entemans, sugar, "treats" being "good" and "fat people"

I'm finding this thread vaguely troubling.

I believe we each need to find what works for us, so I tend to not like "you
must" statements. On the other hand, except for the tone, I completely agreed
with everything the OP said.

There is an article in the April edition of Real Simple magazine that,
essentially, advocates a low-carb, sugar-free diet not for weight loss, but for
general health. I really liked that a lot. And ideally, everyone here will
someday reach their goal weight and will be eating for general health, not
weight loss. The low-carb WOE should still be the best option then.

Almost every "bad" calorie I used to eat was accompanied by sugar, because I
was addicted to pastries. Pastries = sugar, trans-fats, and flour. Ick. My
own option as I lose weight is to stay away from substitutes to the extent
possible. I'm even trying to limit my Splenda intake. But if you can't or
don't want to do that and find something else that works for you, go with what
works. I'm just too skeptical to trust the substitutes and low-carb foods. I
don't want to think "sweets" of any kind, because then I'll make excuses for
myself down the road and may resume eating sugar. YMMV.

My first week on low-carb, I was completely flummoxed at meal time. One day, I
even skipped lunch because I couldn't figure out what to eat. A change in
eating habits requires some thought, which should have been obvious but wasn't.
But that thinking is part of the commitment to being healthier, whether I'm
losing weight or at goal weight.

I don't know if any of that makes sense or not, but this whole process is
proving to be far more multi-faceted and complex than I imagined it would be.
But the payoff should be enormous in terms of better health, which I think was
underlying the original post. Substitutes are a crutch; if you can't do
without them, that's your decision, but they might prove self-defeating in the
long run.
Daria
166/148/140
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

well stay off it just till you lose the weight. after that those things are
FINE so long as you eat them reasonably.

having carrots sourdough bread etc.. etc.. is fine

even candy is fine. 50 years ago it was unheard of to have candy daily or
even weekly or monthly. it was also unheard of to have it in the quantity
that we have it nowadays.

its all a matter of quantity (once you lose the weight that is when your fat
you have to make sacrifices to get rid of the weight)

I do not plan on using this way of eating for the rest of my life. if things
go as I plan another 1. to 1.5 years. thats it.

then I plan to start eating other foods again but I will carefully and
visciously watch the amount quantity and frequency.

I love my pasta. and oodles andnoodles soup. I love my fruit. bread I dont
miss all that much so its not a big thing to me. I love carrots. potatoes
are ok.

I will enjoy them. responsibly. for now I am paying the price of not being
responsible. I starts this diet at 415 pounds.

I am now at 341 pounds. its well worth the temporary loss of those food
items to compensate for my over abuse of them previously in type and
quantity.

now I am paying the price for those mistakes. its worth it to lose the
weight trust me :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/


"Bear" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Even though I think this person is a troll, I can't help but wonder if
maybe
she's right. If so I will never make it long term on this WOE.
Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot imagine going for the rest of my life
without
sourdough bread, carrots, peas, birhday cake (on birthday's), watermelon
or
corn on the cob. People 30 years ago or so did not have the kind of weight
problems we have today, in the numbers we have today. But they ate all of
those things and more. What's the answer here? Are others here ready to
give
up all those things, not in just the short term, but forever? Is that
what's
neccessary? I find that very discouraging. I don't know that it would be
worth it to me. I don't want to be 350 pounds, but I also don't want to
live
like a monk. Giving up every enjoyable treat so that I can have a 38
waist.
I don't know if I'm rationalizing or what. I don't really have an
uncontrolable urge to run out and start wolfing down high carb foods.
Maybe
JC was right when he got ****ed off at me and said I would always be fat.
I'm very confused today.
--
Bear
Grrrrrrrrrrrr )
297/264.5/210
http://home.earthlink.net/~polarbear50/







"katie k" wrote in message
om...
Interesting reading on the thread about the LC "goodies"... reading
the group here it becomes clear that a few change forever and most
"try to change" and cling to their old ways and ideas.

5 or 6 who seem to have eliminated sugar who I know here at school
have had longer term success than the ones who have a "small portion"
of their "treats" and time and time again speak on how they "cheated"
or "weren't "good".

Talking to my classmates and friends (and watching the support groups
of other poor behaviors) it becomes clear that while with food you
can't simply stop eating (like you can smoking) you can stop eating
the foods that aren't good for you... even with family and friends
observing and trying to influence your actions...

But there does seem to be a secret that is beyond Atkins (at least
after induction) and that seems to be ELIMINATION OF SUGAR...
overweight people don't have a "normal" reaction to it and then when
they put it back even in moderation after induction many don't really
stay on the losing trend...

That's why so many fear even going off of induction, and then before
you know it they quit.. so perhaps the snswer is:

Eliminate sugars of all types (fruit, breads, milks, etc)...

I have 2 suitemates who did it and don't have the cravings they
had...and yes, they are taking vitamins to make up for the lack of
certain things a body needs.

Just my opinion, but I got a feeling that those who keep "celebrating"
LC fast food and LC "treats" ain't goin' anywhere but back up on the
scale...think of it as a MEDICAL not a DIET issue: sugar in your
system doesn't work like it does for thin people...for some reason it
just hangs around then gives you both mental and physical cravings for
the beast to be fed again...

Time for SPRING BREAK...

Remember: no excuses... just try a few weeks with no sugars of any
sort (or as little as you can)...you just might change your life!

BYEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

Katie K

This is the same person who has been posting JC and the Queen taunts for a
month now. Just becuase she posts something you like doesn't change my
opinion of her.
And if you think a 38 waist is huge, you've got a problem. Not everyone
thinks being skinny is a valuable asset. I like being a big man. I have no
desire to look anything like you.



"Ignoramus16930" wrote in message
...
In article k.net, Bear
wrote:

Even though I think this person is a troll,

That was quite possibly the best written post of the day, which was
100% on topic. How can you call it a troll?

I can't help but wonder if maybe she's right. If so I will never
make it long term on this WOE. Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot
imagine going for the rest of my life without sourdough bread,
carrots, peas, birhday cake (on birthday's), watermelon or corn on
the cob.

I am not sure how eating no sugar implies no corn on the cob,
myself. You are going too far. I personally eat no sweetened foods, no
matter what the sweetener. I have had reasonable success as I have
maintained my weight loss for 6 months with no major struggles.

I eat sourdough bread, carrots, peas, NO birthday cake on anyone's
birthday, and corn -- in moderation.

People 30 years ago or so did not have the kind of weight
problems we have today, in the numbers we have today. But they ate
all of those things and more.

many people who were slim 30 years ago are now fat. it takes time to
get fat.

What's the answer here? Are others
here ready to give up all those things, not in just the short term,
but forever? Is that what's neccessary? I find that very
discouraging. I don't know that it would be worth it to me. I don't
want to be 350 pounds, but I also don't want to live like a
monk.

try not to depend on mouth sensation too much, and like I said, you
are overgeneralizing the OP's suggestions.

A mild calorie restriction is likely to make all foods taste
delicious.

Giving up every enjoyable treat so that I can have a 38 waist.

38 waist?????????????????????/

I don't know if I'm rationalizing or what. I don't really have an
uncontrolable urge to run out and start wolfing down high carb
foods. Maybe JC was right when he got ****ed off at me and said I
would always be fat. I'm very confused today.

Maybe he was right. Life is cruel. If you value mouth sensation over
38 inch waist (which is a huge waist), maybe you will not have even 38
inch waist.

i

You just said it again in a later post. You can never eat wheat products
again. I know you've said before that you'll never eat bread again. Is never
again different from the rest of your life?
--
Bear
Grrrrrrrrrrrr )
297/264.5/210
http://home.earthlink.net/~polarbear50/

"Crafting Mom" wrote in message
...
Bear wrote:
.
Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot imagine going for the rest of my life
without sourdough bread, carrots, peas, birhday cake (on birthday's),
watermelon or corn on the cob.

Did I say "rest of my life?"....
wow, amazing I don't even have to say something to have said it.
I just said that going without sweet things for a sustained period of
time helped my taste buds to adjust....
CM (who does eat carrots and peas)

Thanks. I enjoyed reading about your experience. I'll take it to heart.
--
Bear
Grrrrrrrrrrrr )
297/264.5/210
http://home.earthlink.net/~polarbear50/



"TurtleBeachGal" wrote in message
...

Bear,

Don't be confused. This is an individual path and you will find what will
work
for you.

There are a lot of low carb diet nazi's on this board that think there is
only
ONE way to low carb and it's their way. Any other way will insure failure.
It's not true.

The important thing is to know yourself and to learn what will work for
you.

I'm with you. I see no good reason to have to give up all treats forever
and
ever.
Can they be a regular part of my food plan? NO!
Can I have a cupcake or a slice of cake on my birthday? Yes. Can I have a
whole
cake in the house? Nope... cause I"ll eat it. Will I buy a cake and
then
send it home with other people who can eat it? yes.

Usually, for my birthday or a special event, I'd rather treat myself to a
good
seafood dinner than a piece of cake but every rare once in a while the
chocolate cake sounds better. .... it works for me.

I don't keep junk food in the house and I rarely want it. And to be
honest,
even when I'm wanting "junk" the stuff that is available isn't worth it.
Now
maybe if it was really excellent I'd be more willing to make an exception
but
even then it would be exactly that... a rare exception.

Eating one slice of birthday cake on a "rare" occassion isn't going to
make you
fat

If you make those occassions the rule rather than the exception then
you're
courting failure.
I have so many birthday's to celebrate in the month of september that I
could
easily gain 20#s so I choose to eat a good low carb mean before going to
the
celebration so I'm not hungry and easily tempted.
Perhaps if I'm feeling a bit depressed and feeling the need to self
medicate
with food instead of going for chocolate cake I'll pick up some shrimp or
try
one of the great recipes that I've gotten off of this board. I'll get my
"treat", feel better and not have sabotaged myself.

For me I can't have milk in the house. I can easily drink 1/2 a gallon or
more
daily.
I'll have the low carb "dairy beverage" in the house on occassion but
dont'
feel like I can have it in here all the time. For some people milk etc is
not
an issue and it will go bad in their house.
It's all individual.
I appreciate having lower carb versions of foods like bread available but
once
again you have to know yourself. I can have regular super market lower
carb
bread in the house without a problem. My mom gave me a loaf of Great
Harvest
Breads low carb white bread (5 grams per slice) and it was too good. LOL.
I
won't have it in my house on a regular basis. I go through it way too
fast.

It's all a learning process. Stick to the basics and real food (low carb)
and
you'll do great.
The world will not come to an end if you have the occassional treat.
Ignore the food police (both low fat and low carb versions of the food
nazi's).
There are a lot of people in the world who enjoy spewing their opinion out
for
all to see and try to make people who don't agree feel bad. Don't fall for
it.
They aren't people you'd want to associate with anyway.

JC was not right when he said you would always be fat unless you let him
be.
Prove him wrong. You've already done a great job. You know how. It's just
a
matter of implementing it on a daily basis. Sort of like an alcoholic. You
just
do it now and don't put stumbling blocks in your way.

Personally, I think fitting into my lower size jeans and not having the
triple
by-pass that I was destined for "tastes" a lot better than most high carb
treats. It doesn't however, keep me in a straight jacket. I can live my
life,
make my choices and live with the consequences. The occassional treat
doesn't
immediately throw me into jeans two sizes larger or send my triglycerides
sky
high. I've found what works for me. I"m happy. I don't really care what
anyone
else thinks. I hope you can find that same thing.

Good luck!!

Susan
aka turtlebeachgal







Even though I think this person is a troll, I can't help but wonder if
maybe
she's right. If so I will never make it long term on this WOE.
Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot imagine going for the rest of my life
without
sourdough bread, carrots, peas, birhday cake (on birthday's), watermelon
or
corn on the cob. People 30 years ago or so did not have the kind of
weight
problems we have today, in the numbers we have today. But they ate all of
those things and more.

They also tended to do a lot more physical labor.




What's the answer here? Are others here ready to give
up all those things, not in just the short term, but forever? Is that
what's
neccessary? I find that very discouraging. I don't know that it would be
worth it to me. I don't want to be 350 pounds, but I also don't want to
live
like a monk. Giving up every enjoyable treat so that I can have a 38
waist.
I don't know if I'm rationalizing or what. I don't really have an
uncontrolable urge to run out and start wolfing down high carb foods.
Maybe
JC was right when he got ****ed off at me and said I would always be fat.
I'm very confused today.

Bear wrote:

You just said it again in a later post. You can never eat wheat products
again. I know you've said before that you'll never eat bread again. Is
never again different from the rest of your life?

I was responding to THIS.....

Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot imagine going for the rest of my life
without sourdough bread, carrots, peas, birhday cake (on birthday's),
watermelon or corn on the cob.

I still (on occasion) *do* eat carrots, peas, watermelon, or corn on
the cob. I simply choose not to eat foods (like bread) which do harm
to *my* body, as in a food sensitivity. I was correcting the errors
in the above paragraph, that is all.

My response to the original post did not mention going without
bread for the rest of my life. Here is that post: Note that in the
following post I did not say "rest of my life", nor did I mention the
bread.

[begin quote]

PJx wrote:

On 13 Mar 2004 05:48:17 -0800, (katie k) wrote:

Remember: no excuses... just try a few weeks with no sugars of any
sort (or as little as you can)...you just might change your life!

BYEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

Katie K

**How*about*the*sugar*in*berries?***Carrots?**... .

I've actually gone without berries, carrots, artificial sweeteners,
or sugar of any description, OR junky foods with additives, for
months and months.**By*the*time*I*finally*did*start*adding*
blueberries back, they tasted like a major sugar blast!**
I used to think blueberries were "mildly sweet" but after
re-conditioning my body to like the food it's meant to like, it
was to me what snickers bars are to most people.

By the time my body isn't constantly drip-fed sweet things on a
daily basis the taste buds adjust accordingly.**It*was*getting*to*
the point where cucumbers tasted extremely sweet to me.

People are often afraid to see what their taste buds will do when
left to their own natural devices.**It's*understandable.**The*idea*
that a cucumber could end up tasting like watermelon used to, was
once one I scoffed at, myself.**Until*I*tried*it,*seriously,*on*myself.

CM
[end quote]

Crafting Mom burbled across the ether:
Bear wrote:

You just said it again in a later post. You can never eat wheat
products again.

She only said it once. You're conflating two different topics, one
of choice, and one of necessity.


I know you've said before that you'll never eat
bread again. Is never again different from the rest of your life?

In the case of wheat products, no. In the case of other foods, she eats
them far less often and in lesser amounts, making them a treat rather
than a staple.

I was responding to THIS.....

Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot imagine going for the rest of my life
without sourdough bread, carrots, peas, birhday cake (on birthday's),
watermelon or corn on the cob.

I still (on occasion) *do* eat carrots, peas, watermelon, or corn on
the cob. I simply choose not to eat foods (like bread) which do harm
to *my* body, as in a food sensitivity. I was correcting the errors
in the above paragraph, that is all.

In other words, yes, you will never eat bread again for the rest of your
life. That was what Bear asked. It, however is NOT because of a diet
choice, but because you have a food sensitivity. Celiac disease, yes?

My response to the original post did not mention going without
bread for the rest of my life. Here is that post: Note that in the
following post I did not say "rest of my life", nor did I mention the
bread.

That's true. Did I help clear that up?

--
revek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June
2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please
Now and then an innocent man is sent to legislature. - Kin Hubbard

revek wrote:

Crafting Mom burbled across the ether:
Bear wrote:

You just said it again in a later post. You can never eat wheat
products again.

She only said it once. You're conflating two different topics, one
of choice, and one of necessity.


I know you've said before that you'll never eat
bread again. Is never again different from the rest of your life?

In the case of wheat products, no. In the case of other foods, she eats
them far less often and in lesser amounts, making them a treat rather
than a staple.

Correct.

I was responding to THIS.....

Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot imagine going for the rest of my life
without sourdough bread, carrots, peas, birhday cake (on birthday's),
watermelon or corn on the cob.

I still (on occasion) *do* eat carrots, peas, watermelon, or corn on
the cob. I simply choose not to eat foods (like bread) which do harm
to *my* body, as in a food sensitivity. I was correcting the errors
in the above paragraph, that is all.

In other words, yes, you will never eat bread again for the rest of your
life. That was what Bear asked. It, however is NOT because of a diet
choice, but because you have a food sensitivity. Celiac disease, yes?

Not celiac, but a different sensitivity.


My response to the original post did not mention going without
bread for the rest of my life. Here is that post: Note that in the
following post I did not say "rest of my life", nor did I mention the
bread.

That's true. Did I help clear that up?

Yes. Thanks revek.

A lot of people can't eat wheat products, it's a very common allergen. I
had actually pretty much given up wheat before I started low carbing. My
daughter who is a vegetarian plus occasional fish or other seafood finds
that if she eats much wheat she has backaches.

In link.net,
Bear stated
| You just said it again in a later post. You can never eat wheat
| products again. I know you've said before that you'll never eat bread
| again. Is never again different from the rest of your life?
| --
| Bear
| Grrrrrrrrrrrr )
| 297/264.5/210
| http://home.earthlink.net/~polarbear50/
|
| "Crafting Mom" wrote in message
| ...
|| Bear wrote:
|| .
||| Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot imagine going for the rest of my life
||| without sourdough bread, carrots, peas, birhday cake (on
||| birthday's), watermelon or corn on the cob.
||
|| Did I say "rest of my life?"....
|| wow, amazing I don't even have to say something to have said it.
|| I just said that going without sweet things for a sustained period of
|| time helped my taste buds to adjust....
|| CM (who does eat carrots and peas)

You've said it other posts. You may not remember but you said that you woule
never eat bread again. I'm not going to bother googleing it, but you said it
to Jenny.
--
Bear
Grrrrrrrrrrrr )
297/264.5/210
http://home.earthlink.net/~polarbear50/

"Crafting Mom" wrote in message
...
Bear wrote:

You just said it again in a later post. You can never eat wheat products
again. I know you've said before that you'll never eat bread again. Is
never again different from the rest of your life?

I was responding to THIS.....

Unlike Crafting Mom, I cannot imagine going for the rest of my life
without sourdough bread, carrots, peas, birhday cake (on birthday's),
watermelon or corn on the cob.

I still (on occasion) *do* eat carrots, peas, watermelon, or corn on
the cob. I simply choose not to eat foods (like bread) which do harm
to *my* body, as in a food sensitivity. I was correcting the errors
in the above paragraph, that is all.

My response to the original post did not mention going without
bread for the rest of my life. Here is that post: Note that in the
following post I did not say "rest of my life", nor did I mention the
bread.

[begin quote]

PJx wrote:

On 13 Mar 2004 05:48:17 -0800, (katie k) wrote:

Remember: no excuses... just try a few weeks with no sugars of any
sort (or as little as you can)...you just might change your life!

BYEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

Katie K

How about the sugar in berries? Carrots? ....

I've actually gone without berries, carrots, artificial sweeteners,
or sugar of any description, OR junky foods with additives, for
months and months. By the time I finally did start adding
blueberries back, they tasted like a major sugar blast!
I used to think blueberries were "mildly sweet" but after
re-conditioning my body to like the food it's meant to like, it
was to me what snickers bars are to most people.

By the time my body isn't constantly drip-fed sweet things on a
daily basis the taste buds adjust accordingly. It was getting to
the point where cucumbers tasted extremely sweet to me.

People are often afraid to see what their taste buds will do when
left to their own natural devices. It's understandable. The idea
that a cucumber could end up tasting like watermelon used to, was
once one I scoffed at, myself. Until I tried it, seriously, on myself.

CM
[end quote]