intro and q's about starting on low-carb

Hello!
I'm 32, and very interested in trying to eat low-carb.
I've been overweight most of my adult life, and am tired
of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
really made me want to make some changes.
I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
breakfast: 30 gms
lunch: 45 gms
dinner: 60 gms
snack: 30 gms
(These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is.. and please
don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much anyway..
and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a week.
So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
some beginner's guidelines?
Thanks in advance!

Amy

In article OPSZc.361317$%_6.195450@attbi_s01, says...
Hello!
I'm 32, and very interested in trying to eat low-carb.
I've been overweight most of my adult life, and am tired
of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
really made me want to make some changes.
I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
breakfast: 30 gms
lunch: 45 gms
dinner: 60 gms
snack: 30 gms
(These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is.. and please
don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much anyway..
and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a week.
So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
some beginner's guidelines?
Thanks in advance!

Hi Amy, welcome to the group!

How do you feel about chicken and fish? I'm not much of a meat eater, either,
although I do like pork ribs about once every couple of weeks. I eat a lot of
chicken and just don't care much for beef. It's a texture thing for me. As far
as the induction-esque level of carbs goes, there's really no answer for that
other than needing to stick it out until you can add more carbs back in. Usually
the cravings for carbs are gone around the 3rd or 4th day. I think low-carb is
considered to be anything less than 100 grams per day, so you could aim for that,
although most people here seem to need to be at 50 or less to truly be effective
unless they are very active. BTW, you CAN and, in fact, are ENCOURAGED to eat
vegetables on low-carb, despite what the media might have you believe, and you
can even add some fruit back after the first couple of weeks (sooner if you
choose a different plan such as South Beach) so it's not a matter of being
relegated to a strictly meat, cheese, butter and egg diet.

There are others here that are MUCH more knowledgable about diabetes than I am,
so I'll leave that aspect to them to answer. I will say, however, that most
diabetics posting here have experienced DRAMATIC improvements in their blood
sugar levels via low-carb, so give it a chance!

--
Saffire
205/149/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

In article OPSZc.361317$%_6.195450@attbi_s01, says...
Hello!
I'm 32, and very interested in trying to eat low-carb.
I've been overweight most of my adult life, and am tired
of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
really made me want to make some changes.
I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
breakfast: 30 gms
lunch: 45 gms
dinner: 60 gms
snack: 30 gms
(These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is.. and please
don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much anyway..
and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a week.
So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
some beginner's guidelines?
Thanks in advance!

Hi Amy, welcome to the group!

How do you feel about chicken and fish? I'm not much of a meat eater, either,
although I do like pork ribs about once every couple of weeks. I eat a lot of
chicken and just don't care much for beef. It's a texture thing for me. As far
as the induction-esque level of carbs goes, there's really no answer for that
other than needing to stick it out until you can add more carbs back in. Usually
the cravings for carbs are gone around the 3rd or 4th day. I think low-carb is
considered to be anything less than 100 grams per day, so you could aim for that,
although most people here seem to need to be at 50 or less to truly be effective
unless they are very active. BTW, you CAN and, in fact, are ENCOURAGED to eat
vegetables on low-carb, despite what the media might have you believe, and you
can even add some fruit back after the first couple of weeks (sooner if you
choose a different plan such as South Beach) so it's not a matter of being
relegated to a strictly meat, cheese, butter and egg diet.

There are others here that are MUCH more knowledgable about diabetes than I am,
so I'll leave that aspect to them to answer. I will say, however, that most
diabetics posting here have experienced DRAMATIC improvements in their blood
sugar levels via low-carb, so give it a chance!

--
Saffire
205/149/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Hi Amy,

Welcome to ASDLC.

of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
really made me want to make some changes.
I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
breakfast: 30 gms
lunch: 45 gms
dinner: 60 gms
snack: 30 gms
(These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is..

You're right. These carb limits are really too high for you to
achieve best health as a diabetic (and 'best health' is a good aim -
weight loss is great, but best health is a better goal, and one that
often INCLUDES weight loss as a great side effect). You need to find
a way to eat that makes you healthy, because THIS will allow you to
find ways (such as exercise) that work to assist you in your secondary
goal of weight loss.

I also have type II. I follow the guidelines proposed by Dr Richard
Bernstein. His website is http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/ and
I would strongly recommend you have a look at it and seriously
consider buying and reading his book for more details on his Plan. Dr
Bernstein is a diabetic doctor both ways - an MD specialising in
diabetes AND a type 1 diabetic since around the age of 12. Unlike
many other 'diabetes gurus' he LIVES what he preaches and has lived
with his diabetes for more than 5 decades. As you would know, this is
an impressive lifespan from diagnosis.

One strong recommendation I have often seen for diabetics wanting to
low-carb is to test test test. Yes, I know it's a pain, but for a
week, before changing your diet, keep a food and test data diary.
Note down what you eat, when you eat it and your blood glucose levels
before, and at 1 and 2 hours after eating. Yes, this means you might
be testing 10 or more times a day, and yes I know it can sting to do
that many tests. but it's worth it. At the end of the week, you'll
have an idea of what your blood glucose does with each food
combination you eat, where any spikes are and how quickly your blood
glucose comes down again.

When *I* tested, I found I had sluggish reactions in the morning, but
between 10 am and 4 pm my glucose reactions were much better. After
about 6pm my body doesn't handle glucose very well at all. This told
me that I need to be scanty with carbs in the morning and evening and
can 'afford' my biggest carb-hit middle of the day. So, I keep
breakfast at around 4 - 6 g a day, lunch I go to a heady 20g and
dinner I keep at around 10 g. Snacks (if I eat them - I'm not always
hungry and I don't see the point of snacking just because the clock
says I 'should' be hungry) I keep to around 5 - 10g depending on time
of day. I also have to keep track of my protein intake since it also
has an effect (but to a lesser extent) on my glucose levels.

This usually keeps my A1C around the 6 - 7 mark which is good news.

Don't take MY figures for gospel, though. Your body may work
differently. You need to have an idea of how YOUR body reacts to be
able to come up with a scheme that makes YOUR body work as close to a
non-diabetic one as possible.

don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much anyway..
and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a week.
So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
some beginner's guidelines?
Thanks in advance!

Amy

Yes, there IS a middle road. You, as a diabetic, should probably
still avoid breads and pastas for the most part as they contain LOTS
of processed starch for very little nutrition. Still, when you
eliminate the grains there is LOTS of room for veggies. My normal
meal is a moderate portion of meat and a large pile of lightly cooked
veggies such as broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, bok choi, and other
green-leafies OR a big salad of fresh veggies (lettuces, cucumber,
celery, some tomato and carrot and so on). There are other veggies
you could add there (like peppers) that I have to avoid because of
multiple food intolerances.

I've been Low-carbing for over 6 years eating this way and I'm
healthier now (LOTS healthier now) than when I started. My weight
loss has been excruciatingly slow (due to health problems unrelated to
my diabetes) but worth the waiting for.

Best of luck in your quest for better health!

Aramanth
(in sunny South Australia)

Hi Amy,

Welcome to ASDLC.

of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
really made me want to make some changes.
I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
breakfast: 30 gms
lunch: 45 gms
dinner: 60 gms
snack: 30 gms
(These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is..

You're right. These carb limits are really too high for you to
achieve best health as a diabetic (and 'best health' is a good aim -
weight loss is great, but best health is a better goal, and one that
often INCLUDES weight loss as a great side effect). You need to find
a way to eat that makes you healthy, because THIS will allow you to
find ways (such as exercise) that work to assist you in your secondary
goal of weight loss.

I also have type II. I follow the guidelines proposed by Dr Richard
Bernstein. His website is http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/ and
I would strongly recommend you have a look at it and seriously
consider buying and reading his book for more details on his Plan. Dr
Bernstein is a diabetic doctor both ways - an MD specialising in
diabetes AND a type 1 diabetic since around the age of 12. Unlike
many other 'diabetes gurus' he LIVES what he preaches and has lived
with his diabetes for more than 5 decades. As you would know, this is
an impressive lifespan from diagnosis.

One strong recommendation I have often seen for diabetics wanting to
low-carb is to test test test. Yes, I know it's a pain, but for a
week, before changing your diet, keep a food and test data diary.
Note down what you eat, when you eat it and your blood glucose levels
before, and at 1 and 2 hours after eating. Yes, this means you might
be testing 10 or more times a day, and yes I know it can sting to do
that many tests. but it's worth it. At the end of the week, you'll
have an idea of what your blood glucose does with each food
combination you eat, where any spikes are and how quickly your blood
glucose comes down again.

When *I* tested, I found I had sluggish reactions in the morning, but
between 10 am and 4 pm my glucose reactions were much better. After
about 6pm my body doesn't handle glucose very well at all. This told
me that I need to be scanty with carbs in the morning and evening and
can 'afford' my biggest carb-hit middle of the day. So, I keep
breakfast at around 4 - 6 g a day, lunch I go to a heady 20g and
dinner I keep at around 10 g. Snacks (if I eat them - I'm not always
hungry and I don't see the point of snacking just because the clock
says I 'should' be hungry) I keep to around 5 - 10g depending on time
of day. I also have to keep track of my protein intake since it also
has an effect (but to a lesser extent) on my glucose levels.

This usually keeps my A1C around the 6 - 7 mark which is good news.

Don't take MY figures for gospel, though. Your body may work
differently. You need to have an idea of how YOUR body reacts to be
able to come up with a scheme that makes YOUR body work as close to a
non-diabetic one as possible.

don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much anyway..
and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a week.
So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
some beginner's guidelines?
Thanks in advance!

Amy

Yes, there IS a middle road. You, as a diabetic, should probably
still avoid breads and pastas for the most part as they contain LOTS
of processed starch for very little nutrition. Still, when you
eliminate the grains there is LOTS of room for veggies. My normal
meal is a moderate portion of meat and a large pile of lightly cooked
veggies such as broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, bok choi, and other
green-leafies OR a big salad of fresh veggies (lettuces, cucumber,
celery, some tomato and carrot and so on). There are other veggies
you could add there (like peppers) that I have to avoid because of
multiple food intolerances.

I've been Low-carbing for over 6 years eating this way and I'm
healthier now (LOTS healthier now) than when I started. My weight
loss has been excruciatingly slow (due to health problems unrelated to
my diabetes) but worth the waiting for.

Best of luck in your quest for better health!

Aramanth
(in sunny South Australia)

In article OPSZc.361317$%_6.195450@attbi_s01,
"amylou" wrote:

Hello!
I'm 32, and very interested in trying to eat low-carb.
I've been overweight most of my adult life, and am tired
of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
really made me want to make some changes.
I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
breakfast: 30 gms
lunch: 45 gms
dinner: 60 gms
snack: 30 gms
(These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is.. and please
don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much anyway..
and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a week.
So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
some beginner's guidelines?
Thanks in advance!

Amy



I don't know much about diabetes, but I know a little about doing low-carb.
You could try doing a reverse induction - gradually lower the amount of
carbs you eat until you get down to a level that improves your health. I
did it that way, but instead of counting the actual number of
carbohydrates, I counted by food. First week I stopped eating candy.
Second week, popcorn and chips. Third week, pasta, and so on. I replaced
what I was eating with healthier low-carb alternatives that I enjoy eating.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

amylou wrote:
:: Hello!
:: I'm 32, and very interested in trying to eat low-carb.
:: I've been overweight most of my adult life, and am tired
:: of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
:: really made me want to make some changes.
:: I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
:: never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
:: breakfast: 30 gms
:: lunch: 45 gms
:: dinner: 60 gms
:: snack: 30 gms

Damn -- that's a lot of carbs for someone who is type 2. Are you exericsing?
What about meds? What are your fasting and through-the-day blood sugar
levels like?

:: (These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
:: I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
:: an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is.. and please
:: don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
:: and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much
:: anyway.. and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a
:: week.
:: So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
:: some beginner's guidelines?

Sure....taper down from where you are now until you get to a level you can
be happy at and one that provide you with BG control. Atkins induction is
really not about weight loss, so that 20g limit is for other reasons. But
as a T2, you really need to let your BG meter be your guide to your carb
level. You also need to add in regular exercise if you are not already
doing some. This is very important. Your goal should be to lose weight AND
get off of all meds for diabetics. That the book at the other poster
mentioned and don't depend on your nurse for imformation. While I can't
speak about your nurse in specific, i can tell you a lot of these medical
professionals don't know jack about controling diabetics. They seem to want
to advise you to take drugs and eat carby stuff to get BG control. Drugs
frequently have side effects and if you don't get and keep them matched up
right against what you're eating, then things can be dicey. The best plan is
to use diet and exercise to gain control. Many folks here, including
myself, use no drugs and have great control with JUST diet and exercise.

:: Thanks in advance!
::
:: Amy

amylou wrote:
:: Hello!
:: I'm 32, and very interested in trying to eat low-carb.
:: I've been overweight most of my adult life, and am tired
:: of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
:: really made me want to make some changes.
:: I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
:: never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
:: breakfast: 30 gms
:: lunch: 45 gms
:: dinner: 60 gms
:: snack: 30 gms

Damn -- that's a lot of carbs for someone who is type 2. Are you exericsing?
What about meds? What are your fasting and through-the-day blood sugar
levels like?

:: (These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
:: I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
:: an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is.. and please
:: don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
:: and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much
:: anyway.. and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a
:: week.
:: So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
:: some beginner's guidelines?

Sure....taper down from where you are now until you get to a level you can
be happy at and one that provide you with BG control. Atkins induction is
really not about weight loss, so that 20g limit is for other reasons. But
as a T2, you really need to let your BG meter be your guide to your carb
level. You also need to add in regular exercise if you are not already
doing some. This is very important. Your goal should be to lose weight AND
get off of all meds for diabetics. That the book at the other poster
mentioned and don't depend on your nurse for imformation. While I can't
speak about your nurse in specific, i can tell you a lot of these medical
professionals don't know jack about controling diabetics. They seem to want
to advise you to take drugs and eat carby stuff to get BG control. Drugs
frequently have side effects and if you don't get and keep them matched up
right against what you're eating, then things can be dicey. The best plan is
to use diet and exercise to gain control. Many folks here, including
myself, use no drugs and have great control with JUST diet and exercise.

:: Thanks in advance!
::
:: Amy

"amylou" wrote in
news:OPSZc.361317$%_6.195450@attbi_s01:

Hello!
I'm 32, and very interested in trying to eat low-carb.
I've been overweight most of my adult life, and am tired
of it.. plus, the diagnosis of type II DM last winter
really made me want to make some changes.
I've already cut way back on carbs.. I rarely eat sugar,
never drink regular soft drinks, and I try to limit my carbs to:
breakfast: 30 gms
lunch: 45 gms
dinner: 60 gms
snack: 30 gms
(These limits were at the recommendation of my diabetes nurse).
I know this is way too many carbs, but I don't know what
an effective limit to achieve sensible weight loss is.. and please
don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
and I just can't do it. I don't like to eat meat all that much anyway..
and I got REALLY tired of eggs and cheese after about a week.
So.. is there a middle of the road? Any ideas where I can get
some beginner's guidelines?
Thanks in advance!

Amy



I'm hypoglycemic so have an interest in blood sugar/hormones/carbs, etc. I
started Atkins 2+ years ago just to control my reactive hypo and I'm very
pleased.

Diabetes is difficult... there are many different factors involved in
making sure you're going about LC correctly (monitoring meds, etc.). I
really recommend reading up on it. I recently bought a book called Atkins
Diabetes Revolution from Amazon. It's based on Atkins' practice and written
by people that worked very closely with him. It's not a terribly long read
and written very simply. You can also go to atkins.com and read about how
diabetes can be controlled. There's a search function available.

It's wise to work closely with a doctor that doesn't go by the current
nutritional recommendations for diabetes... or at the very least, is
willing to work with you. I find the carb requirements far too high for
people with insulin problems. Just my 2 cents.

~miette

"amylou" writes:
don't say Atkins-inductionesque 20 gms a day.. I've tried that,
and I just can't do it.

That's just to kick-start you into ketosis. Right after that, you're
*supposed* to increase carbs until you hit the magic CCLL balance
point, which can be up to 100g/day for some people.

I don't like to eat meat all that much anyway..

Other forms of LC foods: Mayo, olives, avocado, fish, salad dressing,
nuts, butter, cream sauces.