On May 25, 3:03*pm, James Warren wrote:
On 5/25/2012 3:56 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:





James Warren wrote:
Walter Bushell wrote:
* *James * wrote:

The Battle of the Diets: Is Anyone Winning (At Losing?)
...
The interesting thing is that low carb is never worse than
any other diet on weight loss or any measure of risk.

No surprise to any of us here.

More studies of this kind might sway the medical establishment
and the ADA.

Not likely.

Don't give up so easily. It is worth a try.

The way to sway the medical establishment is to teach low carb in
medical school. *That has started to happen.

Aside from fiscal considerations the sheer shock of
knowing that you have disabled or even killed people with you dietary
and medical advice precludes most of the people involved from seeing
the truth. This goes triple for the bariatric surgery enthusiasts, who

Think of the fear of medical malpractice. *The evidence has been
overwhelming for decades.

At the end of the video he says that the ADA has begrudgingly sanctioned
LC diets if people can't comply with LF diets saying compliance trumps diet.

Compliance is vastly important. *Any plan that drives people off it is a
failed plan. *A percentage of the population does fine on low fat but
low fat drives very many off. *When I tried low fat I was hungry
constantly until I relented.

But there is more to it than compliance. *There is the long term
results. Poor compliance to low fat is one of the starting points that
pointed Dr Atkins to low carb. He saw many of his heart patients fail
to comply even though it would cost them their lives to fail. Then he
started noticing that the few who did/could comply got worse results
after 6+ month on low fat.

abhor low carb prior to the surgery and mandate it afterwards. Perhaps
bariatric surgery "works" by enforcing a low carb diet.

The way I understand it bariatric surgery works by causing drastic
changes in several hormone levels like ghrelin, PYY and GLP-1.

Which is a cause and which is the effect? *It is certain that bariatric
surgery makes total adherence to low carb mandatory.

Why? I hadn't heard that at all.

The change in hormones is immediate presumably because most of the
stomach is bypassed and is not stimulated by eating.


I agree. It's apparent that a lot more is going on
here than bariatric surgery forcing a LC diet. There
have been studies that show that within a day or two
of the surgery being performed people who were
diabetic revert to normal and no longer need
medication. Research is going on right
now to determine exactly why as it could lead to a
major breakthrough in how to treat diabetes.
As you suggest, one prime candidate is the effect
it has on hormones.



What if those same
people had tried total adherence to low carb before surgery?

I know we can't know that. *It's like saying everyone in a concentration
camp loses weight. *It's true but it's not relevant to dieting.

There should be suspicions though. *The diet shortly after bariatric
surgery, doesn't it remind you of the test cases in the original fat
fast experiment?

Again, what diet change is mandated by the surgery?

There are definitely guidelines for what is suggested
for people to eat long term following the surgery. But
I'm not aware of anything that forces people to eat LC.
And even if there are recommendations, we all know
how well those work. Most people are going to revert
to eating what they like as long as it doesn't make them
feel ill. And again, I see nothing that says those with
surgery will be forced to eat LC due to the surgery.
In fact, some of what I've seen argues exactly the
opposite, ie that some vegs high in fiber, too much
fat, may cause problems for them.