking specifically, then
::: your eating might have increased slowly without your noticing.
:::
:: My caloric intake is approx. 1200-1500 per day, but still following
:: LC woe.

1200/190 = 6.3x
1500/190 = 7.9 or 8x.

Try to stay up around 8x.

Will do.

::::: I didn't include my exact weight routine, but if need be, I can
::::: post it.
:::
::: I don't think that is as important as how much you're eating. Of
::: course, only doing upper body causes me to have some concerns about
::: your routine. If you're large, there should be a lot of muscle mass
::: in your legs and butt and you need to be lifting with them.
:::
:: I have very large, muscular, well defined legs from years of hockey
:: and soccer. They have never been a problem and frankly, don't need
:: work.

I disagree. Muscular legs burn calories. With your calorie consumption,
they won't get any bigger...but they can get stronger and by exercising
them
with weights you'll increase your metabolism. The result is that after
your
weight training sessions, for as many as 12 hours after, your body will
burn
more calories. if you control your eating, your weight loss will
increase.
Not training your lower body is working agaisnt you.

AS I mentioned before, if you have muscular legs, they can retain a lot of
water weight if you're eating enough carbs to keep glycogen refilled.

My butt is also not an issue (for me). I lost about 6" on my
:: waist and considerably reduced my "seat" size by swimming when I
:: initially started LCing. I swam 5 days a week for about 6 months.


Again, the butt muscles are large and strong. Use movements in the gym
that
work them. As long as you diet for weight loss, they won't grow.

Will do.


:: The upper body is more important to me because of the excess skin
:: from the weight loss, and while I'm 38 and realize that my skin is
:: not as elastic as it used to be, the decrease of fat and better
:: defining of the muscles will certainly improve myself esteem.

You won't see much improvement in terms of muscle size while you're
dieting.
Keep working to lose the bodyfat, but if you want to add muscle, you'll
have to oneday consider eating to gain weight, hopefully muscle moreso
than
fat (with proper weight training).

::
::: Just as a example, when I started lifting (I had already been doing
::: cardio), I didn't lose for 3 months. But the reason was simply
::: that I was eating more food - specically nuts. Heavy exercise does
::: that. AFter a while, I made adjustments.
:::
Hey....my favorite snack is almonds. My wife figures I eat about a Costco
bag a week. Maybe I'll start cutting back on those.

::: I'll tell you also that sometimes doing less exercise can help you
::: control appetite. Alternatively, in time, as you adapt to the
::: exercise load, you should be able to control your eating better.
::: IME.
:::
::: I suggest you use fitday to track your total eating for a week or
::: two, without trying to change how much you eat (careful: just
::: tracking will cause you to be more conscious). Once you get a good
::: notion of how much you're eating, start dropping the amount. It's
::: hard to give any guidelines on how much to drop, since you haven't
::: given any information on who much you weigh, how tall you are, your
::: frame size, whether you're a man or a woman, etc. So sound like a
::: woman (no insult intended), but I might be wrong. Anywho, via
::: exercise and diet, you need to create a 3500 calorie deficit over a
::: week to lose 1 lb. So use that in your thinking. Between 1 and
::: 1.25 lbs a week is a reasonable number to shoot for, unless you
::: weigh 350 or more, in which case you can lose faster. I take it
::: that you have about 25 lbs more to lose, so don't expect fast
::: results unless you really push hard, which is not recommended.
:::
:: I have been using Fitday, although not a regularly as I should be to
:: track this. According to FitDay, I burn 2100 calories per week by
:: cycling. 1050 calories per week by weight lifting (more if you
:: consider the lasting effects after lifting).

Fitday's numbers are high for exercise, IMO. Use them as a guide to track
relative activity levels, but don't live by them.


If I select a sedentary
:: lifestyle (bed-bound), which I am not, but it's the only setting
:: that gives reasonable figures, my week looks like this:
::
:: Weekly Caloric burn:
:: Basal: 8288
:: Lifestyle: 2590
:: Activities: 3150
:: TOTAL: 14028
::
:: Weekly caloric intake @ 1500cal/day: 10500
::
:: Net difference: -3528
::
:: It seems I am burning the requisite number of calories to lose
:: weight....unless I'm calcualting it wrong or FitDay numbers are
:: complete BS.

Well, the activity numbers are way high.

::
:: So, the numbers say I should be losing weight, but my scale says
:: otherwise. :-(

Okay, how many carbs are you eating? ARe you eating any LC sweets? It
could
be that you've gained some water weight due to increased carbs. Your
bodyfat might not have changed much at all. If that's the case, then
creating more of a calorie deficit ought to be the way to go. Squeezing
out
water weight by lowering carbs won't do jack for your bodyfat, it will
only
make the scales give numbers that make you happy. That's false, IMO. In
any case, train your legs and lower body...that will help retain that
muscle
and it will also speed glycogen depletion so you can drop water
weight...and
it will burn calories so you can lose fat.


Typical daily menu: Scrambled eggs with ham, onions and green pepper and
melted cheese with 3 pieces of bacon and tea for b'fast. Kolbassa, cheese
and a few small crackers or an LC wrap with ham/cheese, etc for lunch and
bbq steak, pork chops, chicken, etc with salad for dinner. A fair amount of
water throughout the day, but no where near what I used to drink. In between
meal snacks are typically almonds or some cheese or some kind of kolbassa,
garlic coil sausage or the like.

I'll also have a Guinness draft every-now-and-again.

That's pretty much it!

I start working on my legs and hold off on induction. I'll also start
closely monitoring my intake and track it all on FitDay.

Thanks for your insight and suggestions Roger. Most appreciated.