2nd week on Core - weight gain - need to figure out what to do now...

Well, I was *hoping* that Core would help me continue on the road to
weight loss after not being able to do so on Atkins.

It seems like a real healthy program. As I mentioned in my previous
note, where I summed up the different diets I've been on over the years,
it seems like sensible, low-glycemic with reality checks built in to
prevent abuse.

Week one I lost 1 kg (2.2 lb) which was a small loss for somebody at my
weight (119.5 kg to start = 263 lb), but I found the Core eating list
easy to abide by and continued for a 2nd week.

This morning, the end of week 2, I weighed in and found my weight had
creeped up to 119.0 kg, a weekly gain of 0.5 kg (1.1 lb). This was not a
daily fluctuation, because I'd been sneaking peeks all week and saw my
weight gradually creep up.

I think I know what the problem is, but unfortunately my thinking leads
me to conclude that Core doesn't provide enough weight-loss guidance for
me (while I can imagine it working better for others).

The problems, as I see them, are (1) some items on the Core list itself
and (2) the lack of specific limits.

In other words, everything that makes Core enticing to begin with.

Some examples:

(1) While potatoes, whole grain pasta and brown rice are limited to one
serving a day, other starchy and even rather high caloric vegetables and
fruits are not.

What does this mean for me? Well, I like broccoli. But I love corn. I
like green peppers. But I found I really like red kidney beans.

Since all of these vegetables and legumes are on equal Core footing
(unless I am misunderstanding how Core works), and since none of them
seem to particularly trigger hunger cravings in me, I've been eating the
vegies and legumes I love more and more and the lower calorie vegies
like broccoli, spinach, green beans and green pepper less and less. Corn
and legumes are just more satisfying to me.

But they are relatively much higher calorie too.

(2) Soba (buckwheat noodles and buckwheat flour) are on the Core list.
So if I was hungry in the afternoon I might have "zaru soba" from the
convenience store. These are just plain, cold buckwheat noodles. Almost
zero fat. But at 370 calories a serving it's higher calorie than, say,
having an apple instead. But I find the noodles more of a comfort food.
I don't overeat them. And just buy single servings. So I am definitely
just eating to "satisfaction" and not stuffing myself. But things like
that add up throughout the day.

(3) This is probably the worst offender, calorie wise - meat and
poultry. Just looking at the Core list, beef, chicken and fish are on
the same footing, as long as you select the lean cuts of meat with no
visible fat.

I like fish and chicken, but found myself eating more meat than fish at
dinner. I was always scrupulous about selecting cuts with no marbling or
extra fat, but even so meat has at least twice the calories of fish, on
average.

All these things have added up, obviously, to prevent me from losing
weight. And I didn't even mention bananas this time, because I avoided
them this week. But given a choice, I would much rather eat a banana
than an apple.

So I find myself here Friday morning wondering what to do now...

I see basically two choices (don't mention exercise - that is needed, I
know, but I want my eating choices alone to promote weight loss, not
hold me back) as far as dieting goes:

1. Try to create my own Core list, eliminating all the foods I like from
the current list. That is overstating it, I know.

It might be possible to modify the Core list in certain places only. For
example, I might decide that WW is ridiculous to include beef in Core
and just remove it, forcing me to eat mostly chicken and fish and use
flexpoints if I want beef. Maybe a dozen modifications like that would
help...

2. Go back to trying to count calories, despite my repeated lack of
success in doing this since going off my 700 day low-cal successful diet
in 2000.

Both are hard choices. I don't see any advantage in trying to journal
and count WW points over just counting calories. Both seem equivalent to me.

How are others doing on Core? Does anybody else experience the same
problems I do?

doug

"Doug Lerner" wrote in message
...
Well, I was *hoping* that Core would help me continue on the road to
weight loss after not being able to do so on Atkins.

It seems like a real healthy program. As I mentioned in my previous
note, where I summed up the different diets I've been on over the years,
it seems like sensible, low-glycemic with reality checks built in to
prevent abuse.

Week one I lost 1 kg (2.2 lb) which was a small loss for somebody at my
weight (119.5 kg to start = 263 lb), but I found the Core eating list
easy to abide by and continued for a 2nd week.

This morning, the end of week 2, I weighed in and found my weight had
creeped up to 119.0 kg, a weekly gain of 0.5 kg (1.1 lb). This was not a
daily fluctuation, because I'd been sneaking peeks all week and saw my
weight gradually creep up.

Sorry to hear about this loss but I am sure you will figure out how to fix
this next week.

I think I know what the problem is, but unfortunately my thinking leads
me to conclude that Core doesn't provide enough weight-loss guidance for
me (while I can imagine it working better for others).

I think figuring out Core is a major learning process and I can't imagine
trying to figure it out all by yourself. You are fortunate to have this
group to ask questions.

The problems, as I see them, are (1) some items on the Core list itself
and (2) the lack of specific limits.

In other words, everything that makes Core enticing to begin with.

Some examples:

(1) While potatoes, whole grain pasta and brown rice are limited to one
serving a day, other starchy and even rather high caloric vegetables and
fruits are not.

What does this mean for me? Well, I like broccoli. But I love corn. I
like green peppers. But I found I really like red kidney beans.

Since all of these vegetables and legumes are on equal Core footing
(unless I am misunderstanding how Core works), and since none of them
seem to particularly trigger hunger cravings in me, I've been eating the
vegies and legumes I love more and more and the lower calorie vegies
like broccoli, spinach, green beans and green pepper less and less. Corn
and legumes are just more satisfying to me.

But they are relatively much higher calorie too.

(2) Soba (buckwheat noodles and buckwheat flour) are on the Core list.
So if I was hungry in the afternoon I might have "zaru soba" from the
convenience store. These are just plain, cold buckwheat noodles. Almost
zero fat. But at 370 calories a serving it's higher calorie than, say,
having an apple instead. But I find the noodles more of a comfort food.
I don't overeat them. And just buy single servings. So I am definitely
just eating to "satisfaction" and not stuffing myself. But things like
that add up throughout the day.

(3) This is probably the worst offender, calorie wise - meat and
poultry. Just looking at the Core list, beef, chicken and fish are on
the same footing, as long as you select the lean cuts of meat with no
visible fat.

I like fish and chicken, but found myself eating more meat than fish at
dinner. I was always scrupulous about selecting cuts with no marbling or
extra fat, but even so meat has at least twice the calories of fish, on
average.

All these things have added up, obviously, to prevent me from losing
weight. And I didn't even mention bananas this time, because I avoided
them this week. But given a choice, I would much rather eat a banana
than an apple.

So I find myself here Friday morning wondering what to do now...

I see basically two choices (don't mention exercise - that is needed, I
know, but I want my eating choices alone to promote weight loss, not
hold me back) as far as dieting goes:

1. Try to create my own Core list, eliminating all the foods I like from
the current list. That is overstating it, I know.

It might be possible to modify the Core list in certain places only. For
example, I might decide that WW is ridiculous to include beef in Core
and just remove it, forcing me to eat mostly chicken and fish and use
flexpoints if I want beef. Maybe a dozen modifications like that would
help...

This is certainly one way to limit the higher calorie items that you seem to
be enjoying this past week. As long as you don't ADD something to the Core
list modifying it to suite your lifestyle is the best thing to do. Everyone
needs to identify their trigger foods and to make modifications accordingly.
Again, it is a learning process. I've been on Core since the end of August
and I am still figuring things out.

2. Go back to trying to count calories, despite my repeated lack of
success in doing this since going off my 700 day low-cal successful diet
in 2000.

Another idea would be to combine Core and Flex points into one program. Some
call this Flore. You eat core foods but weigh, measure and journal just like
Flex. You count your points and aim for your daily Target number of points.
You still get 35 WPA points like core. The idea here is that while you are
doing core you limit your food intake so that you learn what are reasonable
portion sizes. It also keeps you aware of the food that you eat from a
caloric perspective. Counting points will teach you how to make the most of
your points with as much food as possible. It will help limit the higher
calorie items that you mention above.

Both are hard choices. I don't see any advantage in trying to journal
and count WW points over just counting calories. Both seem equivalent to
me.

They are basically equivalent except that points take into consideration fat
and fiber in addition to calories. I'm not sure what your daily number of
calories for you weight should be. Once you figure that out aiming for that
daily target while still following Core would work too.

I personally find it easier to count to 24 instead of 1200 or 1500 but
either method would yield the same result. www.fitday.com offers an online
journal that would probably be perfect for what you wish to count.

How are others doing on Core? Does anybody else experience the same
problems I do?

"Fred" wrote in message
...


On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:50:31 GMT, "Laura"
wrote:


Another idea would be to combine Core and Flex points into one program.
Some
call this Flore.

Oh, afraid to call it "CEX!" (gd&r)

ROFLMAO!

SmartAss! Just couldn't resist could you? I have to admit it was
a good one!

--
Brenda
209/195/155

"Fred" wrote in message
...


On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:50:31 GMT, "Laura"
wrote:


Another idea would be to combine Core and Flex points into one program.
Some
call this Flore.

Oh, afraid to call it "CEX!" (gd&r)

Hi Doug,
The problems, as I see them, are (1) some items on the Core list itself
and (2) the lack of specific limits.

I'm not doing WW at the moment, basically because all of their programs
to date haven't overcome my specific problem: eating unhealthily.

On Flexpoints I ended up spending half my points on calorie-dense junk,
like low fat cakes or whatever (I'm a sugarholic, so being able to eat
what I like is a problem).

On the UK equivalent of Core, I'd do exactly what you're doing and eat
too much of the wrong things.

So the program I'm doing, which is similar to Core, is different in a
couple of key ways, for instance, most meals consist of no more than
about 5oz of meat or fish, and there is a lot of variety ie. Every day I
eat different meat or fish and different vegetables. If you eat a wide
spread of different foods, there is less danger of over-indulging on
one.

Most of the recipes involve mixing up lots of veggies, particularly
things like tomatoes, courgettes (zucchini) and onions, with lots of
casseroles, risottos and sauces.

I'm supposed to be eating about 1400 calories a day and everything less
than 5% fat, so although I'm not actually calorie counting at the moment
I have to be aware of the higher calorie fruits and veg (such as
bananas, legumes, corn, advocado etc) and eat smaller portions. As I'm
not eating any one thing in any quantity it's less of an issue however.

In the program I'm doing, you calorie count for a couple of weeks, just
to give you some idea where your calories are going and to see if you
aren't going over-the-top on something. You might find it useful to
track your Core intake for a week and calculate the calories and fat
grams *just* for that week*. Then, if you are really over-indulging in
kidney beans, you know to cut back your portion sizes. On the program
I'm on, the standard "serving" of legumes is equivalent to a 7oz can,
just to give you a guideline.

I think any diet program does need to be adapted to the individual. I've
decided on a slightly different program because this one does allow for
more flexibility - in the first 12 weeks, it's basically a self-help
course where you figure out where your problems are and start to tackle
them, and actual weight-loss isn't the sole point of it.

I think maybe that's where you need to start - first identify the
problems. If you lose weight during the learning process, great, but
ultimately it's not a diet program that's going to do it, it's you.

I have to say, and I don't mean to sound mean, but is there something in
the back of your mind that likes to bend the rules? You *know* that
kidney beans are not calorie-free and that if you eat tons, it's the
same as eating a bowl of potatoes. And yet you ate them using the
"excuse" that WW say they're Core and therefore you can.

You're obviously an intelligent person. Do you think perhaps this
thought-process needs confronting? It's like on my program, I'm allowed
oily fish. So what if I had mackerel every meal for a week? Would the
calories in mackerel miraculously disappear simply because "The Program"
didn't explicitly deny me mackerel three-times daily? Obviously, the
intention was for people on the program to have oily fish once a week,
as recommended by the health experts, but if I subvert that, I'm only
cheating myself and I'll get fatter.
--
Anna (in UK)
Start Weight: 174 lbs
Goal Weight: 146 lbs
Current Weight: 165.5 lbs

I'm not a Star Trek fan, but you must be. DH is a science fiction
fanatic - not as bad as he used to be mind you. Before we got
together he used to go to the yearly Science Fiction Convention. I
went once, but didn't enjoy it - for some reason he hasn't gone
since then - he has mentioned a few times that he should go again
though.

--
Brenda
209/195/155


"Fred" wrote in message
...
It was just too easy and resistance is futile, you will be Borg!

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:00:25 -0800, "Brenda Hammond"
wrote:

SmartAss! Just couldn't resist could you? I have to admit it was
a good one!

"Brenda Hammond" wrote in message
...
I'm not a Star Trek fan, but you must be. DH is a science fiction
fanatic - not as bad as he used to be mind you. Before we got
together he used to go to the yearly Science Fiction Convention. I
went once, but didn't enjoy it - for some reason he hasn't gone
since then - he has mentioned a few times that he should go again
though.

--
Brenda
209/195/155



My favourite Borg 'grin' is

"We are Borg of Dyslexia. Resistors are fertile. Prepare to have your a*s
laminated" ;-)

I wish I could claim it as mine, but it's not.

Cheers, helen s

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:13:29 +0900, Doug Lerner
wrote:

Well, I was *hoping* that Core would help me continue on the road to
weight loss after not being able to do so on Atkins.

It seems like a real healthy program. As I mentioned in my previous
note, where I summed up the different diets I've been on over the years,
it seems like sensible, low-glycemic with reality checks built in to
prevent abuse.

Week one I lost 1 kg (2.2 lb) which was a small loss for somebody at my
weight (119.5 kg to start = 263 lb), but I found the Core eating list
easy to abide by and continued for a 2nd week.

I don't know anything about core or even WW in general. My thing is
calorie counting.

I use fitday.com to count everything that passes my lips (well nearly
- i cheat too ) I then follow WW guidelines on what to eat like lots
of veges and fruit and low(ish) fat etc. I don't think it matters too
much what you eat so long as you don't eat too many calories.

My guess is that you should be eating around 2000 calories to lose
weight slowly. You should be able to do this without much difficulty.
Eating plenty of protein will help,

If you have come off a low carb diet recently the weight gain is
probably just water weight. You can gain back about 10 pounds if
you've been eating very few carbs for some time.

My take is that core seems to suit you (after low carb), so stick with
it a while longer, but try to limit the starchy stuff a bit. Try
squash instead of potato for instance? Use broccoli and cauliflower to
bulk out meals. Green beans instead of corn maybe?

If you did gain a pound or two don't worry, If you have been losing
weight for a long time a week or two at maintenance will probably be a
great way to kick start you metabolism for some more weight loss once
you get the calories sorted out.

Good luck

Ray

--
2002 1.8i eternal red

Laura wrote:
"Doug Lerner" wrote in message

This morning, the end of week 2, I weighed in and found my weight had
creeped up to 119.0 kg, a weekly gain of 0.5 kg (1.1 lb). This was not a
daily fluctuation, because I'd been sneaking peeks all week and saw my
weight gradually creep up.


Sorry to hear about this loss but I am sure you will figure out how to fix
this next week.

Thanks for your note, Laura, and your other suggestions.

I think I'll try adjusting Core first before resorting to just calorie
counting or more journaling. I still can't bring myself back to doing that.

I'm going to start with moving beef out of Core and make myself use some
of the 35 "flexpoints" you are allowed each week to eat that.

I know it's just a mental trick, but it worked yesterday. I had
boneless, skinless breast of chicken for dinner, mixed with fat free
salsa and mixed vegies (peas, carrots and corn). Very filling and
probably half the total calories of the dinners I have been eating.

Also, in going over what I ate this past week, it is possible I ate an
afternoon tofu-based snack that I assumed was Core but really isn't
because it's made with oil. That might have added a few hundred calories
a day.

So first I'll try those couple of changes and see how it goes.

And this morning, I weighed in at 118.0, which is actually down 0.5 kg
(1.1 lb) from last Friday. So things are not hopeless yet.

doug

"Doug Lerner" wrote in message
...
Laura wrote:
"Doug Lerner" wrote in message

This morning, the end of week 2, I weighed in and found my weight had
creeped up to 119.0 kg, a weekly gain of 0.5 kg (1.1 lb). This was not a
daily fluctuation, because I'd been sneaking peeks all week and saw my
weight gradually creep up.


Sorry to hear about this loss but I am sure you will figure out how to
fix
this next week.

Thanks for your note, Laura, and your other suggestions.

I think I'll try adjusting Core first before resorting to just calorie
counting or more journaling. I still can't bring myself back to doing
that.

I'm going to start with moving beef out of Core and make myself use some
of the 35 "flexpoints" you are allowed each week to eat that.

I know it's just a mental trick, but it worked yesterday. I had
boneless, skinless breast of chicken for dinner, mixed with fat free
salsa and mixed vegies (peas, carrots and corn). Very filling and
probably half the total calories of the dinners I have been eating.

Also, in going over what I ate this past week, it is possible I ate an
afternoon tofu-based snack that I assumed was Core but really isn't
because it's made with oil. That might have added a few hundred calories
a day.

So first I'll try those couple of changes and see how it goes.

And this morning, I weighed in at 118.0, which is actually down 0.5 kg
(1.1 lb) from last Friday. So things are not hopeless yet.

Your changes sound like a good plan. I think most of my meals tend to be low
fat/high fiber as much as possible. I eat chicken for lunch most days since
DH likes beef over chicken. My downfall is meals eaten out. This week was
only 1 lunch and 1 dinner. Still the scale is not moving. I am bringing my
journal from this and last week for my leader to look at. Something is not
right.