On Aug 3, 1:39*pm, Dogman wrote:

But whether taking personal responsibilty is "practical," is a moot
point.

It's not a moot point because it's obviously not
working for the vast majority of people and we have
an obesity epidemic.



It doesn't work

Of course it does! The evidence is all around you!

The fat people you see haven't taken responsibility.

The healthy and fit people you see, have.

Uh huh and the obese ones are growing in numbers
each year. So, personal responsibility is not working
for most people. That is the point Doug is making
too.



OK. *We have people who are personally responsible
in all other aspects of their lives. *They have good jobs.
They pay their bills. *They put their kids through school.
The stay out of trouble with the law. *So, clearly most
people out there have a high degree of personal
responsibility.

But we're not talking about those things! *We're talking about taking
responsibilty for your own health, your own weight, etc.

We are talking about it now because I brought it up.
I gave those as obvious examples that show most
people do have a considerable amount of personal
responsibility. Hence, it's also obvious that when
it comes to diet and food it's beyond the level of
personal responsibility that works with keeping a
job, paying bills, raising kids, etc.

In other words the biological urges governing eating
and weight are so strong that saying all that's
needed is personal responsibility doesn't work for
most people when it comes to diet.




The obvious point is that the level of personal
responsibility that you require them to have, is
impossible for most people.

I don't believe that. Sorry.

That's OK, given all the nonsense that you believe,
like HIV doesn't cause AIDS and that no
virus can cause cancer, that is actually a comfort.



It's like alcohol and drug addiction. Until someone hits bottom and
finally decides that the pain and misery just isn't worth it, he
remains addicted. Some people just don't make it. That's life.

It's not just some people. It's a growing obesity epidemic
that gets worse each year. As for the alcohol comparison,
let's make the correct comparison. The
level of personal responsibility you think people are
capable of is like having an alcoholic patronize a
bar every night, take two drinks, and not wind up
binging and getting drunk. Doing that night after night
with all his old friends.

Because that is exactly what the obese person trying
to diet has to do. Unlike an alcoholic, they can't just
avoid food. They can't avoid eating food with their
family and friends either.

You think maybe, just maybe, that's why personal
responsibility is failing?





Throwing one's hands in the air and giving up is the personification
of not taking responsibility.

And tilting at windmills,

What's foolish about realizing that you *must* keep trying, do more
research, etc. to maintain one's health?

It's foolish when you have a public health crisis and
that approach clearly isnt' working.



To do otherwise is to admit defeat before you even start.

It's not like we're just starting. We have 3 decades of failure
with obesity getting significantly worse each year.





If you don't eat properly, you can exercise until the
cows come how, and you won't lose much if any weight.

BS. *The Nazi concentration camps proved that.

How exactly did concentration camps prove that??? *They were starved,
they lost almost all of their weight (virtual skeletons), and most
died. What should they have been doing? Running marathons?

They proved it by the fact that they were doing hard
forced labor, eating little and losing weight. You claimed
that excercise without eating right won't cause weight
loss. They were not eating right, doing forced excercise
and they lost a lot of weight.

QED




Yes, it works, but it doesn't make you lose weight.

You just agreed above that it did make people
lose weight on Biggest Loser.

They diet! They lose weight from dieting!

Oh, I see now it's back to they only lost weight
due to dieting, not from excercise. But wait....
You claimed they should have put on weight from
the excercise. Confused again.



First you argue that excercise doesn't do any good
and can make you gain weight, now you're endorsing
some excercise.

Of course I endorse exercise, you moron! But not to lose weight! We
should exercise to become more fit, etc.

The vast majority of us are not even fit enough to exercise, because
we're so overweight that anything but walking short distances is
dangerous to our joints, our heart, etc.

Speak for yourself. *If you're so fat you can't
excercise, that's an issue of personal responsibility....

Exactly!

Well, I'm sorry to hear you say that you're so fat
you can't excercise, but I'm not surprised either.