Has just low-carb ever worked for anybody?

Doug Lerner wrote in message ...
Most of us, me included, eventually seem to arrive at the conclusion that we
need to watch calories in order to lose weight very long term (beyond the
quick loss you get from just watching carbs the first 6 months or so).

I use low-carb to help reduce hunger and to keep my blood sugar under
control. It has benefits beyond weight loss.

I am curious, though. Is there anybody in the world who has ever gone from
very obese (say verging on or past 300 lb) to completely normal goal weight
by JUST reducing carbs and not minding calories at all?

Are plans, like Atkins, being deceptive when they talk about ketosis?

doug


I was 250 and dropped to 193 by just lc'ing. I never calorie counted
and I never reduced my serving sizes from what I use to eat. I also
drank diet soda all the time and was no stranger to the controversial
lc bars and other "junk". I didn't keep a strict carb count policy,
either. I just ate what was lc and that was enough. I have no idea
really if I was always under 50 carbs a day or not...but it obviously
worked for me.

But now that I think about it, it was probably all water weight
anyway. I use to slush around like a big water cooler I guess.

Scott

katp wrote:

|
| I have just watched the Horizon documentary this week (it only screened in
| NZ on Tues) and I'm coming quickly to agreeing with the points you're
| making. I don't think that Atkins was being deliberately deceptive - the
| thinking on 'protein' being the single most important factor in
| suppressing appetite in low-carbers was something the scientists were
| just starting to report on when Atkins passed away (or that is what I
| understood from the closing words of the doco).
|
Perhaps for
| me the high protein/low calorie thing is going to work for me......but I
| shall wait and see.
|
| Kath


You obviously have not even read Atkins' book(s).

Atkins is NOT a "high-protein diet," nor does he say that "protein is the
single most important factor in suppressing appetite in low-carbers."
These are your words, not his, and you obviously have not even read his
book. It's fat that is the appetite suppressant.

Atkins is a high-fat/moderate protein/low carb way of eating, and it is
fat -- not protein -- that is the single most important factor in appetite
suppresssion on the plan (not protein).

If you're going to invent your own version of a low-carb way of eating that
does not work, please identify it as such ... and don't falsely blame a plan
that works with thousands of people that you obviously know little about,
much less are following.

Please Read Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution thoroughly, study and follow his
plan exactly as laid out, then come back here in 6 weeks and post again.
Tell us about your progress then -- hopefully with more knowldege of what
you are talking about instead of spewing made-up information based on
hearsay.
--
Peter
270/227/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Doug Lerner wrote in message ...

I am curious, though. Is there anybody in the world who has ever gone from
very obese (say verging on or past 300 lb) to completely normal goal weight
by JUST reducing carbs and not minding calories at all?


Not that, but I went from 250 to 179 (my current weight, low for my
height of 6'5) with low-carb, no watching calories and no exercise
whatsoever. I never went into ketosis either (never stopped eating
vegies).

----- Original Message -----
From: "marengo"
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet.low-carb
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:35 AM
Subject: Has just low-carb ever worked for anybody?


katp wrote:

|
| I have just watched the Horizon documentary this week (it only screened
in
| NZ on Tues) and I'm coming quickly to agreeing with the points you're
| making. I don't think that Atkins was being deliberately deceptive - the
| thinking on 'protein' being the single most important factor in
| suppressing appetite in low-carbers was something the scientists were
| just starting to report on when Atkins passed away (or that is what I
| understood from the closing words of the doco).
|
Perhaps for
| me the high protein/low calorie thing is going to work for me......but I
| shall wait and see.
|
| Kath


You obviously have not even read Atkins' book(s).

Atkins is NOT a "high-protein diet," nor does he say that "protein is the
single most important factor in suppressing appetite in low-carbers."
These are your words, not his, and you obviously have not even read his
book. It's fat that is the appetite suppressant.

Atkins is a high-fat/moderate protein/low carb way of eating, and it is
fat -- not protein -- that is the single most important factor in appetite
suppresssion on the plan (not protein).

If you're going to invent your own version of a low-carb way of eating
that
does not work, please identify it as such ... and don't falsely blame a
plan
that works with thousands of people that you obviously know little about,
much less are following.

Please Read Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution thoroughly, study and follow
his
plan exactly as laid out, then come back here in 6 weeks and post again.
Tell us about your progress then -- hopefully with more knowldege of what
you are talking about instead of spewing made-up information based on
hearsay.
--
Peter
270/227/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo


With all due respect I think you should read my post carefully (and btw I
HAVE read the book from cover to cover). I have also viewed the documentary.
I am sure you are aware of it - here is a transcript:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...instrans.shtml

I was merely suggesting that I think that the documentary's analysis of
Atkins seems to point to the high protein factor. That protein suppresses
appetite makes more sense to me.

Here's a snippet from some doctors...

Dr ERIC WESTMAN: The idea that you can eat certain foods and that it
suppresses your appetite is a breakthrough, this is, this is huge.

Dr SUSAN JEBB: What's absolutely true is that people who consume large
amounts of protein seem to feel fuller quicker than people who consume
similar amounts of calories as fat.

Dr ERIC WESTMAN: There's some chemical change that's going on there, we just
don't understand, but it's going to be very important to learn this.

NARRATOR: At the time of (Atkins') death it was starting to become clear how
the diet might work, but Dr Atkins may never have realised the extent to
which protein controls appetite. However even though it is now clear that
the diet can help you lose weight the jury is still out on how it affects
your health.


***********

That was what I was getting at........I was not disputing the holy grail of
Atkins.

I do know that you have had great success on Atkins/Low Carb and I don't
dispute that you have had more experience than I. I still maintain that if I
was to eat 2000+ calories a day on Low Carb I wouldn't have much of a chance
of losing anything. I need to gauge my calorie intake - I can't sustain
weight loss on low carb alone. It is only my opinion and only my experience
thus far...and only my initial feelings. I wasn't proclaiming my ideas as
law - just responding to the OP.

As a long term low-carber and obviously successful at what you do, I would
have thought you'd know better than to talk down to people who are just
starting out.



Pax

Kath

"katp" wrote in message ...

----- Original Message -----
From: "marengo"
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet.low-carb
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:35 AM
Subject: Has just low-carb ever worked for anybody?


katp wrote:

|
| I have just watched the Horizon documentary this week (it only
screened
in
| NZ on Tues) and I'm coming quickly to agreeing with the points you're
| making. I don't think that Atkins was being deliberately deceptive -
the
| thinking on 'protein' being the single most important factor in
| suppressing appetite in low-carbers was something the scientists were
| just starting to report on when Atkins passed away (or that is what I
| understood from the closing words of the doco).
|
Perhaps for
| me the high protein/low calorie thing is going to work for me......but
I
| shall wait and see.
|
| Kath


You obviously have not even read Atkins' book(s).

Atkins is NOT a "high-protein diet," nor does he say that "protein is
the
single most important factor in suppressing appetite in low-carbers."
These are your words, not his, and you obviously have not even read his
book. It's fat that is the appetite suppressant.

Atkins is a high-fat/moderate protein/low carb way of eating, and it is
fat -- not protein -- that is the single most important factor in
appetite
suppresssion on the plan (not protein).

If you're going to invent your own version of a low-carb way of eating
that
does not work, please identify it as such ... and don't falsely blame a
plan
that works with thousands of people that you obviously know little
about,
much less are following.

Please Read Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution thoroughly, study and follow
his
plan exactly as laid out, then come back here in 6 weeks and post
again.
Tell us about your progress then -- hopefully with more knowldege of
what
you are talking about instead of spewing made-up information based on
hearsay.
--
Peter
270/227/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo


With all due respect I think you should read my post carefully (and btw
I
HAVE read the book from cover to cover). I have also viewed the
documentary.
I am sure you are aware of it - here is a transcript:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...instrans.shtml

I was merely suggesting that I think that the documentary's analysis of
Atkins seems to point to the high protein factor. That protein suppresses
appetite makes more sense to me.

Here's a snippet from some doctors...

Dr ERIC WESTMAN: The idea that you can eat certain foods and that it
suppresses your appetite is a breakthrough, this is, this is huge.

Dr SUSAN JEBB: What's absolutely true is that people who consume large
amounts of protein seem to feel fuller quicker than people who consume
similar amounts of calories as fat.

Dr ERIC WESTMAN: There's some chemical change that's going on there, we
just
don't understand, but it's going to be very important to learn this.

NARRATOR: At the time of (Atkins') death it was starting to become clear
how
the diet might work, but Dr Atkins may never have realised the extent to
which protein controls appetite. However even though it is now clear that
the diet can help you lose weight the jury is still out on how it affects
your health.


***********

That was what I was getting at........I was not disputing the holy grail
of
Atkins.

I do know that you have had great success on Atkins/Low Carb and I don't
dispute that you have had more experience than I. I still maintain that if
I
was to eat 2000+ calories a day on Low Carb I wouldn't have much of a
chance
of losing anything. I need to gauge my calorie intake - I can't sustain
weight loss on low carb alone. It is only my opinion and only my
experience
thus far...and only my initial feelings. I wasn't proclaiming my ideas as
law - just responding to the OP.

As a long term low-carber and obviously successful at what you do, I
would
have thought you'd know better than to talk down to people who are just
starting out.



Pax

Kath

And just to clarify my thinking for you - I believe that I eat less on
Atkins because of the low-carb and greater amounts of protein. I am
satiated more on Atkins than any other diet because of this. I'm not
convinced it's the fat quotient...I'm more of the mind that I eat less
calories by accident because I'm just feeling great on the lowcarb. I think
quantity has a part to play......it may not be the be all and end all...but
surely it's part of it.

I'm not sure whether it's protein, fat or lack of insulin spike that
causes reduced desire to eat. I personally think it's the latter. I've
had high protein meals (i.e., a whey protein shake) and high fat meals and
still been hungry afterwards. In fact, I'll eat two eggs, a slice of
cheese, and some type of meat before I drive to work and be hungry when I
get to work (an hour later). I think it's a stable blood sugar level that
provides the overall reduced desire to eat. When I'm eating low carb, I
never have a blood sugar/insulin spike.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

"Bob in CT" wrote in message
news

I'm not sure whether it's protein, fat or lack of insulin spike that
causes reduced desire to eat. I personally think it's the latter. I've
had high protein meals (i.e., a whey protein shake) and high fat meals and
still been hungry afterwards. In fact, I'll eat two eggs, a slice of
cheese, and some type of meat before I drive to work and be hungry when I
get to work (an hour later). I think it's a stable blood sugar level that
provides the overall reduced desire to eat. When I'm eating low carb, I
never have a blood sugar/insulin spike.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

That certainly makes sense to me. I do believe the low carbs are controlling
my desire to eat sugary and floury things. I don't believe it's just the
protein that's stopping those cravings.

Doug Lerner wrote:

Most of us, me included, eventually seem to arrive at the conclusion that
we need to watch calories in order to lose weight very long term (beyond
the quick loss you get from just watching carbs the first 6 months or so).

I use low-carb to help reduce hunger and to keep my blood sugar under
control. It has benefits beyond weight loss.

I am curious, though. Is there anybody in the world who has ever gone from
very obese (say verging on or past 300 lb) to completely normal goal
weight by JUST reducing carbs and not minding calories at all?

Are plans, like Atkins, being deceptive when they talk about ketosis?

doug
I started out at 300lbs (wasnt very obese just a very large man hehehe) and
am now at 250 which is a very comfortable weight for me all done by low
carbing only. Ate all i wanted but kept carbs low. Was actually very easy..

Bob in CT wrote:
:: I'm not sure whether it's protein, fat or lack of insulin spike that
:: causes reduced desire to eat. I personally think it's the latter.
:: I've had high protein meals (i.e., a whey protein shake) and high
:: fat meals and still been hungry afterwards. In fact, I'll eat two
:: eggs, a slice of cheese, and some type of meat before I drive to
:: work and be hungry when I get to work (an hour later). I think it's
:: a stable blood sugar level that provides the overall reduced desire
:: to eat. When I'm eating low carb, I never have a blood
:: sugar/insulin spike.

this seems to match up with my experience....I've had high protein days, and
high fat days, but the thing in common with both of them as the fat that the
carbs were low, and for me, that seems to be the main key to controlling my
appetite. I do think that overall I'm happier with higher proportions of
protein than with higher proportions of fat, BTW. For me, high protein/low
carb works better and is more filling than high fat/low carb. I think that
probably because I can eat a greater volume of food with high protien/low
carb than with high fat/low carb, and since I like to eat, I'm happier with
more food, in general.

Just my observations relative to me.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:12:42 -0000, "~{}~HäñK~{}~"
announced in front of God and everybody:

I agree with the horizon programme. If you stop eating fruit/pasta/rice and
replace it with heavy cream whipped up with splenda then you have to be
kidding yourself if you think weight loss will follow.

Well, probably not if that's *all* you eat. But most folks -- even the
deluded ones -- seem to have a slightly more varied diet than that.

I did atkins for a year, lost 42lbs, reached target, but mainly because the
diet controlled my appetite well, and the strict rules mean you cant even
entertain the idea of eating junk food. The effect on my blood sugar and
mood has been great and my colesterol went down to 4.4, its great to see
that eggs have become a good food again with little effect on colesterol,
the amount I have eaten, its a big relief.

That's great! Good for you!

A load of these "Jello cheese cake with macadamia nut base recipe" posts
make me lol, or pork rinds with splenda make a great snack, urghh they just
aint getting the point.

Really. What then, would be "the point?"

A lot of people just need to restrict calories, and LC does that for
them nicely. But others are insulin resistant, even diabetic, and
don't process carbohydrates the same way as non-LC people. For them
it's not about calories, but about carbohydrates. Those of us who are
IR find we can lose and maintain on a higher calorie intake than
eating any other way, and it's a lifelong change, not a short-term
diet. A lifelong change that may occasionally involve eating
sugar-free cheesecake (I'll refrain from commenting on
Splenda-sweetened pork rinds, a concept I personally find horrifying.)

Low-carb is *not* a calorie restrictive diet -- even if it can be used
as one. It's a carbohydrate restrictive diet, and that's why it works
so well for many people who've never had success on calorie
restrictive plans.

I still eat LC during the week as I feel good, just eat what the hell I want
on Satudays, still lose a couple of pounds a month.

Well, again -- that's great! Good for you! Just keep in mind that your
experience isn't universal, and low-carb -- like most things in life
-- can be completely different for others.

Dawn