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Is this better than Atkins?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 7th, 2003, 01:14 PM
Ferrante
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From The NY Times

October 7, 2003
New Doctor, New Diet, but Still No Cookies
By ABBY GOODNOUGH

IAMI BEACH, Oct. 6 — Theories abound as to what has propelled the
South Beach diet to the center of the weight-loss universe since the
book bearing its name was published in April. Is it the image it
conjures, of bikini-clad models picking at tropical fruit salad
between sun-drenched photo shoots? Is it the aqua shimmer of the book
jacket, as eye-catching as the surf off Ocean Drive?

Or is it that Dr. Arthur Agatston, the cardiologist behind the latest
low-carbohydrate, high-protein diet, is on to something?

Dr. Agatston — whose office is not in South Beach, by the way, but the
older, tamer neighborhood to its north — is not far from that giant of
diet doctors, the late Dr. Robert Atkins, in his belief that refined
sugar and white flour are the villains behind the nation's climbing
obesity rate. Like the Atkins diet, the South Beach diet strictly
limits bread, potatoes and other carbohydrates, especially during a
two-week initiation period, and allows the dieter to eat red meat,
eggs and cheese.

But while the Atkins diet allows just about any fatty food that is not
also starchy, Dr. Agatston advocates mostly unsaturated fats, like
those in olive oil, nuts and oily fish like salmon. Butter is nowhere
in the South Beach diet meal plans, nor is bacon or anything fried.
The South Beach diet also differs from Atkins in that it allows
carbohydrates — though only those high in fiber, like multigrain bread
and wild rice.

Dr. Agatston's premise is that most carbohydrate-rich foods are so
processed that they immediately turn to sugar in the body. That, Dr.
Agatston says, forces a quick spike in blood sugar and nearly as quick
a decline. The spikes lead to more hunger, he says, and — this is the
part that many experts dispute — to inevitable weight gain.

"Nobody in the history of man ever ate complex carbohydrates like we
have," Dr. Agatston said last week during an interview squeezed
between a photo shoot and a meeting about his new heart-imaging
center, set to open in December. He was late to the interview, so his
wife, Sari, a lawyer who is helping with publicity, filled the time by
talking about how even she, a bread lover, has come to accept
whole-wheat pita instead.

The diet revolves around the glycemic index — the amount that a
carbohydrate increases sugar in the blood compared with the amount
that the same quantity of white bread raises it. The concept of the
index as crucial to weight gain or loss has been around since the
early 1980's, when it was used to help people with diabetes choose
proper diets. But skeptics — including the American Diabetes
Association, which has not endorsed the index — say a food's glycemic
index fluctuates depending on how much is eaten and what other foods
are eaten.

Foods with a low glycemic index, like lentils, soy milk and low-fat,
artificially sweetened yogurt, do not raise blood sugar as quickly and
sharply as high-numbered items like gnocchi, baked potatoes and
pretzels.

High-glycemic-index foods cause the body to release a lot of insulin,
which quickly lowers the blood sugar again and causes hunger to recur,
the theory goes. Those with low indexes break down into sugar more
slowly, for longer-term energy.

Carrots are shunned, for example, because the body absorbs their
sugars rapidly. But Dr. Marion Nestle, chairwoman of the department of
nutrition and food studies at New York University, said it would take
over a pound of carrots to spike the blood sugar as high as the index
warns.

"What it comes down to is that this is a standard 1,200- to
1,400-calorie-a-day diet, so of course people are going to lose
weight," Dr. Nestle said. "I do think there's something to the
glycemic index, but I just don't think it's the be-all and end-all,
and that it's the root of obesity."

Dr. Nestle and other experts said they preferred South Beach to Atkins
because it promotes only healthy foods. Several studies suggested the
high-fat Atkins diet was safe for the heart in the short term, though
Dr. Gary Foster, an author of one study, said the South Beach diet
seemed "more informed."

"If this approach says: `Guess what. We think saturated fat is a bad
idea,' it will get a greater mass acceptance," said Dr. Foster of the
weight and eating disorders program at the University of Pennsylvania.

"If you compare the two menu to menu there is very little difference"
between the strict first phases of the Atkins and South Beach diets,
said Colette Heimowitz, director of education and research for Atkins
Nutritionals. "It's a myth that Atkins is all about meat and
discourages healthy fats."

The first two weeks of the South Beach diet are the most difficult,
according to testimonials in Dr. Agatston's book, because they allow
only foods with the lowest glycemic indexes. Fruits, juices, alcohol,
caffeinated coffee and most dairy foods are forbidden. Dessert is
part-skim ricotta cheese mixed with cocoa powder or almond extract.
The closest thing to starch is "Surprise South Beach Mashed
`Potatoes,' " otherwise known as puréed cauliflower.

The goal is to stabilize the blood sugar, and with it, the appetite.
The book promises weight loss of up to 13 pounds in the first two
weeks, which some dietitians see as a red flag.

"Any time you're promised a weight loss of over a pound a week, which
is the safe recommended amount, it's time to say, `What's going on
here?' " said Dawn Jackson, a dietitian at Northwestern Memorial
Wellness Institute in Chicago, who reviewed the diet for the American
Dietetic Association.

Yet Ms. Jackson said she liked Phases 2 and 3. In those, fiber-rich
carbohydrates and unsaturated fats are gradually reintroduced.
Participants are supposed to stay in Phase 2 until they reach their
desired weights, then move on to Phase 3 indefinitely. But it's back
to Phase 1 if they regain pounds, a step Ms. Jackson warned verged on
the unhealthy.

"If you don't read it for Phase 1 and just look at the healthy menu
plans in Phases 2 and 3, it's a good book for that," she said. "It's
definitely healthier than Atkins, but at the end of the day, if you
are losing weight on this diet it's because you're eating fewer
calories than you did before."

Dr. Agatston agrees, but says people consume fewer calories because
his diet has banished their cravings by stabilizing blood chemistry.

"The measure of whether the diet is working is, Are you getting
cravings in the late afternoon and in the evenings?" he said. "People
who do really well lose 40 pounds and perhaps gain back 5 to 10, but
their blood chemistries continue to do well and they don't get the
cravings."

There is no scientific data on the South Beach diet except for a study
that Dr. Agatston conducted with some of his own patients, but the
study did not follow them long term.

There are many converts from Atkins based on the postings on Internet
message boards, some saying South Beach offers more variety.

The Atkins diet puts people into ketosis, a condition in which the
body converts stores of fat into energy because it has been deprived
of sufficient carbohydrates. While ketosis is not dangerous for
healthy people, Dr. Agatston said, he did not want his diet to induce
it because the patients he designed it for had hypertension.

Dr. Bonnie Brehm, an assistant professor at the University of
Cincinnati who has studied low-carbohydrate diets, said both Atkins
and South Beach dieters should be monitored long term for the effects
on kidney function, since high-protein diets make the kidneys work
harder. High protein intake can also strip the body of calcium, Dr.
Brehm said.

Despite their precautions, Dr. Brehm and other experts favor diets
rich in high-fiber carbohydrates and unsaturated fats. Dr. Agatston is
riding out the trend, finishing "The South Beach Diet Cookbook," due
out in April, and a guide to good fats and carbohydrates. "The South
Beach Diet," which had an initial run of 55,000 copies, has 4 million
copies in print in less than 6 months, and nearly 100,000 people have
subscribed to the diet's Web site. South Beach residents seem to have
embraced it; the local bookshop cannot keep it in stock, and stores
run out of its recommended foods — like Laughing Cow cheese.

And while the book has stayed on the New York Times best-seller list
for 25 weeks, a newcomer has knocked it out of the No. 1 spot in the
"advice, how-to and miscellaneous" category: "The Ultimate Weight
Solution" by Dr. Phil McGraw. Dr. McGraw asserts that people overeat
for emotional reasons, a concept that Dr. Agatston sniffs at.

"I don't buy that the cause of obesity in this country is stress," he
said. "The least stressful decade in this country was the 90's, and
that's when this country got fat."

But Ms. Jackson, the Chicago dietitian, said Dr. McGraw's focus on
changing attitudes toward food and toward exercising more made good
sense.

"The idea of `Don't look to a diet book to fix everything but make
small changes to what you're already doing' is one I'd like to see
more of," she said.



Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy |
Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top

  #2  
Old October 7th, 2003, 01:14 PM
Patricia Heil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?

No, it's only at the center because it's the next thing
to get its fifteen minutes of fame. It's the same low-carb
thing which only works due to reduction of calories, as
JAMA reported earlier this year.

Start an exercise program, eat lots of fruit & veg, whole
grains, and legumes, plus meat/dairy enough for good nutrition.
Limit fat and refined sugar.

Ferrante wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From The NY Times

October 7, 2003
New Doctor, New Diet, but Still No Cookies
By ABBY GOODNOUGH

IAMI BEACH, Oct. 6 — Theories abound as to what has propelled the
South Beach diet to the center of the weight-loss universe since the
book bearing its name was published in April. Is it the image it
conjures, of bikini-clad models picking at tropical fruit salad
between sun-drenched photo shoots? Is it the aqua shimmer of the book
jacket, as eye-catching as the surf off Ocean Drive?

Or is it that Dr. Arthur Agatston, the cardiologist behind the latest
low-carbohydrate, high-protein diet, is on to something?

Dr. Agatston — whose office is not in South Beach, by the way, but the
older, tamer neighborhood to its north — is not far from that giant of
diet doctors, the late Dr. Robert Atkins, in his belief that refined
sugar and white flour are the villains behind the nation's climbing
obesity rate. Like the Atkins diet, the South Beach diet strictly
limits bread, potatoes and other carbohydrates, especially during a
two-week initiation period, and allows the dieter to eat red meat,
eggs and cheese.

But while the Atkins diet allows just about any fatty food that is not
also starchy, Dr. Agatston advocates mostly unsaturated fats, like
those in olive oil, nuts and oily fish like salmon. Butter is nowhere
in the South Beach diet meal plans, nor is bacon or anything fried.
The South Beach diet also differs from Atkins in that it allows
carbohydrates — though only those high in fiber, like multigrain bread
and wild rice.

Dr. Agatston's premise is that most carbohydrate-rich foods are so
processed that they immediately turn to sugar in the body. That, Dr.
Agatston says, forces a quick spike in blood sugar and nearly as quick
a decline. The spikes lead to more hunger, he says, and — this is the
part that many experts dispute — to inevitable weight gain.

"Nobody in the history of man ever ate complex carbohydrates like we
have," Dr. Agatston said last week during an interview squeezed
between a photo shoot and a meeting about his new heart-imaging
center, set to open in December. He was late to the interview, so his
wife, Sari, a lawyer who is helping with publicity, filled the time by
talking about how even she, a bread lover, has come to accept
whole-wheat pita instead.

The diet revolves around the glycemic index — the amount that a
carbohydrate increases sugar in the blood compared with the amount
that the same quantity of white bread raises it. The concept of the
index as crucial to weight gain or loss has been around since the
early 1980's, when it was used to help people with diabetes choose
proper diets. But skeptics — including the American Diabetes
Association, which has not endorsed the index — say a food's glycemic
index fluctuates depending on how much is eaten and what other foods
are eaten.

Foods with a low glycemic index, like lentils, soy milk and low-fat,
artificially sweetened yogurt, do not raise blood sugar as quickly and
sharply as high-numbered items like gnocchi, baked potatoes and
pretzels.

High-glycemic-index foods cause the body to release a lot of insulin,
which quickly lowers the blood sugar again and causes hunger to recur,
the theory goes. Those with low indexes break down into sugar more
slowly, for longer-term energy.

Carrots are shunned, for example, because the body absorbs their
sugars rapidly. But Dr. Marion Nestle, chairwoman of the department of
nutrition and food studies at New York University, said it would take
over a pound of carrots to spike the blood sugar as high as the index
warns.

"What it comes down to is that this is a standard 1,200- to
1,400-calorie-a-day diet, so of course people are going to lose
weight," Dr. Nestle said. "I do think there's something to the
glycemic index, but I just don't think it's the be-all and end-all,
and that it's the root of obesity."

Dr. Nestle and other experts said they preferred South Beach to Atkins
because it promotes only healthy foods. Several studies suggested the
high-fat Atkins diet was safe for the heart in the short term, though
Dr. Gary Foster, an author of one study, said the South Beach diet
seemed "more informed."

"If this approach says: `Guess what. We think saturated fat is a bad
idea,' it will get a greater mass acceptance," said Dr. Foster of the
weight and eating disorders program at the University of Pennsylvania.

"If you compare the two menu to menu there is very little difference"
between the strict first phases of the Atkins and South Beach diets,
said Colette Heimowitz, director of education and research for Atkins
Nutritionals. "It's a myth that Atkins is all about meat and
discourages healthy fats."

The first two weeks of the South Beach diet are the most difficult,
according to testimonials in Dr. Agatston's book, because they allow
only foods with the lowest glycemic indexes. Fruits, juices, alcohol,
caffeinated coffee and most dairy foods are forbidden. Dessert is
part-skim ricotta cheese mixed with cocoa powder or almond extract.
The closest thing to starch is "Surprise South Beach Mashed
`Potatoes,' " otherwise known as puréed cauliflower.

The goal is to stabilize the blood sugar, and with it, the appetite.
The book promises weight loss of up to 13 pounds in the first two
weeks, which some dietitians see as a red flag.

"Any time you're promised a weight loss of over a pound a week, which
is the safe recommended amount, it's time to say, `What's going on
here?' " said Dawn Jackson, a dietitian at Northwestern Memorial
Wellness Institute in Chicago, who reviewed the diet for the American
Dietetic Association.

Yet Ms. Jackson said she liked Phases 2 and 3. In those, fiber-rich
carbohydrates and unsaturated fats are gradually reintroduced.
Participants are supposed to stay in Phase 2 until they reach their
desired weights, then move on to Phase 3 indefinitely. But it's back
to Phase 1 if they regain pounds, a step Ms. Jackson warned verged on
the unhealthy.

"If you don't read it for Phase 1 and just look at the healthy menu
plans in Phases 2 and 3, it's a good book for that," she said. "It's
definitely healthier than Atkins, but at the end of the day, if you
are losing weight on this diet it's because you're eating fewer
calories than you did before."

Dr. Agatston agrees, but says people consume fewer calories because
his diet has banished their cravings by stabilizing blood chemistry.

"The measure of whether the diet is working is, Are you getting
cravings in the late afternoon and in the evenings?" he said. "People
who do really well lose 40 pounds and perhaps gain back 5 to 10, but
their blood chemistries continue to do well and they don't get the
cravings."

There is no scientific data on the South Beach diet except for a study
that Dr. Agatston conducted with some of his own patients, but the
study did not follow them long term.

There are many converts from Atkins based on the postings on Internet
message boards, some saying South Beach offers more variety.

The Atkins diet puts people into ketosis, a condition in which the
body converts stores of fat into energy because it has been deprived
of sufficient carbohydrates. While ketosis is not dangerous for
healthy people, Dr. Agatston said, he did not want his diet to induce
it because the patients he designed it for had hypertension.

Dr. Bonnie Brehm, an assistant professor at the University of
Cincinnati who has studied low-carbohydrate diets, said both Atkins
and South Beach dieters should be monitored long term for the effects
on kidney function, since high-protein diets make the kidneys work
harder. High protein intake can also strip the body of calcium, Dr.
Brehm said.

Despite their precautions, Dr. Brehm and other experts favor diets
rich in high-fiber carbohydrates and unsaturated fats. Dr. Agatston is
riding out the trend, finishing "The South Beach Diet Cookbook," due
out in April, and a guide to good fats and carbohydrates. "The South
Beach Diet," which had an initial run of 55,000 copies, has 4 million
copies in print in less than 6 months, and nearly 100,000 people have
subscribed to the diet's Web site. South Beach residents seem to have
embraced it; the local bookshop cannot keep it in stock, and stores
run out of its recommended foods — like Laughing Cow cheese.

And while the book has stayed on the New York Times best-seller list
for 25 weeks, a newcomer has knocked it out of the No. 1 spot in the
"advice, how-to and miscellaneous" category: "The Ultimate Weight
Solution" by Dr. Phil McGraw. Dr. McGraw asserts that people overeat
for emotional reasons, a concept that Dr. Agatston sniffs at.

"I don't buy that the cause of obesity in this country is stress," he
said. "The least stressful decade in this country was the 90's, and
that's when this country got fat."

But Ms. Jackson, the Chicago dietitian, said Dr. McGraw's focus on
changing attitudes toward food and toward exercising more made good
sense.

"The idea of `Don't look to a diet book to fix everything but make
small changes to what you're already doing' is one I'd like to see
more of," she said.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy |
Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top

  #3  
Old October 7th, 2003, 02:36 PM
Carol Frilegh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?

In article , Patricia Heil
wrote:

No, it's only at the center because it's the next thing
to get its fifteen minutes of fame. It's the same low-carb
thing which only works due to reduction of calories, as
JAMA reported earlier this year.

Start an exercise program, eat lots of fruit & veg, whole
grains, and legumes, plus meat/dairy enough for good nutrition.
Limit fat and refined sugar.


Patricia, we can't all have grains and legumes, or any amount of
refined sugar and I really have my patience sorely tried by some of
your blanket solutions.

Many diet modes are effective and healthy and there is a lot of
contention over the food pyramid which your suggestions resemble.
I have been silent for a long time but am seeing that you frequently
post opinionated and inaccurate info and wish you would add JMO (just
my opinion) to many of the posts in which you try to sound like an
authority on a subject.
  #4  
Old October 7th, 2003, 03:52 PM
jmk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?



On 10/7/2003 9:36 AM, Carol Frilegh wrote:
In article , Patricia Heil
wrote:


No, it's only at the center because it's the next thing
to get its fifteen minutes of fame. It's the same low-carb
thing which only works due to reduction of calories, as
JAMA reported earlier this year.

Start an exercise program, eat lots of fruit & veg, whole
grains, and legumes, plus meat/dairy enough for good nutrition.
Limit fat and refined sugar.



Patricia, we can't all have grains and legumes, or any amount of
refined sugar and I really have my patience sorely tried by some of
your blanket solutions.


Well, she did generalize a bit but she also referenced a recent study
which is certainly fact-based.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...ct/289/14/1837

Many diet modes are effective and healthy and there is a lot of
contention over the food pyramid which your suggestions resemble.
I have been silent for a long time but am seeing that you frequently
post opinionated and inaccurate info


Again, she did reference a study to back up her information, I don't see
how this is inaccurate.

and wish you would add JMO (just
my opinion) to many of the posts in which you try to sound like an
authority on a subject.


  #5  
Old October 7th, 2003, 05:48 PM
Blue Mu_n
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:36:53 -0400, Carol Frilegh
wrote:

Patricia, we can't all have grains and legumes, or any amount of
refined sugar and I really have my patience sorely tried by some of
your blanket solutions.

Many diet modes are effective and healthy and there is a lot of
contention over the food pyramid which your suggestions resemble.
I have been silent for a long time but am seeing that you frequently
post opinionated and inaccurate info and wish you would add JMO (just
my opinion) to many of the posts in which you try to sound like an
authority on a subject.


I hope she falls off the planet.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
  #6  
Old October 7th, 2003, 07:09 PM
Carol Frilegh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?

In article , Blue Mu_n
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:36:53 -0400, Carol Frilegh
wrote:

Patricia, we can't all have grains and legumes, or any amount of
refined sugar and I really have my patience sorely tried by some of
your blanket solutions.

Many diet modes are effective and healthy and there is a lot of
contention over the food pyramid which your suggestions resemble.
I have been silent for a long time but am seeing that you frequently
post opinionated and inaccurate info and wish you would add JMO (just
my opinion) to many of the posts in which you try to sound like an
authority on a subject.


I hope she falls off the planet.


Moi? Mr. Mu-nster, I'm stricken :-(

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

  #7  
Old October 7th, 2003, 09:30 PM
JayJay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?


"jmk" wrote in message
...


On 10/7/2003 9:36 AM, Carol Frilegh wrote:
In article , Patricia Heil
wrote:


No, it's only at the center because it's the next thing
to get its fifteen minutes of fame. It's the same low-carb
thing which only works due to reduction of calories, as
JAMA reported earlier this year.

Start an exercise program, eat lots of fruit & veg, whole
grains, and legumes, plus meat/dairy enough for good nutrition.
Limit fat and refined sugar.



Patricia, we can't all have grains and legumes, or any amount of
refined sugar and I really have my patience sorely tried by some of
your blanket solutions.


Well, she did generalize a bit but she also referenced a recent study
which is certainly fact-based.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...ct/289/14/1837

Many diet modes are effective and healthy and there is a lot of
contention over the food pyramid which your suggestions resemble.
I have been silent for a long time but am seeing that you frequently
post opinionated and inaccurate info


Again, she did reference a study to back up her information, I don't see
how this is inaccurate.


The thing is - she consistently posts - statements to the effect of: "don't
do low carb, studies show you only lose weight through low calorie"... The
thing is, she then goes on to say, "eat lean meats, veggies and watched the
sugars". Which is basically LOW CARB.

On top of that she ignores the key fact of low carb diets. Limiting the
refined sugar and flour and eliminating it from your diet will cause a
natural decrease in appetite. (a natural appetite suppressant) which in
effect causes the person to eat less. Thus, yes, losing weight thru lower
calorie consumption.

So, why is she so negative about the term "low carb".. yet turns and
promotes a diet low in sugar and refined carbohydrates. (um, also known as
"low carb").

These questions have been asked of Patricia time and time again, but she
always ignores those posts.



  #8  
Old October 8th, 2003, 01:30 PM
jmk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?



On 10/7/2003 4:30 PM, JayJay wrote:
"jmk" wrote in message
...


On 10/7/2003 9:36 AM, Carol Frilegh wrote:

In article , Patricia Heil
wrote:



No, it's only at the center because it's the next thing
to get its fifteen minutes of fame. It's the same low-carb
thing which only works due to reduction of calories, as
JAMA reported earlier this year.

Start an exercise program, eat lots of fruit & veg, whole
grains, and legumes, plus meat/dairy enough for good nutrition.
Limit fat and refined sugar.



Patricia, we can't all have grains and legumes, or any amount of
refined sugar and I really have my patience sorely tried by some of
your blanket solutions.


Well, she did generalize a bit but she also referenced a recent study
which is certainly fact-based.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...ct/289/14/1837


Many diet modes are effective and healthy and there is a lot of
contention over the food pyramid which your suggestions resemble.
I have been silent for a long time but am seeing that you frequently
post opinionated and inaccurate info


Again, she did reference a study to back up her information, I don't see
how this is inaccurate.



The thing is - she consistently posts - statements to the effect of: "don't
do low carb, studies show you only lose weight through low calorie"... The
thing is, she then goes on to say, "eat lean meats, veggies and watched the
sugars". Which is basically LOW CARB.


Most diets do recommend eating lean meats, fruits and vegetables and
limiting refined sugars. This is true. This is could be low carb or
low fat. Both recommend these measures. The American Heart Association
recommends eating this way
(http://www.americanheart.com/present...dentifier=1330) and they
have certainly not been accused of being low carb -- at least not by
this group :-)

Studies do show that low carb dieters tend to loose weight because they
have reduced the number of calories that they consume. In fact, the
study that I am thinking of shows that low carb dieters reduce their
caloric intake more than low fat dieters.
(http://www.healthcarehub.com/News/Fe...le.cfm?AID=687 -- "But
what also is important is that the low-carbohydrate group actually
decreased their calorie consumption more than the low-fat group.";
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/63/72102.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}
-- "the researchers concluded that the low-fat dieters averaged 1,500 to
1,700 calories a day, while the low-carb dieters ate 1,600 to 1,800
calories a day.")

On top of that she ignores the key fact of low carb diets. Limiting the
refined sugar and flour and eliminating it from your diet will cause a
natural decrease in appetite. (a natural appetite suppressant) which in
effect causes the person to eat less. Thus, yes, losing weight thru lower
calorie consumption.


I agree with you. There is a lot of misinformation out there -- from
all sides. Low fat diets say to limit refined sugar and eat whole
grains and increase fiber as well. The emphasis is different on low fat
(increase fiber and limit refined/empty calories) and low carb (limit
all carbs and especially refined, if I understand correctly)

  #9  
Old October 8th, 2003, 02:30 PM
Jayjay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:30:56 -0400, jmk
wrote:




The thing is - she consistently posts - statements to the effect of: "don't
do low carb, studies show you only lose weight through low calorie"... The
thing is, she then goes on to say, "eat lean meats, veggies and watched the
sugars". Which is basically LOW CARB.


Most diets do recommend eating lean meats, fruits and vegetables and
limiting refined sugars. This is true. This is could be low carb or
low fat. Both recommend these measures. The American Heart Association
recommends eating this way
(http://www.americanheart.com/present...dentifier=1330) and they
have certainly not been accused of being low carb -- at least not by
this group :-)

Studies do show that low carb dieters tend to loose weight because they
have reduced the number of calories that they consume. In fact, the
study that I am thinking of shows that low carb dieters reduce their
caloric intake more than low fat dieters.
(http://www.healthcarehub.com/News/Fe...le.cfm?AID=687 -- "But
what also is important is that the low-carbohydrate group actually
decreased their calorie consumption more than the low-fat group.";
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/63/72102.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}
-- "the researchers concluded that the low-fat dieters averaged 1,500 to
1,700 calories a day, while the low-carb dieters ate 1,600 to 1,800
calories a day.")


We've forgotten another key component to the "low fat" diet side.
Many products out there that are "low fat" will replace the fat w/
sugar. And, like we've said before - there's the whole issue of
sugar and refined carbs causing the insulin spike, and also causing
the increased feeling of hunger, causing your body to feel the need
for more food consumption.

Could this difference between "low fat" and "low carb" be the key to
why low carb dieters have a lower caloric intake and are still
"satisfied" in hunger than the low fat dieters?

I know in my personal experience, that is certainly the case. Remove
fat, causes lack of saity (sp?) when eating. Replace fat w/ lowfat
alternatives, (ie, increased sugar) and I'm looking to snack between
meals more often.


On top of that she ignores the key fact of low carb diets. Limiting the
refined sugar and flour and eliminating it from your diet will cause a
natural decrease in appetite. (a natural appetite suppressant) which in
effect causes the person to eat less. Thus, yes, losing weight thru lower
calorie consumption.


I agree with you. There is a lot of misinformation out there -- from
all sides. Low fat diets say to limit refined sugar and eat whole
grains and increase fiber as well. The emphasis is different on low fat
(increase fiber and limit refined/empty calories) and low carb (limit
all carbs and especially refined, if I understand correctly)


I think it depends on what form of "Diet" name brand you follow. Of
course when you think of low carb, first thing that comes to mind for
most people is the media branding of Atkins. (induction phase, and
people eating nothing but bacon, eggs, hamburgers and green beans).
But that's a huge and grossly misrepresented view of "low carb" in
general.

For me, low carb is certainly limiting the refined carbs, and the
sugar. But I still eat carbs. I look for high fiber, whole grains,
etc. That doesn't mean I have whole wheat bread w/ every meal. But
I'll probably have 1 to 2 "servings" of whole grain products a day, as
well as 1 to 2 servings of fruit, 3 to 4 servings of vegetables, and
then my protein that comes in forms such as meat, dairy, powder, etc.


In the technical terms - low carb is anything less than 30% of your
daily calorie intake made up of carbs.
  #10  
Old October 8th, 2003, 02:54 PM
jmk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this better than Atkins?



On 10/8/2003 9:30 AM, Jayjay wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:30:56 -0400, jmk
wrote:




The thing is - she consistently posts - statements to the effect of: "don't
do low carb, studies show you only lose weight through low calorie"... The
thing is, she then goes on to say, "eat lean meats, veggies and watched the
sugars". Which is basically LOW CARB.


Most diets do recommend eating lean meats, fruits and vegetables and
limiting refined sugars. This is true. This is could be low carb or
low fat. Both recommend these measures. The American Heart Association
recommends eating this way
(http://www.americanheart.com/present...dentifier=1330) and they
have certainly not been accused of being low carb -- at least not by
this group :-)

Studies do show that low carb dieters tend to loose weight because they
have reduced the number of calories that they consume. In fact, the
study that I am thinking of shows that low carb dieters reduce their
caloric intake more than low fat dieters.
(http://www.healthcarehub.com/News/Fe...le.cfm?AID=687 -- "But
what also is important is that the low-carbohydrate group actually
decreased their calorie consumption more than the low-fat group.";
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/63/72102.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}
-- "the researchers concluded that the low-fat dieters averaged 1,500 to
1,700 calories a day, while the low-carb dieters ate 1,600 to 1,800
calories a day.")



We've forgotten another key component to the "low fat" diet side.
Many products out there that are "low fat" will replace the fat w/
sugar.


That's where reading the label comes in. Low fat diets do not say, "go
eat as much sugar as you can."

And, like we've said before - there's the whole issue of
sugar and refined carbs causing the insulin spike, and also causing
the increased feeling of hunger, causing your body to feel the need
for more food consumption.


Low fat diets say to limit consumption of refined carbs.

Could this difference between "low fat" and "low carb" be the key to
why low carb dieters have a lower caloric intake and are still
"satisfied" in hunger than the low fat dieters?


I don't find this to be true but clearly others do. I mean, increasing
fiber worked fine for me. I did not increase fat or protein. The main
thing that I changed was swapping out whole grains for refined grains
and making sure that I was at the upper end of the fiber recommendations.

I know in my personal experience, that is certainly the case. Remove
fat, causes lack of saity (sp?) when eating. Replace fat w/ lowfat
alternatives, (ie, increased sugar) and I'm looking to snack between
meals more often.


Again, your experience varies from mine. Then again, you live in your
body and I live in mine so I think that difference can be expected --
and appreciated even :-)

In fact, the studies for the PYY hormone that the news was so excited
about (hormone to make you feel full, etc.) a few weeks ago stated that
increasing *fiber* caused this hormone to increase in your body
naturally. Of course, we all know that there is more than one hormone
involved here but my point is, fiber can make you feel full and there
does seem to be some science to back this up.

On top of that she ignores the key fact of low carb diets. Limiting the
refined sugar and flour and eliminating it from your diet will cause a
natural decrease in appetite. (a natural appetite suppressant) which in
effect causes the person to eat less. Thus, yes, losing weight thru lower
calorie consumption.


I agree with you. There is a lot of misinformation out there -- from
all sides. Low fat diets say to limit refined sugar and eat whole
grains and increase fiber as well. The emphasis is different on low fat
(increase fiber and limit refined/empty calories) and low carb (limit
all carbs and especially refined, if I understand correctly)



I think it depends on what form of "Diet" name brand you follow. Of
course when you think of low carb, first thing that comes to mind for
most people is the media branding of Atkins. (induction phase, and
people eating nothing but bacon, eggs, hamburgers and green beans).
But that's a huge and grossly misrepresented view of "low carb" in
general.

For me, low carb is certainly limiting the refined carbs, and the
sugar. But I still eat carbs. I look for high fiber, whole grains,
etc. That doesn't mean I have whole wheat bread w/ every meal. But
I'll probably have 1 to 2 "servings" of whole grain products a day, as
well as 1 to 2 servings of fruit, 3 to 4 servings of vegetables, and
then my protein that comes in forms such as meat, dairy, powder, etc.


In the technical terms - low carb is anything less than 30% of your
daily calorie intake made up of carbs.


Right, and I'm up there with the AHA recommendations of about twice that
and that is working fine for me. All that I was trying to say is that
low fat does not mean eat all the sugar you can or get all your carbs
from refined grain, etc. Both low fat nutritionists and low carb
nutritionists recommended eating high fiber whole grains. As I
understand it both "groups" recommend eating a variety of different
whole grains and a variety of fruits and vegetables, etc. Both low fat
and low carb recommend eating lean meats, veggies and watching the
refined/processed stuff. Both groups say read that labels and educate
yourself.

 




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