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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...way_the_poison
Packing Away The Poison Genetic mutation allows Hudson River fish to adapt to PCBs, Dioxins 2/17/2011 Some fish in New York’s Hudson River have become "resistant" to several of the waterway’s more toxic pollutants. Instead of getting sick from dioxins and related compounds including some polychlorinated biphenyls, Atlantic tomcod harmlessly store these poisons in fat, a new study finds. But what’s good for this bottom-dwelling species could be bad for those feeding on it, says Isaac Wirgin of the New York University School of Medicine’s Institute of Environmental Medicine in Tuxedo. Each bite of tomcod that a predator takes, he explains, will move a potent dose of toxic chemicals up the food chain — eventually into species that could end up on home dinner tables. From 1947 to 1976, two General Electric manufacturing plants along the Hudson River produced PCBs for a range of uses, including as insulating fluids in electrical transformers. Over the years, PCB and dioxin levels in the livers of the Hudson’s tomcod rose to become “among the highest known in nature,” Wirgin and his colleagues note online February 17 in Science. Because these fish don’t detoxify PCBs, Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports that the tomcod’s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene. The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to unleash the pollutants’ toxicity. All vertebrates contain molecules in their cells that will bind to dioxins and related compounds. Indeed, these proteins — aryl hydrocarbon receptors, or AHRs — are often referred to as dioxin receptors. Once these poisons diffuse into an exposed cell, each molecule can mate with a receptor and together they eventually pick up a third molecule. This trio can then dock with select segments of DNA in the cell’s nucleus to inappropriately turn on genes that can poison the host animal. The tomcod actually has two types of AHRs, with AHR-2 offering the most effective binding to dioxin-like pollutants. But one naturally occurring AHR-2 variant, the result of a gene mutation, proves a very poor mate, Wirgin’s team has found. It takes five times more of the pollutants to get substantial binding than is needed with the conventional AHR-2. In local rivers relatively free of dioxins and PCBs, 95 percent of tomcod possess AHR-2 only in the conventional form. But in the PCB- rich Hudson, Wirgin’s group finds, the only kind of AHR-2 protein in 99 percent of tomcod is the poorly binding variant. The mutant receptor appears to have evolved long ago and to be widely dispersed. But in the Hudson, fish with the gene to make the mutant receptor have thrived, while those without it have died out ... ----- For more on POPs & Insulin Resistance, see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854721/ |
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
On 8/6/2011 9:05 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
jay wrote: Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports that the tomcod’s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene. The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to unleash the pollutants’ toxicity. Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too. Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore. There was one incidence of a public report stating that the early tests for DDT didn't distinguish between DDT and PCB's, and that's what led to the entire "silent spring" debacle. And of course what people miss completely is that PCB's were outlawed at the same time that DDT was, so the effect on birds could have come from either, or both, being reduced. I doubt that anyone will ever own up to this mjor error after so many years of condemning DDT. |
#3
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted HudsonRiver
jay wrote:
Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports that the tomcod’s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene. The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to unleash the pollutants’ toxicity. Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too. Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore. |
#4
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
In article ,
outsider wrote: On 8/6/2011 9:05 PM, Mark Thorson wrote: jay wrote: Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports that the tomcod¹s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene. The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to unleash the pollutants¹ toxicity. Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too. Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore. There was one incidence of a public report stating that the early tests for DDT didn't distinguish between DDT and PCB's, and that's what led to the entire "silent spring" debacle. And of course what people miss completely is that PCB's were outlawed at the same time that DDT was, so the effect on birds could have come from either, or both, being reduced. I doubt that anyone will ever own up to this mjor error after so many years of condemning DDT. Why aren't you over with the social scientists, or did they send you over here? DDT, PCB, Dioxin, PBDE among others are called "persistent organic pollutants". Because they don't break down. They are even found in penguins, although there hasn't been a mosquito problem in Antarctica for years. DDT hasn't been outlawed, it has been restricted. Thing is, if you keep using the same poison, the little buggers build-up a resistance. And don't you worry about the makers of biocides, twice as much is being produced today, than back when Rachel Carson published "Silent Spring". It's all bad ****. -- - Billy Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans "appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of waste, fraud and abuse." http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/ [W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation. - Ralph Nader http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis |
#5
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
On 8/7/2011 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:
In , wrote: On 8/6/2011 9:05 PM, Mark Thorson wrote: jay wrote: Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports that the tomcod¹s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene. The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to unleash the pollutants¹ toxicity. Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too. Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore. There was one incidence of a public report stating that the early tests for DDT didn't distinguish between DDT and PCB's, and that's what led to the entire "silent spring" debacle. And of course what people miss completely is that PCB's were outlawed at the same time that DDT was, so the effect on birds could have come from either, or both, being reduced. I doubt that anyone will ever own up to this mjor error after so many years of condemning DDT. Why aren't you over with the social scientists, or did they send you over here? Billy, I've had these discussions before in a.s.d. and I've been here more than a year discussing diabetes as well as the (mis)behavior of the local gentry. So what's with the smart aleck comment? DDT, PCB, Dioxin, PBDE among others are called "persistent organic pollutants". Because they don't break down. They don't seem to break down in nature is different from they don't break down. Since there is no accurate measure of the persistence, we only suspect things, but don't actually know them. In the past few decades, the methods of destruction have grown. My look at the problem some decades back revealed that the only method available for destruction was passing the product through a molten sodium bath. While the method works, it is today not the only successful means for destroying the "persistent" chemicals you're complaining about here. They are even found in penguins, although there hasn't been a mosquito problem in Antarctica for years. DDT hasn't been outlawed, it has been restricted. Thing is, if you keep using the same poison, the little buggers build-up a resistance. And don't you worry about the makers of biocides, twice as much is being produced today, than back when Rachel Carson published "Silent Spring". It's all bad ****. We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one lifeform. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. In the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and other lifeforms, over time. But it seems that humans are not developing an immunity to the infections dispensed by mosquitoes. All that's left is to select our victims. So far we've selected the human being. |
#6
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
In article ,
outsider wrote: On 8/7/2011 12:47 AM, Billy wrote: In , wrote: On 8/6/2011 9:05 PM, Mark Thorson wrote: jay wrote: Wirgin explains, it was a surprise that they could accumulate such hefty contamination without becoming poisoned. His team now reports that the tomcod¹s protection traces to a single mutation in one gene. The gene is responsible for producing a receptor protein needed to unleash the pollutants¹ toxicity. Great news! Now that we know the gene, we can get it too. Dioxin won't be considered a toxin anymore. There was one incidence of a public report stating that the early tests for DDT didn't distinguish between DDT and PCB's, and that's what led to the entire "silent spring" debacle. And of course what people miss completely is that PCB's were outlawed at the same time that DDT was, so the effect on birds could have come from either, or both, being reduced. I doubt that anyone will ever own up to this mjor error after so many years of condemning DDT. Why aren't you over with the social scientists, or did they send you over here? Billy, I've had these discussions before in a.s.d. and I've been here more than a year discussing diabetes as well as the (mis)behavior of the local gentry. So what's with the smart aleck comment? DDT, PCB, Dioxin, PBDE among others are called "persistent organic pollutants". Because they don't break down. They don't seem to break down in nature is different from they don't break down. Since there is no accurate measure of the persistence, we only suspect things, but don't actually know them. In the past few decades, the methods of destruction have grown. My look at the problem some decades back revealed that the only method available for destruction was passing the product through a molten sodium bath. While the method works, it is today not the only successful means for destroying the "persistent" chemicals you're complaining about here. They are even found in penguins, although there hasn't been a mosquito problem in Antarctica for years. DDT hasn't been outlawed, it has been restricted. Thing is, if you keep using the same poison, the little buggers build-up a resistance. And don't you worry about the makers of biocides, twice as much is being produced today, than back when Rachel Carson published "Silent Spring". It's all bad ****. We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one lifeform. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. In the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and other lifeforms, over time. But it seems that humans are not developing an immunity to the infections dispensed by mosquitoes. All that's left is to select our victims. So far we've selected the human being. Your premise is wrong. DDT hasn't been band, and how much will it cost us to throw away one of our best defenses to the mosquito by allowing the mosquito to quickly develop a resistance to DDT? DDT is used, but selectively with other practices, and insecticides to control mosquitos. Global warming will bring more mosquitos. Exposure to the bubonic plague seems to have imbued some with resistance to HIV. Is this the price you want us to pay, not to mention the further loss bio-diversity? You really should look into a subject before you start pronouncing on it. -- - Billy Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans "appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of waste, fraud and abuse." http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/ [W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation. - Ralph Nader http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis |
#7
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
In alt.support.diabetes outsider wrote:
We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one lifeform. Because we haven't had the technology to be that specific, except by lucky accident. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. Not nonexistent, and growing rapidly as genomics science and technology develops. In the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and other lifeforms, over time. But it seems that humans are not developing an immunity to the infections dispensed by mosquitoes. You've not heard of sickle cell anemia? -- Chris Malcolm |
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
On 8/8/2011 1:35 AM, Billy wrote:
[...] Exposure to the bubonic plague seems to have imbued some with resistance to HIV. Is this the price you want us to pay, not to mention the further loss bio-diversity? You really should look into a subject before you start pronouncing on it. I'm sorry, Billy, but you're mistaken. I urge you to read this book, and perhaps other more advanced ones on the topic, and see how it all fits together. http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Making-Science-James-Gleick/dp/0143113453/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312810518&sr=8-1 For example: Exposure to bubonic plague did not cause the modification to the CR5 gene. Exposure to bubonic plague didn't lead the survivors to procreate more. Survival only allowed those with the mutant gene to represent a larger segment of a surviving population. However you'll find that Mediterranean peoples today have a smaller portion of the population with the mutant gene than those in northern Europe. Why would that be if the only survivors had the mutant gene? Logic would dictate that there's more than one mechanism for survival. But that's generally true for *any* mechanism where that mechanism can fail. A study of parasites in general shows how complex their needs are to survive generation after generation. I can't think of anything in the natural universe that's linear. Yet your arguments have historically depended on linear attributes. |
#9
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB Polluted Hudson River
In article ,
outsider wrote: On 8/8/2011 1:35 AM, Billy wrote: [...] Exposure to the bubonic plague seems to have imbued some with resistance to HIV. Is this the price you want us to pay, not to mention the further loss bio-diversity? You really should look into a subject before you start pronouncing on it. I'm sorry, Billy, but you're mistaken. I urge you to read this book, and perhaps other more advanced ones on the topic, and see how it all fits together. And I suggest that you read the Encyclopedia Britannica to see what knowledge looks like. You seem to be better adapted to sound bites than presenting an argument. Let's back up to, "We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one lifeform. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. In the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and other lifeforms, over time. We've not been able to create "magic bullet" toxins that affect only one lifeform. The likelihood of doing so is minute, perhaps nonexistent. In the meanwhile I'd rather see penguins in the antarctic experience a reduction in numbers than a million humans a year lose their lives to infection by the lowly mosquito. Ans since the mosquito develops a resistance to the effects of DT, for example, so will the penguins, and other lifeforms, over time. But it seems that humans are not developing an immunity to the infections dispensed by mosquitoes. All that's left is to select our victims. So far we've selected the human being." - outsider http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...o-combat-malar ia The scientists from the United States and South Africa said the insecticide, banned decades ago in most of the world, should only be used as a last resort in combating malaria. The stance of the panel, led by a University of California epidemiologist, is likely to be controversial with public health officials. Use of DDT to fight malaria has been increasing since it was endorsed in 2006 by the World Health Organization and the President's Malaria Initiative, a U.S. aid program . . . The scientists reported that DDT may have a variety of human health effects, including reduced fertility, genital birth defects, breast cancer, diabetes and damage to developing brains. Its metabolite, DDE, can block male hormones. In 2007, at least 3,950 tons of DDT were sprayed for mosquito control in Africa and Asia, according to a report by the United Nations Environment Programme. In South Africa, about 60 to 80 grams is sprayed in each household per year, Bouwman said. A 2007 study on male fertility is the only published research so far. Conducted in Limpopo, South Africa by de Jager and his colleagues, the study found men in the sprayed homes had extremely high levels of DDT in their blood and that their semen volume and sperm counts were low. "Clearly, more research is neededŠbut in the meantime, DDT should really be the last resort against malaria, rather than the first line of defense," Eskenazi said. The pesticide accumulates in body tissues, particularly breast milk, and lingers in the environment for decades. Since then [2001, Stockholm Convention], nine nations‹Ethiopia, South Africa, India, Mauritius, Myanmar, Yemen, Uganda, Mozambique and Swaziland‹notified the treaty's secretariat that they are using DDT. Five others‹Zimbabwe, North Korea, Eritrea, Gambia, Namibia and Zambia--also reportedly are using it, and six others, including China, have reserved the right to begin using it, according to a January Stockholm Convention report. Mexico, the rest of Central America and parts of Africa have combated malaria without DDT by using alternative methods, such as controlling stagnant ponds where mosquitoes breed and using bed nets treated with pyrethroid insecticides. But such efforts have been less successful in other places, particularly South Africa. "We have a whole host of mosquito species and more than one parasite. The biology of the vectors is different and there is therefore no one-method-fits-all strategy, as is the case in Central America," Bouwman said. --- So much for having chosen human beings for our victims On to the "Red Herring" of "Exposure to bubonic plague did not cause the modification to the (sic) CR5 [CCR5 ] gene". Plague didn't cause the mutation in CCR5, but it gave those who had it an evolutionary advantage. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/4/l_104_05.html Reading a chronological history, biologists traced the HIV-resistance gene mutation back about 700 years. That was the time at which the Black Death -- bubonic plague -- swept like a deadly scythe through Europe, killing one-third of the population. Then, as now, there were individuals who survived the lethal organism, perhaps because it could not enter their white blood cells. The areas that were hardest hit by the Black Plague match those where the gene for HIV resistance is the most common today. --- Also see http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/01/66198 Genetic HIV Resistance Deciphered http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Making-S...113453/ref=sr_ 1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312810518&sr=8-1 For example: Exposure to bubonic plague did not cause the modification to the CR5 gene. Exposure to bubonic plague didn't lead the survivors to procreate more. Survival only allowed those with the mutant gene to represent a larger segment of a surviving population. However you'll find that Mediterranean peoples today have a smaller portion of the population with the mutant gene than those in northern Europe. Which is where the mutation appears to have come from. Mystery solved. Why would that be if the only survivors had the mutant gene? Logic would dictate that there's more than one mechanism for survival. But that's generally true for *any* mechanism where that mechanism can fail. A study of parasites in general shows how complex their needs are to survive generation after generation. I can't think of anything in the natural universe that's linear. Yet your arguments have historically depended on linear attributes. Natural universe, perhaps not, but in scientific modeling (premise, hypothesis, conclusion, new hypothesis based on the synthesis of new information, ad infinitum) it is about all we have except for the occasional paradigm shifting revelations grated to the few. What you offer are interesting, unconnected, misleading factoids that prove nothing. -- - Billy Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans "appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of waste, fraud and abuse." http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/ [W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation. - Ralph Nader http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis |
#10
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Fish with Insensative Dioxin Receptor Survive in PCB PollutedHudson River
On 8/8/2011 12:26 PM, Billy wrote:
In , wrote: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/4/l_104_05.html Reading a chronological history, biologists traced the HIV-resistance gene mutation back about 700 years. That was the time at which the Black Death -- bubonic plague -- swept like a deadly scythe through Europe, killing one-third of the population. Then, as now, there were individuals who survived the lethal organism, perhaps because it could not enter their white blood cells. The areas that were hardest hit by the Black Plague match those where the gene for HIV resistance is the most common today. Correlation is not causation. Natural universe, perhaps not, but in scientific modeling (premise, hypothesis, conclusion, new hypothesis based on the synthesis of new information, ad infinitum) it is about all we have except for the occasional paradigm shifting revelations grated to the few. What you offer are interesting, unconnected, misleading factoids that prove nothing. We agree to disagree. But do let me know if/when you've actually read something worthwhile about Chaos (internet web pages of the same value as printed material are few) and have some understanding of the topic. It is a growth area for most folks and I think your take on what you've published here will probably change. |
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