If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Dally wrote in
: Lictor wrote: "Dally" wrote in message ... I strongly disagree with your first sentence. In my experience, most people can't tell you a wild guess at the macronutrient ratio of what they eat within 20%. And they have NO IDEA how many calories they eat or even how many calories they OUGHT to eat. Maybe that's different in the USA, I was taught basic dietetic notions like that at school, when I was 12... The fact remain that most people do have *some* notion of what eating right is. You went to school in France? I won't presume to know what French schoolchildren are taught, but I assure you that I grew up with no similar body of knowledge, and based on conversations I have with British, Australian and other North American people I would be highly suspect that only the U.S. got rotten nutritional educations. Have you looked at some of the theories on obesity that were the norm a few centuries ago? Some *doctors* believed obesity was caused by water and salt, others that it was glandular... I mean, if you look at some of the diets back then, some are really scary-funny... snip funny theories Even knowing that eating too much will make you fat is a knowledge that was *not* available to most people centuries ago. You're joking, I hope. Anyone who has ever fattened an animal for slaughter (and that would be humans for the past 10,000 years) knows about this. Even if you do believe the average level of knowledge is that low, which I highly doubt, it's still not lower than it was before. I think you're wrong, because I think people got side-tracked with wrong information. The USDA food pyramid, for example, is laughably wrong. And before that we had the "four food groups" - also wrong. My grandmother knew more about dieting than anyone else I know and she cited her eating regimen that her mother taught her. She said to eat my vegetables, eat a balanced diet, that fish was good for my brain and it was good to have a drink now and then. Science has been catching up with my Grandma my whole life. Dally I don't think the food pyramid is laughably wrong, just difficult to follow and few people do. They are amending it, though. Just my opinion, but I think overconsumtion of surgar is the overwhelming culprit in obestity. That includes all the high fructose crap we often aren't even aware that we're consuming. -- --------------- "Teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test."—George W Bush, Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001 |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
"Lictor" wrote in
: "Dally" wrote in message ... You went to school in France? Yes, I'm French. I won't presume to know what French schoolchildren are taught, but I assure you that I grew up with no similar body of knowledge, and based on conversations I have with British, Australian and other North American people I would be highly suspect that only the U.S. got rotten nutritional educations. That's weird. I'm not claiming we got the latest breakthrough in nutrition, but we did get *several* lessons on basic stuff. Twice in junior high school, at the first year and last year (same year as sexual education), and then again during high school as part of the scientific options (this one getting more serious with the whole metabolism and ATP cycle). All part of the biology lessons. In junior high school, pretty everyone learnt basic stuff like the different macro-nutriments, our equivalent of your FDA food pyramid (421 version here - 4 carbs for 2 proteins for 1 fat), how calories work... My gf is a pure non-scientist, yet she remembers the basic pretty well, so it's not just only me And this was fifteen years ago. Since then, they have put more emphasis on this. I will have to ask my younger sister, but I'm pretty sure she already received some basic lessons even in primary school. Moreover, they also get extra-curricular information. My mother works at a nursery school, and *all* similar schooles have a yearly event when kids are taught about the various tastes (what are the basic tastes, how various food tastes, making them try various food and spices...), which is actually a pretty good idea I think. Not to mention that all the meals are checked by a dietitian (that's a legal obligation), so the kids at least know how a balanced meal is supposed to look. While looking at my 11 y.o. sister magazines, I also noticed quite a lot (too much IMHO) information on diets. She's very aware that eating too much causes obesity, that obesity can kill you, that fat is bad and stuff like that. Just like she knows smoking kills you. I have been reminded plenty enough of all that from her! Even knowing that eating too much will make you fat is a knowledge that was *not* available to most people centuries ago. You're joking, I hope. Anyone who has ever fattened an animal for slaughter (and that would be humans for the past 10,000 years) knows about this. Obviously, the doctors back then didn't know about that... But the general populace was probably wiser... However, do you really think that nowadays people do not even have that *basic* knowledge? I mean, when you talk to obese people, they are well aware that they are not eating like they should, that they should exercise and go on a diet and stuff like that. It's only that they somehow don't manage to *do* it. At least, that's my experience here... If it's not yours, then something is awfully wrong in the USA... I mean, even wronger than it looks... I think you're wrong, because I think people got side-tracked with wrong information. I didn't say otherwise I did say people have access to a bunch of information, from their education to the magazines. I didn't say it was the correct one. The problem is that each generation of doctor think he has the Truth. The doctors with the funny water theory are not different from the doctors who prescribed fasting in the fifties, and the ones who prescribed the proteidic diet a few decades ago (some still do actually). But my point is that people seemed to do better with *no* information at all. I mean, two centuries ago, most people did not know how to read or count, I doubt they were counting calories. Contrary to what some people think, they also had plenty enough to eat to become obese - back then, the average French ate more than 1.5kg of bread a day, you could certainly get any westerner fat with similar food. *Some* people were poor, but not that poor. If people managed to do fine with no special knowledge, and without specific diets (because I doubt most people went to see a doctor to get one), maybe we're going the wrong way by trying to solve the problem with stuffing people with medical information... My grandmother knew more about dieting than anyone else I know and she cited her eating regimen that her mother taught her. That's what I call "cultural eating". All cultures have developped a set of recipes that form their culinary culture. And if you look at them, you realize most of them are very clever. A lot aim to lower the glycemic index (which is important if you're hungry). The Indians managed to create a viable vegetarian diet, without any "scientific" knowledge, which is quite a feat. Many managed to find a quite perfect equilibrium between the different fat sources... If you look at the USA (and Europe to a lesser extent), both the food industry and the dietitians have worked at destroying or perverting all existing cultural eating during the past century... She said to eat my vegetables, eat a balanced diet, that fish was good for my brain and it was good to have a drink now and then. Yes, but the grandma of the futur will follow the advice of her doctor or read women magazines... That's exactly what the majority of the people are doing... Including the obese ones (or at least, they're trying and repetitively failing)... We had "Health" once a month in place of "Gym" but it was largely a joke and had every conceivable topic of health in 50 minutes a month! -- --------------- "Teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test."—George W Bush, Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001 |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
"Chris Braun" wrote in message
... Most diets work for a large number of people if they follow them carefully, hence there's significant anecdotal evidence that every popular diet works. Probably most people could take any of the recommended eating plans in the blood type diet book, follow it, and lose weight. That's actually the problem. *All* diets will lead to weight loss. Even the most stupid ones. Even the all-cookies diet. Hence, the ability to make people lose weight is not a good evaluation of a diet quality. The problem is with maintaining weight loss long term. And I mean really long term (like, 5 years), not at the 1-2 years horizon where "long term" evaluation is often done. When evaluations are performed long term, it doesn't look good for most diets (including surgery) actually. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
"Chris Braun" wrote in message
... Most diets work for a large number of people if they follow them carefully, hence there's significant anecdotal evidence that every popular diet works. Probably most people could take any of the recommended eating plans in the blood type diet book, follow it, and lose weight. That's actually the problem. *All* diets will lead to weight loss. Even the most stupid ones. Even the all-cookies diet. Hence, the ability to make people lose weight is not a good evaluation of a diet quality. The problem is with maintaining weight loss long term. And I mean really long term (like, 5 years), not at the 1-2 years horizon where "long term" evaluation is often done. When evaluations are performed long term, it doesn't look good for most diets (including surgery) actually. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Oh, brother (I roll my eyes) | Eva Whitley | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 206 | May 23rd, 2004 04:45 PM |
questions about D'Amato's "blood type diet" | Ted Shoemaker | General Discussion | 13 | March 5th, 2004 07:32 PM |
anyone have info on | Anglea Woollcombe | Weightwatchers | 45 | January 8th, 2004 02:19 PM |
Off Blood Pressure Meds | Jenny | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 2 | December 26th, 2003 12:51 PM |