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#91
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Very discouraged; please help
"The Historian" wrote in message ups.com... teachrmama wrote: "Willow Herself" wrote in message et... Either way I think the expression is being widely overused in here, a lot of people are assuming a lot about others.... generally without having a clue what the h... they are talking about. I had never heard the saying until I came here. But I agree with you--you can't assume that someone is in denial unless you live in their skin. I have to disagree. I lived most of my adult life as a FFID. I think I can determine if a person is a FFID based on what they say or write. Besides, a person who is a FFID, or, perhaps more kindly, suffering from a FFID disorder, doesn't know they have a problem. Living in their skin doesn't tell you anything other than the facts the FFID is unhappy and there's always a reason they can't lose weight. I have 2 sisters that are extremely heavy. One is morbidly obese, and suffers from all kinds of problems. She claims that she barely eats anything, but doesn't ever lose weight. Perhaps she is right--her metabolism could be extremely slow. But I don't think she is in denial as much as in a very hopeless psychological state of being. Because she can tell you that she needs to lose weight--she just doesn't seem able to take the steps to get there for long enough to make any difference. I know that before I heard the doctor tell me that if I wanted to see my children grow up I'd better lose some weight and reduce the stress in my life, I knew I should lose weight--even knew how--but just hadn't quite gotten around to making that commitment. I guess I see FFID as insulting and negative, rather than caring and concerned. Which is why I don't use it. But others may not perceive it the same as I do. |
#92
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Very discouraged; please help
"The Historian" wrote in message ups.com... teachrmama wrote: "Willow Herself" wrote in message et... Either way I think the expression is being widely overused in here, a lot of people are assuming a lot about others.... generally without having a clue what the h... they are talking about. I had never heard the saying until I came here. But I agree with you--you can't assume that someone is in denial unless you live in their skin. I have to disagree. I lived most of my adult life as a FFID. I think I can determine if a person is a FFID based on what they say or write. Besides, a person who is a FFID, or, perhaps more kindly, suffering from a FFID disorder, doesn't know they have a problem. Living in their skin doesn't tell you anything other than the facts the FFID is unhappy and there's always a reason they can't lose weight. Neil, recovering FFID No you can't. For many reasons. Posts are steriles, you don't have the context in which it's written, the ability of the person to actually express themselves right (I should know about that, english is my 3rd language), you don't have body language, you don't have the history behind the post. You're putting a cold judgement with very little information, no background, no context. There is much more to weight loss than food and exercise. The fact that you've been there doesn't give you the ability, or the right, to judge people. As I said previously, the only person you have the right and the capacity to judge, you see in the mirror every morning. You have done an awesome progress, kudo for that, but it doesn't give you any qualification to "fix" others. Keep in mind that everybody in here "have been there", a lot of us "made it to goal" and have maintained the loss, and yet that doesn't give us any "special abilities" over others. We can share experiences, support each others, but to each his/her path. I wasn't pointing at you with my post, I've done that in the past also and I regret it. Who are we to "know better"? Bull... Will~ |
#93
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Very discouraged; please help
Willow Herself wrote: "The Historian" wrote in message ups.com... teachrmama wrote: "Willow Herself" wrote in message et... Either way I think the expression is being widely overused in here, a lot of people are assuming a lot about others.... generally without having a clue what the h... they are talking about. I had never heard the saying until I came here. But I agree with you--you can't assume that someone is in denial unless you live in their skin. I have to disagree. I lived most of my adult life as a FFID. I think I can determine if a person is a FFID based on what they say or write. Besides, a person who is a FFID, or, perhaps more kindly, suffering from a FFID disorder, doesn't know they have a problem. Living in their skin doesn't tell you anything other than the facts the FFID is unhappy and there's always a reason they can't lose weight. Neil, recovering FFID No you can't. For many reasons. Posts are steriles, you don't have the context in which it's written, the ability of the person to actually express themselves right (I should know about that, english is my 3rd language), you don't have body language, you don't have the history behind the post. With all due respect, Willow, and much respect is due, that's nonsense. "Body language?" Are you going to toss out ALL written communication? You're putting a cold judgement with very little information, no background, no context. There is much more to weight loss than food and exercise. Mechanically, I doubt it. Calories in, calories out, seems to be the way the weight loss world works. If you are including such matter as emotional states, etc, then I humbly suggest you not muddy the water by including them. The fact that you've been there doesn't give you the ability, or the right, to judge people. To judge them is to condemn them to hell. I don't recall I've done that here. I haven't even done so on the chess newsgroups. As I said previously, the only person you have the right and the capacity to judge, you see in the mirror every morning. See my previous note. You have done an awesome progress, kudo for that, but it doesn't give you any qualification to "fix" others. I'm not aware I've tried to "fix" anyone. However, I do recall posting an opinion to a newsgroup called alt.support.diet. People post and discuss topics all the time on that group. Do you think, Willow, that people should be allowed to do this? Keep in mind that everybody in here "have been there", a lot of us "made it to goal" and have maintained the loss, and yet that doesn't give us any "special abilities" over others. I think it shows you have worked very hard to lose your excess weight and regain your good health. Hard work is indeed a special ability. We can share experiences, support each others, but to each his/her path. I agree. And when someone comes on ASD telling us that she can't lose weight and just what she WON'T do to lose weight, I reserve the right to discuss her post. I wasn't pointing at you with my post. You've pasted a bulls-eye on me for this post. Or at least tried to; I think you stuck it on yourself by mistake. I've done that in the past also and I regret it. Who are we to "know better"? Bull... This entire thread has been bull. I'm outta here! Neil, who has better things to do with his time. |
#94
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Very discouraged; please help
Edna Pearl wrote: "The Historian" wrote in message ups.com... From the website www.fathappens.com: "Gosh Fran, you have bought into the idea that being fat is your fault...It's not your fault - but it is your burden." Edna sounds like a convert. Actually, I've never heard of this website or this person. A quick glance reveals a lot of pink and a thread on "gastric band bypass" shudder Are you recommending the website? Do you think it's worth bothering with? I think it's the worst export from the UK since mad cow. Or are you just trying to be cute and I'm not getting the joke -- if so that's fine, I'm just asking whether this website is worth my time. ep Edna, it's hard to take seriously someone who complains about not making progress losing weight and then declares that she won't use the basic measuring tools of dieters. You do realize calorie counting is a tool, don't you, and not an end in itself? |
#95
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Very discouraged; please help
Snipping stuff
No you can't. For many reasons. Posts are steriles, you don't have the context in which it's written, the ability of the person to actually express themselves right (I should know about that, english is my 3rd language), you don't have body language, you don't have the history behind the post. With all due respect, Willow, and much respect is due, that's nonsense. "Body language?" Are you going to toss out ALL written communication? Where did I ever said anything even remotely ressembling that idea? I'm saying that you can't judge somebody simply by a post on a newsgroup. You don't have half the information needed to make the kind of judgement that is made in here everyday. I face those people in person, everyday, that's my job, and my first impression is often WAY OFF, they surprise me with their strength of character, their ability to bouce back and their tenacity. You're putting a cold judgement with very little information, no background, no context. There is much more to weight loss than food and exercise. Mechanically, I doubt it. Calories in, calories out, seems to be the way the weight loss world works. If you are including such matter as emotional states, etc, then I humbly suggest you not muddy the water by including them. Muddy the water????? If weight loss was as simple as calorie in calorie out, it wouldn't be an issue.. and I wouldn't have a job... Weight loss is very much connected to emotional issues, physical issues even mental issues. Long lasting weight loss that is... The fact that you've been there doesn't give you the ability, or the right, to judge people. To judge them is to condemn them to hell. I don't recall I've done that here. I haven't even done so on the chess newsgroups. To judge what they are doing and how "honest" they are with themselves... that's what I meant. I thought it was obvious... sorry.. As I said previously, the only person you have the right and the capacity to judge, you see in the mirror every morning. See my previous note. You have done an awesome progress, kudo for that, but it doesn't give you any qualification to "fix" others. I'm not aware I've tried to "fix" anyone. However, I do recall posting an opinion to a newsgroup called alt.support.diet. People post and discuss topics all the time on that group. Do you think, Willow, that people should be allowed to do this? Again, I never said anything like that, you post whatever you want and I'll do the same. Trying to "open someone's eyes" about their "FFID" disorder goes WAY beyond "posting an opinion about weight loss" or "discussing a post" Keep in mind that everybody in here "have been there", a lot of us "made it to goal" and have maintained the loss, and yet that doesn't give us any "special abilities" over others. I think it shows you have worked very hard to lose your excess weight and regain your good health. Hard work is indeed a special ability. Again you miss my point.. hard work and perseverance is a skill, or special ability, doesn't give one any ability to deal with other people's weight loss. We can share experiences, support each others, but to each his/her path. I agree. And when someone comes on ASD telling us that she can't lose weight and just what she WON'T do to lose weight, I reserve the right to discuss her post. You wouldn't believe how many people, EVERY WEEK, who walk in the door at my center, telling me how they can't lose weight, telling how they've tried for years and nothing works... and I just listen, I don't agree with them, but I don't judge... guess what... 85% at least of them come back the following week with an entirely different attitude. They don't need me to "open their eyes" they need someone to just listen and let them find their own solutions. I wasn't pointing at you with my post. You've pasted a bulls-eye on me for this post. Or at least tried to; I think you stuck it on yourself by mistake. I don't even know what "pasting a bulls-eye" means... so... but again, I was NOT pointing at you. You're one of the people I've noted used that expression, not the only one... if you feel attacked... well.. as they say, if the shoe fits.. I've done that in the past also and I regret it. Who are we to "know better"? Bull... This entire thread has been bull. I'm outta here! Oh my... did I dare oppose the great Neil??????? *grin* chill out man.. you take yourself way too seriously... Will~ |
#96
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Very discouraged; please help
"teachrmama" wrote in message ... "The Historian" wrote in message ups.com... teachrmama wrote: "Willow Herself" wrote in message et... Either way I think the expression is being widely overused in here, a lot of people are assuming a lot about others.... generally without having a clue what the h... they are talking about. I had never heard the saying until I came here. But I agree with you--you can't assume that someone is in denial unless you live in their skin. I have to disagree. I lived most of my adult life as a FFID. I think I can determine if a person is a FFID based on what they say or write. Besides, a person who is a FFID, or, perhaps more kindly, suffering from a FFID disorder, doesn't know they have a problem. Living in their skin doesn't tell you anything other than the facts the FFID is unhappy and there's always a reason they can't lose weight. I have 2 sisters that are extremely heavy. One is morbidly obese, and suffers from all kinds of problems. She claims that she barely eats anything, but doesn't ever lose weight. Perhaps she is right--her metabolism could be extremely slow. But I don't think she is in denial as much as in a very hopeless psychological state of being. Because she can tell you that she needs to lose weight--she just doesn't seem able to take the steps to get there for long enough to make any difference. I know that before I heard the doctor tell me that if I wanted to see my children grow up I'd better lose some weight and reduce the stress in my life, I knew I should lose weight--even knew how--but just hadn't quite gotten around to making that commitment. I guess I see FFID as insulting and negative, rather than caring and concerned. Which is why I don't use it. But others may not perceive it the same as I do. I always thought a person in denial meant that they didn't know they had a problem. I think being in, or coming to this group, or dieting, or whatever, pretty much means they know they have a problem. Therefore they're not in denial. Jen |
#97
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Very discouraged; please help
Number one, I don't weigh myself, and I'm not going to. I don't count calories, and I'm not going to. Good luck to you. |
#98
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Very discouraged; please help
"Jen" wrote in message ... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "The Historian" wrote in message ups.com... teachrmama wrote: "Willow Herself" wrote in message et... Either way I think the expression is being widely overused in here, a lot of people are assuming a lot about others.... generally without having a clue what the h... they are talking about. I had never heard the saying until I came here. But I agree with you--you can't assume that someone is in denial unless you live in their skin. I have to disagree. I lived most of my adult life as a FFID. I think I can determine if a person is a FFID based on what they say or write. Besides, a person who is a FFID, or, perhaps more kindly, suffering from a FFID disorder, doesn't know they have a problem. Living in their skin doesn't tell you anything other than the facts the FFID is unhappy and there's always a reason they can't lose weight. I have 2 sisters that are extremely heavy. One is morbidly obese, and suffers from all kinds of problems. She claims that she barely eats anything, but doesn't ever lose weight. Perhaps she is right--her metabolism could be extremely slow. But I don't think she is in denial as much as in a very hopeless psychological state of being. Because she can tell you that she needs to lose weight--she just doesn't seem able to take the steps to get there for long enough to make any difference. I know that before I heard the doctor tell me that if I wanted to see my children grow up I'd better lose some weight and reduce the stress in my life, I knew I should lose weight--even knew how--but just hadn't quite gotten around to making that commitment. I guess I see FFID as insulting and negative, rather than caring and concerned. Which is why I don't use it. But others may not perceive it the same as I do. I always thought a person in denial meant that they didn't know they had a problem. I think being in, or coming to this group, or dieting, or whatever, pretty much means they know they have a problem. Therefore they're not in denial. I'm beginning to think that it doesn't mean they don't know they are overweight--it means that they don't think they can lose weight, no matter what. So they deny that eating less and exercising more will help them. |
#99
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Very discouraged; please help
"teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Jen" wrote in message ... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "The Historian" wrote in message ups.com... teachrmama wrote: "Willow Herself" wrote in message et... Either way I think the expression is being widely overused in here, a lot of people are assuming a lot about others.... generally without having a clue what the h... they are talking about. I had never heard the saying until I came here. But I agree with you--you can't assume that someone is in denial unless you live in their skin. I have to disagree. I lived most of my adult life as a FFID. I think I can determine if a person is a FFID based on what they say or write. Besides, a person who is a FFID, or, perhaps more kindly, suffering from a FFID disorder, doesn't know they have a problem. Living in their skin doesn't tell you anything other than the facts the FFID is unhappy and there's always a reason they can't lose weight. I have 2 sisters that are extremely heavy. One is morbidly obese, and suffers from all kinds of problems. She claims that she barely eats anything, but doesn't ever lose weight. Perhaps she is right--her metabolism could be extremely slow. But I don't think she is in denial as much as in a very hopeless psychological state of being. Because she can tell you that she needs to lose weight--she just doesn't seem able to take the steps to get there for long enough to make any difference. I know that before I heard the doctor tell me that if I wanted to see my children grow up I'd better lose some weight and reduce the stress in my life, I knew I should lose weight--even knew how--but just hadn't quite gotten around to making that commitment. I guess I see FFID as insulting and negative, rather than caring and concerned. Which is why I don't use it. But others may not perceive it the same as I do. I always thought a person in denial meant that they didn't know they had a problem. I think being in, or coming to this group, or dieting, or whatever, pretty much means they know they have a problem. Therefore they're not in denial. I'm beginning to think that it doesn't mean they don't know they are overweight--it means that they don't think they can lose weight, no matter what. So they deny that eating less and exercising more will help them. I guess it depends on what they're denying then. Jen |
#100
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Very discouraged; please help
Very good measured response though I doubt that Edna will pay any attention.
Calories count and the only way Edna will lose weight is to burn more calories than she consumes. Everything boils down to adopting new permanent lifestyle changes that result in negative energy balances so that weight will be loss. You can eat less caloric dense foods and exercise more via these new lifestyles you must adopt to drop to a healthier weight. "determined" wrote in message ... "Edna Pearl" wrote in message ... Well Jesus Christ, that's real encouraging. I don't think I've ever received a message that unpleasant and discouraging in a support group from anybody -- except of course trolls. Fortunately, the message is so totally loaded with fallacies I can't take it very seriously. It focusses entirely on calorie-counting while failing to point out a single solitary thing I might change except suggesting I count calories. No, that is not true. I said you need to find out what your current caloric intake is so you can figure out what you are maintaining at, because obviously you are maintaining, which means you do not have a caloric deficit. I also said you need to get your heart rate up to burn more calories. Lifting weight doesn't do that and neither does yoga type stretching. I also suggested starting with a 30 minute walk every day. So as far as not pointing out "a single solitary thing I might change", maybe you need to reread my post. Plenty of people, in fact, MOST people lose weight without counting calories. Including people you purport to admire, like Krista, who knows considerably more about fitness and nutrition than you do. I do admire Krista. She has a tremendous amount of info on her website. However, ymmv. If Krista's information is working out for you, then by all means, keep doing what you are doing. Trying to find a "baseline" and then work around it is voodoo dieting that fails to take account of how much a person's bodily processes and metabolism changes -- it's a waste of time unless the person takes some motivation from the counting process itself, and I don't. If you don't know what your average calorie intake is, how can you know what you need to change? Furthermore, my reference to "weather permitting" simply means, for example, that I don't swim outdoors in winter (we just had an entire thread here about people who don't bicycle in cold weather, which, in fact, I DO) -- and your assumption that it means something else says a lot more about you than it does me. NO, what you said was "I kayak, bicycle, hike, and swim when weather and my energy evels permit". YOu can hike and bicycle in almost any weather, so your blanket statement sounds more like a copout than anything. Oh, and thanks for telling me I need to stop feeling sorry for myself about my mom dying. Aren't you a special person. YOu know, I was not referring to your mother dying. I am sorry for your loss, but I am referring to your "poor me" attitude about weight loss - you have a plethora of reasons (excuses) why you are fat, and why you cannot lose weight. There are many people here with super busy lifestyles, health problems, etc, that have managed to lose plenty of weight. I could go on and on, but **** that, I have a life. If nobody in this ng can come up with anything better than that, I guess I know all I need to know about this "support group." I guess Edna what you really need right now is a hug. Well, here you go HUGS. I guess you didn't come here for honest opinions and advice, but for atta boys and warm fuzzy encouragement. Sorry, I don't do that. But maybe someone else here will. Oh, and Betsy, **** you. "You might not like hearing that," but it's considerably nicer than and just as productive as what you've said to me. How's this for advice: You need learn at least learn some manners, if you can't manage to grow any compassion. Manners? I guess I could take some lessons from you, huh? ep "determined" wrote in message ... "Edna Pearl" wrote in message ... Can you help? My progress just feels too slow, and I am discouraged. Number one, I don't weigh myself, and I'm not going to. I don't count calories, and I'm not going to. I'm 49yo, and I've been through that ****, and it wasn't productive when I was younger, and it's not going to be productive now that I'm older, perimenopausal, with all sorts of orthopedic problems. I don't count things in any aspect of my life. I'm 5'4", American , I have weighed in the 130s most of my life, size 8-10. I topped out around 230, size 22, while I was ill and my mother was dying last year. I weigh around 200 right now and am a size 16-18. I went through a couple of kinds of hell last year. When my mother finally died in March and I quit drinking my way through my pain in May, the first 30 pounds dropped off immediately. (I know this because I was going to the doctor and hospital frequently and was weighed there. Again, I don't weigh myself.) I write for a living and have an sedentary, academic, artistic lifestyle, except for the fact that I ride my bike to do my errands a couple of times a week, and I have large gardens (flower and vegetable) that my SO maintains and that I help in and walk around in every day. Add to that, I try to lift a couple of times a week (heavy, complex). I kayak, bicycle, hike, and swim when weather and my energy levels permit -- so I do one of these about once a week. I start my days with stretching, including yoga postures. I sleep 10-12 hours per day. Weird, I know, but I've always needed a lot of sleep to function at my best. I believe I have a metabolism that is toward the slow end of the spectrum. I also have some physical injuries (atrophied right rhomboid, chronic plantar fasciitis (sp?) in left foot, chronic subluxation of left hip, and, at the moment, tendonitis in my left shoulder and elbow that has been there for MONTHS and just WON'T get better). I am in fairly constant pain, which interrupts my sleep. Okay, so I quit drinking in May and started my current way of eating in mid-October. I keep a checklist of food portions on my fridge and check off what I eat, as follows: 2-3 dairy 3-4 fruit 4 veggies 6 meat/protein 8 whole grains/carbs The portions are as follows: Dairy: a cup of milk or yogurt, or 1-1/2 ounces of nonfat or lowfat cheese Fruit: a medium apple, banana, or orange; 1/2 cup of chopped cooked or canned fruit; or 3/4 cup of fruit juice Vegetables: a cup of raw, leafy vegetables; 1/2 cup of other vegetables (cooked or chopped raw); or 3/4 cup of vegetable juice Meat/protein: one ounce cooked lean meat, poultry, or fish; one egg; 1/2 cup of cooked legumes; three ounces of tofu; or two tablespoons of peanut butter Grains/carbs: one-half bagel, one slice of bread, 3/4 cup of ready-to-eat cereal, 1/2 cup of cooked cereal or pasta, or 3 cups of popcorn I add flax seed oil to my diet and take calcium and a good multivitamin daily. I take extra iron when I have a big blood loss, which occasionally happens during this phase of the Joys Of Middle-Aged Womanhood. I have adhered to this WOE pretty closely since mid-October. My butt shrank a little, immediately. My waist has not budged. Not BUDGED. My next goal is to get into a pair of size 14 technical pants I have hanging in my closet, and I am NO CLOSER than I was at the end of October. Before I quit drinking, started watching my diet, and developed a better exercise routine, I was bedridden for months at a time, slept even more than I do now, drank heavily, ate whatever the hell I wanted (including fast food, restaurant portions four times a decent portion size and swimming in butter, cookie binges, whatever). It seems to me that I should be seeing more results than I am. I'm still tired and fat, and I still have low energy. Are my expectations unrealistic? Is my thinking wrong? How can I see results? ep Are your expectations unrealistic? Maybe. You want something that for most of us requires sacrifice, hard work, and diligence. You don't seem willing to do what it will take to reach the goal you want. Is your thinking wrong? That is very subjective, but imo, yes. You have a very close minded attitude towards counting calories. You seem to be unwilling to change, and ****ed off that you can't lose weight with your current WOL. Change happens when we become willing to take the necessary steps to make it happen. The question is, how bad do you want it? How can you see results? Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get with the program! You need to figure out where you stand with your current caloric intake to find out what you "maintain" on. You need to get your heart rate up and burn some extra calories to create a better deficit. Yoga stretches don't count. Doing exercise "when weather and energy permit" is a copout attitude. You need to make more of an effort if you want to see results. Walking for 30 minutes per day would be a good start. Sleeping for 10-12 hrs per day sounds to me like serious depression or some other medical problem that needs addressing. Have you had all your levels checked? Had a recent panel done? Ruled out any hormone issues? You're either going to have to accept your body the way it is now, or become willing to pay the price to reach your goals. You might not like hearing that, but that's the way it is. Losing weight doesn't occur through osmosis ;-) |
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