Funny!

Dally wrote:
Kirk Is wrote:
That's essentially my point. But according to her majesty, newbies like me
have no chance of making such calculated decisions, so we need to use half
and half in our coffee instead of skim milk, in order to lose weight.

Of course you get to choose what calories go in your mouth. But part of
what Queenie does (and I do) is bring to your attention that these ARE
choices and those choices have consequences and you have the option of
choosing differently.

OK, fair enough.

A choice like this comes down to: is a decision for indulgence a slippery
path, showing a lack of moral fiber and likely to lead to dietary wreck
and ruin, or is it a decision that can relieve some of the feelings of
missing out, and thus create a more sustainable program?

So far, for me, I think I have some evidence for the latter. But if I
wasn't carefully observing my behavior and the results, I could see how it
would be a dangerous road. And maybe there is some call for shouting
newbies away from it.

This is a continuous and important process if you're going to go from
fat to slender. If you're going to change you have to change. Not
being open to change is a huge warning flag when someone comes here
seeking help in losing weight.

Ok, I can appreciate that. But I have made significant changes, and I'm
giving them time to work before making additional changes on top of that.

--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY: http://kisrael.com/mortal
"Anyone who says life is short really isn't paying attention." --March 4 2001

"Dally" wrote in message
...
Kirk Is wrote:
Willow Herself wrote:

I didn't give up my cheetos until long after I made goal. 1 serving (29
pieces) every night. about 200 calories.. .I still lost 70 lbs in 9
months... I've now been maintaining for almost 3 years. Shouldn't
everyone get to chose where they cut and where they won't?

That's essentially my point. But according to her majesty, newbies like
me
have no chance of making such calculated decisions, so we need to use
half
and half in our coffee instead of skim milk, in order to lose weight.

Of course you get to choose what calories go in your mouth. But part of
what Queenie does (and I do) is bring to your attention that these ARE
choices and those choices have consequences and you have the option of
choosing differently.

This is a continuous and important process if you're going to go from fat
to slender. If you're going to change you have to change. Not being open
to change is a huge warning flag when someone comes here seeking help in
losing weight.

Dally

I hate to take his side, but being open to change doesn't mean being ready
to sacrifice everything. The idea of "choice" itself means at least 2
option, if you profess, as the Queen has done, that only one option is the
"right one" where's the choice?

You can chose to change things drastically, and lose weight faster and more
regularly. Or you can just change a little at a time, and see your weight
slowly dribble down. That's not how I would do it, I don't have that kind of
patience, but... it's a "choice".

His one coffee a day isn't going to compromise his weight loss. Now if you
put it together with not really being committed to exercise, to being mostly
on program (whichever the program is) and all around not really being
serious about it, that's another story.. but again.. it's a choice..
Will~

"Ignoramus12948" wrote in message
...
I am not taking sides here, but I want to make a few remarks.

One can lose weight eating just about anything, if the overall
quantity remains small enough.

Numerous people find that they can "eat healthy" and remain fat,
because they eat too much of "healthy" food.

We do not quite know just what "healthy food" means. What we do know,
with a modest degree of certainty, is that being fat is unhealthy.

The main point of "eat no junk food" restrictions, which I personally
follow, is that it makes dieting easier (supposedly), not that it
makes us closer to the Holy Spirit or whatever.

So, if eating some food does not make dieting any more difficult, I
cannot see why it should not be eaten. I suspect -- though I never
tried -- that eating "junk food", ice cream, cake etc, would make my
dieting more difficult, so I choose not to eat that.


i


Very well said!
Will~

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message
.. .
Willow Herself wrote:

wrote:

I killfiled Queen of Cans and Jars ages ago, because she was so
negative and nasty.

I posted a question about tattoos in another group, and who should
respond but......?

Killfiled her there, too. :-)

( She can be huh... abrupt, but she also pretty darn intelligent...
when
she sets her mind to it she does bring some very interesting point to
conversations..

Thank you, Willow.

You should open your mind.... you might be surprised to discover that
she's
the one saying the one thing that will help you when you really need it..

Oddly enough, I'm the only person who's responded to his post in rab.
And I've given exactly the answer any of the other regulars there would
give. But, you know, since it's coming from me it must be wrong!

By the way, who's being negative and nasty just now?

Self-righteous types like Mitch always think their negativity is
justified. They cling to it like a safety blanket.



My father in law, who's gone now, always said "It doesn't take all kinds to
make a world, we just have all kinds"

Wise man there...
Will~

Willow Herself wrote:
I hate to take his side,

:-P I think my side is pretty reasonable! ;-)

You can chose to change things drastically, and lose weight faster and more
regularly. Or you can just change a little at a time, and see your weight
slowly dribble down. That's not how I would do it, I don't have that kind of
patience, but... it's a "choice".

?? Lately I've been at the 1-1.5 lb/week mark, which I've heard is a good
pace to sustain.

His one coffee a day isn't going to compromise his weight loss. Now if you
put it together with not really being committed to exercise,

!!! Damn it, the whole point was I was VERY commited to exercise: Hackers
Diet recommends a specific regimine that appealed to me, and I've put that
into pracice, missing maybe 2 days out of the 5 weeks I've been on it.

I was skeptical about making sufficient time for enough walking to make a
difference.

to being mostly
on program (whichever the program is)

Hacker's Diet, recommded by some fellow geeks.

and all around not really being
serious about it, that's another story.. but again.. it's a choice..

If you're referring to me, I'd say I'm pretty serious about it... serious
enough about Hacker's Diet to resist tinkering with it 'til I see that
it's no longer working for me, and serious enough to avoid making changes
that I think will make me miserable and likely to fall off the wagon in
the long run.

--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY: http://kisrael.com/mortal
In short, assume that any time it appears that evolution is working in
reverse, it is probably an illusion. --Allen Barra (on MLB pitchers, more..)

I was talking in general... loosen up buddy.. I don't know what you're
actually doing, so I'm not gonna put judgement on that. Frankly, I've got
enough worrying about my own lifestyle.. don't really care about other's...

Will~

"Kirk Is" wrote in message
...
Willow Herself wrote:
I hate to take his side,

:-P I think my side is pretty reasonable! ;-)

You can chose to change things drastically, and lose weight faster and
more
regularly. Or you can just change a little at a time, and see your weight
slowly dribble down. That's not how I would do it, I don't have that kind
of
patience, but... it's a "choice".

?? Lately I've been at the 1-1.5 lb/week mark, which I've heard is a good
pace to sustain.

His one coffee a day isn't going to compromise his weight loss. Now if
you
put it together with not really being committed to exercise,

!!! Damn it, the whole point was I was VERY commited to exercise: Hackers
Diet recommends a specific regimine that appealed to me, and I've put that
into pracice, missing maybe 2 days out of the 5 weeks I've been on it.

I was skeptical about making sufficient time for enough walking to make a
difference.

to being mostly
on program (whichever the program is)

Hacker's Diet, recommded by some fellow geeks.

and all around not really being
serious about it, that's another story.. but again.. it's a choice..

If you're referring to me, I'd say I'm pretty serious about it... serious
enough about Hacker's Diet to resist tinkering with it 'til I see that
it's no longer working for me, and serious enough to avoid making changes
that I think will make me miserable and likely to fall off the wagon in
the long run.

--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY:
http://kisrael.com/mortal
In short, assume that any time it appears that evolution is working in
reverse, it is probably an illusion. --Allen Barra (on MLB pitchers,
more..)

Willow Herself wrote:
I was talking in general... loosen up buddy.. I don't know what you're
actually doing, so I'm not gonna put judgement on that. Frankly, I've got
enough worrying about my own lifestyle.. don't really care about other's...

heh, ok, sorry. feeling a little thin skinned.

--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY: http://kisrael.com/mortal
"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for
that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." --Drew Carey

Willow Herself wrote:

"Dally" wrote in message
...

Of course you get to choose what calories go in your mouth. But part of
what Queenie does (and I do) is bring to your attention that these ARE
choices and those choices have consequences and you have the option of
choosing differently.

This is a continuous and important process if you're going to go from fat
to slender. If you're going to change you have to change. Not being open
to change is a huge warning flag when someone comes here seeking help in
losing weight.

I hate to take his side, but being open to change doesn't mean being ready
to sacrifice everything.

I don't disagree with you, and I'm not really weighing in on some
judgment about coffee. FWIW, I have a cup of coffee with splenda and a
shot-glass-measure of half and half every morning. (If I have more
coffee I drink it black.)

But just because someone isn't ready to sacrifice everything doesn't
mean the subject of gratuitous calories is inappropriate. Put it this
way: just because they aren't ready to take the advice doesn't mean it's
bad advice.

The idea of "choice" itself means at least 2
option, if you profess, as the Queen has done, that only one option is the
"right one" where's the choice?

An insight I recently had regarding my own judgmentalism is that I have
an opinion on everything people OUGHT to do, but I don't put any weight
on that opinion nor expect them to put much (if any) weight on that
opinion. They'll do what they think is best from where they stand and
that's what I expect will happen and will respect them as grown-up
individuals running their own life. But that doesn't mean I don't have
an opinion on what I think they ought to do, because I do. It's just
the way I'm wired.

Personally, I learn and grow by hearing a variety of voices. It's one
reason I like the internet. (Before the internet all the imaginary
voices in my head telling me what to do all sounded exactly like my
mother.) I figure I have something valuable to add to the mix so I add
it. Someone else will add what they have to add. It's all good.

You can chose to change things drastically, and lose weight faster and more
regularly. Or you can just change a little at a time, and see your weight
slowly dribble down. That's not how I would do it, I don't have that kind of
patience, but... it's a "choice".

There's another element of this... at some point you get stalled and
then it's time to look at what the next step was. Perhaps you could
handle 100 calories of saturated fat when your calorie budget was 1800
calories a day. But when it's down to 1500 (because you've lost 80
pounds) then you've got to take a fresh look at it.

So the same message will be of different value to the same person at
different times in their weight loss journey.

In short, just because it isn't useful to someone when they hear it for
the first time doesn't mean it isn't worth pointing out.

Dally

"Dally" wrote in message
...
Willow Herself wrote:

"Dally" wrote in message
...

Of course you get to choose what calories go in your mouth. But part of
what Queenie does (and I do) is bring to your attention that these ARE
choices and those choices have consequences and you have the option of
choosing differently.

This is a continuous and important process if you're going to go from fat
to slender. If you're going to change you have to change. Not being
open to change is a huge warning flag when someone comes here seeking
help in losing weight.

I hate to take his side, but being open to change doesn't mean being
ready to sacrifice everything.

I don't disagree with you, and I'm not really weighing in on some judgment
about coffee. FWIW, I have a cup of coffee with splenda and a
shot-glass-measure of half and half every morning. (If I have more coffee
I drink it black.)

Mmmmmmmmm coffeee

But just because someone isn't ready to sacrifice everything doesn't mean
the subject of gratuitous calories is inappropriate. Put it this way:
just because they aren't ready to take the advice doesn't mean it's bad
advice.

Good point, and I agree..

The idea of "choice" itself means at least 2 option, if you profess, as
the Queen has done, that only one option is the "right one" where's the
choice?

An insight I recently had regarding my own judgmentalism is that I have an
opinion on everything people OUGHT to do, but I don't put any weight on
that opinion nor expect them to put much (if any) weight on that opinion.
They'll do what they think is best from where they stand and that's what I
expect will happen and will respect them as grown-up individuals running
their own life. But that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on what I
think they ought to do, because I do. It's just the way I'm wired.

I'm like that too... and it gets me in troubles all the time *grin*.

Online communication doesn't reflect everything "communication should" you
have tone of voice, gesture posture etc. So sometimes I think it's easy to
feel "attacked" or judged when really you aren't..


Personally, I learn and grow by hearing a variety of voices. It's one
reason I like the internet. (Before the internet all the imaginary voices
in my head telling me what to do all sounded exactly like my mother.) I
figure I have something valuable to add to the mix so I add it. Someone
else will add what they have to add. It's all good.

Hehehe Who knows maybe you're Mom had it all right ! ;op

But yeah that's what I get out of the group also. That's why I do appreciate
everybody (minus the dumb trolls) because they all have something to bring.
Even when I disagree with someone I learn... cool stuff..


You can chose to change things drastically, and lose weight faster and
more regularly. Or you can just change a little at a time, and see your
weight slowly dribble down. That's not how I would do it, I don't have
that kind of patience, but... it's a "choice".

There's another element of this... at some point you get stalled and then
it's time to look at what the next step was. Perhaps you could handle 100
calories of saturated fat when your calorie budget was 1800 calories a
day. But when it's down to 1500 (because you've lost 80 pounds) then
you've got to take a fresh look at it.

Very true..

So the same message will be of different value to the same person at
different times in their weight loss journey.

In short, just because it isn't useful to someone when they hear it for
the first time doesn't mean it isn't worth pointing out.

Dally

True, as I said though.. being online.. it's all in how you point it out....
or how you receive it..
Will~

Dally wrote:
I don't disagree with you, and I'm not really weighing in on some
judgment about coffee. FWIW, I have a cup of coffee with splenda and a
shot-glass-measure of half and half every morning. (If I have more
coffee I drink it black.)

For some reason I'm intuitively skittish about splenda and other artifical
sweeteners. I recognize that this might not be a 100% rational bias, and
in general I have disdain for knee-jerk anti-food-technology reactions,
but still. With stuff like margarine vs butter and other issues (including
half-remembered ideas like the sweetness provoking an insulin response but
not having the blood sugar to actually cope with) sometimes it seems like
a certain conservaism might be a healthy idea.

There's another element of this... at some point you get stalled and
then it's time to look at what the next step was. Perhaps you could
handle 100 calories of saturated fat when your calorie budget was 1800
calories a day. But when it's down to 1500 (because you've lost 80
pounds) then you've got to take a fresh look at it.

A good point, and if I have a significant slowdown in weight loss (below
the 1-2 lbs / week I'm aiming for now) I should reconsider this kind of
option.

I was running some #s on line today, http://calorielab.com/ to get my RMR,
or at least a rough estimate (assuming 12 calories / lb ) 2500+ for where
I am now, 2160 at where I'd like to be. If I stick to my current calorie
goals it seems like I should be ok throughout, but I should be willing to
be flexible if and when things stall out.

--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY: http://kisrael.com/mortal
Cultivate the Switzerland of your soul and remain delightfully detached.
--Janeane Garofalo