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ARTICLE: Yet another study has shown that the Atkins diet works



 
 
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  #41  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:01 PM
Mars at the Mu_n's Edge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:31:55 -0600, "cheesegator"
wrote:

Here's the problem:

LC advocates have been viewed as frauds by your ilk for decades.


Here's your problem. You libelous statements are as important as your
Usenet handle.

Until very
recently, any study they conducted..


Who, exactly is, "they", Cheese?

(or partially funded) was dismissed out
of
hand by the keepers of the orthodoxy--


Who, exactly is, "the keepers", Cheese?

These studies are also expensive to undertake. Why sink lots of $$$$ into a
study whose results the "establishment" stubbornly refuses to accept.


Uh, because real researchers seek the truth and not acceptance maybe?

"Knowing" that the earth was flat, your kind..


Name my "kind", Cheese.

saw no need to conduct studies
to
bear out what the LC advocates had been claiming. I have some great recipes
for all the egg on your collective faces.


Who and where are these "faces", Cheese?

1. Studies conducted by or funded by LC advocates/researchers didn't count.
2. The medical establishment, although biased against LC diets, chose not
to
conduct any major studies of the issue.


Yes, Doctor Atkins did refuse to do so, Cheese.

Those poor *******s who did
undertake small trials were shouted down any time the elders didn't
like their
results.


Exactly where did you see this occurring, Cheese?



http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
  #42  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:03 PM
M.W.Smith
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Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

Mars at the Mu_n's Edge wrote:


The only place we might differ is in studying the pathological effects
of, say, ketosis over a term. Not being a researcher, I am not at all
certain if this is doable but I am told, by researchers, it is.



On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:45:01 +0100, "M.W.Smith"
wrote:


I think that aspect of it *is* testable. It just requires
subjects to be on a generally high-fat-low-carb diet for
many years and then to compare their disease statistics with
those of people who were not on that kind of diet during the
same period of years.



What about environmental variants? Trans fat intakes? How do you get a
clinically clean control group or testing group?


I'm saying I don't think you have to have clean groups here.

However, my ESP tells me that any positive correlation
between Atkins and higher rates of heart problems and cancer
problems can probably be nullified if not reversed by strict
adherence to daily strenuous exercise and daily high water
consumption.



What is the reason for high water consumption?


Flushing waste from everywhere in the body as efficiently
and quickly as possible.

In other words, I expect it will be shown that
when you do the Atkins diet, you must do the diet component,
the exercise component, and the water drinking component,
and that the exercise and water components are as important
as the diet component.



Is this high water consumption to offset water loss in ketosis or
water loss in Atkins at all times of the diet?


Water loss during exercise.

I won't be surprised if the studies end up showing that if
you're a sloth going in and you remain a sloth, the Atkins
diet will increase your chances of dying before your time.



It is your opinion, then, that Atkins, or perhaps any diet (including
the 2PDiet) would be, or could be, counterproductive to long life if
not combined with an appropriate exercise program?


Too strong a statement. I think it has been shown that
low-fat diets reduce cancer and heart disease. I'm saying
that to get the same disease statistics on low-carb,
high-fat diets, the appropriate exercise program must
accompany the diet.

And if that is the
case, should that program leaned to the aerobic or anaerobic ?


If by anaerobic you mean weightlifting, then it should lean
heavily toward aerobic. If by anaerobic you mean all kinds
of HIIT, then whatever suits you.

martin

  #43  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:14 PM
Ron Ritzman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:52:51 -0500, Mars at the Mu_n's Edge
wrote:

adherence to daily strenuous exercise and daily high water
consumption.


What is the reason for high water consumption?


Don't you know? Diet books are required to recommend 8 glasses of
dihydrogen monoxide. It's some sort of federal law or something

--
Ron Ritzman
http://www.panix.com/~ritzlart
Smart people can figure out my email address
  #44  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:22 PM
Ron Ritzman
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Posts: n/a
Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:53:02 +0100, "M.W.Smith"
wrote:

However, for a great many overweight people, a big problem
is sticking to the diet, whatever the diet. The high fat
foods of Atkins serve to eliminate the hunger and cravings
that are most dieters' downfall.


I'm actually going to concede this point. One of my meals was
sometimes stir fry chicken and broccoli. I sometimes used olive oil
and sometimes ghee. (clarified butter) Ghee did a better job blunting
my appetite then olive oil did. With either my appetite was more
controlled then when I used SlimFast however.

--
Ron Ritzman
http://www.panix.com/~ritzlart
Smart people can figure out my email address
  #45  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:30 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

Ron Ritzman wrote:
:: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:06:43 GMT, Matti Narkia
:: wrote:
::
::: In one of his usenet messages Lyle McDonald, the author the book
::: _The
::: Ketogenic Diet_ (http://www.theketogenicdiet.com/), emphasizes that
::: one shouldn't equate Atkins' diet with a low-carb/ketogenic diet,
::: and that low-carb/ketogenic diet can be made a lot healthier than
::: Atkins' diet. The
::: link to the message is
:::
:::
http://groups.google.fi/groups?selm=...omIMRETARDE D
..net
::: (http://tinyurl.com/so0e)
::
:: And Lyle is usually right
::
:: Yea, how many Atkids are doing the diet with Salmon, lean meats, flax
:: oil and macadamia nuts?

I do it all the time....others do as well if they are concerned about
calorie intake as well as carbs.

When I did the diet (limited budget) my
:: typical breakfast was either a protein drink or a half can of Double
:: Q
:: salmon, lunch, a Wendy's chicken BLT salad with a low carb dressing
:: or
:: lemon. Dinner, Chicken or the leanest cut of beef or pork I could
:: find
:: on special at Kroger, a salad and/or a green vegetable. I did not
:: constantly "pig out" on bacon, sausage, and bunless burgers. (though
:: I
:: won't say I never ate those things.)

I eat them occasionally too, but salmon and chicken breasts are the main
meats I eat.

::
:: Lyle made another interesting point. Weight loss itself, regardless
:: of
:: the composition of the diet, often improves lipid numbers. So does
:: exercise. So even one on the "high sat fat" Atkins diet, (assuming
:: it's resulting in a calorie deficit and the dieter is exercising) the
:: dieter is often better off then he was on his old diet sitting in his
:: easy chair his only exercise being Budweiser curls and the 5 yard
:: commercial break potty dash.

Right.


  #46  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:31 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

M.W.Smith wrote:
:: Ron Ritzman wrote:
::: Yea, how many Atkids are doing the diet with Salmon, lean meats,
::: flax oil and macadamia nuts? When I did the diet (limited budget) my
::: typical breakfast was either a protein drink or a half can of
::: Double Q salmon, lunch, a Wendy's chicken BLT salad with a low carb
::: dressing or lemon. Dinner, Chicken or the leanest cut of beef or
::: pork I could find on special at Kroger, a salad and/or a green
::: vegetable. I did not constantly "pig out" on bacon, sausage, and
::: bunless burgers. (though I won't say I never ate those things.)
::
:: However, for a great many overweight people, a big problem
:: is sticking to the diet, whatever the diet. The high fat
:: foods of Atkins serve to eliminate the hunger and cravings
:: that are most dieters' downfall. For these people, the diet
:: you are talking about will not so effectively reduce hunger
:: and cravings.

Sure it does. Protein & fiber help, along with good fats.


::
::: Lyle made another interesting point. Weight loss itself, regardless
::: of the composition of the diet, often improves lipid numbers. So
::: does exercise. So even one on the "high sat fat" Atkins diet,
::: (assuming it's resulting in a calorie deficit and the dieter is
::: exercising) the dieter is often better off then he was on his old
::: diet sitting in his easy chair his only exercise being Budweiser
::: curls and the 5 yard commercial break potty dash.
::
:: I agree, but my point was that the exercise might completely
:: nullify the long term negative effects of the high fat in
:: the diet.

Especially if that exercise keeps calorie consumption from being excessive.


  #47  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:34 PM
Jo Anne Thompson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default ARTICLE: Yet another study has shown that the Atkins...Patricia

  #48  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:37 PM
M.W.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

Roger Zoul wrote:

M.W.Smith wrote:
:: Ron Ritzman wrote:
::: Yea, how many Atkids are doing the diet with Salmon, lean meats,
::: flax oil and macadamia nuts? When I did the diet (limited budget) my
::: typical breakfast was either a protein drink or a half can of
::: Double Q salmon, lunch, a Wendy's chicken BLT salad with a low carb
::: dressing or lemon. Dinner, Chicken or the leanest cut of beef or
::: pork I could find on special at Kroger, a salad and/or a green
::: vegetable. I did not constantly "pig out" on bacon, sausage, and
::: bunless burgers. (though I won't say I never ate those things.)
::
:: However, for a great many overweight people, a big problem
:: is sticking to the diet, whatever the diet. The high fat
:: foods of Atkins serve to eliminate the hunger and cravings
:: that are most dieters' downfall. For these people, the diet
:: you are talking about will not so effectively reduce hunger
:: and cravings.

Sure it does. Protein & fiber help, along with good fats.


Not for me. Fiber is filling, but the full feeling doesn't
eliminate hunger for me. Protein does reduce hunger for me,
but not as efficiently as fat.

::: Lyle made another interesting point. Weight loss itself, regardless
::: of the composition of the diet, often improves lipid numbers. So
::: does exercise. So even one on the "high sat fat" Atkins diet,
::: (assuming it's resulting in a calorie deficit and the dieter is
::: exercising) the dieter is often better off then he was on his old
::: diet sitting in his easy chair his only exercise being Budweiser
::: curls and the 5 yard commercial break potty dash.
::
:: I agree, but my point was that the exercise might completely
:: nullify the long term negative effects of the high fat in
:: the diet.

Especially if that exercise keeps calorie consumption from being excessive.


For most people, exercise increases calorie consumption.

martin

  #49  
Old October 28th, 2003, 03:03 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

M.W.Smith wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: M.W.Smith wrote:
::::: Ron Ritzman wrote:
:::::: Yea, how many Atkids are doing the diet with Salmon, lean meats,
:::::: flax oil and macadamia nuts? When I did the diet (limited
:::::: budget) my typical breakfast was either a protein drink or a
:::::: half can of
:::::: Double Q salmon, lunch, a Wendy's chicken BLT salad with a low
:::::: carb dressing or lemon. Dinner, Chicken or the leanest cut of
:::::: beef or
:::::: pork I could find on special at Kroger, a salad and/or a green
:::::: vegetable. I did not constantly "pig out" on bacon, sausage, and
:::::: bunless burgers. (though I won't say I never ate those things.)
:::::
::::: However, for a great many overweight people, a big problem
::::: is sticking to the diet, whatever the diet. The high fat
::::: foods of Atkins serve to eliminate the hunger and cravings
::::: that are most dieters' downfall. For these people, the diet
::::: you are talking about will not so effectively reduce hunger
::::: and cravings.
:::
::: Sure it does. Protein & fiber help, along with good fats.
::
:: Not for me. Fiber is filling, but the full feeling doesn't
:: eliminate hunger for me. Protein does reduce hunger for me,
:: but not as efficiently as fat.

Are you referring to simply sat fats? One can easily add in fats to protein
and fiber rich foods. I'm saying that one doens't need to pig out on sat
fats to do low-carb.

::
:::::: Lyle made another interesting point. Weight loss itself,
:::::: regardless
:::::: of the composition of the diet, often improves lipid numbers. So
:::::: does exercise. So even one on the "high sat fat" Atkins diet,
:::::: (assuming it's resulting in a calorie deficit and the dieter is
:::::: exercising) the dieter is often better off then he was on his old
:::::: diet sitting in his easy chair his only exercise being Budweiser
:::::: curls and the 5 yard commercial break potty dash.
:::::
::::: I agree, but my point was that the exercise might completely
::::: nullify the long term negative effects of the high fat in
::::: the diet.
:::
::: Especially if that exercise keeps calorie consumption from being
::: excessive.
::
:: For most people, exercise increases calorie consumption.

Interesting. I've found this to be the case only when starting an exercise
program after not doing any over a period of several months. And espeically
so for weight training. For me, adapting to a regular exercise program helps
me control eating. Not exercising seems to bring on increased calorie
consumption for me.

I guess it is a YMMV kind of thing.


  #50  
Old October 28th, 2003, 03:09 PM
M.W.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ketosis, Ketogenic diets and atherosclerosis

Roger Zoul wrote:

M.W.Smith wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: M.W.Smith wrote:
::::: Ron Ritzman wrote:
:::::: Yea, how many Atkids are doing the diet with Salmon, lean meats,
:::::: flax oil and macadamia nuts? When I did the diet (limited
:::::: budget) my typical breakfast was either a protein drink or a
:::::: half can of
:::::: Double Q salmon, lunch, a Wendy's chicken BLT salad with a low
:::::: carb dressing or lemon. Dinner, Chicken or the leanest cut of
:::::: beef or
:::::: pork I could find on special at Kroger, a salad and/or a green
:::::: vegetable. I did not constantly "pig out" on bacon, sausage, and
:::::: bunless burgers. (though I won't say I never ate those things.)
:::::
::::: However, for a great many overweight people, a big problem
::::: is sticking to the diet, whatever the diet. The high fat
::::: foods of Atkins serve to eliminate the hunger and cravings
::::: that are most dieters' downfall. For these people, the diet
::::: you are talking about will not so effectively reduce hunger
::::: and cravings.
:::
::: Sure it does. Protein & fiber help, along with good fats.
::
:: Not for me. Fiber is filling, but the full feeling doesn't
:: eliminate hunger for me. Protein does reduce hunger for me,
:: but not as efficiently as fat.

Are you referring to simply sat fats? One can easily add in fats to protein
and fiber rich foods. I'm saying that one doens't need to pig out on sat
fats to do low-carb.


We're never talking about pigging out.

:::::: Lyle made another interesting point. Weight loss itself,
:::::: regardless
:::::: of the composition of the diet, often improves lipid numbers. So
:::::: does exercise. So even one on the "high sat fat" Atkins diet,
:::::: (assuming it's resulting in a calorie deficit and the dieter is
:::::: exercising) the dieter is often better off then he was on his old
:::::: diet sitting in his easy chair his only exercise being Budweiser
:::::: curls and the 5 yard commercial break potty dash.
:::::
::::: I agree, but my point was that the exercise might completely
::::: nullify the long term negative effects of the high fat in
::::: the diet.
:::
::: Especially if that exercise keeps calorie consumption from being
::: excessive.
::
:: For most people, exercise increases calorie consumption.

Interesting. I've found this to be the case only when starting an exercise
program after not doing any over a period of several months. And espeically
so for weight training. For me, adapting to a regular exercise program helps
me control eating. Not exercising seems to bring on increased calorie
consumption for me.


Try swimming 2k in the morning before work.

I guess it is a YMMV kind of thing.



 




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