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#22
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
On 24 Jan 2004 03:15:56 -0800, (rs) posted:
(Diarmid Logan) wrote in message . com... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3416637.stm Uncovering the Atkins diet secret There is no secret. There is clear and compelling scientific evidence that the reason why a low-carbohydrate/low-glycemic diet leads to weight loss is due to the reasons that Barry Sears suggests (read his books for lists of studies), and it is related to insulin release in response to high blood sugar Where does this come from? Must be syndrome X? (which signals fat storage) and the body's preference for using sugar first over protein or fat for energy when there is sugar in the bloodstream. There is ALWAYS sugar in the bloodstream. Try hypoglycemia! Not pleasant! Most nutritionists and doctors have never even been familiarized with the literature surrounding this and continue to recycle the same old belief that calories are calories, regardless of the source. Huh? Have you written to a medical school about this oversight? The body's preference for using sugar first when protein and fat are also present leads to problems with fat, protein, sugar and cholesterol being left behind in the bloodstream. As an example, a high carbohydrate diet has been proven to be the cause of abnormally high levels of tryptophan in the blood. Also, vast histories of experiments show that insulin drips into veins of lab animals causes build-up of cholesterol in blood vessels and symptoms of heart disease. This is not disputable. Sugar is being drawn into cells leaving other things behind. Is this "voodoo" nutrition? There is also pro-establishment propaganda going on which explains much of this. It is not by accident that the guidelines in the food pyramid developed by the department of agriculture help to maximize profit for the food industry . People who pay attention to the news will be aware of the numerous articles noting loss of profit for processed food manufacturers recently due to the Atkins diet popularity. So meat, dairy, protein, and so on are not the product of the agriculture industry? What then? Following a Zone, Atkins, or similar diet means touring the periphery of the store and not going down the aisles unless it's for atkins products. Are you equating a Zone diet, (40% carbs), with Atkins? What does this mean for Betty Crocker, Nabisco, Kellogg, OreIda, Coca-Cola? And for the beef industry, dairy industry? Wheat has 12% protein, BTW. While many of the people on the Atkin's diet are consuming less calories than before, many people are actually consuming more and still losing weight. So can YOU show this metabolic lab study which shows that a hypercaloric diet can result in fat storage loss? The answer lies in understanding the mechanisms of insulin signalling and sugar metabolism, and much of what has been learned about all of this has been learned in the last decade. Example? I think you've missed something from decades ago. Recently, aging itself has been linked to these issues, and experiments in animals have shown that careful control of blood sugar and insulin release can lead to slower aging and leaner animals. There are also conditions like Syndrome X which more or less prove the applicability to humans. Well, yes.... Moosh |
#23
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:07:13 GMT, posted:
writes: On 23 Jan 2004 12:07:49 -0800, (tcomeau) posted: It has nothing to do with the Laws of Thermo. They apply to a closed system. The human body is not a closed system. Where does it state that the "conservation of energy principle" applies only to a closed system? In any text that covers thermodynamics. However, some conclusions can be drawn anyway; the previous poster is incorrect. Energy is conserved whatever. Over what arbitrary boundaries energy transfers are measured, determines what a "closed system" is. And what do you understand by a closed system? A closed system is any system which has no energy sources or sinks. The body is not "closed" because food provides an external source of energy, and the toilet provides an external sink (!). However, a locked room containing food for a month and a chemical toilet IS a closed system. Exactly! Draw the boundaries and measure the energy transfers. The human body can be studied as a closed system. It depends what you measure and how rigorously. Right. I've been waiting many months for TC to point out ANY metabolic lab study to show that a hypercaloric diet can result in fat storage loss. No show, but he still persists. Moosh |
#24
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
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#25
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:58:02 GMT, posted:
"Moosh" writes: On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:07:13 GMT, posted: writes: On 23 Jan 2004 12:07:49 -0800, (tcomeau) posted: It has nothing to do with the Laws of Thermo. They apply to a closed system. The human body is not a closed system. Where does it state that the "conservation of energy principle" applies only to a closed system? In any text that covers thermodynamics. However, some conclusions can be drawn anyway; the previous poster is incorrect. Energy is conserved whatever. Over what arbitrary boundaries energy transfers are measured, determines what a "closed system" is. Never said otherwise. OK, I thought you said conservation of energy only occurred in a "closed system" (whatever that arbitrary system means exactly). However, a locked room containing food for a month and a chemical toilet IS a closed system. Exactly! Draw the boundaries and measure the energy transfers. Yup. The human body can be studied as a closed system. It depends what you measure and how rigorously. Right. I've been waiting many months for TC to point out ANY metabolic lab study to show that a hypercaloric diet can result in fat storage loss. No show, but he still persists. I'm not sure what you mean by "hypercaloric". Nobody has ever disputed that a normal person eating 5000 cal/day will not lose weight. What is claimed, and some of us have measured in practice, is that changing the source of calories WITHOUT changing the number of calories has changed us from gaining or maintaining to losing. So show us the metabolic lab studies to back this assetion up. "Hypercaloric" means taking more calories into the body than are expended by that same body. There are two other self-explanatory terms that go with this; "Eucaloric", and "hypocaloric". Here the SECOND law of thermodynamics is relevant: no conversion is 100% efficient. Therefore, an easy corollary states that two different conversion methods are a priori unlikely to exhibit the same efficiency. The general principle of conservation of energy means that a calorie can neither be created nor destroyed. All must be accounted for. Efficiency is irrelevant. All calories into this system (the human body) must exactly equal all calories out of this system. If they don't, then the measurements are wrong, until you can get the Nobel Prize for changing Faraday's Laws I am unaware of any study measuring the exact conversion efficiency of the conversion process for various fats and simple or complex carbs. Conversion to what? All chemical reaction pathways have been studied rigorously. There are reference books that can tell you the exact thermal equations for every known chemical reaction. Moosh |
#26
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
Are you equating a Zone diet, (40% carbs), with Atkins?
Just for your information, maintainance Atkins is hardly distinguishable from Zone... Mirek |
#27
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
"Moosh" wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:07:13 GMT, posted: writes: On 23 Jan 2004 12:07:49 -0800, (tcomeau) posted: It has nothing to do with the Laws of Thermo. They apply to a closed system. The human body is not a closed system. Where does it state that the "conservation of energy principle" applies only to a closed system? In any text that covers thermodynamics. However, some conclusions can be drawn anyway; the previous poster is incorrect. Energy is conserved whatever. Over what arbitrary boundaries energy transfers are measured, determines what a "closed system" is. And what do you understand by a closed system? A closed system is any system which has no energy sources or sinks. The body is not "closed" because food provides an external source of energy, and the toilet provides an external sink (!). However, a locked room containing food for a month and a chemical toilet IS a closed system. Exactly! Draw the boundaries and measure the energy transfers. The human body can be studied as a closed system. It depends what you measure and how rigorously. Right. I've been waiting many months for TC to point out ANY metabolic lab study to show that a hypercaloric diet can result in fat storage loss. No show, but he still persists. Moosh And I've been waiting just as long for you to show us the one seminal metabolic lab study, or any metabolic lab study that conclusively proves otherwise. I'm still waiting. I may not have the study to disprove the calorie fallacy, but you do not have the study or studies that proved it in the first place. You are placing your trust in a theory that has never been proven scientifically, it has only been assumed. TC |
#28
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret - for Moosh
"Moosh" wrote in message . ..
On 22 Jan 2004 18:02:47 -0800, (tcomeau) posted: snip Maybe the lesson to be learned is that calories really have little bearing when it comes to weight gain or loss in humans. TC snip The only thing complicating this simple concept is peoples unreasonable adherence to the calories fallacy. The calories math doesn't, hasn't and will never be a valid predictor of weight loss or gain in humans. So show us the study. You've claimed this nonsense for years with not a shred of evidence. Make with the evidence please. Metabolic lab study showing hypercaloric diet results in fat storage loss. Moosh OK. You claim that the Laws of Thermo is directly applicable to weight management in the human body, and you further insist that there is no other factors involved other than the calories-in/calories-out factor. If that is the case then it applies in *every* circumstance with no exceptions. No Exceptions. That is the nature of a *Law* of physics. No Exceptions. In this case we are not restricted to metabolic lab studies to disprove the applicability of the Law of Thermo to weight management in the human body. One exception, and only one exceprion, is enough to disprove the idea that the Law of Thermo applies to weight management in the human body. Here is one study that shows that calories are not the last word on weight mangement in humans. ********************* http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/na...?storyID=74896 Surprise: Low-carb dieters eat more calories, still lose weight By DANIEL Q. HANEY AP Medical Editor 10/14/2003 FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- The dietary establishment has long argued it's impossible, but a new study offers intriguing evidence for the idea that people on low-carbohydrate diets can actually eat more than folks on standard lowfat plans and still lose weight. Perhaps no idea is more controversial in the diet world than the contention -- long espoused by the late Dr. Robert Atkins -- that people on low-carbohydrate diets can consume more calories without paying a price on the scales. Over the past year, several small studies have shown, to many experts' surprise, that the Atkins approach actually does work better, at least in the short run. Dieters lose more than those on a standard American Heart Association plan without driving up their cholesterol levels, as many feared would happen. Skeptics contend, however, that these dieters simply must be eating less. Maybe the low-carb diets are more satisfying, so they do not get so hungry. Or perhaps the food choices are just so limited that low-carb dieters are too bored to eat a lot. Now, a small but carefully controlled study offers a strong hint that maybe Atkins was right: People on low-carb, high-fat diets actually can eat more. The study, directed by Penelope Greene of the Harvard School of Public Health and presented at a meeting here this week of the American Association for the Study of Obesity, found that people eating an extra 300 calories a day on a very low-carb regimen lost just as much during a 12-week study as those on a standard lowfat diet. Over the course of the study, they consumed an extra 25,000 calories. That should have added up to about seven pounds. But for some reason, it did not. "There does indeed seem to be something about a low-carb diet that says you can eat more calories and lose a similar amount of weight," Greene said. That strikes at one of the most revered beliefs in nutrition: A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It does not matter whether they come from bacon or mashed potatoes; they all go on the waistline in just the same way. Not even Greene says this settles the case, but some at the meeting found her report fascinating. "A lot of our assumptions about a calorie is a calorie are being challenged," said Marlene Schwartz of Yale. "As scientists, we need to be open-minded." Others, though, found the data hard to swallow. "It doesn't make sense, does it?" said Barbara Rolls of Pennsylvania State University. "It violates the laws of thermodynamics. No one has ever found any miraculous metabolic effects." In the study, 21 overweight volunteers were divided into three categories: Two groups were randomly assigned to either lowfat or low-carb diets with 1,500 calories for women and 1,800 for men; a third group was also low-carb but got an extra 300 calories a day. The study was unique because all the food was prepared at an upscale Italian restaurant in Cambridge, Mass., so researchers knew exactly what they ate. Most earlier studies simply sent people home with diet plans to follow as best they could. Each afternoon, the volunteers picked up that evening's dinner, a bedtime snack and the next day's breakfast and lunch. Instead of lots of red meat and saturated fat, which many find disturbing about low-carb diets, these people ate mostly fish, chicken, salads, vegetables and unsaturated oils. "This is not what people think of when they think about an Atkins diet," Greene said. Nevertheless, the Atkins organization agreed to pay for the research, though it had no input into the study's design, conduct or analysis. Everyone's food looked similar but was cooked to different recipes. The low-carb meals were 5 percent carbohydrate, 15 percent protein and 65 percent fat. The rest got 55 percent carbohydrate, 15 percent protein and 30 percent fat. In the end, everyone lost weight. Those on the lower-cal, low-carb regimen took off 23 pounds, while people who got the same calories on the lowfat approach lost 17 pounds. The big surprise, though, was that volunteers getting the extra 300 calories a day of low-carb food lost 20 pounds. "It's very intriguing, but it raises more questions than it answers," said Gary Foster of the University of Pennsylvania. "There is lots of data to suggest this shouldn't be true." Greene said she can only guess why the people getting the extra calories did so well. Maybe they burned up more calories digesting their food. Dr. Samuel Klein of Washington University, the obesity organization's president, called the results "hard to believe" and said perhaps the people eating more calories also got more exercise or they were less apt to cheat because they were less hungry. ------ EDITOR'S NOTE: Medical Editor Daniel Q. Haney is a special correspondent for The Associated Press. ****************** |
#29
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret - for Moosh
http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/na...?storyID=74896
Surprise: Low-carb dieters eat more calories, still lose weight I guess that that 3lb difference was very likely caused by LC waterloss... Mirek |
#30
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000620.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. sigh.... you poor idiot.... Extremes do not prove or disprove anything other than the extreme. So would you please point out any metabolic lab study that shows that a hypercaloric diet can result in fat storage loss as you keep claiming? Moosh Great programme on BBC last week. Scientists have been puzzled by the success of Atkins diet but conclusion is that protein food makes you feel full but they still maintain it is dangerous. Diana (a non dieter) |
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