On Aug 2, 8:14*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:24:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
[...]
Another outrageous lie. It's been demonstrated both
in the lab and in patients that HIV kills T cells. Just
like holocaust deniers saying Auschwitz never existed.
It's not a legitimate debate when you refuse to accept
the most basic proven facts.
"People with AIDS are indeed losing t-cells. Because these were the
cells that HIV effects, it was ASSUMED that HIV was the culprit. But
Retroviruses do not kill their hosts. Only under rare laboratory
conditions is it possible to make HIV kill its host cell.
Continuing to lie doesn't make it true....
Continuing to lie may not make it "true," but as Hitler once said: the
use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone
"could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." And asGoebbels wrote: "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the
truth."
Yes, those are your tactics exactly. Claiming for example
that lack of sleep causes AIDS.
Be
And that's exactly what many "scientists" rely on. Useful idiots like
yourself. You can (well, maybe not you, but intelligent people can)
see this axiom at work every single day, expecially in the fields of
virology and climatology.
[...]
The HIV virus apparently does invade those T cells, but the cells
somehow block virus replication.It is the byproducts of that aborted
infection that trigger an immune response that is ultimately
responsible for killing those cells"
That's known in scientific circles as psychobabble. *Akin to your
"mysterious effect" *regarding bariatric surgery, etc.
Gobbledygook!
Of course just like all denialists you reject all sound
AIDS/HIV research by world class AIDS researchers
because it exposes your lies like "lack of sleep
causes AIDS".
Truth is, HIV is not a killer virus.
Truth is you're a liar.
Truth is you're a lying asshole, with the IQ of a fence post.
Who should we believe,
Robert Gallo and Montagnier, or you?
That's like saying, who should we believe, all the other scientists,
or Galileo?
I'm going with Galileo.
See, here is the essential difference.
Galileo had PROOF for what he was claiming. What he
was claiming was supported by DATA. What he claimed
could be confirmed by simple studies. Now, where
exactly is your data? I've asked 50 times now for a
study. Crickets...... Find the one that shows AIDS
is caused by sleep or too much sex.
Besides, Gallo has been convicted twice of scientific misconduct and
fraud, and Montagnier says that HIV, by itself, can't cause AIDS.
The above is yet another lie. Gallo was never convicted of
anything, nor was he even charged. He was accused of
misrepresenting the use that he made of viral material sent
to him by Montagnier. The issue was heard by a govt
scientific review panel, not a court. They decided that Gallo
had made a misrepresentation. A year later it was appealed
and the appeal found Gallo had not committed any
misconduct. That was the end of the issue. And
as always, I have the references to back it up, in
this case the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/26/ma...ted=all&src=pm
Method and Madness; The Vindication of Robert Gallo
By Nicholas Wade
Published: December 26, 1993
"As a Government appeals board concluded last month: "One might
anticipate that from all this evidence, after all the sound and fury,
there would be at least a residue of palpable wrongdoing. That is not
the case."
Now as to Montagnier, lets look at the clearest thing in
evidence as to his position on what the cause of AIDS
is. Celia Farber wrote a denialist article for Harper
magazine in 2006, making many of the same arguments
that you and the rest of the denialists make.
It was promptly taken apart
by scientists one after the other as being factually
incorrect, biased and flat out wrong. Letter after
letter poured in to Harpers denouncing it and
questining why Harpers did not even do a
decent fact check on it. One of
those letters was a joint letter signed by Gallo
and Montagnier, the co-discoverers
of HIV. Here is what they said in that letter:
http://www.aidstruth.org/denialism/harpers-farber#a16
"Indeed, both of us have contributed to the identification of such
factors but this does not put into question that HIV alone is the
cause of AIDS. We hope to dispel another point of confusion. It is
said that some AIDS patients are HIV negative (an argument made by
those who deny the role of HIV in AIDS). This is not the case. First,
false negative results are extremely rare nowadays when trained
personnel carry out modern diagnostic assays in properly equipped
laboratories. Second, there are other causes of severe immune
deficiency, such as extreme radiation exposure and rare genetic
diseases, just like a severe sore throat can be caused not only by
streptococcus, pneumonia not only by pneumococcus, and lung cancer not
only by smoking. However, the appearance of a new immune deficiency,
AIDS, on an unprecedented, pandemic scale was caused by the spread of
HIV within the human population."
So, if you want to hang your hat on those two guys...
You were hanging yours on Montagnier, using a video
where a denialist journalist baits him along, in English,
which isn't his native language. But there is absolutely
no doubt about his position in the above letter.
Montagnier leaves no wiggle room. He says HIV ALONE
IS THE CAUSE OF AIDS. Read it and stop lying.
because those partners are long-term drug abusers, too, etc.
Oh, really? *So now AIDS can be acquired not by
abusing drugs yourself, but simply by being gay and
having a partner who is a drug abuser?
Yes. Through anal sex, the exchange of bodily fluids (including
blood), etc.
Well, if it's not HIV that's causing AIDS, that's one
hell of an interesting concept. Tell us more?
Through what agent then does this occur? This is
about as bizarre as bizarre gets.
But it's not AIDS that is acquired, it's ANTIBODIES to HIV. Then AIDS,
Inc. kills them both with AIDS drugs. More slowly, these days, but
still ever so surely.
Sure, how dumb would one have to be to believe that?
We had the AIDS patients in the first few years dying one
after the other, despite the fact that THERE WERE NO AIDS
drugs. We have your denialist friends today refusing to
take any AIDS drugs and they are mostly dying at 30.
We have people in third world countries who have no
access to AIDS drugs dying. We saw what happened
in South Africa under Mbeki when that country refused
to provide AIDS drugs to patients. They died.
Unbelievable and again actually worse than the lies of
holocaust deniers because it will kill people today who
follow these lies.
See: gay liberation, Stonewall riots, etc.,
See world encyclopedia and realize that AIDS and
HIV exist on every continent, in every country.
What? *We're the only country that has homosexuals? The only country
that abuses drugs?
Anyone except a bigot knows that tens of millions of
people of various backgrounds have died from AIDS.
And only a bigot would try to somehow link it to gay
liberation.
Again this is what is offensive. *The rest of us
see a woman infected with HIV by a partner that
she didn't know had HIV. * It's tragic, but we know how
it happens.
Yes, it is tragic, because now they are going to start giving her AIDS
drugs, which will KILL her. And it's all unnecessary!
You denialists have to call her
a liar or secret drug addict or prostitute.
What? *People who test positive for HIV don't lie? *Just the rest of
us can be liars, right? Is that yet another "mysterious" effect of
HIV? *It makes you tell the truth?
Some of them might, sure. But denialists like you
need to make all of them out as liars in a desperate
attempt to explain AIDS absent the truth that it's
caused by HIV. And that makes you worse than a
holocaust denier and an obvious bigot.