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Oh Nuts!



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 3rd, 2010, 03:53 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
jay[_2_]
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Posts: 68
Default Oh Nuts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo

Very interesting presentation, especially coming from a veteran
vegetarian. Atkins improved all risk factors the most: -weight, -BP, -
LDL, -TG and +HDL. He did try to explain it away by saying people on
Atkins drank the most water which can reduce appetite.
  #12  
Old August 3rd, 2010, 04:26 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
jay[_2_]
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Posts: 68
Default Oh Nuts!

*... I tried cashews and they were gone. *
Then I tried pecans, hazel/filberts and walnuts and I didn't
touch them. *So now I tend to keep pecans, hazels/filberts and walnuts
on hand and not get cashews.


It's funny you mentioned cashews as it is the first thing I would
devour at our health food store, if I were accidentally locked in
there overnight.

... If you're typically eating 50-100 grams of protein
per day it's doubtful you are triggering starvation cravings. Below
that you should look for the book Protein Power by Drs Eades and work
through the directions to figure out your daily minimum protein grams.


While not a strategy for the long run, I was trying to see what a 5%
protein diet would do. I lost a bit of muscle mass. I suspect, it was
the protein (esp from chicken) and the carbs from nuts that catapulted
my weight.
  #13  
Old August 4th, 2010, 03:29 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Oh Nuts!

jay wrote:
Robert Miles wrote:

Following a low-carb diet seems to help control both my
diabetes and my appetite.


Yup, apparently exceeding some magical number of carbs throws my
hunger in high gear.


The lack of carb cravings on a low carb diet may be the single
biggest advantage in all of diet-land. Carb cravings are intense
but they go away completely after the body's "carb tank" empties.
Unfortunately it's a lot easier to turn the cravings back on than
it is to turn them off - It can happen with as little as a single high
carb meal if the type of carbs is chosen poorly.

When you do the numbers a low carb plan is going to be high
fat. Avoiding carbs tends to mean replacing some/most/all with
fat calories. Fat cravings are mild but they never go away. It's
what gradually drives so many people off of low fat plans. While
low carbing there are no fat cravings either. Fortunately a few
days of avoiding fat isn't generally enough to trigger fat cravings
but there are people who don't do the arithmetic, don't believe
the directions, who do avoid fat also and end up with fat cravings.
  #14  
Old August 4th, 2010, 03:56 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Oh Nuts!

jay wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo


Very interesting presentation, especially coming from a veteran
vegetarian. Atkins improved all risk factors the most: -weight, -BP, -
LDL, -TG and +HDL.


It should come as no surprise that a diet that stresses roughly
equal portions of fresh meat and fresh veggies as the primary
food, with smaller amounts of fruits, dairy, eggs and nuts, is an
extremely healthy diet. Humans are evolutionary omnivores who
are the top predator on the planet so we have not had time to
evolve into an optimal diet so eating with our omnivore digestive
tract in mind will yield good health with very little effort other
than
an eye to variety and freshness.

The level of effort for Atkins or other low carb plans isn't that high
once you get used to it. What meat is on sale today? Have
that one as long as you've had other types recently. What
vegetable is sale today (including roots while on maintenance)?
Have that one as long as you've had other types recently. Also
have a salad. Done. It actually can get that simple if you want
to focus on simple, though it gets pretty dull doing it that simply
for a long time span.

Being a veteran vegetarian you're used to putting in a lot more
effort towards balancing nutrients than is necessary on a low
carb meat-and-veggies based system. All three macronutrient
types basically take care of themselves just by having some
variety in types of meat and veggies.
  #15  
Old August 4th, 2010, 04:09 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Oh Nuts!

jay wrote:

*Eight oz of almonds is also 1377 calories, 125 g fat, 16 net carbs.
Too many nuts. *You need to exercise some portion control here. *


On day I had 10 oz of macadamias. According to the packet, that would
be 2010 calories. Oh my! On lo-carb, these nuts taste just as sweet as
candy.


New fat is 3500-4500 calories per pound. There's no way you stored
any new fat at all if you stayed under maybe 100 grams of carb that
day. It takes either enough insulin to push fat into storage or a
much
larger overload than that to force fat into storage against the
pressure
from low insulin.

That link told me
BMI: * 17.2
Percent Body Fat: * *10.3%
Lean Body Mass: * *105.8 lb
Underweight by 4.0 kilograms (8.8 pounds).


And a lot of those programs run about 10 pounds under what works
best so you could bounce up 20 without any ill effects at all other
than being less hungry less often.

Consume at least 2251 calories per day.
Your diet should contain at least 85 grams of protein per day.

Prior to the nut binge and chicken, I was eating approximately 40g of
plant protein from zucchini, chayote, lettuce, celery and chocolate.


Most of the protein estimates are generous not only to make
sure there are enough of all of the essential amino acids without
tracking by type, by also to keep the protein high enough that there
are no protein cravings.

You would have needed to track amino acids by type to avoid
protein cravings eating 40g per day but long term vegetarians
usually follow a system that does do that.

I'm going with it being a "beneficial" craving that you don't agree
with. You're listed as underweight so your body chemistry will
set hormone levels to be ready to eat more. Your long term low
protein intake may have been tuned for health but our bodies aren't
evolved for that level of sophistication. I think you fed your body
an
unaccustomed high protein food and it triggered appetite hormones
that drove you to eat more. When it comes to hormones your
body concluded a surplus was available and it needed to eat right
now. I get not agreeing with a sudden drive to eat like that, but
that's my theory on why it happened.

Atkins and other low carb plans say nuts are good. The bounce on
the scale was water not fat. You don't agree with what happened
but it was towards the center of "all is well" as far as low carb
plans go.
  #16  
Old August 4th, 2010, 06:30 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
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Posts: 993
Default Oh Nuts!

On Aug 2, 11:26*pm, jay wrote:
*... I tried cashews and they were gone. *
Then I tried pecans, hazel/filberts and walnuts and I didn't
touch them. *So now I tend to keep pecans, hazels/filberts and walnuts
on hand and not get cashews.


It's funny you mentioned cashews as it is the first thing I would
devour at our health food store, if I were accidentally locked in
there overnight.

... If you're typically eating 50-100 grams of protein
per day it's doubtful you are triggering starvation cravings. *Below
that you should look for the book Protein Power by Drs Eades and work
through the directions to figure out your daily minimum protein grams.


While not a strategy for the long run, I was trying to see what a 5%
protein diet would do. I lost a bit of muscle mass. I suspect, it was
the protein (esp from chicken) and the carbs from nuts that catapulted
my weight.


Since your diet is low carb and low protein, you must be eating fat.
Instead of worrying about what's happening from eating some nuts while
on a diet that is unsustainable anyway, I'd be focused on a sound,
proven diet strategy that works. For me, that's Atkins.
  #17  
Old August 4th, 2010, 07:13 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
jay[_2_]
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Posts: 68
Default Oh Nuts!

New fat is 3500-4500 calories per pound. There's no way you stored
any new fat at all if you stayed under maybe 100 grams of carb that
day. *It takes either enough insulin to push fat into storage or a
much larger overload than that to force fat into storage against the
pressure from low insulin.


The 8oz packet of macs had 16 net carbs. The 8oz packet of almonds had
24g net carbs. I may have added 16 or 24g of carbs per day for a while
on top of those from veggies. So I don't think, I got 100g per day.

...*I think you fed your body an
unaccustomed high protein food and it triggered appetite hormones
that drove you to eat more. *When it comes to hormones your
body concluded a surplus was available and it needed to eat right
now. *I get not agreeing with a sudden drive to eat like that, but
that's my theory on why it happened.


I think, this may be the better explanation. Thx.
Do you think it is safe to cycle in and out of consuming sufficient
level of protein? If you wanted to, how would you implement it?
  #18  
Old August 4th, 2010, 07:35 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
jay[_2_]
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Posts: 68
Default Oh Nuts!

... I was trying to see what a 5% protein diet would do...

Since your diet is low carb and low protein, you must be eating fat.


A horrifying amount, according to friends and family. One says, clog
within a year. I only have 7 more months to live!

Instead of worrying about what's happening from eating some nuts while
on a diet that is unsustainable anyway, I'd be focused on a sound,
proven diet strategy that works. *For me, that's Atkins.


You are right, many studies with Atkins have shown favorable results.
And it does seem that, at around 5% protein, the body is eager for
more. (Have you looked into the pluses and minuses of the Ketogenic
Diet?)
  #19  
Old August 5th, 2010, 06:07 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default Oh Nuts!

jay wrote:

Do you think it is safe to cycle in and out of consuming sufficient
level of protein? If you wanted to, how would you implement it?


It depends on what you mean by safe and sufficient. You are currently
doing an experiment at near half the normal minimum recommended protein
grams so unless you're paying close attention to the individual amino
acid counts you're now below the safe threshold. Even with counting the
individual amino acids it's unlikely you could cut your protein intake
any more safely.

If you mean alternating your current experiment with a plan with around
twice as many protein grams, as long as you are currently counting by
individual amino acid type, it should be okay. Your current system
takes a lot more work than any system that uses meat for protein.

Body builders often alternate between low carb and low fat plans. It's
effective at pushing their body fat percentage lower than can be done
with simpler means. Being already underweight I don't see how some sort
of parallel strategy based on alternating protein levels could benefit
you. Driving your body fat lower is not going to benefit you.

What I do to control protein intake doesn't apply to you. I do not
sometimes to drive fat out of storage without changing my total
calories. I trade larger portions of lean meats for smaller portions of
fatty meats for about the same total calories. That reduces excess
protein calories burnt as fuel in exchange for excess fat calories burnt
as fuel. It sounds like a net zero if you don't know that leptin pulls
fat from storage to drive basal metabolism. But even doing that I
bottom out at twice your current protein grams so I don't have any need
to count individual amino acids grams.
 




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