NYNY - Fred - Dec 10th

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:55:47 -0600, in alt.support.diet.weigh****chers
you wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:38:44 -0800, Fred
wrote:

Hey, they could give us booze for a reward (G)

Yes, stay thin and switch to booze. There's a support group for that
too. Or you could spend a month in Minnesota at one of our 10000
treatment centers to recover from all those rewards G

Oh, that's good - one for each lake (G)

I don't know if WW actually does anything for Maintainers over time.
I will have to ask my secretary. I don't know anything about other
"abstinance" programs and how they work. I would expect that WW might
have something but then again, I think people who reach goal either go
to work for them or possibly fade out of the public program. By the
way, has WW offered you a job?

I guess VIRTUE should be its own reward, huh? (G)

Well, I do have that chocolate cake and now fruit cake in the freezer
and I guess I probably did buy it so I could eat it but I'm not sure
it was planned as a reward (as you indicate food reward is not
necessarily a great idea) but more as I want those things on occasion
and should be able to fit them in to the program.

This whole thing came to me when I could not hike because of the rain
and the friend I was with (we turned back at the trailhead before
leaving the car) also has a weight problem and so we discussed how it
is going for me and I just mentioned this reward issue. Wondered if
it was needed - was the scale my substitute and was that HEALTHY -
well, better than food but the crutch or need for reward as opposed to
it's the right thing.

One of topics that used to come rather frequently in OA was whether it
was possible to be addicted to the scale. (OA recommends monthly WIs
because of the tendency to weigh obsessively.) Some people were
uncomfortable with the notion of replacing one addiction for another.
Others decided that as long as the replacement wasn't as lethal as the
original, they were fine with it.

Yes, I think a minute, if that on the scale is not a bad addiction or
pacifier or whatever.

The idea of scale addiction might be stretching the definition of
addiction a bit far. But I've met lots of people who ended in OA after
getting sober in AA. They switched addictions. We all know people who
turned to food to curb their nicotine cravings when giving up the
smoking habit.

Some other thoughts have also popped up. Like as we Maintain more,
less people will comment (congrats or inquiries) and so we get less
attention that way (altho, our image might get attention, I guess) and
while being heavy was not necessarily positive attention, it was still
attention????? And while I did not look as heavy as I was (given the
comments when I started losing) - my friends knew and they would
express concern about my health. We now lose that "reward" too???

Oh, boy, just running on................

It's a good topic even if there isn't one definitive answer that
applies universally. But I think the reason any of us remains
overweight long after we acknowledge it as a problem is that there
were secondary, hidden needs for our obesity that won out over reason.
When those secondary gains are dealt with, they're no longer obstacles
to weight loss. Those secondary needs sometimes find expression in
another behavior, like exercise. Or newsgroup posting and reading. Or
knitting. Or drinking. Or spending. Or obsessing about maintaining.

I would agree. (Jared was just on pushing a honey mustard something!)

Oh, was I running on...........? G

Good topic. Keep running on about it. You raise good points that many
of us need to think about if we're going to keep the weight off.

Thanks. At first I was a bit reluctant to post but decided to.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:43:01 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

There should be some recognition of Time milestones for maintenance people.
Like people who are abstaining from *substances* for instance, they get
little "stuff" for staying that way for some months, or years or whatever.
I know I have read that if you maintain a weight loss for more than 2 years
your chances of continuing to keep it off are much improved. And after 5
years, like remission from cancer, you are almost assured to keep it off.
So the rewards should be for time. And I think also, that Food rewards
should be a thing of the past. I think food, (don't get me wrong, I am
talking Good food) should be for nutrition and fuel. Not for rewards for
anything, unless it is as a reward for Allowing our healthy bodies to
actually get physically hungry! I never used to get physically hungry,
always ate to keep from being that way. And boy is food bliss, when it
feeds actual hunger.
"Fred" wrote in message
...
Yes, it is sane but.. but.. .(sputtering...)

I need to accept no palpable reward, no visible reward. Just, as you
say, "feel great!" And just accept that as the reward but that is so
amorphous.

And then add to that that MAINTENANCE involves some small gains and
that is the antithesis of reward - downright scary even if I should
know it is normal.

I guess coming to grips with all of this Maintenance stuff is, well,
Maintenance (G)

Finding another reward - I really can't keep upgrading my computer and
I got new skis last week!!!!!

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:19:46 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

This looks very sane to me, this w.l. reward substitute for the food
reward.
I am 156 on my scale this morning and was frankly delighted because I can
go
to the meeting this morning and get a nice low weight for the end of this
year on my card. But my goal, my real goal, is to stay between 155 and
160
so I am there. I think I am going to need to set myself up some sort of
positive reinforcement for staying Still. I sure do feel great, gotta
tell
ya.


"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
You're right, of course.

I've had additional thoughts on this, this afternoon while I was
walking the lake...

I think that _I_ and maybe some of the others have started to
substitute the REWARD of weightloss - seeing the scale drop, for food,
itself. There is that positive glow when the scale shows a loss.
Now, there should be a time when that is not necessary and I should
not substitute the "weighloss reward" for the food reward. The reward
should be holding steady and feeling good.

This is a new thought and (g) not definitely well-thought out just
yet. But it did get me wondering. After all, even at WW meetings,
Maintainers/Lifetimers no longer get recognition. No little stars or
magnets or..... You just plug on along.

Just musing............

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 01:01:24 -0000, "krys"
wrote:

hey hey hey - down is down - and thus good.
and what other people think is never the issue - it's all about how
you
feel
about yourself........and no-one can tell you to feel different than
you
do.
A million people can tell me I look good as I am - but I still want to
lose
that weight for me..........





Prairie Roots
232/168/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

Briefs? Anything skimpier, perhaps with strings???

"Fred" wrote in message
...
I do not do it without a shirt - well, maybe when I get to the top and
have to take off my drenched shirt. But it is brief!!!!

Now, clean up those thoughts! (G)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:58:01 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Isn't it though? Fred in tight biking shorts, no shirt, rotating arms
rapidly in circles....get a picture for us!

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Now that's a vision....

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0800, Fred
wrote:

I'm getting my
"windmill" in shape - rotate arms rapidly in circles....

Prairie Roots
232/170.8/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

Great job Lesanne! You should be very proud!

"Lesanne" wrote in message
.. .
This looks very sane to me, this w.l. reward substitute for the food
reward.
I am 156 on my scale this morning and was frankly delighted because I can
go
to the meeting this morning and get a nice low weight for the end of this
year on my card. But my goal, my real goal, is to stay between 155 and
160
so I am there. I think I am going to need to set myself up some sort of
positive reinforcement for staying Still. I sure do feel great, gotta
tell
ya.


"Fred" wrote in message
...
You're right, of course.

I've had additional thoughts on this, this afternoon while I was
walking the lake...

I think that _I_ and maybe some of the others have started to
substitute the REWARD of weightloss - seeing the scale drop, for food,
itself. There is that positive glow when the scale shows a loss.
Now, there should be a time when that is not necessary and I should
not substitute the "weighloss reward" for the food reward. The reward
should be holding steady and feeling good.

This is a new thought and (g) not definitely well-thought out just
yet. But it did get me wondering. After all, even at WW meetings,
Maintainers/Lifetimers no longer get recognition. No little stars or
magnets or..... You just plug on along.

Just musing............

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 01:01:24 -0000, "krys"
wrote:

hey hey hey - down is down - and thus good.
and what other people think is never the issue - it's all about how you
feel
about yourself........and no-one can tell you to feel different than
you
do.
A million people can tell me I look good as I am - but I still want to
lose
that weight for me..........

You want strings, find a violinist! (G) Or maybe this group would be
into a violence-ist???

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:00:21 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Briefs? Anything skimpier, perhaps with strings???

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I do not do it without a shirt - well, maybe when I get to the top and
have to take off my drenched shirt. But it is brief!!!!

Now, clean up those thoughts! (G)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:58:01 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Isn't it though? Fred in tight biking shorts, no shirt, rotating arms
rapidly in circles....get a picture for us!

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Now that's a vision....

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0800, Fred
wrote:

I'm getting my
"windmill" in shape - rotate arms rapidly in circles....

Prairie Roots
232/170.8/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. Now getting my mind out of the gutter....
Are you getting out for any exercise today? We've got rain and wind
something awful here. Can't believe it after the beautiful weather
yesterday. Don't think I'll be going far in that! We've got sugar cookie
dough to roll out and bake today, then if we have time, maybe some
gingerbread men.

Have a great day Fred! Hope your weather is better than ours.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
You want strings, find a violinist! (G) Or maybe this group would be
into a violence-ist???

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:00:21 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Briefs? Anything skimpier, perhaps with strings???

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I do not do it without a shirt - well, maybe when I get to the top and
have to take off my drenched shirt. But it is brief!!!!

Now, clean up those thoughts! (G)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:58:01 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Isn't it though? Fred in tight biking shorts, no shirt, rotating arms
rapidly in circles....get a picture for us!

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Now that's a vision....

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0800, Fred
wrote:

I'm getting my
"windmill" in shape - rotate arms rapidly in circles....

Prairie Roots
232/170.8/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

This weekend has been a BUST. Well, I continued to reorg the
basement. And mucked with the computer since Roxio's Easy Creator
messed up my partitions. They are still messed up but I have managed
to mask the damage but cannot repair it.

Maybe I should have gone to the mountains but yesterday the pass was
closed for about 3 hours or more with folks trapped in their cars by
avalanche control work. More than 20 inches fell. Two folks appear
to have been killed in separate avalanches near Mt Baker (closer to
you) and down along I-90. Both were snowshoers. And the weather
yesterday was awful down here.

Right now it is chilly, about 40F but the sun is shining so far. More
showers expected. I will try bike riding if it warms a bit or even if
it does not.

Limes are purchased and shrimp is the dinner of choice (G)



On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 08:15:14 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. Now getting my mind out of the gutter....
Are you getting out for any exercise today? We've got rain and wind
something awful here. Can't believe it after the beautiful weather
yesterday. Don't think I'll be going far in that! We've got sugar cookie
dough to roll out and bake today, then if we have time, maybe some
gingerbread men.

Have a great day Fred! Hope your weather is better than ours.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
You want strings, find a violinist! (G) Or maybe this group would be
into a violence-ist???

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:00:21 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Briefs? Anything skimpier, perhaps with strings???

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I do not do it without a shirt - well, maybe when I get to the top and
have to take off my drenched shirt. But it is brief!!!!

Now, clean up those thoughts! (G)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:58:01 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Isn't it though? Fred in tight biking shorts, no shirt, rotating arms
rapidly in circles....get a picture for us!

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Now that's a vision....

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0800, Fred
wrote:

I'm getting my
"windmill" in shape - rotate arms rapidly in circles....

Prairie Roots
232/170.8/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

AHA, buttery shrimp, and no exercise.... I knew if I acted like I didn't
care I was gonna get my chance...... (too bad about the cheese enchiladas I
had for lunch, maybe next time)

"Fred" wrote in message
...
This weekend has been a BUST. Well, I continued to reorg the
basement. And mucked with the computer since Roxio's Easy Creator
messed up my partitions. They are still messed up but I have managed
to mask the damage but cannot repair it.

Maybe I should have gone to the mountains but yesterday the pass was
closed for about 3 hours or more with folks trapped in their cars by
avalanche control work. More than 20 inches fell. Two folks appear
to have been killed in separate avalanches near Mt Baker (closer to
you) and down along I-90. Both were snowshoers. And the weather
yesterday was awful down here.

Right now it is chilly, about 40F but the sun is shining so far. More
showers expected. I will try bike riding if it warms a bit or even if
it does not.

Limes are purchased and shrimp is the dinner of choice (G)



On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 08:15:14 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. Now getting my mind out of the gutter....
Are you getting out for any exercise today? We've got rain and wind
something awful here. Can't believe it after the beautiful weather
yesterday. Don't think I'll be going far in that! We've got sugar
cookie
dough to roll out and bake today, then if we have time, maybe some
gingerbread men.

Have a great day Fred! Hope your weather is better than ours.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
You want strings, find a violinist! (G) Or maybe this group would be
into a violence-ist???

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:00:21 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Briefs? Anything skimpier, perhaps with strings???

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I do not do it without a shirt - well, maybe when I get to the top
and
have to take off my drenched shirt. But it is brief!!!!

Now, clean up those thoughts! (G)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:58:01 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Isn't it though? Fred in tight biking shorts, no shirt, rotating
arms
rapidly in circles....get a picture for us!

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Now that's a vision....

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0800, Fred

wrote:

I'm getting my
"windmill" in shape - rotate arms rapidly in circles....

Prairie Roots
232/170.8/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:58:12 -0800, Fred wrote:

This weekend has been a BUST. Well, I continued to reorg the
basement. And mucked with the computer since Roxio's Easy Creator
messed up my partitions. They are still messed up but I have managed
to mask the damage but cannot repair it.

hehehe - sounds like Roxio Easy Creator isn't so easy. g I was looking at the
possibility of buying a different dvd creater, reviews of roxio weren't so good
(other than price). I opted to stick with the one that came standard on my
computer. So far, it hasn't caused any problems.

Maybe I should have gone to the mountains but yesterday the pass was
closed for about 3 hours or more with folks trapped in their cars by
avalanche control work. More than 20 inches fell. Two folks appear
to have been killed in separate avalanches near Mt Baker (closer to
you) and down along I-90. Both were snowshoers. And the weather
yesterday was awful down here.

Sounds to me like you were wiser in choosing to stay away from those mountains
yesterday. They'll still be there next weekend. Sorry to hear about the
avalanches and possible loss of lives, that is always so sad ... more so with the
holidays upon us.

Right now it is chilly, about 40F but the sun is shining so far. More
showers expected. I will try bike riding if it warms a bit or even if
it does not.

Chilly? I'm thinkin' heat wave ... we've been sitting right at 17 degrees for the
past few days. It did get up to 34 at one point yesterday, just long enough to
dump a little snow on the ground and make driving very nasty. Cold, cold, cold
again today. I'm sticking closer to home today for a change, only need to run out
to a food service store to pick up fruit/veggies/trays and get something made for
the staff at the nursing home.

Limes are purchased and shrimp is the dinner of choice (G)

mmmmmmmmmm, and what time will dinner be served? I am awfully tired of pizza,
chinese and quick grab sandwiches.

Joyce



On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 08:15:14 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. Now getting my mind out of the gutter....
Are you getting out for any exercise today? We've got rain and wind
something awful here. Can't believe it after the beautiful weather
yesterday. Don't think I'll be going far in that! We've got sugar cookie
dough to roll out and bake today, then if we have time, maybe some
gingerbread men.

Have a great day Fred! Hope your weather is better than ours.

"Fred" wrote in message
. ..
You want strings, find a violinist! (G) Or maybe this group would be
into a violence-ist???

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:00:21 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Briefs? Anything skimpier, perhaps with strings???

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I do not do it without a shirt - well, maybe when I get to the top and
have to take off my drenched shirt. But it is brief!!!!

Now, clean up those thoughts! (G)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:58:01 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Isn't it though? Fred in tight biking shorts, no shirt, rotating arms
rapidly in circles....get a picture for us!

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Now that's a vision....

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0800, Fred
wrote:

I'm getting my
"windmill" in shape - rotate arms rapidly in circles....

Prairie Roots
232/170.8/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

"Fred" wrote in message
...
This weekend has been a BUST. Well, I continued to reorg the
basement. And mucked with the computer since Roxio's Easy Creator
messed up my partitions. They are still messed up but I have managed
to mask the damage but cannot repair it.

Reorganizing the basement can be a huge job. Eeewww, Roxio can be a real
pain in the butt, good luck with it.


Maybe I should have gone to the mountains but yesterday the pass was
closed for about 3 hours or more with folks trapped in their cars by
avalanche control work. More than 20 inches fell. Two folks appear
to have been killed in separate avalanches near Mt Baker (closer to
you) and down along I-90. Both were snowshoers. And the weather
yesterday was awful down here.

I heard about the avanches this morning. It sounds pretty bad out there.
Maybe it's a good thing you decided to stay home and work in the basement!


Right now it is chilly, about 40F but the sun is shining so far. More
showers expected. I will try bike riding if it warms a bit or even if
it does not.

It's beautiful here right now, some blue sky poking through the ugly clouds.
Still don't feel much like going anywhere though. Think I'll just hang
around the house. I have a date with my son at 3:00 to watch Bob the
Builder's Christmas Special. I'm going to cuddle up to my son with a bowl
of popcorn for us!


Limes are purchased and shrimp is the dinner of choice (G)

Mmmm.... sounds really good, want company? I've been too busy to cook for
the last few nights and we've ordered in chinese two nights this past week.
Tonight I'm cooking a small pork loin. Nothing special, still feel kind of
lazy after my busy day yesterday.





On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 08:15:14 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. Now getting my mind out of the gutter....
Are you getting out for any exercise today? We've got rain and wind
something awful here. Can't believe it after the beautiful weather
yesterday. Don't think I'll be going far in that! We've got sugar
cookie
dough to roll out and bake today, then if we have time, maybe some
gingerbread men.

Have a great day Fred! Hope your weather is better than ours.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
You want strings, find a violinist! (G) Or maybe this group would be
into a violence-ist???

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:00:21 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Briefs? Anything skimpier, perhaps with strings???

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I do not do it without a shirt - well, maybe when I get to the top
and
have to take off my drenched shirt. But it is brief!!!!

Now, clean up those thoughts! (G)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:58:01 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Isn't it though? Fred in tight biking shorts, no shirt, rotating
arms
rapidly in circles....get a picture for us!

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Now that's a vision....

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0800, Fred

wrote:

I'm getting my
"windmill" in shape - rotate arms rapidly in circles....

Prairie Roots
232/170.8/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

I am sorry to disappoint you but I managed a 22.9 (but who is
counting) mile bike ride with 1040 feet of elevation gain in 41F
weather. But I did have a mocha, soy, decafe latte at Starbucks about
halfway through the ride. Offset??

And by the time we headed out there was NO sun and quite a bit of wind
which worked on the first part of the ride which went north but was a
hinderance on the southbound leg.

But the scale showed UP this morning.

I did plan on reducing the oil/butter content by the way.

I have a feeling this is NOT going to be my week. Tomorrow is the
work "holiday" luncheon.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:08:09 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

AHA, buttery shrimp, and no exercise.... I knew if I acted like I didn't
care I was gonna get my chance...... (too bad about the cheese enchiladas I
had for lunch, maybe next time)

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
This weekend has been a BUST. Well, I continued to reorg the
basement. And mucked with the computer since Roxio's Easy Creator
messed up my partitions. They are still messed up but I have managed
to mask the damage but cannot repair it.

Maybe I should have gone to the mountains but yesterday the pass was
closed for about 3 hours or more with folks trapped in their cars by
avalanche control work. More than 20 inches fell. Two folks appear
to have been killed in separate avalanches near Mt Baker (closer to
you) and down along I-90. Both were snowshoers. And the weather
yesterday was awful down here.

Right now it is chilly, about 40F but the sun is shining so far. More
showers expected. I will try bike riding if it warms a bit or even if
it does not.

Limes are purchased and shrimp is the dinner of choice (G)



On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 08:15:14 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. Now getting my mind out of the gutter....
Are you getting out for any exercise today? We've got rain and wind
something awful here. Can't believe it after the beautiful weather
yesterday. Don't think I'll be going far in that! We've got sugar
cookie
dough to roll out and bake today, then if we have time, maybe some
gingerbread men.

Have a great day Fred! Hope your weather is better than ours.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
You want strings, find a violinist! (G) Or maybe this group would be
into a violence-ist???

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:00:21 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Briefs? Anything skimpier, perhaps with strings???

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I do not do it without a shirt - well, maybe when I get to the top
and
have to take off my drenched shirt. But it is brief!!!!

Now, clean up those thoughts! (G)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:58:01 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

Isn't it though? Fred in tight biking shorts, no shirt, rotating
arms
rapidly in circles....get a picture for us!

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Now that's a vision....

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:57:03 -0800, Fred

wrote:

I'm getting my
"windmill" in shape - rotate arms rapidly in circles....

Prairie Roots
232/170.8/WW goal 145
joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003