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#61
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb: Matti Narkia wrote: 25 Jan 2004 19:52:32 -0800 in article (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote: Matti Narkia wrote in message . .. 25 Jan 2004 14:46:32 -0800 in article (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote: High protein diets really load up the kidneys and run them into the ground. Not true for people with healthy kidneys. Do diabetics have healthy kidneys, Matti? Your comment was not restricted to diabetics, neither is this thread. Correct. In fact there has been hardly any reference to diabetes in this thread. Correct. Therefore your comment was inaccurate and needed to be corrected. My comment remains accurate. would suggest you be careful in your answer LOL. Looks like you took care not to answer the question. See above. If _anyone needs to be more careful with his/her answers it's you. Does BMI 21-25 still define "mild obesity" as one of your recent answers claimed? :-):-). Yes. Is 2 pounds of potatoes still about 3600 calories as one of your even more recent answers claimed? :-):-):-). Yes. Why can't you just admit that you made a mistake when you stated that 2 pounds of potatoes have 3600 calories? Even the best of us make mistakes. Thorsten -- "Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of evolution" (Theodosius Dobzhansky) |
#63
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:13:05 -0500, Thorsten Schier wrote
(in message ): "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb: snip Yes. Is 2 pounds of potatoes still about 3600 calories as one of your even more recent answers claimed? :-):-):-). Yes. Why can't you just admit that you made a mistake when you stated that 2 pounds of potatoes have 3600 calories? Even the best of us make mistakes. But the worst of us can't admit it :-) -- Steve Weeding the Lord's Vineyards Since 2003 |
#64
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
Matti Narkia wrote:
Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:20:00 -0500 in article "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote: Matti Narkia wrote: Between 30 and 50 % of people with diabetes are at risk of kidney disease, but that was not an issue here. Chung's comment about protein and kidneys was general and as such also and mostly aimed at the large majority of general population with no kidney disease and no diabetes. Chung's attempts to change the subject (the next twist would probably be totally off-topic religious mantras) when caught answering inaccurately (or otherwise challenged) should be resisted. A citation from the recently posted "Dr. Chung FAQ, Issue 1" (URL:http://groups.google.fi/groups?selm=chungfaq-8E35A7.05173026012004%40library.airnews.net): "o When challenged, he answers with evasions, non sequiturs, dissembling, rhetorical questions, quotes from the bible, religious mantras, thinly veiled death threats, ad hominem arguments, and other such disreputable, unethical, and unprofessional tactics. See also the chapters dealing with Mu. ;-) Is the source you cite a reliable source by your usual "vitamin-counter" standards, Matti? Anyone who has followed this ng for a few weeks or longer and read the cited FAQ knows that the FAQ is highly accurate and hence reliable. -- Matti Narkia What happened to your search for the truth, Matti? FYI Note: I am aware that I am responding to a cross-posted message. Because the author of the message to which I am responding did not request that the header be trimmed, I have not trimmed it. If you are upset about reading this message, a few suggestions: (1) Yell at Matti Narkia (2) Report Mattie Narkia to his ISP (3) Killfile this thread. (4) Killfile me. (5) Read about free speech. This discussion(s) is related to the 2 pound diet approach (2PD) which is described completely at: http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the Usenet discussion(s). His participation in this discussion(s) has been voluntary and has been conducted in the spirit of community service. His motivation has been entirely altruistic and has arisen from his religious beliefs as a Christian. Jesus freely gave of Himself to better the health of folks He touched: http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are vehemently opposed to the 2 pound diet approach. They have debated Dr. Chung on every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and have lost the argument soundly at every point: http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this discussion thread(s). However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the argument(s), certain parties have redirected their hatred of the 2 pound diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be "if you can not discredit the message then try to discredit the messenger." Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll" is someone who posts under the cloak of anonymity messages with no redeeming discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting "flame" wars. These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the following observations were made: (1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously. (2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting the discussion(s). (a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the 2PD to achieve near-ideal weight. (b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when their weight becomes near-ideal. (c) For (b) see: http://tinyurl.com/levc (3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s). (4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive). (5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line (including jpegs of the actual diplomas). Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have tried to attack Dr. Chung's credentials knowing full well that they were attempting to libel him. One notable example is Mr. Pastorio: http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements, the hateful folks hiding in the darkness of anonymity only hissed louder in support of their fallen hero. Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either actively or as lurkers can easily dismiss the hisses, for what they are, using the on-line third-party resources at: http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and libelous claims that credentials were bought are easily and summarily debunked. Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning the anon posters who continue to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack): (1) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or accountability). (2) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory characters. (3) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to deliver one-sided insults. (4) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by cross-posting. (5) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the 2PD or its author. and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file. It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to speed. It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD above the din of hissing from the peanut gallery. Humbly, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com |
#65
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:42:12 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
(in message ): snip What happened to your search for the truth, Matti? He found it in the reference below. You should read it. Oh, and Chung... when you respond, please trim your headers to only sci.med.cardiology. Thanks ever so much. On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 5:17:30 -0500, A. B. Chung FAQ wrote (in message ): --------------------------------- | The Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD FAQ | | Version 1.0, January, 2004 | --------------------------------- Introduction ------------ New people arriving in sci.med.cardiology (s.m.c.) are often puzzled and troubled by the controversy surrounding the poster who posts as Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (Dr. Chung) and want to know what the controversy is about. This FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) attempts to provide an answer. The FAQ is arranged in typical FAQ form, i.e. a series of questions and answers. For those who don=B9t wish to read the whole FAQ, the following summary is provided. Summary ------- Dr. Chung represents himself to be a licensed physician specializing in cardiology. In this capacity he responds to medical questions on s.m.c.. If that were all he did, there would probably be no controversy. The controversy arises from Dr. Chung=B9s other behaviors on s.m.c., in particular: o He uses s.m.c. to not only proselytize his particular interpretation of Christianity, but also to disparage and attack anyone with a different interpretation or different religion. o He uses s.m.c. to promote his unscientific Two Pound Diet (2PD) and, in fact, cross posts this information to other groups in order to gain more exposure. o When challenged on the above issues, or one of his medical opinions, he attacks his challengers as "obsessive anti-Christians", "libelers", "homosexuals", "people who can=B9t understand English", etc. o When challenged he performs Internet searches on his challengers in order to "get the dirt" on them and smear their reputations. o When challenged, he answers with evasions, non sequiturs, dissembling, rhetorical questions, quotes from the bible, religious mantras, thinly veiled death threats, ad hominem arguments, and other such disreputable, unethical, and unprofessional tactics. o He is insufferably full of himself, claiming to have "the gift of Truth Discernment" and to be "Humble" while behaving anything but humbly. o He uses a foil who posts under variations of the name "Mu" to avoid killfiles. Mu=B9s job is to troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a reaction, to cross post the reaction to s.m.c. so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post. Whereas Dr. Chung has to be somewhat careful what he says and so attacks primarily through insinuation and innuendo, Mu=B9s tactics are blunt and direct like those of a playground bully. The above lists only the highlights of Dr. Chung=B9s egregious behavior on s.m.c.. If anything, it understates it. Everything can be verified in the Google archives. The issue then arises: so what? As long as Dr. Chung provides free medical advice on s.m.c., who cares what else he does? Many people provide free medical advice on the internet. How does one know whether it is good advice or bad advice? If the person giving the advice is, or represents himself to be, a doctor shouldn=B9t that be enough? Unfortunately, no. Medical education alone is not enough to guarantee good advice. Knowledge must be tempered with judgment, impartiality, integrity, ethics, and professionalism. If someone consistently demonstrates by their behavior that they lack these qualities, how much credence should be given to their medical advice? People arrive in this group looking for help. For their own protection, they deserve to know the quality of the person purporting to dispense that help and not be lulled into a false sense of security simply because someone displays an MD after their name. It is the intention of this FAQ to provide people with enough information to allow them to make an informed decision. List of Questions Answered -------------------------- 1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD? 2. What is the Charter of s.m.c.? 3. Aren=B9t Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter? 4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... What=B9s the Problem With That? 5. But it=B9s Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature. 6. But I=B9m a Christian Too! 7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants? 8. But Isn=B9t It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free Medical Advice Out of the Goodness of His Heart? 9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on Usenet? 10. Won=B9t Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away? 11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who Challenge Dr. Chung? 12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks? 13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This! 14. What is the Two Pound Diet? 15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"? 16. Who is Mu? 17. What is Mu=B9s Role? 1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD? -------------------------------------- The poster who posts as Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD claims to be a licensed physician, practicing internal medicine in Atlanta, Georgia, USA and specializing in cardiology. His signature contains a link to a website which is consistent with his posts. It should be noted that anyone can claim to be anyone on Usenet and so caution is always advised. Indeed there are those who claim that the poster in question is not Dr. Andrew B. Chung, or is not the Dr. Andrew B. Chung listed in the Atlanta telephone directory, and/or has lost his license and/or hospital privileges for misconduct. This FAQ does not attempt to address those claims one way or the other. The reader with an interest in these matters can easily find the relevant discussions archived in Google Groups. This FAQ deals with the poster who posts as Dr. Chung and restricts itself to issues demonstrated by those posts. No position is taken on his "true" identity. 2. What is the Charter of s.m.c.? ---------------------------------- The purpose of this newsgroup is to establish electronic media for communication between health care providers, scientists and other individuals with interest in the cardiovascular field. Such communications will provide quick and efficacious means to exchange information and knowledge, and offer problems to solutions. The sci.med.cardiology newsgroup will welcome participants who are health care providers, trainees, researchers, students or recipients with interest in the field of cardiovascular problems." (ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announc...med.cardiology) 3. Aren=B9t Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter? -------------------------------------------------------- What do you think? 4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... What=B9s the Problem With That? -------------------------------------------------------------- There is no problem with that. Most of the people who participate in s.m.c. are probably religious. However no one but Dr. Chung feels compelled to characterize themselves as the "Humble Servant of God" in their signatures, continually thank God for the opportunity to "witness", question others about their religious beliefs, claim the "Gift of Truth Discernment", etc. When one person insists on introducing his personal religious interpretations into the discussions, it naturally generates responses from others who feel just as strongly that their viewpoints are correct. The resulting debate easily swirls out of control, especially given Dr. Chung=B9s intolerant and dismissive attitude towards beliefs which differ from his. The situation is further exacerbated by Mu=B9s rabble raising from the sidelines. There are over 160 Usenet groups dedicated to the discussion of religion. Dr. Chung should take his beliefs to one of these and stick to cardiology in s.m.c. It is a simple matter of respect for others. 5. But it=B9s Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature. ------------------------------------------------------- No, it is not. He has even gone so far as to "investigate" someone asking for advice about stents and accuse her of being anti-Christian. 6. But I=B9m a Christian Too! ---------------------------- Lots of people are Christians. There is a time and a place for everything. s.m.c. isn=B9t the place to "witness" or recruit. In addition, lots of other people are Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, etc. Would s.m.c. be better or worse if they all emulated Dr. Chung in their proselytizing and recruiting? Furthermore, if you are a Christian, you should be appalled by Dr. Chung=B9s pharisaical, cynical, and manipulative use of Christianity. He is truly a "whitened sepulcher", loudly proclaiming his adherence to Christian values while overtly lying, carrying on smear campaigns against others, making false accusations, dissembling, and marketing his web site under the guise of altruism. He is "bearing false witness" and true Christians should be concerned. As an example, when John Ritter recently died unexpectedly, Dr. Chung rushed to use this unfortunate event to market his web site. He showed a total lack of Christian compassion for Mr. Ritter and his family, even when challenged to do so. As another example, he recently choreographed a smear campaign against a poster who had criticized him. Dr. Chung found a homosexual author with the same first name and then insinuated that the poster and anyone who agreed with him were engaged in a homosexual relationship. Ask yourself if this the brand of Christianity you identify with. 7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants? -------------------------------------------------- Why should one individual be given carte blanche to violate the rights of everyone else? Usenet is a community. It is up to the community to sanction its members. There is nothing "ad hominem" about challenging inappropriate and antisocial behavior. 8. But Isn=B9t It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free Medical Advice Out of the Goodness of His Heart? ---------------------------------------------------------- First, it is only of value if it is good advice. Medical education alone is not enough to guarantee good advice. Knowledge must be tempered with judgment, impartiality, integrity, ethics, and professionalism. If someone consistently demonstrates by their behavior that they lack these qualities, how much credence should be given to their medical advice? Secondly, despite his protestations to the contrary, Dr. Chung is not simply motivated by altruism. Every post of Dr. Chung's contains a link to a website with the following quote: "If you are looking for a cardiologist and reside in Georgia, please consider me your best option for a personal heart advocate. Check out my credentials and my background. Additional information is available in the protected sections of this web site. Email me at to me of your interest and I may send you a temporary username and password to allow a preview. The more information you email, the more likely my decision to send you a temporary username and password. If you like what you see and learn from this website and wish to confer with me about your heart, you or your doctor should email me privately or call my voicemail at 404-699-2780 to schedule an appointment to see me at my *real* office." (http://www.heartmdphd.com/office.asp) Thirdly, Dr. Chung has repeatedly stated that one of his key motivations for participating is s.m.c. is to "witness" and win converts to his religious beliefs. 9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on Usenet? ------------------------------------------------------------------ An interesting question. 10. Won=B9t Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away? -------------------------------------------------- Perhaps. But not challenging him will drive others away. s.m.c. is historically a "low traffic" group. Therefore, when Dr. Chung misbehaves, he generates an apparently large response. This is compounded by Dr. Chung=B9s need to "get in the last word" and Mu=B9s provocations. In spite of this, if someone has a question it will usually be answered. Dr. Chung is not the only participant who offers advice in s.m.c. He is not even the only doctor who participates in s.m.c. However, the controversy he generates and sustains often makes it appear that he is the "only game in town". Finally, Dr. Chung himself drives others away including other physicians who leave in disgust after being verbally assaulted by him, and other knowledgeable posters who point out where Dr. Chung=B9s medical opinion might be in error or at least not the only one generally held. Anyone disagreeing with Dr. Chung on any subject can expect a series of increasingly vitriolic attacks, including threats of libel suits. 11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who Challenge Dr. Chung? -------------------------------------------------------------- An interesting perspective: blame the victim. No other poster (with the exception of Mu, of course) introduces religion or the Two Pound Diet. How can it be acceptable for Dr. Chung to introduce these topics, but not acceptable for others to respond? In any thread, someone must, of necessity "get the last word". Dr. Chung has amply demonstrated that he will not be outdone in this respect. 12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks? ---------------------------------------------- You are probably referring to an "Ad Hominem" _argument_, which attempts to disprove an adversary's fact by personal attack on the adversary. An example would be "You are opposed to the Two Pound Diet because you are anti-Christian". When someone misbehaves, for example lies or distorts what someone else is saying, it is not an "ad hominem attack" to call them on it. It is a legitimate social sanction. There are also, unfortunately too often, simple personal attacks and insults on both sides. While we can all wish it weren't so, it is simply human nature when an argument becomes heated or the other person is obviously not arguing in good faith. If you are distressed by this, see the next question. 13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This! -------------------------------- There is no reason why you have to see it. Just as you can change the TV channel if you don't like a show, you can killfile a poster or thread you don't want to see. See the manual that came with your Usenet reader for directions on how to do it. Before you do this, however, you may wish to consider if a truer picture of the world is not gained by seeing all that goes on - both the good and the bad. 14. What is the Two Pound Diet? ------------------------------- The Two pound Diet is a diet which Dr. Chung "invented". It=B9s only rule is to restrict yourself to two pounds of food per day. That=B9s it. Doesn=B9t matter if you are a 16 year old girl or an 80 year old man; a 5=B9 2" woman or a 7=B9 man; a weight lifter or a mattress tester. Two pounds. That=B9s it. No more, less if you want. One size fits all. Oh, and the food? Whatever you want: two pounds of lettuce, two pounds of ice cream, two pounds of celery, two pounds of bacon, two pounds of chocolate, two pounds of peanuts... doesn=B9t matter. Mix and match. Just keep it under two pounds. Dr. Chung=B9s claim is that this magical weight of food, this universal gustatory constant will cause everyone to arrive at and maintain their ideal weight. His scientific basis for this claim: none. The proof he offers: none. Studies supporting this claim: none. Nutritional explanation: none. Metabolic explanation: none. And this from a doctor who expects people to take him seriously on other issues. 15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"? --------------------------------------------------- Dr. Chung says it is because being overweight is a risk factor for heart problems and therefore discussion of the Two Pound Diet is On Topic. However criticism of the Two Pound Diet is Off Topic as is discussion of any other diet. As with religion, Dr. Chung takes every opportunity to introduce the Two Pound Diet (2PD) into any other thread. In addition Mu trolls other newsgroups, particularly the diet groups looking for opportunities to introduce the 2PD in these groups and then cross post the resulting discussion back to s.m.c so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post. Since Dr. Chung and Mu have been laughed off of these other groups and have been asked repeatedly not to bring up the 2PD in them, participants of these groups are understandably angered when it happens yet again=8A and, because of Mu=B9s cross-posting, all their anger spills back into s.m.c. Another reason for ongoing 2PD discussions is Dr. Chung=B9s habit of researching anyone who criticizes the 2PD and then cross-posting his responses back to other groups which the critic has been found to frequent. He disingenuously claims that he does this as a "convenience" to the critic, but his true reasons are transparent. Once again, the cross-post generates a firestorm in s.m.c. The bottom line is that if the Two Pound Diet is "On Topic" for anyone, it is "On Topic" for everyone... including it's critics. If it is "Off Topic", it should not be continually re-introduced by Dr. Chung. 16. Who is Mu? -------------- Mu is a longtime Usenet Troll who has even merited his own FAQ. He postures as some kind of personal physical trainer, but who really knows? He has allied himself with Dr. Chung and serves as the "Bad Cop" in the Chung - Mu "Good Cop - Bad Cop" routine. He specializes in the short, nasty one-liner and, because unlike Dr. Chung, he has no reputation to protect, he can afford to be much more direct and offensive. Mu parrots an even meaner-spirited version of Dr. Chung=B9s "Christianity" and does not hesitate to employ anti-Semitism and homophobia in his attacks. Naturally, most people would have long ago killfiled Mu, so he changes his handle on an almost daily basis. 17. What is Mu=B9s Role? ---------------------- Mu=B9s role is to troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a reaction, to cross post the reaction to s.m.c. so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post. Mu is also responsible for pitching softballs to Dr. Chung so he can hit them out of the park, and for re-introducing religion and the Two Pound Diet should the discussion flag. Finally, Mu=B9s role is to tirelessly wear down unsuspecting Dr. Chung critics, deflecting the blows that would otherwise be aimed at Dr. Chung. He is Dr. Chung=B9s Internet equivalent of the "rope-a-dope". Insults roll off him like water off a duck as do attempts to reason with him or even have a civil discussion. Most people have learned to ignore him and his comment is usually the last one in any thread sub-tree where it appears. Comments and/or corrections to this FAQ will be taken under advisement. -- Steve Weeding the Lord's Vineyards Since 2003 |
#66
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
Thorsten Schier wrote:
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb: Matti Narkia wrote: 25 Jan 2004 19:52:32 -0800 in article (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote: Matti Narkia wrote in message . .. 25 Jan 2004 14:46:32 -0800 in article (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote: High protein diets really load up the kidneys and run them into the ground. Not true for people with healthy kidneys. Do diabetics have healthy kidneys, Matti? Your comment was not restricted to diabetics, neither is this thread. Correct. In fact there has been hardly any reference to diabetes in this thread. Correct. Therefore your comment was inaccurate and needed to be corrected. My comment remains accurate. would suggest you be careful in your answer LOL. Looks like you took care not to answer the question. See above. If _anyone needs to be more careful with his/her answers it's you. Does BMI 21-25 still define "mild obesity" as one of your recent answers claimed? :-):-). Yes. Is 2 pounds of potatoes still about 3600 calories as one of your even more recent answers claimed? :-):-):-). Yes. Why can't you just admit that you made a mistake when you stated that 2 pounds of potatoes have 3600 calories? It is not a mistake to guestimate 3600 calories per 2 lbs of potatoes (especially if one is trying to lose weight). Even the best of us make mistakes. Correct. Humbly, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ |
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What a bunch of clowns ( Uncovering the Atkins diet secret - for Moosh)
On 26 Jan 2004 07:21:46 -0800, (tcomeau) wrote:
Fat storage occurs when there are excess calories about. Without these, no fat storage occurs. To get fat, you have to eat too much. End of story. Unless you want to get into why folks eat too much. I don't. Here is an interesting question for you. What is the precise mechanism that allows the body to know that there is an overabundance of calories and to start storing it as fat? What mechanism is there for the individual cells to register that it has its maximum intake of calories? Are all nutrients broken down to their basic energy values at all times in every circumstance? How does the body gauge that it has consumed more energy than needed and how does it then know to store the excess? Fat cells are always storing and releasing fat simultaneously. Insulin makes fat cells release a little less and store a little more, glucagon and certain other hormones have the opposite effect. When a cell needs extra energy above and beyond what is provided by glucose, it uses some of the fat floating around in the bloodstream. The fat that is released that is not used by cells goes back into the fat cells. Therefore, if you eat more calories then you burn, the fat cells store more fat then they release and you gain fat, if you eat less then you burn, then the fat cells release more fat then they store and you lose fat. "Insulin" is not the cause of fat gain, it's the primary mechanism the body uses to store excess fat if there is excess fat to be stored. There are other mechanisms however. Therefore, if you were to consume 8000 calories of oil a day, you would gain weight despite the lack of insulin. -- Ron Ritzman http://www.panix.com/~ritzlart Smart people can figure out my email address |
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Thorsten Schier wrote: Is 2 pounds of potatoes still about 3600 calories as one of your even more recent answers claimed? :-):-):-). Yes. Why can't you just admit that you made a mistake when you stated that 2 pounds of potatoes have 3600 calories? It is not a mistake to guestimate 3600 calories per 2 lbs of potatoes (especially if one is trying to lose weight). USDA Nutrient database for potatoes shows (among other things) caloric content per 100 grams. 2 pounds is approximately 900 grams, so I multiplied caloric counts below by 9 to get figures for 2 pounds. Potatoes, baked, flesh and skin, with salt - 93 cal (X 9= 837) Potatoes, boiled, cooked in skin, flesh, without salt - 87 cal (X 9 = 783) Potatoes, boiled, cooked without skin, flesh, without salt - 86 cal (X 9= 774) Potatoes, frozen, french fried, par fried, cottage-cut, unprepared - 153 cal (X 9= 1337) Potatoes, mashed, dehydrated, flakes without milk, dry form - 354 cal (X 9= 3186) Potato flour - 357 (X 9= 3213) Fast foods, potato, mashed - 83 cal (X 9= 747) Fast foods, potato, french fried in vegetable oil - 342 (X 9= 3078) Snacks, potato chips, made from dried potatoes, plain - 558 (X 9= 5022) [38 g of fat = 342 cal of 558 or just 216 from potato] Snacks, potato chips, plain, unsalted - 536 (X 9= ) [34 g of fat = 306 of 536 cal or just 230 from potato] So when Chung says that 2 pounds of potatoes contain 3600 calories, it's simply nonsense. 2 pounds of pure carbohydrate at 4 calories per gram would give 3600 calories, but even sugar falls short: Sugars, powdered - 389 cal (X 9= 3501) Even dehydrating potatoes doesn't give 3600 calories per 2 pounds. The only way to get numbers that high is to include fat as in French fries (38% by weight) or American-style chips (34% by weight). In which case, it's not about potatoes anymore. But does Chung think that we should eat 2 pounds of potatoes a day? Or 3600 calories? He's not answering those questions. |
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
"Moosh" wrote:
Does it not worry you that you claim that energy content of foods depends on the composition apart from the energy content(???), yet you can't show one study or reference to back this? My backing is the total body of science and to ask me to quote it is puerile and avoiding the question. You need to make the distinction between the 'raw' energy in say, a gram of glucose, and what that corresponds to when the glucose is converted to ATP. Energy is lost in the conversion of protein/fat/carb to ATP so the calories in ATP are less than the calories in the glucose(or whatever) it was made from. If the conversion to ATP differs for each of the macronutrients (which it does) then the net energy gain also differs. While the overall energy balances (taking energy to include matter), the proportion that's stored and that's lost can be influenced by diet. Please even just explain the difference between absorbing 1000 cal glucose, fatty acids, or amino acids. You said it, so demonstrate that you don't derive 1000 cal from each when doing violent physical exercise, to simplify matters. They all need to be converted to something else first before they can be used for muscular work. Even converting glucose to fat loses calories, and in fact ATP calories are consumed just to make it happen. If you're doing violent physical exercise you can't use fat as a fuel source anyway. MattLB |
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Uncovering the Atkins diet secret
"Moosh" wrote in message . ..
And I've been waiting just as long for you to show us the one seminal metabolic lab study, or any metabolic lab study that conclusively proves otherwise. Huh? The basic laws of physics show that calories are the only source of fat storage. Calories are indestructible, and uncreatable. What basic law of physics shows this? The Laws of Thermodynamics do not make any reference to food-calories and the human body. It only makes reference to energy and systems. Food calories are not to be confused with a calorie of pure energy. And the human body does not operate on the basis of the pure energy values of food. It is all derived energy. You are claiming different, and yet you can show NOT ONE study to demonstrate this. ALL metabolic lab studies to date back up the physical laws exactly. Then give me the name of even one metabolic lab study that clearly demonstrates this. Put the **** up or shut the **** up. Why are you avoiding giving us just one study? Perhaps there are none? If there is none, then there is none. I do not have one to support my revolutionary ideas, oh well, I'm just an upstart aren't I. No big disaster there. But surely there must be one metabolic lab study that supports what the entire nutrition establishment has based its science on. Surely the entire field of nutritional science has something to show for its rock solid beliefs. Where is it? I'm still waiting. I may not have the study to disprove the calorie fallacy, Well you still have your cockeyed scientific train of thought. The calorie theory "conservation of energy" has NEVER been faulted. You claim different, make with the evidence! I do not have the evidence. Do you have the evidence to support your POV? but you do not have the study or studies that proved it in the first place. Yes, they ALL do, every one of them! The principle of conservation of energy has NEVER been faulted. Are you angling for a Nobel Prize? Oh, no, of course not, they have a conflict of interest Which one exactly? Which one clearly states that food calories are a valid and proven method of weight management in humans and that the Laws of Thermo are directly applicable to humans and weigh management? You are placing your trust in a theory that has never been proven scientifically, it has only been assumed. Well that's because you appear to have lived in the dark all your life. Science has been trying to disprove the laws underpinning them for centuries. There has NEVER been any evidence that the laws of thermo are ever false. Moosh But are they applicable directly to weigh management in humans? A lot of the evidence suggests that it isn't. No metabolic lab studies, but plenty of evidence that restricting calories does not necessarily lead to weight loss in humans. Nor that increasing calories consumption necessarily leads to weight gain in every circumstance. There is plenty of new studies involving low-carb diets to raise serious questions about the calorie theory as applied to weight management. There is no metabolic lab study that dis-proves the calorie theory. The only thing left that will end this argument once and for all is a metabolic lab study that shows the data and the specific finding that the laws of thermo apply directly to weight management in humans. Please show us this document and I will gladly concede the argument to you. TC |
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