Another WLS tragedy

Marengo wrote:

Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra


Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T
DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Bad example. For some, driving is their only mode
of transportation. WLS is elective. Anyone can
lose weight far more safely by dieting.

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face greater
mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and exhaust other
means of weight loss first.

All that risk for something that's not guaranteed.
IMO, if you can't stick to any diet, you're not
likely to succeed long-term with WLS.

They are given psychological counseling. The patient is made aware of the
risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a simple procdure and it
involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods. People who endure WLS
know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR more information than your
second-hand anecdotal stories.

People only hear what they want to hear risks
of any surgery. You would be surprised at the
number of open-heart surgery patients who cannot
remember most of what they were told preop. If
someone told you that you had a 10% chance of
morbidity or mortality with unnecessary surgery,
would you honestly say "Wow, those are pretty good
odds", instead of thinking that you may be one of
those 10% who die?


if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just know
that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on others.
You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an informed
decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel that you
can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?


It's an opinion. Debate it with a reasonable
amount of intelligence or get over it.

Marsha/Ohio

In article .com,
" wrote:

"I hate sloppy surgeons! "

And why do you assume a bad outcome is the surgeons fault? You don't
know what the facts are. Just because some operation doesn't have the
desired outcome, doesn't mean the surgeon did anything wrong.


If her intestine is leaking, that's sloppy surgery...
Just my 2 cents! :-P

You are more than welcome to another opinion.


Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article ,
Marsha wrote:

All that risk for something that's not guaranteed.
IMO, if you can't stick to any diet, you're not
likely to succeed long-term with WLS.

applause!!!

I agree 100%!

GPS was offered to me, and I turned it down.
I felt I could benefit from drugs and diet instead.

And so far, so good...

All GPS really does is force you to eat smaller meals anyway, that and
it bypasses a part of the small intestine so you absorb fewer calories.

Thru strict dieting, I've drastically reduced the amount of food I can
eat naturally. It's interesting how the stomach will shrink on it's own?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"Marengo" wrote in message
news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...
I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't
know
if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just know
that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on others.
You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an informed
decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel that you
can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

Others have to protect us from ourselves, don'tcha know...such weighty
decisions can't be left in the hands of the person involved - better that a
stranger on usenet use try to use their perceived influence on the patient
rather than their doctor...
--
Sherry
364/315/195
low carb since 4/3/05
http://lowcarb.owly.net - NEW PICS 6/30 - NEW RECIPES 7/4

Stomachs don't shrink. I heard my doc explain it like this. Your
stomach is like a deflated balloon and it stretches to accomadate what
you put in it. Just like with gastric bypass, you overload it, you feel
uncomfortable and you may vomit. I am super careful amd measure
everything. I have vomited once and that was when I was going to have
surgery a few weeks ago. Doc wanted me to drink the green glass bottle
full of magnesium citrate. I took one swallow and up it came. You would
not believe the amount of people who vomit on a regular basis. They eat
what doesnt agree with them, they eat fat, they eat sugar, and they eat
too much. I hate to vomit and food just doesnt mean the same to me
anymore. 3 bites and the oparty is over so you make good food choices
and eat high protein foods.

My surgeon also told me the people who pay out of their own pocket,
such as I did, have far greater success as it is an investment and
didnt come free.
I eat low cal, low fat, low carb, small amounts, exercise daily and
drink at least 100 ounces of water daily while feeling no hunger,
jittery shakes from needing to eat, no fuzzy head, no blood sugar
problems, no arthritis trouble, no more sleep apnea, lower blood
pressure, great blood work and am down 125 pounds in a bit over 5
months. I am ever grateful for this tool and dare myself to **** this
one up. Life is Good!!
Laureen
410/285/180

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
In article ,
Marsha wrote:

All that risk for something that's not guaranteed.
IMO, if you can't stick to any diet, you're not
likely to succeed long-term with WLS.

applause!!!

I agree 100%!

GPS was offered to me, and I turned it down.
I felt I could benefit from drugs and diet instead.

And so far, so good...

All GPS really does is force you to eat smaller meals anyway, that and
it bypasses a part of the small intestine so you absorb fewer calories.

Thru strict dieting, I've drastically reduced the amount of food I can
eat naturally. It's interesting how the stomach will shrink on it's own?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"Marengo" wrote in message
news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...
Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra


Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE
DON'T DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face
greater mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and
exhaust other means of weight loss first. The surgery (as Laureen can
attest) is done only after detailed evaluation of the individual and
his/her situation. They are given psychological counseling. The patient
is made aware of the risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a simple
procdure and it involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods.
People who endure WLS know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR
more information than your second-hand anecdotal stories.

You might like to think this but a woman that works with DH just had WLS.
She barely met the weight requiement and her and her doctor flubbed her
height by an inch or so to make it work. Anyway - the woman decided to go
for WLS because, in her words - she "can't stick to a diet"

A week after returning to work DH thinks he saw her eating potato chips, i
don't see how that would be "allowed" but WTF do I know about it.

In my opinion this woman and her doctor are both morons.


Your post reminds me of the trolls who pop
in here once in a while and scream that whatever we do, we should NOT eat
a low-carb diet because it will cause our kidneys to fail and our ultimate
demise.

I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't
know if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just
know that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on
others. You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an
informed decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel
that you can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

--
Peter

Funny you should mention potato chips. We had a lady in our support
group mention she made a recipe with a crushed potato chip topping andd
us she polished off the crumbs in the bag and it didnt bother her. I
was like WTF?? I looked right at her and told her "C's are not low fat
low carb or nutritious. NoChippy Chips Jeannnie!!!!!"Good Gawd. Then
she complains because she has only lost 35 pounds since March.
Hello??????? The surgery wasnt frickin magic, it was a tool.
The moderator of the group called me to get her number as I have all
the member
info like that on a roster, and I think she talked to her. I was like
DUH!!!!!!!!!
Laureen

nanner wrote:
"Marengo" wrote in message
news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...
Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra


Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE
DON'T DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face
greater mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and
exhaust other means of weight loss first. The surgery (as Laureen can
attest) is done only after detailed evaluation of the individual and
his/her situation. They are given psychological counseling. The patient
is made aware of the risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a simple
procdure and it involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods.
People who endure WLS know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR
more information than your second-hand anecdotal stories.

You might like to think this but a woman that works with DH just had WLS.
She barely met the weight requiement and her and her doctor flubbed her
height by an inch or so to make it work. Anyway - the woman decided to go
for WLS because, in her words - she "can't stick to a diet"

A week after returning to work DH thinks he saw her eating potato chips, i
don't see how that would be "allowed" but WTF do I know about it.

In my opinion this woman and her doctor are both morons.


Your post reminds me of the trolls who pop
in here once in a while and scream that whatever we do, we should NOT eat
a low-carb diet because it will cause our kidneys to fail and our ultimate
demise.

I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't
know if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I just
know that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on
others. You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an
informed decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel
that you can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

--
Peter

"Laureen" wrote in message
oups.com...
Funny you should mention potato chips. We had a lady in our support
group mention she made a recipe with a crushed potato chip topping andd
us she polished off the crumbs in the bag and it didnt bother her. I
was like WTF?? I looked right at her and told her "C's are not low fat
low carb or nutritious. NoChippy Chips Jeannnie!!!!!"Good Gawd. Then
she complains because she has only lost 35 pounds since March.
Hello??????? The surgery wasnt frickin magic, it was a tool.
The moderator of the group called me to get her number as I have all
the member
info like that on a roster, and I think she talked to her. I was like
DUH!!!!!!!!!
Laureen

I'm just sad for this lady because if I understand correctly she's starting
on a hard life-long "diet" after the GPS, no?
You've done so well, it's great - but you were also very heavy and had some
very serious reasons for doing it, this woman was "borderline" and everyone
was surprised she was doing it. Crazy if you ask me!!

Can she hurt herself? If she thinks it's ok to eat garbage when no one is
looking what will happen to her?


nanner wrote:
"Marengo" wrote in message
news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...
Myra wrote:

| | To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T DO IT.
| | There are worse things than being fat - like being dead. .
| |
| | Myra


Rubbish.

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the
same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and
don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE
DON'T DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in
car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There
are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face
greater mortal danger from their morbid obesity. They recommend and
exhaust other means of weight loss first. The surgery (as Laureen can
attest) is done only after detailed evaluation of the individual and
his/her situation. They are given psychological counseling. The
patient
is made aware of the risks involved vs. the benefits. It is not a
simple
procdure and it involves months of diets afterward of no solid foods.
People who endure WLS know what they are getting into -- armed with FAR
more information than your second-hand anecdotal stories.

You might like to think this but a woman that works with DH just had WLS.
She barely met the weight requiement and her and her doctor flubbed her
height by an inch or so to make it work. Anyway - the woman decided to
go
for WLS because, in her words - she "can't stick to a diet"

A week after returning to work DH thinks he saw her eating potato chips,
i
don't see how that would be "allowed" but WTF do I know about it.

In my opinion this woman and her doctor are both morons.


Your post reminds me of the trolls who pop
in here once in a while and scream that whatever we do, we should NOT
eat
a low-carb diet because it will cause our kidneys to fail and our
ultimate
demise.

I have no real personal opinion of WLS one way or the other, and don't
know if I could or would endure it myself whatever the situation. I
just
know that I hate when people try to foist their ignorance and dogma on
others. You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an
informed decision about something so important? Who are you that you
feel
that you can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

--
Peter

On 10 Jul 2005 10:02:12 -0700, wrote:

It's hardly representative, but I have two clients in my
psychotherapy caseload who have had gastric bypass or whatever, and
both have had complications. Both have been in and out of the hospital
because of it, and one of the complications included (ahem) fecal
evacuation from the mouth.

If I recall my 11th grade biology teacher correctly, I think that's
called reverse perastalsis [sp?].

Yes, very gross.

When I had my plastic surgery consult last month, the doctor told me
he hates WLS with a passion, and the 5-year mortality rate is still
close to 30%.

Myra

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:39:46 -0400, "Marengo"
wrote:

One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and give the same
grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or not, there are some
intelligent folks on this NG who actually think for themselves and don't
fall for these sophomoric scare tactics.

Peter - you know I know that, and that's why I don't mention names
here. I don't do that because I made a promise to you-know-who not
to. Nevertheless, you and everyone else here knows what I think of
WLS, and I'm not going to keep quiet about it when things like this
happen. I understand whom you're trying to protect, but I'm not
attacking her and never was.

And being able to think for yourself has NOTHING to do with what I
posted. All I was doing was putting out information, which is what
people who think for themselves usually go looking for!

Using your logic, one could also say:
"- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you - PLEASE DON'T
DO IT because many people are horribly mutilated and killed in car
accidents --You can walk and get there safely without driving. There are
worse things than being late -- like being dead."

If the day you got your driver's liense you were told that there was a
better than 50% chance that you would completely unlearn how to drive
in three to five years, and that you had a 30% chance of being DEAD
from driving within five years, I would probably be against driving
and would discourage other people from driving.

Your analogy is completely flawed. Pick another one and maybe you'll
be more persuasive.

Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients who face greater
mortal danger from their morbid obesity.

No, they don't! They recommend it to people who have no business
having it. They recommend it because it's a ****ing money maker.
They recommend it to people who weigh what I weigh right now, which is
239.

I was a very lucky person because when I weighed over 400 pounds (like
the person I'm not going to mention), my doctor - an internist -
recommended low carbing and NOT gastric bypass surgery. He felt and
feels it's a barbaric mutilation of what is usually a perfectly
healthy digestive system. It's not the stomach size that's the
problem - it's what you put in it. Simple as that. And people who
have WLS are FORCED into the low carb lifestyle that, for whatever
reason, they couldn't handle without being subjected to this
mutilation.

You don't think I wasn't really sick? I had fluid in my legs, I
couldn't walk more than 20 feet without excruciating pain. I had acid
reflux and had to sleep sitting up. I had episodes of sleep apnea. I
had developed fatty liver disease. I became diabetic. I could barely
fit in my car.

There is no ground anyone who has WLS has walked on that I haven't
stomped all over first.

It was really simple for me, Peter - I wanted to live more than I
wanted the next potato.

Your post reminds me of the trolls who pop
in here once in a while and scream that whatever we do, we should NOT eat a
low-carb diet because it will cause our kidneys to fail and our ultimate
demise.

If you think I'm acting like a troll., then pop me in your killfile.
Unless my memory is really ****ty, you used to back me up on this
before you-know-who had her surgery. You're trying to protect her,
and I appreciate that. I am NOT attacking her, and she knows that.
We've had our private e-mail exchange over this, to which you were not
privy, and I made a promise not to mention her name when I go on my
WLS rants, and I have kept my word. Still, that doesn't mean I'm
never going to talk about WLS again - that was never part of what I
promised.

You'd rather that someone listen to your hysteria than make an informed
decision about something so important? Who are you that you feel that you
can judge others' desicions without even knowing them?

That you accuse me of being hysterical is, well, hysterical. You
don't think I've never thought about WLS for myself? I assure you I
did, and I researched it very carefully, and after having done that
research, I came to the logical conclusion that it is butchery of a
vital system of the human anatomy, that the long term success rate is
questionable, and the long-term mortality rate is appallingly high.

Myra