Is ketosis really the "backup" system?

Ignoramus16674 wrote:

They say that burning carbs is the "primary" system of getting energy,
and burning fat is secondary. I am curious what is the basis for
putting one first and another second.

i
\



Fron the threads, it seems as people are trying really hard to make the
issue of food digestion into a simple list.

Alcohol first
Carbs next (and this is somehow Primary)
FATS after that
Protein breakdown after that.....

It could be important to note the relative simplicity/complexity of the
basic molecules of :

Alcohol C2H5OH

Glucose C6H12O6

Oleic Acid C17H33COOH (olive oil)

Stearic Acid CH3(CH2)16COOH) (saturated fat in beef tallow)

Proteins -- No examples - too complex?

It would seem that the simplicity of the molecule might have a bearing
on the speed with which it is digested.

Then, one would concur that alcohol would be figested first, followed by
glucose and the fatty acids would be coming along next.... and maybe
proteins would be last because of the complexity of breaking these
things down to molecularly digestible pieces.

However, this is too much chemistry for most dieters, dieticians and MD's.

Jim

Ignoramus16674 wrote:

They say that burning carbs is the "primary" system of getting energy,
and burning fat is secondary. I am curious what is the basis for
putting one first and another second.

i
\



Fron the threads, it seems as people are trying really hard to make the
issue of food digestion into a simple list.

Alcohol first
Carbs next (and this is somehow Primary)
FATS after that
Protein breakdown after that.....

It could be important to note the relative simplicity/complexity of the
basic molecules of :

Alcohol C2H5OH

Glucose C6H12O6

Oleic Acid C17H33COOH (olive oil)

Stearic Acid CH3(CH2)16COOH) (saturated fat in beef tallow)

Proteins -- No examples - too complex?

It would seem that the simplicity of the molecule might have a bearing
on the speed with which it is digested.

Then, one would concur that alcohol would be figested first, followed by
glucose and the fatty acids would be coming along next.... and maybe
proteins would be last because of the complexity of breaking these
things down to molecularly digestible pieces.

However, this is too much chemistry for most dieters, dieticians and MD's.

Jim

jbuch wrote:
:: Ignoramus16674 wrote:
::
::: They say that burning carbs is the "primary" system of getting
::: energy, and burning fat is secondary. I am curious what is the
::: basis for putting one first and another second.
:::
::: i
:: \
::
::
::
:: Fron the threads, it seems as people are trying really hard to make
:: the issue of food digestion into a simple list.
::
:: Alcohol first
:: Carbs next (and this is somehow Primary)
:: FATS after that
:: Protein breakdown after that.....
::
:: It could be important to note the relative simplicity/complexity of
:: the basic molecules of :
::
:: Alcohol C2H5OH
::
:: Glucose C6H12O6
::
:: Oleic Acid C17H33COOH (olive oil)
::
:: Stearic Acid CH3(CH2)16COOH) (saturated fat in beef tallow)
::
:: Proteins -- No examples - too complex?
::
:: It would seem that the simplicity of the molecule might have a
:: bearing
:: on the speed with which it is digested.
::
:: Then, one would concur that alcohol would be figested first,
:: followed by glucose and the fatty acids would be coming along
:: next.... and maybe proteins would be last because of the complexity
:: of breaking these
:: things down to molecularly digestible pieces.
::
:: However, this is too much chemistry for most dieters, dieticians and
:: MD's.

The result of this is that if one floods the body with excessive amounts of
easily disgestable things, which are also low in nutrition, then the good
stuff will convert to fat and be stored. It would seem that the only time to
body can effectively use easy-to-disgest food items in when heavy exercise
is involved. In that case, the easily digestable calories get slopped up to
supply the quick energy demands and more nutrient dense foods can then
replenish/rebuild the body.

::
:: Jim

jbuch wrote:
:: Ignoramus16674 wrote:
::
::: They say that burning carbs is the "primary" system of getting
::: energy, and burning fat is secondary. I am curious what is the
::: basis for putting one first and another second.
:::
::: i
:: \
::
::
::
:: Fron the threads, it seems as people are trying really hard to make
:: the issue of food digestion into a simple list.
::
:: Alcohol first
:: Carbs next (and this is somehow Primary)
:: FATS after that
:: Protein breakdown after that.....
::
:: It could be important to note the relative simplicity/complexity of
:: the basic molecules of :
::
:: Alcohol C2H5OH
::
:: Glucose C6H12O6
::
:: Oleic Acid C17H33COOH (olive oil)
::
:: Stearic Acid CH3(CH2)16COOH) (saturated fat in beef tallow)
::
:: Proteins -- No examples - too complex?
::
:: It would seem that the simplicity of the molecule might have a
:: bearing
:: on the speed with which it is digested.
::
:: Then, one would concur that alcohol would be figested first,
:: followed by glucose and the fatty acids would be coming along
:: next.... and maybe proteins would be last because of the complexity
:: of breaking these
:: things down to molecularly digestible pieces.
::
:: However, this is too much chemistry for most dieters, dieticians and
:: MD's.

The result of this is that if one floods the body with excessive amounts of
easily disgestable things, which are also low in nutrition, then the good
stuff will convert to fat and be stored. It would seem that the only time to
body can effectively use easy-to-disgest food items in when heavy exercise
is involved. In that case, the easily digestable calories get slopped up to
supply the quick energy demands and more nutrient dense foods can then
replenish/rebuild the body.

::
:: Jim

RRzVRR wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

It's interesting that when you get into the chemistry, ketones
are the only fuel. Both fat and glucose get converted to ketones
before getting burned.

That's incorrect. The body uses both FFA and glucose without
going through ketone production.

A good read on Fatty Acid Oxidation:
http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...oxidation.html

That diagram clearly shows fatty acids being converted into a
ketone for consumption in the Krebs cycle.

Fat - fatty acid - ketone in blood - CO2+H2O

Carb - ketone in mitochondria - CO2+H2O

Fat or carb, it gets converted into ketones as it is being burned.

RRzVRR wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

It's interesting that when you get into the chemistry, ketones
are the only fuel. Both fat and glucose get converted to ketones
before getting burned.

That's incorrect. The body uses both FFA and glucose without
going through ketone production.

A good read on Fatty Acid Oxidation:
http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...oxidation.html

That diagram clearly shows fatty acids being converted into a
ketone for consumption in the Krebs cycle.

Fat - fatty acid - ketone in blood - CO2+H2O

Carb - ketone in mitochondria - CO2+H2O

Fat or carb, it gets converted into ketones as it is being burned.

On 19 Aug 2004 15:26:22 -0700, (Doug Freyburger)
wrote:

RRzVRR wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

It's interesting that when you get into the chemistry, ketones
are the only fuel. Both fat and glucose get converted to ketones
before getting burned.

That's incorrect. The body uses both FFA and glucose without
going through ketone production.

A good read on Fatty Acid Oxidation:
http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...oxidation.html

That diagram clearly shows fatty acids being converted into a
ketone for consumption in the Krebs cycle.

Fat - fatty acid - ketone in blood - CO2+H2O

Carb - ketone in mitochondria - CO2+H2O

Fat or carb, it gets converted into ketones as it is being burned.

Doug,

Rudy is correct. The body uses FFA and glucose without ketone
production. I'll leave it to someone with more time and energy on
their hands to try and explain why your reasoning is confused. Your
"expert" pronouncements are going to need warning labels if you're not
more careful.

"During high rates of fatty acid oxidation, primarily in the liver,
large amounts of acetyl-CoA are generated. These exceed the capacity
of the TCA cycle, and one result is the synthesis of ketone bodies, or
ketogenesis."
Lee Rodgers
Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org
CHAT http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
Low-Carb Connoisseur http://www.low-carb.com

On 19 Aug 2004 15:26:22 -0700, (Doug Freyburger)
wrote:

RRzVRR wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

It's interesting that when you get into the chemistry, ketones
are the only fuel. Both fat and glucose get converted to ketones
before getting burned.

That's incorrect. The body uses both FFA and glucose without
going through ketone production.

A good read on Fatty Acid Oxidation:
http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...oxidation.html

That diagram clearly shows fatty acids being converted into a
ketone for consumption in the Krebs cycle.

Fat - fatty acid - ketone in blood - CO2+H2O

Carb - ketone in mitochondria - CO2+H2O

Fat or carb, it gets converted into ketones as it is being burned.

Doug,

Rudy is correct. The body uses FFA and glucose without ketone
production. I'll leave it to someone with more time and energy on
their hands to try and explain why your reasoning is confused. Your
"expert" pronouncements are going to need warning labels if you're not
more careful.

"During high rates of fatty acid oxidation, primarily in the liver,
large amounts of acetyl-CoA are generated. These exceed the capacity
of the TCA cycle, and one result is the synthesis of ketone bodies, or
ketogenesis."
Lee Rodgers
Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org
CHAT http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
Low-Carb Connoisseur http://www.low-carb.com

Doug Freyburger wrote:

RRzVRR wrote:

Doug Freyburger wrote:


It's interesting that when you get into the chemistry, ketones
are the only fuel. Both fat and glucose get converted to ketones
before getting burned.

That's incorrect. The body uses both FFA and glucose without
going through ketone production.

A good read on Fatty Acid Oxidation:
http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...oxidation.html


No it doesn't. My only guess is that you're thinking that
acetyl CoA is the same as ketones.

That diagram clearly shows fatty acids being converted into a
ketone for consumption in the Krebs cycle.

Fat - fatty acid - ketone in blood - CO2+H2O

Carb - ketone in mitochondria - CO2+H2O

Fat or carb, it gets converted into ketones as it is being burned.

You should look into having a better understanding of the Krebs
cycle (also known as the TCA or citric acid cycle). I don't have
the time or desire to explain it here, but there's plenty of good
sites on line that will.



--
Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
-Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

Doug Freyburger wrote:

RRzVRR wrote:

Doug Freyburger wrote:


It's interesting that when you get into the chemistry, ketones
are the only fuel. Both fat and glucose get converted to ketones
before getting burned.

That's incorrect. The body uses both FFA and glucose without
going through ketone production.

A good read on Fatty Acid Oxidation:
http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...oxidation.html


No it doesn't. My only guess is that you're thinking that
acetyl CoA is the same as ketones.

That diagram clearly shows fatty acids being converted into a
ketone for consumption in the Krebs cycle.

Fat - fatty acid - ketone in blood - CO2+H2O

Carb - ketone in mitochondria - CO2+H2O

Fat or carb, it gets converted into ketones as it is being burned.

You should look into having a better understanding of the Krebs
cycle (also known as the TCA or citric acid cycle). I don't have
the time or desire to explain it here, but there's plenty of good
sites on line that will.



--
Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
-Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm