Results of chicken stock trial

LurfysMa wrote:
"Nancy wrote:

"LurfysMa" wrote

By that time it was about 10 pm. I was worried about leaving it
simmering all night, so I turned it off after about 2 hours and
left it on the stove overnight.

You know, I'm no clean freak or whatever, but I seriously think you
should not do that again, leave it sitting there to cool at room
temperature, never mind overnight. Put it in the refrigerator.

Am I wrong, anyone?

Brilliantly right, as it happens.

OK, I guess that wasn't too smart. Next time I'll start earlier in
the day so I can finish before bedtime.

Next time, use a recipe instead of a crystal ball. Making good food
requires discipline, good information, and adherence to established
methods. You've shown none of those things.

I have now heated it up to a good boil, so that should kill any
beasties, right?

Probably. But it's ruining the stock. You're making it more cloudy than
it was before by emulsifying the fats. You're happily smelling the
wonderful scents of chicken stock - and driving out the volatile
elements that provide a good bit of the flavor. You'll have a
wonderfully sterile toilet rinse. Congratulations.

Mostly what you've done is a lot of uninformed guesswork that has
resulted in a particularly sub-standard result.

Cooking is a series of steps that result in food. There are variations
possible in all of them that will still provide acceptable finished
products. You've managed to combine many bad ideas, poorly executed into
one wasted effort. And you've done that because you can't be bothered to
learn anything before running out and ****ing money and time into the wind.

Pastorio

LurfysMa wrote:

We had baked chicken with stuffing. I had a few slices of breast meat
and the wife has a leg and thigh. I pulled the rest of the meat off
the carcass and set aside.

The carcass including neck, feet, a few giblets,

Don't use the liver. Makes for a nasty tasting stock.

and whatever meat was
left on the carcass went into a large stew pot. Added one large onion,
4 carrots, and 3 celery stalks including leaves (cut into half-inch
pieces), plus 3 bay leaves and 8-10 peppercorns. Covered in water,
brought to slow boil.

"Aromatics" - the veggies - should all be cut into chunks to expose more
surface area to cooking.

Break up the carcass. *Barely* cover with water - for one chicken
between 6 and 8 cups water.

*Never* boil stocks. They get cloudy and the mouthfeel is not so clean.
They should come to a boil and instantly turned down to a slow simmer.

By that time it was about 10 pm. I was worried about leaving it
simmering all night, so I turned it off after about 2 hours and left
it on the stove overnight.

NEVER, NEVER leave food to cool overnight on the stove. Did I say NEVER,
NEVER? It's a vast petri dish encouraging critters to live long and
prosper (with that split-finger thingy).

You can't interrupt stock making this way. When you turned off the
burner, residual heat in the pot continued to cook the contents for a
good while. A bit later, when it cooled down, the bacteria began their
festival. Many of them will affect flavor, color, transparency,
wholesomeness.

This morning, I heated it back up and
simmered it very slowly for about 6 hours.

Way, way too long. 3 hours max for bird stock.

The vegetables were mush
and most of the carcass has disappeared. Only the larer boned
remained.

And that's how you know the stock you made was overcooked.

I let it cool for a hour or so, then strained it into a large bowl. I
have about 12 cups of stock.

That's about twice as much as you should have. Given cooking time,
evaporation to be expected, you probably started with maybe three or
four times too much water.

The stock is fairly thin, but not exactly clear.

Boiling does that.

It has a definite
chicken soup taste, but not strong -- actually, fairly weak or bland.
Did I use too much water?

Way, way too much.

It tastes like it seend salt of something.

It does need salt. Stocks always do.

I didn't add any spices, figuring I would do that when I make the soup.

It has been sitting for an hour and a very thin "skin" has formed on
the top. It's not really "fat". It has a slightly plastic look. It
"crinkles" when touched with a spoon. Should I skim that off?

It's protein and, yes, you should skim it.

Should I let it sit longer and skim off the fat?

Sitting out at room temp won't make it easy to skim. Chill it
(yesterday) and just lift off the fat.

Overall, does this sound about right?

No. And I must say I'm finding this exercise a bit tiresome. You're too
damn lazy to read a recipe or Google a bit to find out the background
info you need. Instead you want to be spoon fed through this exercise,
making bonehead moves based on sheer guesswork that need remedying
instead of doing it right the first time...

Are there any adjustments I need to make for next time?

Read a goddam book. Google a recipe. Ask a grownup.

I am looking forward to making soup with it. Can I use it right away,
or do I need to wait?

It's crap and you should feed it to your pets, because you didn't bother
to learn anything before setting out on this odyssey and, in your
deliberate ignorance, have wasted your time and money and ours, as well.

When I do make soup, do I use all of the stock as the liquid or do I
ue some water and only add stock for part of the liquid? If so, in
what proportions?

Read a recipe and take some intelligent initiative for your own results.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" wrote in message
...
LurfysMa wrote:

We had baked chicken with stuffing. I had a few slices of breast meat
and the wife has a leg and thigh. I pulled the rest of the meat off
the carcass and set aside. The carcass including neck, feet, a few
giblets,

Don't use the liver. Makes for a nasty tasting stock.

and whatever meat was
left on the carcass went into a large stew pot. Added one large onion,
4 carrots, and 3 celery stalks including leaves (cut into half-inch
pieces), plus 3 bay leaves and 8-10 peppercorns. Covered in water,
brought to slow boil.

"Aromatics" - the veggies - should all be cut into chunks to expose more
surface area to cooking.

Break up the carcass. *Barely* cover with water - for one chicken between
6 and 8 cups water.

*Never* boil stocks. They get cloudy and the mouthfeel is not so clean.
They should come to a boil and instantly turned down to a slow simmer.

By that time it was about 10 pm. I was worried about leaving it
simmering all night, so I turned it off after about 2 hours and left
it on the stove overnight.

NEVER, NEVER leave food to cool overnight on the stove. Did I say NEVER,
NEVER? It's a vast petri dish encouraging critters to live long and
prosper (with that split-finger thingy).

You can't interrupt stock making this way. When you turned off the burner,
residual heat in the pot continued to cook the contents for a good while.
A bit later, when it cooled down, the bacteria began their festival. Many
of them will affect flavor, color, transparency, wholesomeness.

This morning, I heated it back up and
simmered it very slowly for about 6 hours.

Way, way too long. 3 hours max for bird stock.

The vegetables were mush
and most of the carcass has disappeared. Only the larer boned
remained.

And that's how you know the stock you made was overcooked.

I let it cool for a hour or so, then strained it into a large bowl. I
have about 12 cups of stock.

That's about twice as much as you should have. Given cooking time,
evaporation to be expected, you probably started with maybe three or four
times too much water.

The stock is fairly thin, but not exactly clear.

Boiling does that.

It has a definite
chicken soup taste, but not strong -- actually, fairly weak or bland.
Did I use too much water?

Way, way too much.

It tastes like it seend salt of something.

It does need salt. Stocks always do.

I didn't add any spices, figuring I would do that when I make the soup.

It has been sitting for an hour and a very thin "skin" has formed on
the top. It's not really "fat". It has a slightly plastic look. It
"crinkles" when touched with a spoon. Should I skim that off?

It's protein and, yes, you should skim it.

Should I let it sit longer and skim off the fat?

Sitting out at room temp won't make it easy to skim. Chill it (yesterday)
and just lift off the fat.

Overall, does this sound about right?

No. And I must say I'm finding this exercise a bit tiresome. You're too
damn lazy to read a recipe or Google a bit to find out the background info
you need. Instead you want to be spoon fed through this exercise, making
bonehead moves based on sheer guesswork that need remedying instead of
doing it right the first time...

Are there any adjustments I need to make for next time?

Read a goddam book. Google a recipe. Ask a grownup.

I am looking forward to making soup with it. Can I use it right away,
or do I need to wait?

It's crap and you should feed it to your pets, because you didn't bother
to learn anything before setting out on this odyssey and, in your
deliberate ignorance, have wasted your time and money and ours, as well.

When I do make soup, do I use all of the stock as the liquid or do I
ue some water and only add stock for part of the liquid? If so, in
what proportions?

Read a recipe and take some intelligent initiative for your own results.

Pastorio

I have to wonder, is Bob (this one) always this rude to someone who just
wants some info and confirmation of what might work best by other peoples'
experiences, rather than become confused by the mass of information out
there in Google-verse or whatever?

sheesh

MG wrote:

I have to wonder, is Bob (this one) always this rude to someone who just
wants some info and confirmation of what might work best by other peoples'
experiences, rather than become confused by the mass of information out
there in Google-verse or whatever?

There are some recipes that might be confusing by virtue
of their varying versions, but chicken stock is not
one of them. There is some truth to the fact that she
should have read a recipe somewhere at least once.

As far Bob goes, he's been one of the more knowledgeable
(and generous) people I've encountered on the internet. He's
responded in depth to some of my most technical and obscure
questions. Some of it is stuff I can normally only find
in special-order professional textbooks, if at all. So
no, I can't agree that he's such a bad guy.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

MG wrote:

I have to wonder, is Bob (this one) always this rude to someone who just
wants some info and confirmation of what might work best by other peoples'
experiences, rather than become confused by the mass of information out
there in Google-verse or whatever?

No. Not always. Rarely, actually. Just when they put on as determined a
show as this not to actually learn, in a reasonably systematic way, what
the hell they're doing. And, I know you'll be surprised about this, but
there are things called "cook-books" (not completely sure of the
spelling) that contain directions and explanations to guide the
processes. And are written from "other peoples' experiences" as seems so
important to you.

Chicken stock is one of the simpler things to do in a kitchen. Very few
steps. Rather than blunder around screwing it up like the OP did,
wasting, time, energy, money, and our time as well, literally two
minutes spent reading a recipe from a cookbook would have answered all
the questions raised.

It's a rather stupid laziness - especially intellectual - that makes a
person take all the time spent posting and cooking and screwing around
RATHER than just looking in a book or wandering into the vast,
incomprehensible, scary "Google-verse or whatever." Gawd...

Are you two related?

sheesh

Sheesh this.

I didn't see too many helpful bits of information from you, or did I
miss something? Perhaps you neglected to note the replies I gave the
person and to what depth. Did you have anything to actually contribute
to the thread?

Pastorio

FIRST you should never let food set overnight.
You took way to long to do this. I wouldnt eat anything that has set so long
without being kept at the proper temp.

Also I never use the liver or heart. The liver can cause a bitter taste and
also can cause the cloudiness in the broth. The neck and the Gizzard is fine.

And I agree with Bob buy a Betty Crocker Cook Book hers are probably the best
for beginners to understand.

I make homemade Chicken and noodles soup all the time. Sometimes I cook my
chicken the evening before. Just cook it 2 to 3 hrs(this is with a whole raw
chicken) with enough water to cover the chicken, let it cool then set in frig
overnight. The next morning skim the fat off the top. Take out all the bones.
Usually I cook a whole chicken so I dice the meat up then divide into 2
containers and cook one then freeze one. If its a little weak tasting I add a
little chicken bouillon to taste. While chicken and broth is reheating add 4
to 6 sliced fresh carrots ( not canned),4 to 6 stalks Celery, 1 med Onion.
Cook at a med simmer for about 2 hrs. While that is all cooking mix together
4 eggs (egg subsitute) 3 cups flour and 4 Tbsp milk mix this until it can be
rolled in a ball then rolled out to a very thin base cut into 1/2" wide
strips let half of then set for about an hr and dry out place into storage
bag and freeze now you have your noodles already for your next soup. Put the
other half into pot about the last 30 minutes of your cook time. You may need
to add water and a little more bouillon to get desired soupyness.
This is a large pot of soup we make this on snow sledding days when my sister,
daughter and their families come out. So it should feed about 8 to 12 people.
I serve it with Hot fresh baked bread and honey. Not much of a diet food
though thats why I only make it 2 or 3 times during the winter.

This is a good recipe for left over Turkey too.

Lori

--
Starting Weight 9/1/05 224,
Current Weight 10/21/05 208
1st mini goal 199 by 11/25/05


Message posted via WeightAdviser.com
http://www.weightadviser.com/Uwe/For.../diet/200510/1

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 03:56:31 GMT, "MG"
wrote:


"Bob (this one)" wrote in message
...
LurfysMa wrote:

We had baked chicken with stuffing. I had a few slices of breast meat
and the wife has a leg and thigh. I pulled the rest of the meat off
the carcass and set aside. The carcass including neck, feet, a few
giblets,
snip
No. And I must say I'm finding this exercise a bit tiresome. You're too
damn lazy to read a recipe or Google a bit to find out the background info
you need. Instead you want to be spoon fed through this exercise, making
bonehead moves based on sheer guesswork that need remedying instead of
doing it right the first time...

Are there any adjustments I need to make for next time?

Read a goddam book. Google a recipe. Ask a grownup.

I am looking forward to making soup with it. Can I use it right away,
or do I need to wait?

It's crap and you should feed it to your pets, because you didn't bother
to learn anything before setting out on this odyssey and, in your
deliberate ignorance, have wasted your time and money and ours, as well.

When I do make soup, do I use all of the stock as the liquid or do I
ue some water and only add stock for part of the liquid? If so, in
what proportions?

Read a recipe and take some intelligent initiative for your own results.

Pastorio

I have to wonder, is Bob (this one) always this rude to someone who just
wants some info and confirmation of what might work best by other peoples'
experiences, rather than become confused by the mass of information out
there in Google-verse or whatever?

sheesh


Sad, isn't it? In fact, the OP has been investigating what goes into
making various dishes before executing them. For example, before
asking on rfc, he (the OP is male) looked for recipes for beef stew
and found hundreds with different proportions and flavorings. Because
it was so confusing, he then posted a request on rfc asking for advice
and general guidelines for stew from people who have experience. He
got quite a bit of helpful advice from regulars, including one to
experiment rather than use a recipe. All of those previous replies
were quite nice and pleasant.

On the other hand, Pastorio ignored the OPs requests for advice
*before* making the stock, and instead decided to respond afterwards
with derision. So it's not that he couldn't be bothered to answer
-look at how much time he spent- but that it's more fun for him to
criticize after the fact and look like a such a hot shot in the
mirror.

And no, it's not out of character for Bob to be rude. Watch his
answer to this

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

"Curly Sue" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 03:56:31 GMT, "MG"
wrote:


And no, it's not out of character for Bob to be rude. Watch his
answer to this

It's been a long time since I've read rfc (I'm seeing this on asd), but Bob
was among the most useful posters there. You want rude, does that Sheldon
guy still post there?

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:19:12 -0600, "Matthew Venhaus"
wrote:


"Curly Sue" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 03:56:31 GMT, "MG"
wrote:


And no, it's not out of character for Bob to be rude. Watch his
answer to this

It's been a long time since I've read rfc (I'm seeing this on asd), but Bob
was among the most useful posters there. You want rude, does that Sheldon
guy still post there?


Yes, interestingly, they are very similar in many ways.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:19:12 -0600, "Matthew Venhaus"
wrote:


"Curly Sue" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 03:56:31 GMT, "MG"
wrote:


And no, it's not out of character for Bob to be rude. Watch his
answer to this

It's been a long time since I've read rfc (I'm seeing this on asd), but Bob
was among the most useful posters there. You want rude, does that Sheldon
guy still post there?


Yes, interestingly, they are very similar in many ways.

Except that one has a sense of humor. -aem