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#12
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
CR *prevents* loss of muscle mass?? How so?
From the little I've read/heard, one claim stuck in my mind: That CR works across *all* species, in every specie tested, including spiders! wow.... The question then is, how restricted is restricted? It's not, as one poster stated, cal in cal out-- that's the condition for weight *loss*, which is not a long-term steady-state condition. CR *is* steady state, corresonding to a weight less than "normal". But again, how much less? Beyond life extension, the best rationale for CR is that it, well, saves money! And the other point raised is a good one: Finding research that's not total bull****. Partial bull****, ok, but not total. ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "DZ" wrote in message . .. Doug Freyburger wrote: NYC XYZ wrote: What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"?? And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map. Whether they map convincingly inversely depends on the degree a person who's looking at the evidence enjoys food. It's just the rule, like Newton laws. But here go the monkeys - http://www.technologyreview.com/read...572&ch=biotech Interestingly, in monkeys, CR is preventing the loss of muscle mass, just like it does in aging rats and mice. Oh, to be a monkey! |
#13
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
people lived hundreds of years before the flood
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...er=5&version=9 and 120 was the age limit set in Genesis 6:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...er=6&version=9 TP wrote: "Doug Freyburger" wrote in message oups.com... NYC XYZ wrote: What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"?? And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map. Note that rats are fed a high carb grain based diet. Reduce their feed 30% and they live longer. The calorie people will point at the reduced calorie count and say eat less. The carb people will point at the reduced carb count and say eat low carb. The grain intolerance people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain and are therefore related to cattle. The vegans will point out that the rats aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy. We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and feed each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out 120 years later. Now you've done it. You've gone and trampled upon a religion called CRON whose god is the late Roy Walford, M.D. Walford wrote the CRON bible The 120 Year Diet. He didn't make it past 79. But dying of ALS doesn't count. He would have lived to 120 if he hadn't died. When you're an athiest there is no afterlife except if you have faith in getting frozen and later revivified, so you've got to believe CRON will enable you to live forever. It's not nice to trample on other people's religion. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6FDFB.5F6F8300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Google-AttachSize: 2617 !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1561" name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY DIVFONT face=Arial size=2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT face=Arial size=2"Doug Freyburger" </FONTA "FONT face=Arial /FONT/AFONT face=Arial size=2> wrote in message /FONTA oglegroups.com"FONT face=Arial ooglegroups.com/FONT/AFONT face=Arial size=2.../FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Arial size=2> NYC XYZ wrote:BR> >BR> > What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??BR> BR> And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map.BR> BR> Note that rats are fed a high carb grain based diet. Reduce their feedBR> 30% and they live longer. The calorie people will point at the reducedBR> calorie count and say eat less. The carb people will point at theBR> reduced carb count and say eat low carb. The grain intoleranceBR> people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain andBR> are therefore related to cattle. The vegans will point out that theBR> ratsBR> aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy.BR> BR> We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and feedBR> each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out 120BR> years later.BR> /FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Arial size=2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT face=Arial size=2Now you've done it. You've gone and trampled upon a religion called CRON whose god is the late Roy Walford, M.D. Walford wrote the CRON bible UThe 120 Year Diet/U. He didn't make it past 79. But dying of ALS doesn't count. He would have lived to 120 if he hadn't died. /FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Arial size=2/FONT /DIV DIVFONT face=Arial size=2When you're an athiest there is no afterlife except if you have faith in getting frozen and later revivified, so you've got to believe CRON will enable you to live forever. It's not nice to trample on other people's religion./FONT/DIV/BODY/HTML ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6FDFB.5F6F8300-- |
#14
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
Oh yeah, I seem to remember reading sumpn bout BW 20-30% below Met Life
tables, BMI, or whatever std is in vogue, as "CR". -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message ... CR *prevents* loss of muscle mass?? How so? From the little I've read/heard, one claim stuck in my mind: That CR works across *all* species, in every specie tested, including spiders! wow.... The question then is, how restricted is restricted? It's not, as one poster stated, cal in cal out-- that's the condition for weight *loss*, which is not a long-term steady-state condition. CR *is* steady state, corresonding to a weight less than "normal". But again, how much less? Beyond life extension, the best rationale for CR is that it, well, saves money! And the other point raised is a good one: Finding research that's not total bull****. Partial bull****, ok, but not total. ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "DZ" wrote in message . .. Doug Freyburger wrote: NYC XYZ wrote: What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"?? And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map. Whether they map convincingly inversely depends on the degree a person who's looking at the evidence enjoys food. It's just the rule, like Newton laws. But here go the monkeys - http://www.technologyreview.com/read...572&ch=biotech Interestingly, in monkeys, CR is preventing the loss of muscle mass, just like it does in aging rats and mice. Oh, to be a monkey! |
#15
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
In article ,
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote: Oh yeah, I seem to remember reading sumpn bout BW 20-30% below Met Life tables, BMI, or whatever std is in vogue, as "CR". -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message ... CR *prevents* loss of muscle mass?? How so? From the little I've read/heard, one claim stuck in my mind: That CR works across *all* species, in every specie tested, including spiders! wow.... The question then is, how restricted is restricted? It's not, as one poster stated, cal in cal out-- that's the condition for weight *loss*, which is not a long-term steady-state condition. CR *is* steady state, corresonding to a weight less than "normal". But again, how much less? Beyond life extension, the best rationale for CR is that it, well, saves money! And the other point raised is a good one: Finding research that's not total bull****. Partial bull****, ok, but not total. ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "DZ" wrote in message . .. Doug Freyburger wrote: NYC XYZ wrote: What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"?? And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map. Whether they map convincingly inversely depends on the degree a person who's looking at the evidence enjoys food. It's just the rule, like Newton laws. But here go the monkeys - http://www.technologyreview.com/read...572&ch=biotech Interestingly, in monkeys, CR is preventing the loss of muscle mass, just like it does in aging rats and mice. Oh, to be a monkey! The Scientist online mag suggested today that lowering the core temperature of mice .5 celcius resulted in a 15% increase in life span. The suggestion was the mechanism for calorie restriction working was lowered core temperature. If so it would be interesting to see if people (who live in more regulated environments) have a corresponding core temperature reduction. -- Keith |
#16
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
Except the body will not allow a lowered core temp--unless hypothermia is
OK, regardless of ambient temp. A 5 deg C core temp change is a drop of 9.5 deg F--well into hypothermia. I'm sure those mice weren't very perky or peppy. -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive! entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "Hobbes" wrote in message ... In article , "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote: Oh yeah, I seem to remember reading sumpn bout BW 20-30% below Met Life tables, BMI, or whatever std is in vogue, as "CR". -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message ... CR *prevents* loss of muscle mass?? How so? From the little I've read/heard, one claim stuck in my mind: That CR works across *all* species, in every specie tested, including spiders! wow.... The question then is, how restricted is restricted? It's not, as one poster stated, cal in cal out-- that's the condition for weight *loss*, which is not a long-term steady-state condition. CR *is* steady state, corresonding to a weight less than "normal". But again, how much less? Beyond life extension, the best rationale for CR is that it, well, saves money! And the other point raised is a good one: Finding research that's not total bull****. Partial bull****, ok, but not total. ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "DZ" wrote in message . .. Doug Freyburger wrote: NYC XYZ wrote: What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"?? And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map. Whether they map convincingly inversely depends on the degree a person who's looking at the evidence enjoys food. It's just the rule, like Newton laws. But here go the monkeys - http://www.technologyreview.com/read...572&ch=biotech Interestingly, in monkeys, CR is preventing the loss of muscle mass, just like it does in aging rats and mice. Oh, to be a monkey! The Scientist online mag suggested today that lowering the core temperature of mice .5 celcius resulted in a 15% increase in life span. The suggestion was the mechanism for calorie restriction working was lowered core temperature. If so it would be interesting to see if people (who live in more regulated environments) have a corresponding core temperature reduction. -- Keith |
#17
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
"TC" wrote in message ps.com... It isn't rocket science. Trust me, it isn't rocket science. Rocket science has actually succeeded and has actually placed a man on the moon and probes on Mars. snip TC Dude, we never went to the moon. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...the+moon&hl=en |
#18
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:11:16 -0600, Hobbes
wrote: In article , "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote: Oh yeah, I seem to remember reading sumpn bout BW 20-30% below Met Life tables, BMI, or whatever std is in vogue, as "CR". -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message ... CR *prevents* loss of muscle mass?? How so? From the little I've read/heard, one claim stuck in my mind: That CR works across *all* species, in every specie tested, including spiders! wow.... The question then is, how restricted is restricted? It's not, as one poster stated, cal in cal out-- that's the condition for weight *loss*, which is not a long-term steady-state condition. CR *is* steady state, corresonding to a weight less than "normal". But again, how much less? Beyond life extension, the best rationale for CR is that it, well, saves money! And the other point raised is a good one: Finding research that's not total bull****. Partial bull****, ok, but not total. ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "DZ" wrote in message . .. Doug Freyburger wrote: NYC XYZ wrote: What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"?? And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map. Whether they map convincingly inversely depends on the degree a person who's looking at the evidence enjoys food. It's just the rule, like Newton laws. But here go the monkeys - http://www.technologyreview.com/read...572&ch=biotech Interestingly, in monkeys, CR is preventing the loss of muscle mass, just like it does in aging rats and mice. Oh, to be a monkey! The Scientist online mag suggested today that lowering the core temperature of mice .5 celcius resulted in a 15% increase in life span. Recent scientific findings suggest the same kind of benefits from drinking red wine - in moderation of course! However, a corollary of this little snippet is that if you drink immoderately, you die younger but you don't really give a ****! ;o) |
#19
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
"TC" wrote in message ps.com... wrote: On 1 Nov 2006 19:09:26 -0800, "TC" wrote: Doug Freese wrote: "TC" wrote in message oups.com... These "restricted calorie" studies are pure crap. The control groups are usually fed un-natural pelletized manufactured crap for food. Then when they feed the test group less of the crap food, they live longer than the control group. Then they attribute it to restricted calories. Hey, the less poison you eat the longer you will live. It is that simple. It has nothing to do with calories. How can anyone have an intelligent dissussion with TC when he see's ghosts and goblins 252 days of year. -DF Have you read any of the studies discussed? I have. TC Reading and understanding are two different things. It isn't rocket science. Trust me, it isn't rocket science. We agree, it isn't rocket science. Eat too much you get fat. Eat balanced, avoid simple sugars and overly processed food and by all means, exercise and you will be healthy and not fat. Very simple indeed! Food science has only succeeded in giving us the highest rates of obesity and diet related chronic disease in world history, which is diametrically opposite to their stated goals. To many calories has caused the obesity. I suggest you start reading these nutrition studies closely and with an, at least, mildly critical eye. You will get an education on what garbage science really is. And there is a boogie man hiding behind very tree. -DF |
#20
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Just How Many Calories, Then?
That was a 0.5 degree temperature reduction. 5 degrees and you die of
hypothermia. Starvation probably affects core temp. in people as well. Do you want to live longer cold and starving? "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message ... Except the body will not allow a lowered core temp--unless hypothermia is OK, regardless of ambient temp. A 5 deg C core temp change is a drop of 9.5 deg F--well into hypothermia. I'm sure those mice weren't very perky or peppy. -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive! entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "Hobbes" wrote in message ... In article , "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote: Oh yeah, I seem to remember reading sumpn bout BW 20-30% below Met Life tables, BMI, or whatever std is in vogue, as "CR". -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message ... CR *prevents* loss of muscle mass?? How so? From the little I've read/heard, one claim stuck in my mind: That CR works across *all* species, in every specie tested, including spiders! wow.... The question then is, how restricted is restricted? It's not, as one poster stated, cal in cal out-- that's the condition for weight *loss*, which is not a long-term steady-state condition. CR *is* steady state, corresonding to a weight less than "normal". But again, how much less? Beyond life extension, the best rationale for CR is that it, well, saves money! And the other point raised is a good one: Finding research that's not total bull****. Partial bull****, ok, but not total. ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "DZ" wrote in message . .. Doug Freyburger wrote: NYC XYZ wrote: What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"?? And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map. Whether they map convincingly inversely depends on the degree a person who's looking at the evidence enjoys food. It's just the rule, like Newton laws. But here go the monkeys - http://www.technologyreview.com/read...572&ch=biotech Interestingly, in monkeys, CR is preventing the loss of muscle mass, just like it does in aging rats and mice. Oh, to be a monkey! The Scientist online mag suggested today that lowering the core temperature of mice .5 celcius resulted in a 15% increase in life span. The suggestion was the mechanism for calorie restriction working was lowered core temperature. If so it would be interesting to see if people (who live in more regulated environments) have a corresponding core temperature reduction. -- Keith |
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