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#21
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau 'the banana-boy'
rambled on about " Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ... Where there it is! Running marathons is nutty behavior. Keep on trollin', oh-great-one... Thanks! I intend to. Ha, ... Hah, Ha! |
#22
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
"jmk" wrote in message ... On 12/8/2003 2:20 PM, Marcio Watanabe wrote: "Robert" wrote: Tell that to the marathon guy who died of a heart attack at 42 years of age. This is like giving an example of a smoker who live till age 100 to show that smoking is not bad for your health. Lame. In what way are these similar cases? Jim Fixx was 52 when he died in 1984. He had a family history of heart disease. His father had heart attack at age 35 and died of a heart attack at age 43. Jim Fixx's lifestyle most likely added years to his life. The problem is he probably thought as most be here seem to be saying is that "because" a person runs he has taken care of the single most important risk factor. In the case of the hypothetical smoker, how long *would he have lived* if he hadn't smoked? That's true but again a paradox comes to play. How many people suffer heart attacks after running. It can precipitate the very thing one is avoiding. A friend of mine had one after running and survived it. His doctor told him he was lucky he was a runner as it helped him survive it. ???????? It really gets back to my main point in that there are many risk factors that you have to look at if you are really interested in doing all you can do to minimize risks. One of those is not over doing it in exercise. Exercise helps in stroke volume, collateral circulation, insulin receptors and HDL etc. The risk factors associated with heart disease are more comprehensive than that. Exercise helps avoiding some heart attacks but not all and it helps in all cases in terms of survival rates because of collateral circulation. |
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
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#24
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
Robert wrote:
In what way are these similar cases? Jim Fixx was 52 when he died in 1984. He had a family history of heart disease. His father had heart attack at age 35 and died of a heart attack at age 43. Jim Fixx's lifestyle most likely added years to his life. The problem is he probably thought as most be here seem to be saying is that "because" a person runs he has taken care of the single most important risk factor. In most cases it is a fact! In the case of the hypothetical smoker, how long *would he have lived* if he hadn't smoked? That's true but again a paradox comes to play. How many people suffer heart attacks after running. It can precipitate the very thing one is avoiding. Man what a stretch. You just love pointing at the .0001 percentile to prove some point. A friend of mine had one after running and survived it. His doctor told him he was lucky he was a runner as it helped him survive it. Then he like Jim Fixx was dumb, very dumb. Before any exercise program one should have a physical. Even the healthy exercising person should have a yearly physical. Anyone, Jim Fixx or your friend that assumed exercise removed the need to undergo a physical is a moron. Jim Fixx on this point was not bright either. Physicals are for all people. If we assume a yearly physical where history plus blood work are taken, it will then severely cut the odds. It really gets back to my main point in that there are many risk factors that you have to look at if you are really interested in doing all you can do to minimize risks. One of those is not over doing it in exercise. Exercise helps in stroke volume, collateral circulation, insulin receptors and HDL etc. The risk factors associated with heart disease are more comprehensive than that. Exercise helps avoiding some heart attacks but not all and it helps in all cases in terms of survival rates because of collateral circulation. What ever happened to common sense in this equation? Have a physical to understand your risk factors. if you paranoid havbe a stress test. If the risk factors are nonexistent or few, then exercise to prevent any new ones. By the way exercise prevents more than heart attacks. -- Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" |
#25
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
"John 'the Man'" wrote in message ... Once upon a time, our fellow Ignoramus25226 rambled on about " Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ... The best life extension strategy seems to be mediocrity. The correct word is moderation. Mediocrity means a middle state and also means moderation. So Ignoramus is perfectly correct. Just thought that you might want to know. Just thought that you might want to know. |
#26
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
"Doug Freese" wrote in Man what a stretch. You just love pointing at the .0001 percentile to prove some point. It is not a stretch my friend as you know nothing of what can precipitate a heart attack. In the people who don't excercise a simple dump in the toilet can cause one. You see many people having heart attacks after excercise and that is not a stretch. A friend of mine had one after running and survived it. His doctor told him he was lucky he was a runner as it helped him survive it. Then he like Jim Fixx was dumb, very dumb. Before any exercise program one should have a physical. Even the healthy exercising person should have a yearly physical. Having a physical does not prevent a heart attack and I don't know who told you that. You can have a tread mill test one day and have a heart attack the next and it has happened. It is not a sensitive indicator. People will over exert themselves as in my buddies case where he was running with some of his partners. He played the macho role of not wanting to slow down. You are trying to deny any role of excercise in precipitating a heart attack. Anyone, Jim Fixx or your friend that assumed exercise removed the need to undergo a physical is a moron. Jim Fixx on this point was not bright either. Physicals are for all people. You are not involved with health care as you place why too much reliance on a physical. If we assume a yearly physical where history plus blood work are taken, it will then severely cut the odds. I knew a surgeon who was under stress because of a law suit decided to go out jogging and he never came back alive. Another friend of mine got a heart attack right after playing basketball. A physical or blood tests can only tell you if you are at risk in a general sense but anything more specific like it an angiogram requires money and therefore people will and do get heart attacks after physicals and blood work. What ever happened to common sense in this equation? Have a physical to understand your risk factors. if you paranoid havbe a stress test. If the risk factors are nonexistent or few, then exercise to prevent any new ones. By the way exercise prevents more than heart attacks. I think you lack common sense if you come out of a doctors office over confident that you will not get a heart attack after having a physical and stress test. If you don't believe me then ask a cardiologist. I am not paranoid you need to understand the limitations of those things. Any doctor you see knows this and will always warn you to take it slow and in moderaton. He will not say, yeah go all out and really give it your all because I gave you a stress test. People who are encouraged to exercise are those with high cholesterols, high blood pressure, diabetics and they all come out of the doctors office and told to do so and their odds are not cut as you imply. Their disease doesn't just go away because they visit a doctor. They are also in a high risk group for heart disease so you lost me with that paranoia talk. |
#27
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
On 12/8/2003 4:22 PM, Robert wrote: "jmk" wrote in message ... On 12/8/2003 2:20 PM, Marcio Watanabe wrote: "Robert" wrote: Tell that to the marathon guy who died of a heart attack at 42 years of age. This is like giving an example of a smoker who live till age 100 to show that smoking is not bad for your health. Lame. In what way are these similar cases? Jim Fixx was 52 when he died in 1984. He had a family history of heart disease. His father had heart attack at age 35 and died of a heart attack at age 43. Jim Fixx's lifestyle most likely added years to his life. The problem is he probably thought as most be here seem to be saying is that "because" a person runs he has taken care of the single most important risk factor. What makes you say that? Do you have any references supporting your statement? -- jmk in NC |
#28
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
On 12/8/2003 4:34 PM, Ignoramus25226 wrote: In article , Robert wrote: That's true but again a paradox comes to play. How many people suffer heart attacks after running. It can precipitate the very thing one is avoiding. A friend of mine had one after running and survived it. His doctor told him he was lucky he was a runner as it helped him survive it. ???????? The best life extension strategy seems to be mediocrity. No not be too fat, too sedentary, too big muscled, to nor run too fast too long etc. Just be a well exercised, well eating, flexible, all around healthy and balanced person instead of trying to set records. Well, to some extent you may be correct -- overdoing it may be almost as bad as underdoing it. OTOH, "Figures out of the U.S. suggest that four or five people die every year running marathons. That’s out of the 450,000 who ran marathons in 2002." (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/running/death.html). How many people died of heart attacks in 2002 while shovelling their driveways? I actually know of one personally :-(. -- jmk in NC |
#29
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
On 12/9/2003 8:47 AM, Ignoramus6480 wrote: I bet people shovel their driveways more often than marathoners run marathons... Just a guess. Anyway, obviously, the ones who die shoveling their driveways are sedentary people and my mediocrity principle states that one should not be too sedentary. Maybe. Maybe not. I don't shovel the driveway. We don't typically get snow here (not enough to shovel). In fact, large parts of the country don't get snow :-) -- jmk in NC |
#30
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Exercise, Not Diet, May be Best Defense Against Heart Disease
On 12/9/2003 9:21 AM, Ignoramus6480 wrote:
Marathoners are genetically gifted people who exercise. Not necessarily. Maybe the top few finishers but what about the several hundred/thousand people behind them? Just saying that marathoners die less often from marathons than sedentary people die from driveway shoveling, does not make one way of life superior to the other. It is just "food for thought". Actually, what I was saying is that it is no fair to compare people who run marathons (Jim Fixx dies at age 52 therefore running is bad) with smokers (someone who smokes lives to be 100 therefore smoking is good). I provided additional information about Jim Fixx's family history of heart disease and stated that his running may have increased his life span. I also never said that sedendary people died from driveway shovelling. You said that the people who died of heart attacks when shoveling were sedentary. You made a lot of assumptions about the lifestyles of the people involved. Excercise, nutrition and family history all play important roles in our health. -- jmk in NC |
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