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Blame Your Mother



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 19th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Stacey Bender
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Default Blame Your Mother

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles...392048&cat=all
  #2  
Old May 19th, 2005, 04:27 PM
Nunya B.
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"Stacey Bender" wrote in message
...
http://www.sciencentral.com/articles...392048&cat=all


So what. If you have some condition or disease or genetic/chemical makeup
that makes you prone to obesity it simply means you will need to work harder
than the average person who was dealt a better hand. I'm going deaf and I
have to go through more effort than you to communicate effectively in a face
to face setting. Just because I know the exact cause of my condition (which
happens to be congential) doesn't mean I should sit back and wallow in pity
over it. It's also MY responsibility to make sure I can function at work
and make the necessary accomodations, no one else's.

I know why I became supermorbidly obese. I was obese from the time I was 6
years old until I finally found a way to stop being obese. I also know that
for the rest of my life I won't be able to eat the same kinds or quantities
of foods as some of my female friends because my body wants desperately to
be fat again. Like I tell my kids and I tell my hormones - you can't always
get what you want. Doesn't matter to me if it came from my mother,
grandmother, or my 3rd cousin twice removed on my father's side. All that
matters is that I have to CHOOSE what I want and the DO what it takes to get
what I want.
--
the volleyballchick
in the end I *always* get what I want


  #3  
Old May 19th, 2005, 06:23 PM
Stacey Bender
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Default

Nunya B. wrote:
"Stacey Bender" wrote in message
...

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles...392048&cat=all



So what.


That's quite the spirit of exploration you have. It's fascinating, don't
you think?

If you have some condition or disease or genetic/chemical makeup
that makes you prone to obesity it simply means you will need to work harder
than the average person who was dealt a better hand.


A lot of people don't know they got dealt a hand at all.

And how do you work harder to make yourself taller? That's a lot of what
obesity is like.


I know why I became supermorbidly obese.


I doubt it. We have no way to tell what hand you were dealt. You know
it's hard. But you don't know how hard or why.

  #4  
Old May 19th, 2005, 06:44 PM
Nunya B.
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Default


"Stacey Bender" wrote in message
...
Nunya B. wrote:
"Stacey Bender" wrote in message
...

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles...392048&cat=all



So what.


That's quite the spirit of exploration you have. It's fascinating, don't
you think?


Not really. I have other interests that I pursue that are more rewarding.
You know nothing about my "spirit of exploration." I'd rather try a new
sport, hike a new trail, or play with new fitness gadgets than sit around
and read for excuses to make about my weight issues. With regards to
research, I do plenty, just in a different field that probably wouldn't be
of interest to you regardless of your "spirit of exploration."

If you have some condition or disease or genetic/chemical makeup that
makes you prone to obesity it simply means you will need to work harder
than the average person who was dealt a better hand.


A lot of people don't know they got dealt a hand at all.

And how do you work harder to make yourself taller? That's a lot of what
obesity is like.


I was obese for over 30 years and working on it for 25 of those years, so I
have a clue, apparently more than you do. Obesity and height are not alike.
Obesity is preventable for most adults. For those who were obese as children
it is treatable unless you are one of the rare cases of Prader-Willi
Syndrome. Nothing I can do to myself will make me taller (besides wearing
heels), but experiementing with what I eat and how I exercise to find a WOL
that will let me be a normal sized person makes me thinner.

I know why I became supermorbidly obese.


I doubt it. We have no way to tell what hand you were dealt. You know it's
hard. But you don't know how hard or why.


It's a little (a lot) presumptuous and rather arrogant for you to decide
that you know more about me than I do about me since you know nearly nothing
about me. I actually do know the physiological basis for my history of
obesity and I know enough about it to control what I can. Do I know it to
the genetic level? No, but then again there wouldn't be anything I could do
about it since I can't change my genes so I work with what I know and have a
life beyond that. As I said, it's like my hearing loss. I know the exact
process of the congenital defect that runs in my family that is causing me
to go deaf. I know where it came from and how I ended up with it. It's not
going to make me hear again.
--
the volleyballchick


  #5  
Old May 19th, 2005, 07:15 PM
Stacey Bender
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Posts: n/a
Default

Nunya B. wrote:
That's quite the spirit of exploration you have. It's fascinating, don't
you think?



Not really. I have other interests that I pursue that are more rewarding.
You know nothing about my "spirit of exploration."


But I do. When fascinating new information comes in about how we work,
your response is "so what." Your only lense is your struggle with weight.

I'd rather try a new
sport, hike a new trail, or play with new fitness gadgets than sit around
and read for excuses to make about my weight issues.


Reasons are different than excuses. When a piano falls on your head, the
excuse isn't gravity.

With regards to
research, I do plenty, just in a different field that probably wouldn't be
of interest to you regardless of your "spirit of exploration."


And your spirit moves you to limit what I can be interested in as well.


I was obese for over 30 years and working on it for 25 of those years, so I
have a clue, apparently more than you do.


Why would you say that? Your previous obesity isn't an "i know
everything about it" card.

Obesity and height are not alike.


Actually they are. Between 50-70% obesity is thought to be genetic.

Obesity is preventable for most adults.


Stick somone in a controlled situation eating controlled foods and it is
100% preventable. That's not the situation we live in however.

For those who were obese as children
it is treatable unless you are one of the rare cases of Prader-Willi
Syndrome.


There are a lot more genetic issues than that.

Nothing I can do to myself will make me taller (besides wearing
heels),


Nutrition while growing would have made an immense difference.
Environment influence genetics and genetics influence our environment.

but experiementing with what I eat and how I exercise to find a WOL
that will let me be a normal sized person makes me thinner.


If you are a black woman who has naturally more ghrelin which makes you
naturally hungrier, at what point does that go from excuse to a reason?

If you are saying no matter what you can always be thing no matter how
hard your body makes it, then I can't completely agree, but let's say I
mostly agree.

For most people most of the time will they be able to win over the vast
forces against them?
  #6  
Old May 19th, 2005, 07:45 PM
Nunya B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Stacey Bender" wrote in message
...
Nunya B. wrote:
That's quite the spirit of exploration you have. It's fascinating, don't
you think?



Not really. I have other interests that I pursue that are more
rewarding. You know nothing about my "spirit of exploration."


But I do. When fascinating new information comes in about how we work,
your response is "so what." Your only lense is your struggle with weight.


I'd rather try a new sport, hike a new trail, or play with new fitness
gadgets than sit around and read for excuses to make about my weight
issues.


Reasons are different than excuses. When a piano falls on your head, the
excuse isn't gravity.


Do you just use some kind of random word generator or something?

With regards to research, I do plenty, just in a different field that
probably wouldn't be of interest to you regardless of your "spirit of
exploration."


And your spirit moves you to limit what I can be interested in as well.


I was obese for over 30 years and working on it for 25 of those years, so
I have a clue, apparently more than you do.


Why would you say that? Your previous obesity isn't an "i know everything
about it" card.


No, it isn't, but I do know enough about it to have tackled it without being
a self-righteous ass.

Obesity and height are not alike.


Actually they are. Between 50-70% obesity is thought to be genetic.


But you can't control your height. There are some genetic things I can
control and others I can't. My weight is under my control in the long run.
I might have to do some really difficult things to control it but that would
be my decision whether or not to do so.

Obesity is preventable for most adults.


Stick somone in a controlled situation eating controlled foods and it is
100% preventable. That's not the situation we live in however.


You're right, we don't live in a lab so that's why I don't regard these
studies as the holy grail. However, I am an adult and have free will. I
can decide to be a victim of my circumstances or I can work with what I
personally have control over. No one is forcing Krispy Kremes down my
throat or yours. I've dealt with compusive eating issues as a bulimic so I
know very well how I can be affected by my environment. I CHOSE to learn
coping skills that didn't involve cramming food in my face. Obesity is
preventable almost all cases. People just might not like the methods needed
to prevent it. That is the point here.

For those who were obese as children it is treatable unless you are one of
the rare cases of Prader-Willi Syndrome.


There are a lot more genetic issues than that.


Most other "genetic" issues are still theory and despite the issues people
have overcome them by doing whatever it took.

Nothing I can do to myself will make me taller (besides wearing heels),


Nutrition while growing would have made an immense difference. Environment
influence genetics and genetics influence our environment.


You're way off here. ADULTS can prevent obesity or treat their obesity.
ADULTS have some control over their environment. There is no way ADULTS can
make themselves physically taller but they can become thinner. And
regardless of my nutrition and environment, I'd never be 5'10" because I
come from a family of short people (genetics). However I come from fat
people too and was raised in a food-is-love environment and yet I managed to
go from being the largest person in my immediate family to the smallest.

but experiementing with what I eat and how I exercise to find a WOL that
will let me be a normal sized person makes me thinner.


If you are a black woman who has naturally more ghrelin which makes you
naturally hungrier, at what point does that go from excuse to a reason?


When the woman uses that excuse to not even attempt to deal with the hunger
in a productive way.

If you are saying no matter what you can always be thing no matter how
hard your body makes it, then I can't completely agree, but let's say I
mostly agree.


You can depending on how far you are willing to go and what you are willing
to endure in an extreme case.

For most people most of the time will they be able to win over the vast
forces against them?


Not in today's society because people want an easy way out and don't want to
deal with hard work or discomfort.
--
the volleyballchick


  #7  
Old May 19th, 2005, 09:38 PM
Stacey Bender
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nunya B. wrote:
Reasons are different than excuses. When a piano falls on your head, the
excuse isn't gravity.



Do you just use some kind of random word generator or something?


Is there an idea you disagreed with or did you get tired of saying what
is the point?


Why would you say that? Your previous obesity isn't an "i know everything
about it" card.



No, it isn't, but I do know enough about it to have tackled it without being
a self-righteous ass.


That's not noticeable from your posts.


You're right, we don't live in a lab so that's why I don't regard these
studies as the holy grail. However, I am an adult and have free will.


The body mechanism are part of you mind and your body and your will.
Your body makes you hungry. If you are constantly hungry is it
reasonable to expect people not to eat?

Identical twins raised in different families, religions, areas,
following different diets. Yet they are still close to the same weight.
Far closer than siblings and non-identical twins. Your will is free, but
not unlimitted when it comes to physical mechanisms.

People just might not like the methods needed
to prevent it. That is the point here.


Now you have hijacked the point from a threat I started.

Most other "genetic" issues are still theory and despite the issues people
have overcome them by doing whatever it took.


Hardly just theory. Overcome them doing whatever it takes sounds very macho.


You're way off here.


That's my random word generator again.

ADULTS can prevent obesity or treat their obesity.
ADULTS have some control over their environment.


If can have perfect control it is possible. That's just not very
probable. As we see by the failure rates.


If you are a black woman who has naturally more ghrelin which makes you
naturally hungrier, at what point does that go from excuse to a reason?



When the woman uses that excuse to not even attempt to deal with the hunger
in a productive way.


It's not excuse. It's physical fact. But because it's hunger it's not
real? If you hit me would you tell me my pain is not real and I am not
dealing with it in a productive way?

You can depending on how far you are willing to go and what you are willing
to endure in an extreme case.


Again, very macho. I must endure everything to be thin. Why would that
be? If it's too hard then I won't do it. Just like I gave up my quest
for the 4 minute mile.


Not in today's society because people want an easy way out and don't want to
deal with hard work or discomfort.


Let's see, most of the obese people I know are pretty hard workers. I am
sure they would be amused to hear you say they aren't. Evaluating
someone elses experience as discomfort is the type of arrogance I have
come to expect from you.
  #8  
Old May 19th, 2005, 09:52 PM
Nunya B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Stacey Bender" wrote in message
...
Not in today's society because people want an easy way out and don't want
to deal with hard work or discomfort.


Let's see, most of the obese people I know are pretty hard workers. I am
sure they would be amused to hear you say they aren't. Evaluating someone
elses experience as discomfort is the type of arrogance I have come to
expect from you.


Speak for yourself (pot-kettle here). I have decades of firsthand
experience as an obese person and pleny of empathy and sympathy for those
who are trying to do something about it. What I don't care for are FFID's
like yourself who decide to blame the world and your genetics for your
choices. If you prefer the taste of food over being a healthy weight,
that's your CHOICE.

You're picking a fight with the wrong person here. I've spent the last 20
years dealing with at eating disorder that pretty much dominated my life. I
understand what it is like to feel like you're out of control and can't help
yourself probably more than you ever have from reading your articles. I
didn't just wake up cured one day. It took years of serious work that was
more than mildly inconvenient. Not everyone is willing to do that. It
doesn't make them a bad person but they're no victim either. So take your
"macho" crap and shove it.
--
the volleyballchick


  #9  
Old May 19th, 2005, 10:18 PM
Stacey Bender
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Default

Nunya B. wrote:
Speak for yourself (pot-kettle here).


You are the one speaking for all obese people. You are the one saying
its always doable for everyone and if it isn't it's only because they
are weak and lazy.

I have decades of firsthand experience as an obese person


I am sure that is unique in this group.

and pleny of empathy and sympathy for those
who are trying to do something about it.


I don't really care about empathy and sympathy. I care about knowing why
losing weight is so hard. That means the biology top to bottom, of which
we still know very little.

What I don't care for are FFID's
like yourself who decide to blame the world and your genetics for your
choices.


You are projecting and you have no idea about my choice. I have found my
learning to be very helpful in attaining my own success. The it doesn't
matter approach you have has never worked for me. Actually knowing the
challenges I face is helpful.


If you prefer the taste of food over being a healthy weight,
that's your CHOICE.


Judgemental, arrogant, and again, projecting.


You're picking a fight with the wrong person here.


I am not picking anything. That you personalize everything as an attack
on your own identity, is your choice.

I've spent the last 20
years dealing with at eating disorder that pretty much dominated my life.


And you think you are the same as everyone else and what works for you
will work for everyone else?

I understand what it is like to feel like you're out of control and can't help
yourself probably more than you ever have from reading your articles.


Should we hug? You apparently know little and want to know even less.
For example, if you understood the relationship of food on your opiate
and dopamine systems that might be revealing. That your body fights back
with leptin and ghrelin and a dozen others chemicals to keep you hungry
migh be revealing. Most people still think hunger is psychological!

I didn't just wake up cured one day.


You aren't cured now. Food is an addiction that doesn't go away.

Not everyone is willing to do that.


Why do you think that is? Where's the line? What makes the decision for
different people? If you think it is because people aren't hard workers
you don't know a thing. You know your own pain. Very well. But that
doesn't tell you much else.

It
doesn't make them a bad person but they're no victim either. So take your
"macho" crap and shove it.


It's not on my diet, sorry.
  #10  
Old May 19th, 2005, 10:30 PM
Nunya B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Stacey Bender" wrote in message
...
Nunya B. wrote:
Speak for yourself (pot-kettle here).


You are the one speaking for all obese people. You are the one saying its
always doable for everyone and if it isn't it's only because they are weak
and lazy.


I never said they were weak and lazy. Those are your words.

I have decades of firsthand experience as an obese person


I am sure that is unique in this group.


Probably not, and I never said it was.

and pleny of empathy and sympathy for those who are trying to do something
about it.


I don't really care about empathy and sympathy. I care about knowing why
losing weight is so hard. That means the biology top to bottom, of which
we still know very little.


And again I contend that until they develop some kind of gene therapy for
obesity, it only helps to know what works for you as an individual to lose
weight and keep it off. This might take years of trying different things
but if you want it enough you can do it.

What I don't care for are FFID's like yourself who decide to blame the
world and your genetics for your choices.


You are projecting and you have no idea about my choice. I have found my
learning to be very helpful in attaining my own success. The it doesn't
matter approach you have has never worked for me. Actually knowing the
challenges I face is helpful.


But it's ok for you to project to me, got it. Anyway, I've done plenty of
reading and learning. I also know the challenges I face and deal with them.
That's what everyone who wants to lose weight needs to do.


If you prefer the taste of food over being a healthy weight, that's your
CHOICE.


Judgemental, arrogant, and again, projecting.


Speaking for yourself again...

I've spent the last 20 years dealing with at eating disorder that pretty
much dominated my life.


And you think you are the same as everyone else and what works for you
will work for everyone else?


Nope, but then again I'm not the one coming up with a million excuses about
why things won't work. I never said that what I did for me is what will
work for everyone else. Again, it's obvious that if you don't put words in
the mouths of those who disagree with you then you can't seem to make your
case.

I understand what it is like to feel like you're out of control and can't
help yourself probably more than you ever have from reading your
articles.


Should we hug? You apparently know little and want to know even less. For
example, if you understood the relationship of food on your opiate and
dopamine systems that might be revealing. That your body fights back with
leptin and ghrelin and a dozen others chemicals to keep you hungry migh be
revealing. Most people still think hunger is psychological!


And what exactly am I to do with that info besides be absolutely fascinated?
I know that when I'm hungry I need to address it. What works for me is not
to cram a box of oreos down my throat and then complain about my leptin
levels.

I didn't just wake up cured one day.


You aren't cured now. Food is an addiction that doesn't go away.


Very true. I'm in recovery. However, I'm not an addict, I'm a bulimic.
Don't call someone stupid and spell it wrong...

Not everyone is willing to do that.


Why do you think that is? Where's the line? What makes the decision for
different people? If you think it is because people aren't hard workers
you don't know a thing. You know your own pain. Very well. But that
doesn't tell you much else.


I know what I see and observe. I also know that it isn't only because
people aren't hard workers and that life gets in the way. However I also
know that making excuses isn't getting the job done.

Do us both a favor and stop whining about how judgemental people are being
toward you when you're the one who started judging those who you disagreed
with. I am only giving back what you're giving out.
--
the volleyballchick


 




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