On Aug 2, 4:45*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:41:44 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger

wrote:

[...]

The principle anchors the comforting American belief that personal
responsibility explains all of our ills.

If personal responsibility worked you could go to the mall and not see
fat people.

I don't know exactly what you mean by that, Doug. How does "personal
responsibility" not work?

What he means and which I agree with is that clearly it usually
doesn't work in practice. A lot of people try to excercise personal
responsibility when it comes to dieting. They try a variety
of diets and still fail because in the end, it's very difficult. And
choosing say a low fat diet instead of a low carb one just
makes it a lot harder.


On the other hand, either you accept
personal responsibility for your actions, or you don't. Those who do,
don't usually have these problems.

That's like saying if you fall into a well, personal
responsibility will get you out.



Humans instinctively crave food that is carby, fat and salty. *The carby
part is addictive so products stress carbs. *Chemicals other than sodium
chloride can be added to alt to increase appetite. *Companies don't even
have to have a deliberate plan to take advantage of these instinctive
cravings. *All companies need to do is make more of the products that
sell better, make less of the products that sell worse, keep trying
variations on products to continue development to incrase profitability.
Any product that hits the instinctive human cravings will sell better.
Any product that triggers addictive behavior patterns will sell better.
The market will tune the rest until we have vast numbers of fat people
even wtihout any intent for that to happen.

Well, you've identified the problem, but...

Yes the problem for you is that Doug apparently doesn't
buy your vast evil conspiracy theory either. Companies are
simply producing the products that people want. It';s
how the free market works.




It validates all that wasted
time on the treadmill that people like Kolata and others endorse.

Exercise is beneficial for other reasons.

You bet. *But it doesn't really help anyone lose weight, and can even
help to increase your weight, chance of injury, etc.

Which of course is nonsense. That's your problem in general.
You take something that has a bit of validity and then run it out
to extremes, turn it into nonsense, and disregard the mountain of
evidence that says you're wrong.

You brought up The Biggest Loser show. What exactly
is going on there? They are losing weight at fantastic
rates on a variety of diets and a lot of it is because they
are excercising at levels few ordinary folks would ever
reach. They also have a huge support and motivation
system that almost no one else excercising "personal
responsibility" has. Maybe you should try excersice
and see the effects. I have and it works.





Better to lose
the weight first, primarily through diet and very moderate (safe)
exercise, then, once the weight is lost, decide on what kind of
exercise is right for you.

First you argue that excercise doesn't do any good
and can make you gain weight, now you're endorsing
some excercise. I don't know of any health authority
that says excercise has to be "very moderate" for
the typical person trying to lose weight. You have a
source for that?




It keeps us watching shows like The Biggest Loser.

Think of how these folks work. *When they are not doing other exercise
they are on treadmills to fill out 16 hour days. *it comes down to "A
marathon is a pound of fat". *They keep these folks doing at least that
much work every day. *They do it to the exclusion of their jobs and away
from their families. *They don't do it as their "job". *They do it as
their "life".

Yeah, and it's sad to watch.

Then don't watch it. But don't come in here and
claim that it doesn't work during the course of the
show.




It leaves the door
open to low-calorie, high-carbohydrate food products that make the
economy hum, are portable, do not require we learn to cook, make
children stop crying, and taste good. Any efforts at reporting science
to the contrary will always have a rough road."

And all that industry need do is observe what sells well, make more of
it, and advertise it. *No ulterior motives othe than profit are needed..

Yep. *GREED kills.

Yes, and greed has also produced everything from all
the drugs that have saved the lives of hundreds of millions to the
iPhone.