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You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof.



 
 
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  #41  
Old April 8th, 2004, 03:58 AM
revek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof.

Chrono-Z burbled across the ether:
Promoting low-carb and supporting others doing low-carb doesnt
translate into vicious bashing of anything else not low-carb. It's a
maturity issue. Bashing things out of ignorance does nothing for your
cause.


Cause? This group's "cause" is to support those who want to lowcarb.

The bashers come here to harrass lowcarbers, lowcarbers don't go out to
other groups to bash anybody. I say the bashers who come here get what
they give (and deserve). It's not like they're going to actually
*listen* to anybody here. These are trolls after all.

Now if you want to have a real discussion amongst sensible people
(non-trolls) then you'd find Peter quite sensible on the subject
although enthusiastic about his personal epiphany. But this is not that
kind of thread.

--
revek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June
2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please
"Dr. Phil is a weenie head!" --Kevin


  #43  
Old April 8th, 2004, 04:00 AM
Karen Rodgers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brainwashing, and low carb diets (Long post)

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:50:31 GMT, "Chrono-Z" wrote:

Very informative post. It's just a generic term to me, i'm not a linguist by
any means. I was told by my family and friends repeatedly to go on the diet
or I would be diebetic and lose my feet, so I guess that was just the
experiance I was going for. I really don't want to argue over a word.


Not your fault, I just got tired of seeing the word used incorrectly.
I'm no lingust either. (But, boy, do I love http://dictionary.com/ !)
Like I said, I really wasn't picking on you. More like a hard slap at
someone else who keeps insisting that we're all brainwashed. :-(

Sorry you got in the way,

Karen Rodgers

**********
Windbourne, folk singers of the future
http://www.windbourne.com/
remove "_rice_" from my email address
**********
  #44  
Old April 8th, 2004, 04:02 AM
JC Der Koenig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brainwashing, and low carb diets (Long post)

You actually have to own a brain to be able to wash it.

HTH


"Chrono-Z" wrote in message
om...
Very informative post. It's just a generic term to me, i'm not a linguist

by
any means. I was told by my family and friends repeatedly to go on the

diet
or I would be diebetic and lose my feet, so I guess that was just the
experiance I was going for. I really don't want to argue over a word.

"Karen Rodgers" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:09:09 GMT, "Chrono-Z" wrote:

You know i'm actually starting to agree with you about the brainwashing
thing. I was on atkins for 3 months and yes I lost some weight, but it
wasn't with out a price. Just 2 weeks ago I was in the emergency room

with a
morphine iv drip in my arm. Apparently my gallbladder had became
mysteriously enflamed. The doctor said my liver and kidney functions

were
horrid. He said he's seen a couple of people come in with similar

problems.
He refered me to a dietician who worked with me and helped me form a

healthy
way of eatting that was loosly based on a diabetic diet that was well
rounded and limited calories to a respectable amount. I don't care how

much
fat or protein keeps me from being hungry. I can deal with being hungry

a
few weeks until my body gets used to the lower ammount of calories. It

beats
the hell out of being in the hospital again.


(I'm not picking on you, sorry.)

Ah, no, if you'd been brainwashed, you'd continue Aktins, even though,
clearly, it isn't for you. Atkins isn't a miracle diet, there isn't
any one diet that's good for absolutely everyone. I wish you a lot of
luck, and good health with your diet.

But instead of just throwing words like "brainwashing" around willy
nilly, like the OP on that other thread ("Atkins quackery, proof," or
whatever it was) did, let's be very clear about its meaning.

Here's the American Heritage Dictionary definition of the word
"brainwashing."

brain·wash·ing, n.

1. Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or
religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions
and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of
fixed beliefs.
2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion,
such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in
order to develop a specific belief or motivation.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

And from CancerWEB's On-line Medical Dictionary,

brainwashing

psychology Inducing an individual to modify attitudes and
actions in certain directions through the application of
various forms of psychological pressure or torture.

(17 Dec 1997)
On-line Medical Dictionary, © 1997-98
Academic Medical Publishing & CancerWEB

Going by these definitions, there is no true brainwashing associated
with low carb diets, Atkins included.

American Heritage definition #1, "Intensive, forcible indoctrination,
usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic
convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set
of fixed beliefs."

No one indoctrinated me forcibly, or otherwise, all I did was read the
Atkins book (and since, other books on the subject), follow it with
further research, and be swayed by hard data. This is indoctrination?
Since when?

American Heritage definition #2. "The application of a concentrated
means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated
suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation."

I've never seen buckets of ads on tv for the Atkins diet, nor
commercials on the radio touting it (just ads that advertise low carb
friendly eating, not the same as saying "Go on ____ diet." However it
is saying "Buy stuff to go along with ____ diet"). I get more
advertising persuasion about what car to drive than I get for the
Atkins diet. So far car ads haven't swayed me to go out and buy every
car I see. So persuasion by advertising is out. That leaves repeated
suggestion, nope, that's not applicable either, no one said "Go on
Atkins." to me over and over again, if anything, the opposite is true.

Moving on to the Cancerweb On-line Medical Dictionary definition,
"Inducing an individual to modify attitudes and actions in certain
directions through the application of various forms of psychological
pressure or torture."

I wasn't tortured, nor suffered various forms of psychological
pressure to be swayed to switch to a low carb diet. I'd make a good
bet that most everyone else here wasn't either.

I should also add that I started low carbing when low carbing wasn't
cool (went off, my bad, and restarted seriously again last year). My
own empircal data, weight loss, lower blood pressure, lower cholestrol
(189, thank you very much), and bloodwork all tell my doctor and I,
that I'm on the right track.

Karen Rodgers

**********
Windbourne, folk singers of the future
http://www.windbourne.com/
remove "_rice_" from my email address
**********





  #45  
Old April 8th, 2004, 04:04 AM
Chrono-Z
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof.

I agree Peter is knowledgable on the subject of low-carbing. I never said
otherwise. But telling people they will die if they do not choose to live a
low-carb lifestyle is just ignorant.

"revek" wrote in message
...
Chrono-Z burbled across the ether:
Promoting low-carb and supporting others doing low-carb doesnt
translate into vicious bashing of anything else not low-carb. It's a
maturity issue. Bashing things out of ignorance does nothing for your
cause.


Cause? This group's "cause" is to support those who want to lowcarb.

The bashers come here to harrass lowcarbers, lowcarbers don't go out to
other groups to bash anybody. I say the bashers who come here get what
they give (and deserve). It's not like they're going to actually
*listen* to anybody here. These are trolls after all.

Now if you want to have a real discussion amongst sensible people
(non-trolls) then you'd find Peter quite sensible on the subject
although enthusiastic about his personal epiphany. But this is not that
kind of thread.

--
revek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June
2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please
"Dr. Phil is a weenie head!" --Kevin




  #46  
Old April 8th, 2004, 04:22 AM
revek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof.

Chrono-Z burbled across the ether:
I agree Peter is knowledgable on the subject of low-carbing. I never
said otherwise. But telling people they will die if they do not
choose to live a low-carb lifestyle is just ignorant.


Maybe if I rephrase: Telling a TROLL that he should go ahead and eat
himself to death, is not the same as saying it to PEOPLE.

Saying that to PEOPLE would be ignorant, and cruel besides, and Peter
tries hard to be a good man and wouldn't do that intentionally.

TROLLS on the other hand are fair game. TROLLS reject their membership
in the human race made up of PEOPLE by their deliberate and nasty
behavior.

This is a TROLL thread. Ergo, anything said in it is aimed at the
TROLL, not PEOPLE.
--
revek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June
2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please
It has been said that education would not be necessary if things were
as they seem. But perhaps things are as they seem only if one knows how
to look. -- [unattributed]


  #47  
Old April 8th, 2004, 05:00 AM
Chrono-Z
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof.

I agree, but what if someone who wasn't a newsgroup regular and was just
looking here thinking of doing low-carb sees someone telling someone else to
do it or die. That's all, no need to turn it into something else.

"revek" wrote in message
...
Chrono-Z burbled across the ether:
I agree Peter is knowledgable on the subject of low-carbing. I never
said otherwise. But telling people they will die if they do not
choose to live a low-carb lifestyle is just ignorant.


Maybe if I rephrase: Telling a TROLL that he should go ahead and eat
himself to death, is not the same as saying it to PEOPLE.

Saying that to PEOPLE would be ignorant, and cruel besides, and Peter
tries hard to be a good man and wouldn't do that intentionally.

TROLLS on the other hand are fair game. TROLLS reject their membership
in the human race made up of PEOPLE by their deliberate and nasty
behavior.

This is a TROLL thread. Ergo, anything said in it is aimed at the
TROLL, not PEOPLE.
--
revek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June
2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please
It has been said that education would not be necessary if things were
as they seem. But perhaps things are as they seem only if one knows how
to look. -- [unattributed]




  #48  
Old April 8th, 2004, 05:22 AM
revek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof.

Chrono-Z burbled across the ether:
I agree, but what if someone who wasn't a newsgroup regular and was
just looking here thinking of doing low-carb sees someone telling
someone else to do it or die.


I'm pretty sure anybody who can find their way here can figure out a
troll thread when they see one, and if they can't they will be educated
on the subject real quick.

Especially if they are reading from a web interface, where they can see
all of the thread at once, web boards being better at retaining the
entire thread than newsservers, and the added bonus of usually being
able to just scroll down the page to read all the messages rather than
opening individual posts like a reader does.

Now not to say that there aren't some pretty stupid people in the world,
but they need to learn to sink or swim just like everybody else on
usenet, or find a moderated forum like LowCarb Retreat --which I
understand isn't taking new registrations right now but there are others
which folks can find much easier than this place.

I don't believe we should censor ourselves in fear of what *might*
happen or nothing will ever get said because there is nothing that you
can say that is *perfectly* safe. Somebody somewhere is going to get
the wrong idea no matter what you say.

That's all, no need to turn it into
something else.


What else is there except Pete flamed a troll, and you chastised him for
it because it looks bad to non-regulars and it's ignorant, etc?

I disagree that we have to be polite, or sensible, or reasonable, or
morally superior to trolls, that's all.

--
revek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June
2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please
A good pun is its own punishment.


  #49  
Old April 8th, 2004, 02:14 PM
Evelyn Ruut
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof.

"Chrono-Z" wrote in message
om...
Promoting low-carb and supporting others doing low-carb doesnt translate
into vicious bashing of anything else not low-carb. It's a maturity issue.
Bashing things out of ignorance does nothing for your cause.



Anyone who comes here to bash low carb diet is a troll, IMHO. There are
plenty of other newsgroups supportive of other diets and lifestyles. We
are here to help each other, not to convince anyone of anything.
--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")


  #50  
Old April 8th, 2004, 02:15 PM
Evelyn Ruut
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof.

"revek" wrote in message
...
Chrono-Z burbled across the ether:
I agree Peter is knowledgable on the subject of low-carbing. I never
said otherwise. But telling people they will die if they do not
choose to live a low-carb lifestyle is just ignorant.


Maybe if I rephrase: Telling a TROLL that he should go ahead and eat
himself to death, is not the same as saying it to PEOPLE.

Saying that to PEOPLE would be ignorant, and cruel besides, and Peter
tries hard to be a good man and wouldn't do that intentionally.

TROLLS on the other hand are fair game. TROLLS reject their membership
in the human race made up of PEOPLE by their deliberate and nasty
behavior.

This is a TROLL thread. Ergo, anything said in it is aimed at the
TROLL, not PEOPLE.
--
revek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June
2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please




It has


Bravo, Revek! I agree with you.
--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")



 




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