Back from being lost at sea (long report)

On 9/15/04 11:43 AM, in article , "Roger
Zoul" wrote:

Doug Lerner wrote:
|| I'll check that out. You dip the strips into your blood or something
|| like that? ugh!
||

We've discussed this in the past, haven't we? I thought I volunteered to
buy some strips and send them to you. Then, as I recall, you said you had a
sister who could do that. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

I don't recall that. Thanks for the offer though. I do have a sister who
could buy it for me, so you may be right!

doug

On 9/15/04 11:49 AM, in article , "Kevin
Stevens" wrote:

Like shrimp, chicken, and salmon? I can do that the rest of my life, no
problem. Last night ate at Outback. Grilled shrimp on the barbie,
caesar salad, grilled salmon with broccoli and butter. Lunch was El
Pollo Loco 4-piece chicken meal. Breakfast was a couple of fried eggs
topped with cheese. Finished off with some olives before bed.

That's (checking Fitday results) 14 gram carbs (actually less since I
didn't subtract the fiber out of the broccoli), 1257 calories, 64%
calories from fat.


Some calorie counts:

2 eggs: 160

fried (1T butter): 100

2 slices processed cheese: 100

Outback foods: They don't provide calorie counts, but lets say 800 calories,
including butter, assuming you didn't add bread

El Pollo Loco: They have an online calculator. I don't know which 2 sides
you chose, so I chose low-cal ones: 1067

At least 2127 calories

I could do this on my diet, but I think it's definitely much higher than
1257 calories!

doug

On 9/15/04 11:49 AM, in article , "Kevin
Stevens" wrote:

Like shrimp, chicken, and salmon? I can do that the rest of my life, no
problem. Last night ate at Outback. Grilled shrimp on the barbie,
caesar salad, grilled salmon with broccoli and butter. Lunch was El
Pollo Loco 4-piece chicken meal. Breakfast was a couple of fried eggs
topped with cheese. Finished off with some olives before bed.

That's (checking Fitday results) 14 gram carbs (actually less since I
didn't subtract the fiber out of the broccoli), 1257 calories, 64%
calories from fat.


Some calorie counts:

2 eggs: 160

fried (1T butter): 100

2 slices processed cheese: 100

Outback foods: They don't provide calorie counts, but lets say 800 calories,
including butter, assuming you didn't add bread

El Pollo Loco: They have an online calculator. I don't know which 2 sides
you chose, so I chose low-cal ones: 1067

At least 2127 calories

I could do this on my diet, but I think it's definitely much higher than
1257 calories!

doug

On 9/15/04 11:54 AM, in article , "Ignoramus13229"
wrote:

Does such a low carb diet have to be low cal?

To lose weight long term, I think so. At least my own body says so.

Do you think that you
could not get away with eating more calories, if you eat low carb?

No. Not according to my own data.

This assumes, of course, that all digestible carbs are counted, not
just "net carbs".

The reason for my question is that on a low carb diet, I, personally,
so far, can get away with eating more calories.

I was able to for a while too. But after six months it seems to even out to
just "a calorie is a calorie".

doug

On 9/15/04 11:54 AM, in article , "Ignoramus13229"
wrote:

Does such a low carb diet have to be low cal?

To lose weight long term, I think so. At least my own body says so.

Do you think that you
could not get away with eating more calories, if you eat low carb?

No. Not according to my own data.

This assumes, of course, that all digestible carbs are counted, not
just "net carbs".

The reason for my question is that on a low carb diet, I, personally,
so far, can get away with eating more calories.

I was able to for a while too. But after six months it seems to even out to
just "a calorie is a calorie".

doug

On 9/15/04 11:54 AM, in article , "Ignoramus13229"
wrote:

Does such a low carb diet have to be low cal?

To lose weight long term, I think so. At least my own body says so.

Do you think that you
could not get away with eating more calories, if you eat low carb?

No. Not according to my own data.

This assumes, of course, that all digestible carbs are counted, not
just "net carbs".

The reason for my question is that on a low carb diet, I, personally,
so far, can get away with eating more calories.

I was able to for a while too. But after six months it seems to even out to
just "a calorie is a calorie".

doug

Thanks for another informative note, Iggy.

I wonder which grains and added sugars I might cut out. Here is what I ate
yesterday (remember, some store options in the U.S. are not available here):

2 eggs + cottage cheese (245 cal, 5.4 carb)

sashimi (207 cal, 0 carb)

zaru soba (438 cal, 45 carb)

takebue (a processed fish snack) (169 cal, 20 carb)

blueberry yogurt (138 cal, 20 carbs) note - no sugar free yogurt available
here

small can of tomato juice for sauce (39 cal, 8 carb)

fresh fish for stew (245 cal, 0 carb)

mushrooms and green peppers chopped up for stew (40 cal, 8 carb)

small ear of corn (80 cal, 20 carb)

small microwave pasta dish (258 cal, 45 carb)

Total for day: 1988 cal, about 151 carbs)

doug

On 9/15/04 12:38 PM, in article , "Ignoramus13229"
wrote:


According to my measurements (I have spreadsheets taken over several weeks,
chopping off the first week) my body seems to use about 12 calories per
pound of weight.

So if I eat 2000 calories per day and keep my currently level of exercise, I
should eventually approach 2000/12 = 167 lb = 75 kg. That would be a BMI for
me of 24.7, which would be in the "normal" weight range.

So what's wrong with that way of thinking?

doug


there is nothing wrong with this way of thinking. That was exactly
what I did to lose weight, so it must be right g

May I suggest trying to cut out grains/starches and added sugars from
your diet, and eat pretty much everything else, within your well
chosen 2000 calorie budget?

Meat, fish, vegetables, fruits, eggs, nuts, etc etc, there is quite a
bit of variety and yet it is more suitable for a diabetic and would
likely lower your insulin levels.

Give it a thought Doug, mull it etc. There is not that many nutrients
that are naturally present in any grains that you cannot get from
elsewhere. Enriched flours have some vitamins added (such as folic
acid and niacin), but you can, as well, take an honest supplement
instead of eating the grains containing same supplements.

The B vitamins are available from meat. http://www.hoptechno.com/book29d.htm

As you said, you may limit your calories to lose weight, but without
added sugars and starches, you might be less hungry.

The key is finding what works for you...

i

Thanks for another informative note, Iggy.

I wonder which grains and added sugars I might cut out. Here is what I ate
yesterday (remember, some store options in the U.S. are not available here):

2 eggs + cottage cheese (245 cal, 5.4 carb)

sashimi (207 cal, 0 carb)

zaru soba (438 cal, 45 carb)

takebue (a processed fish snack) (169 cal, 20 carb)

blueberry yogurt (138 cal, 20 carbs) note - no sugar free yogurt available
here

small can of tomato juice for sauce (39 cal, 8 carb)

fresh fish for stew (245 cal, 0 carb)

mushrooms and green peppers chopped up for stew (40 cal, 8 carb)

small ear of corn (80 cal, 20 carb)

small microwave pasta dish (258 cal, 45 carb)

Total for day: 1988 cal, about 151 carbs)

doug

On 9/15/04 12:38 PM, in article , "Ignoramus13229"
wrote:


According to my measurements (I have spreadsheets taken over several weeks,
chopping off the first week) my body seems to use about 12 calories per
pound of weight.

So if I eat 2000 calories per day and keep my currently level of exercise, I
should eventually approach 2000/12 = 167 lb = 75 kg. That would be a BMI for
me of 24.7, which would be in the "normal" weight range.

So what's wrong with that way of thinking?

doug


there is nothing wrong with this way of thinking. That was exactly
what I did to lose weight, so it must be right g

May I suggest trying to cut out grains/starches and added sugars from
your diet, and eat pretty much everything else, within your well
chosen 2000 calorie budget?

Meat, fish, vegetables, fruits, eggs, nuts, etc etc, there is quite a
bit of variety and yet it is more suitable for a diabetic and would
likely lower your insulin levels.

Give it a thought Doug, mull it etc. There is not that many nutrients
that are naturally present in any grains that you cannot get from
elsewhere. Enriched flours have some vitamins added (such as folic
acid and niacin), but you can, as well, take an honest supplement
instead of eating the grains containing same supplements.

The B vitamins are available from meat. http://www.hoptechno.com/book29d.htm

As you said, you may limit your calories to lose weight, but without
added sugars and starches, you might be less hungry.

The key is finding what works for you...

i

In article , Doug Lerner
wrote:
But the bottom line is that with LC I tend to drift towards 116-117
kg. That means I also have to count calories. If I have to count calories
*anyway* isn't it easier to just count calories?


Well, hey, if eating high-carb foods doesn't trigger cravings or blood
sugar swings with you, then yeah, don't bother doing low-carb. I really
only do low-carb to _help_ me do lower-calorie, because carby foods make me
crave more carby foods. If I have a steak, a salad, some broccoli, and
some mashed potatoes, I will want seconds on the potatoes. And maybe
thirds. And maybe some more potatoes for a snack later that night. If I
just skip the potatoes all together, I am eating less food but I somehow
feel more full. Some people may be able to lose weight on slightly more
calories while on a low-carb diet, but if you find it easier to stick to a
low-calorie diet with more carbs in it, then that slight advantage is
probably not worth it.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

In article ,
Doug Lerner wrote:

On 9/15/04 11:49 AM, in article , "Kevin
Stevens" wrote:

Like shrimp, chicken, and salmon? I can do that the rest of my life, no
problem. Last night ate at Outback. Grilled shrimp on the barbie,
caesar salad, grilled salmon with broccoli and butter. Lunch was El
Pollo Loco 4-piece chicken meal. Breakfast was a couple of fried eggs
topped with cheese. Finished off with some olives before bed.

That's (checking Fitday results) 14 gram carbs (actually less since I
didn't subtract the fiber out of the broccoli), 1257 calories, 64%
calories from fat.


Some calorie counts:

2 eggs: 160

fried (1T butter): 100

2 slices processed cheese: 100

Outback foods: They don't provide calorie counts, but lets say 800 calories,
including butter, assuming you didn't add bread

El Pollo Loco: They have an online calculator. I don't know which 2 sides
you chose, so I chose low-cal ones: 1067

At least 2127 calories

I could do this on my diet, but I think it's definitely much higher than
1257 calories!

Well, if you're just going to guess, su

Per Fitday:

2 large fried eggs: 181 This listing includes margarine or some such
for frying, which I don't use. If I used butter, I'd count it, even
though you don't eat nearly all the butter used to fry eggs. In this
case I didn't.

I didn't use anywhere two oz of cheese, that's like a chunk. Try .5 oz,
measured. 50 cal.

Your guess for breakfast: 360 cal. Actual: 231. You're more than 50%
high.

Outback: You're guessing again. Actual consumption, numbers per Fitday:

6 grilled large shrimp: 56 cal
2 cups lettuce: 13 cal
2 tablespoons Caesar dressing: 155 cal
(No, I didn't count the bit of Parmesan on top because I looked it up
once and it's like nothing.)
Eat around the croutons.
Broccoli, raw, 1 cup: 25 cal, 5 carb. There's not a cup of broccoli
once you pick it out of the mixed veggies, but I always try to estimate
up rather than down. Same with the carbs.
1 pat butter (on the broccoli): 36 cal
8 oz salmon, raw (yield after cooking): 316 cal

Your guess: 800 cal. Actual: 601 cal. Pretty close, only 33% over.

El Pollo Loco: Your guess: 1067. Actual (add up a four-piece chicken,
which is breast, thigh, leg, wing): 476 per EPL's nutrition info.

You're over 50% high again.

Maybe your problem is that you're just a bad guesser. Do you actually
track your intake using Fitday or some similar?

KeS