About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks

On 15/05/2012 10:41 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Tue, 15 May 2012 22:22:50 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself,
and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman.

"And that goes double for people like James Warren." - Dogman


It is a constant struggle. But, of course, you know that already.

Indeed I do, James. And it's a struggle you're apparently losing.

Well, it is you that seems to be bucking established science.

Indeed I am, James. If people didn't "buck established science," we'd
still have blood-letting, pellagra, scurvi, SMON, etc., not to mention
always having to worry about sailing off the edge of the planet.

It doesn't
mean you're wrong, of course, but it is definitely not the way to bet. :

Fortunately, science isn't about permutations and combinations, it's
about The Scientific Method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Rvy-ft1bI

I certainly agree with Feynman there. But I do think the HIV-AIDS
connection has been quite well established. If it is, in fact, wrong
then I will need to see a very good experiment demonstrating it.


--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

On Tue, 15 May 2012 22:46:11 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
Fortunately, science isn't about permutations and combinations, it's
about The Scientific Method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Rvy-ft1bI

I certainly agree with Feynman there. But I do think the HIV-AIDS
connection has been quite well established.

That's because you've only heard one side. And because you're
uncurious, despite your protestations to the contrary.

If it is, in fact, wrong
then I will need to see a very good experiment demonstrating it.

Actually, all you need to do is to read Duesberg's book. But you
won't do that, of course. Because you're mostly a troll.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

On May 15, 1:11*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 9 May 2012 13:01:25 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:

[...]

There you have Dogman. *Not one little sentence from 20+ years ago.
But an entire speech where Montagnier leaves no doubt that he believes
HIV causes AIDS. *Now I'm sure you'll proceed to do what all
denialists and conspiracy nuts do. * Just ignore it and move on
to the next little snippet that you can distort to try to make your
pathetic case.

Well, thanks for answering my question, Trader. *You are indeed
stupid.

Montagnier's own words, *2009*:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQoNW7lOnT4&NR=1

Of course the obvious problem for you is that the
video doesn't show Montagnier denying that
HIV causes AIDS. What he's saying is that people that have
adequate diets, are overall healthy, etc may have a better
chance at avoiding becoming infected with HIV and getting
AIDS. That's true of most infections. If you're healthy
you're probably less likely to get measles too. That
doesn't mean that the virus that causes measles is not
the infectious agent that is responsible. Notice that he
actually says that if Africans were well fed, had improved
hygiene, etc, that then the infection rates might be
reduced to the levels seen in Western countries. And
While he talks about drugs to treat HIV and development
of a vaccine, no where does he say that the drugs
don't work or should not be used or that a vaccine
would be a waste of time because HV doesn't cause
the disease. What he is saying
is that improved nourishment in Africa could also help.
Nothing surprising there.

The sad thing here is that Montagnier lets this interviewer
who clearly has an agenda and no interest in the truth,
run the interview to get the snippets that the AIDS denialists
want. The interviewer asks him if HIV can be eliminated
in a person that is infected through diet. He responds that
he thinks it can. That is
the only shocking thing in the whole interview. And of
course the interviewer doesn't bother to even ask what
proof he has of this, has it been published in any peer
reviewed journals, etc. There have been plenty of AIDS
whacko denialists that died because they chose to treat
their disease with diet instead of drugs.

Montagnier is just a loose cannon, unfortunately allowing
himself to be used by the AIDS denialists. I provided you
with the link to his recent speech at an AIDS conference
where he goes over the history of HIV and AIDS.
In that speech he even singles out the nut Duesburg and
makes it clear that he thinks he's wrong in his denial of HIV
being the cause of AIDS. He also cites some of the very
same things I've tried to get across to you. Like the fact
that suddenly in the 80s we had haemophiliacs acquiring
AIDS and dying. Once HIV was identified as the cause
and blood was screened, haemophiliacs were no longer
acquiring the disease. That's some very powerful evidence
that HIV is the cause. And he discusses how the current
HIV drugs are working. In short, it's clear that he believes
HIV causes AIDS. If he didn't he would have one hell of
a speech and it could have been devoted to that one topic.




If you still believe that HIV causes AIDS after watching that film,
well, it would mean that you're still stupid.

And there ain't no cure for stupid.

--
Dogman



You are the one who has claimed:

HIV is not the cause of AIDS
AIDS is caused by lack of sleep and recreational drug use.
HPV is not a cause of ovarian cancer
No virus can cause cancer because viruses only kill cells.

You see anyone here agreeing with any of that
nonsense? But I can see how you're easily mislead.
Per the above, you expect one denialist video is all the
proof that is needed to make something true that 99.99%
of the scientific and medical community say is BS.

On May 15, 1:10*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 9 May 2012 08:43:49 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:

[...]

Same thing with HIV, a mostly harmless retrovirus, that causes (at
most) mild flu-like symptoms, and then the immune system does it's
job.

Which of course 99.99% of the scientific and medical community
say is BS. *Who should we believe? *The CDC, WHO, and
countless other authorities or the one or two kooks, like
Duesburg that say it ain't so?

You can believe anyone you want, of course, but to make up your mind
without reading Duesberg's book (or these books:http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/books.htmis to do what stupid people
do: listen to only one side of an argument, which makes them not only
stupid but ignorant as well.

[...]

Read Duesberg's book:

Why would I read the book



I've seen that nut thoroughly discredit himself in the 80s.
He claimed AIDS was caused by recreational drug use,
too much sex, God knows what else. In fact, denialists
have a long list of what else it's caused by to try to explain
all the people who have it.

Gays - Too much sex
IV Drug users - Recreational drugs
Africans - Not enough food and sleep
Haemophiliacs - They were dying already

Back then the evidence was overwhelming that this was
wrong. Today it's insurmountable and you might as
well be arguing for a flat earth. So, sorry, I'm not going
to read one more sad book.




I'm going to stop replying to your posts about this topic for a couple
of reasons. You're too stupid to understand much of anything, and
you've become boring and repetitive.

One question, though. Do you have AIDS? IMO, you're taking this
subject a bit too personally for someone who doesn't. Anyway, if you
do, or know someone who does, it's probably not too late to save
someone's life.

--
Dogman


Which goes to show the lack of any rational thought process.
If I'm taking this too personally because I'm posting, what
exactly does it say about you? As for saving anyone's life,
if people listen to denialists like you and Duesburg, that sure
isn't gonna happen.

On May 15, 9:46*pm, James Warren wrote:

I certainly agree with Feynman there. But I do think the HIV-AIDS
connection has been quite well established. If it is, in fact, wrong
then I will need to see a very good experiment demonstrating it.


In his mind, all the proof that's needed is one book by
an AIDS denialist or one Youtube video. All the mountains
of scientific proof be damned. And all the moutains of
evidence we've seen with our own eyes:

Hemophiliacs suddenly get AIDS in the 80s and die.
HIV is found as the cause.
HIV is found in Hemophiliacs, transmitted through
blood products they take.
Test is developed for HIV and all blood is screened.
Hemophiliacs are no longer getting infected with HIV
and dying.

Same story as above but with patients receiving
blood transfusions.

People were getting infected with HIV, developing
AIDS and dying within a few years.
Drugs are developed that specifically target the HIV
virus.
Those infected with HIV are living for decades when
treated with those drugs.
Virus levels are measured in those patients and they
are low to undetectable.

Then we have the cases where people developed
AIDS and the source was traced directly back to
infected blood, etc from a particular source. In many
cases the virus was even DNA typed to show that
it was the same strain as that in the host.

Yeah, who should we believe? Duesburg with a crazy
story that's been going on for decades but has never
fit the facts? Or the actual evidence that fits
perfectly with HIV being the cause of AIDS.

On Wed, 16 May 2012 08:06:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
Montagnier's own words, *2009*:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQoNW7lOnT4&NR=1

Of course the obvious problem for you is that the
video doesn't show Montagnier denying that
HIV causes AIDS.

He said that it is not required, and that it can be cured/prevented
through lifestyle and nutritionary changes.

And that HIV isn't necessary for AIDS.

What he's saying is that people that have
adequate diets, are overall healthy, etc may have a better
chance at avoiding becoming infected with HIV and getting
AIDS.

Exactly! Which is exactly what Duesberg has always said.

That's true of most infections. If you're healthy
you're probably less likely to get measles too. That
doesn't mean that the virus that causes measles is not
the infectious agent that is responsible.

Yes, it virtually does. He implies that doing drugs intraveneously,
abusing other rec. drugs, taking antibiotics prohylatically, getting
STD after STD, inhaling amyl nitrates, exchanging bodily fluids with
hundreds of men per month, getting no sleep, eating poorly, drinking
dirty water, etc. will destroy your immune ststem. HIV isn't needed.

The sad thing here is that Montagnier lets this interviewer
who clearly has an agenda and no interest in the truth,
run the interview to get the snippets that the AIDS denialists
want.

You just keep thinking along those lines; it proves that you're
stupid.

[...]
You are the one who has claimed:

HIV is not the cause of AIDS

Because it's not.

AIDS is caused by lack of sleep and recreational drug use.

That's the short list, but true.

HPV is not a cause of ovarian cancer

That's because it's not.

No virus can cause cancer because viruses only kill cells.

That's because it's true.

And don't forget Hep C, FeLV, FIV too.

You see anyone here agreeing with any of that
nonsense?

I don't see anyone "here" agreeing with you excapt for James Warren, a
person who may be even stupider than you are. But I'm not sure that's
even possible.

You two deserve each other.




--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

On Wed, 16 May 2012 08:15:47 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
One question, though. Do you have AIDS? IMO, you're taking this
subject a bit too personally for someone who doesn't. Anyway, if you
do, or know someone who does, it's probably not too late to save
someone's life.

If I'm taking this too personally because I'm posting,

Not just because you are posting, but HOW you are posting.

You're taking things much too personally. The venom is unbecoming.

Do you have AIDS?

what exactly does it say about you?

It says that I care about the truth.

As for saving anyone's life,
if people listen to denialists like you and Duesburg, that sure
isn't gonna happen.

How many lives have Gallo, Fauci, Ho, et al, saved?

Answer: ZERO.

But Duesberg's already saved thousands of lives, by getting those poor
schmucks off of AIDS drugs, or convincing them not to start taking
them.

So if you have AIDS, or know someone who does...

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

On Wed, 16 May 2012 08:27:48 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
Or the actual evidence that fits
perfectly with HIV being the cause of AIDS.

I've answered all those questions for you, yet the answers go right
over your head.

Because there's no there, there.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

On 5/16/2012 11:54 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Tue, 15 May 2012 22:46:11 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
Fortunately, science isn't about permutations and combinations, it's
about The Scientific Method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Rvy-ft1bI

I certainly agree with Feynman there. But I do think the HIV-AIDS
connection has been quite well established.

That's because you've only heard one side. And because you're
uncurious, despite your protestations to the contrary.

If it is, in fact, wrong
then I will need to see a very good experiment demonstrating it.

Actually, all you need to do is to read Duesberg's book. But you
won't do that, of course. Because you're mostly a troll.


Does Duesberg show experiments that exclude HIV as a cause of AIDS?

On 5/16/2012 12:31 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2012 08:06:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
Montagnier's own words, *2009*:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQoNW7lOnT4&NR=1

Of course the obvious problem for you is that the
video doesn't show Montagnier denying that
HIV causes AIDS.

He said that it is not required, and that it can be cured/prevented
through lifestyle and nutritionary changes.

And that HIV isn't necessary for AIDS.

What he's saying is that people that have
adequate diets, are overall healthy, etc may have a better
chance at avoiding becoming infected with HIV and getting
AIDS.

Exactly! Which is exactly what Duesberg has always said.

That's true of most infections. If you're healthy
you're probably less likely to get measles too. That
doesn't mean that the virus that causes measles is not
the infectious agent that is responsible.

Yes, it virtually does. He implies that doing drugs intraveneously,
abusing other rec. drugs, taking antibiotics prohylatically, getting
STD after STD, inhaling amyl nitrates, exchanging bodily fluids with
hundreds of men per month, getting no sleep, eating poorly, drinking
dirty water, etc. will destroy your immune ststem. HIV isn't needed.

The sad thing here is that Montagnier lets this interviewer
who clearly has an agenda and no interest in the truth,
run the interview to get the snippets that the AIDS denialists
want.

You just keep thinking along those lines; it proves that you're
stupid.

[...]
You are the one who has claimed:

HIV is not the cause of AIDS

Because it's not.

AIDS is caused by lack of sleep and recreational drug use.

That's the short list, but true.

HPV is not a cause of ovarian cancer

That's because it's not.

No virus can cause cancer because viruses only kill cells.

That's because it's true.

And don't forget Hep C, FeLV, FIV too.

You see anyone here agreeing with any of that
nonsense?

I don't see anyone "here" agreeing with you excapt for James Warren, a
person who may be even stupider than you are. But I'm not sure that's
even possible.

You two deserve each other.

The definition of stupidity seems to be: disagreeing with Dogman. Precious!