Atkins Diet

"Crafting Mom" wrote in message
...
What Ignoramus was saying is that a former fat person needs to more or
less keep on doing the same thing that enabled them to lose the weight.
To just say "oh I got my number now", and go back to their *old habits*,
which *made them fat* is quite stupid.

We do agree there, except their old habits were *not* the habits of a normal
person. That's what got them fat in the first place (unless of course, they
were actually normal but of slightly overweight body type and are embarking
on the way to super-obesity through yo-yo dieting). Before the diet, they
were eating like a fat obese, and after the diet, they are eating like a
slim obese. But never are they eating like a regular slim person. And I
include the so-called "balanced" diet. I mean, very few real slim people
actually eat a balanced diet every single meal...

It does not mean they even HAVE TO stick to that diet for the rest of
their lives.

Actually, most will have to. They will have at least to stick to a
maintenance form of their diet.

Just that they've now learned how to not get fat again.

No, they have learnt how to do diet A. It has taught them nothing about
doing diet B or actually eating like normal people. Actually, it has taught
them exactly how NOT to eat like normal people. Normal people eat whatever
they crave for - dieters eat whatever they do NOT crave for. Normal people
do not eat when they're not hungry - many dieters are taught to stuff
themselves with food they don't like (vegetables, fruits) in order to resist
the urge to eat BAD food (fats, carbs). Normal people stop eating when
they're not hungry anymore - many dieters eat until their stomach is full
(which might include reducing the size of their stomach, so they can get it
full anyway) for fear that they would get hungry and eat outside of the
allowed hours and/or snack on BAD food. For normal people, having your
stomach full is an emergency warning that any more food will make them throw
up - for many dieters, having one's stomach full is the feeling they mistake
for satiety ("veggies are great, they make me feel so *full*").
They have only learnt how to be a good dieter. When they snap and binge,
they keep doing the same thing, except reversing BAD and GOOD, thus trying
to get their stomach full on BAD food to compensate for their frustration.

Any changes one makes to their life have to be permanent. As in, never
again back to the old way, even if the changes vary from time to time.

The old way was wrong, but this doesn't mean the new way is normal.

I do agree that for *some* people with true organic disorders or allergies,
you *do* need a diet. However, I do think they are a very very small
minority.
Likewise, some people actually do seem to be able to become "normal" eaters
after a diet. From reading your posts, you actually sound like one. IIRC,
you just happened on low carb through your own reasonning, and stuck to it
as long as it mimicked what you had found for yourself. But mostly, you kept
to your own feelings about food. Likewise, you do seem to be pretty well
tuned to your own satiety and hunger feelings. I don't know if you realize
just how lucky you are. Many people have dieted so much that to them feeling
hungry is just an abstract concept. These can go through a one year therapy
before something actually falls in place in their brain and they get a
reliable hunger feeling... Your probably so rare you should be embalmed and
put in a museum or something.

If you have become a rather normal eater, with a slightly peculiar diet that
you might or might not need, it's mostly despite the diets, not thanks to
them. I mean, diets mostly try to teach you how to *ignore* your hunger and
how to mess up with your satiety (full breakfast, light dinner, fill up with
veggies...). This doesn't sound like a good plan to re-educate obese...

"Crafting Mom" wrote in message
...
What Ignoramus was saying is that a former fat person needs to more or
less keep on doing the same thing that enabled them to lose the weight.
To just say "oh I got my number now", and go back to their *old habits*,
which *made them fat* is quite stupid.

We do agree there, except their old habits were *not* the habits of a normal
person. That's what got them fat in the first place (unless of course, they
were actually normal but of slightly overweight body type and are embarking
on the way to super-obesity through yo-yo dieting). Before the diet, they
were eating like a fat obese, and after the diet, they are eating like a
slim obese. But never are they eating like a regular slim person. And I
include the so-called "balanced" diet. I mean, very few real slim people
actually eat a balanced diet every single meal...

It does not mean they even HAVE TO stick to that diet for the rest of
their lives.

Actually, most will have to. They will have at least to stick to a
maintenance form of their diet.

Just that they've now learned how to not get fat again.

No, they have learnt how to do diet A. It has taught them nothing about
doing diet B or actually eating like normal people. Actually, it has taught
them exactly how NOT to eat like normal people. Normal people eat whatever
they crave for - dieters eat whatever they do NOT crave for. Normal people
do not eat when they're not hungry - many dieters are taught to stuff
themselves with food they don't like (vegetables, fruits) in order to resist
the urge to eat BAD food (fats, carbs). Normal people stop eating when
they're not hungry anymore - many dieters eat until their stomach is full
(which might include reducing the size of their stomach, so they can get it
full anyway) for fear that they would get hungry and eat outside of the
allowed hours and/or snack on BAD food. For normal people, having your
stomach full is an emergency warning that any more food will make them throw
up - for many dieters, having one's stomach full is the feeling they mistake
for satiety ("veggies are great, they make me feel so *full*").
They have only learnt how to be a good dieter. When they snap and binge,
they keep doing the same thing, except reversing BAD and GOOD, thus trying
to get their stomach full on BAD food to compensate for their frustration.

Any changes one makes to their life have to be permanent. As in, never
again back to the old way, even if the changes vary from time to time.

The old way was wrong, but this doesn't mean the new way is normal.

I do agree that for *some* people with true organic disorders or allergies,
you *do* need a diet. However, I do think they are a very very small
minority.
Likewise, some people actually do seem to be able to become "normal" eaters
after a diet. From reading your posts, you actually sound like one. IIRC,
you just happened on low carb through your own reasonning, and stuck to it
as long as it mimicked what you had found for yourself. But mostly, you kept
to your own feelings about food. Likewise, you do seem to be pretty well
tuned to your own satiety and hunger feelings. I don't know if you realize
just how lucky you are. Many people have dieted so much that to them feeling
hungry is just an abstract concept. These can go through a one year therapy
before something actually falls in place in their brain and they get a
reliable hunger feeling... Your probably so rare you should be embalmed and
put in a museum or something.

If you have become a rather normal eater, with a slightly peculiar diet that
you might or might not need, it's mostly despite the diets, not thanks to
them. I mean, diets mostly try to teach you how to *ignore* your hunger and
how to mess up with your satiety (full breakfast, light dinner, fill up with
veggies...). This doesn't sound like a good plan to re-educate obese...

Lictor,
I wish to apologize if the tone of my recent posts came across as either
offensive OR offending, and or impatient. I re-read my posts and I did
sound very impatient, harsh, and resentful, and that is not how I like
to be, nor was it the way I was feeling when I wrote the posts.

Anyway, my main point of view is that I am raised in a culture (Canada,
not the USA - they are two different countries - by the way), where
there are many ways to be polite, not just one.

One is to simply take a serving of whatever is offered, another is to
politely say "No, thank you", another is to systematically slice up said
food on one's plate and pretend to have eaten some.

Just wanted to make you aware that in the culture I grew up in, there
are many ways to be socially polite, and yet they are all radically
different from each other.

Surprisingly though it may seem, MOST Of the time I do end up just
eating whatever is put in front of me, without question, and then
putting up with the effects afterward. But there are times when I can
get away with not having to have something I don't want, something which
makes my body feel yucky, and I definitely will take advantage of those
times and the host(ess) will never EVER feel slighted.

Peace,
Crafting Mom

Lictor,
I wish to apologize if the tone of my recent posts came across as either
offensive OR offending, and or impatient. I re-read my posts and I did
sound very impatient, harsh, and resentful, and that is not how I like
to be, nor was it the way I was feeling when I wrote the posts.

Anyway, my main point of view is that I am raised in a culture (Canada,
not the USA - they are two different countries - by the way), where
there are many ways to be polite, not just one.

One is to simply take a serving of whatever is offered, another is to
politely say "No, thank you", another is to systematically slice up said
food on one's plate and pretend to have eaten some.

Just wanted to make you aware that in the culture I grew up in, there
are many ways to be socially polite, and yet they are all radically
different from each other.

Surprisingly though it may seem, MOST Of the time I do end up just
eating whatever is put in front of me, without question, and then
putting up with the effects afterward. But there are times when I can
get away with not having to have something I don't want, something which
makes my body feel yucky, and I definitely will take advantage of those
times and the host(ess) will never EVER feel slighted.

Peace,
Crafting Mom

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...
Which is a pity, really. Far more to the point, if that happens, to
work out *why* it happened, and to accept that one's goal might take
another week to reach.... And then to spend a few days eating more
carefully.

Yet, most diet do not even attempt to deal with the fact that it *will*
happen to many people. The advices are usually just plain lame, from "don't.
butch up." to "eat delicious cuncumber sticks instead". One might wonder if
the people who write these books have ever experienced a binge crisis and
how strong it can be... They seem to think it's some kind of weird craving,
where real bingeing is an earthquake that can obliterate all willpower. It's
actually symptomatic of the whole approach. Bingeing is a purely
psychological phenomenon, yet most insist on dealing with it from a purely
dietetic point of view...

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...
Which is a pity, really. Far more to the point, if that happens, to
work out *why* it happened, and to accept that one's goal might take
another week to reach.... And then to spend a few days eating more
carefully.

Yet, most diet do not even attempt to deal with the fact that it *will*
happen to many people. The advices are usually just plain lame, from "don't.
butch up." to "eat delicious cuncumber sticks instead". One might wonder if
the people who write these books have ever experienced a binge crisis and
how strong it can be... They seem to think it's some kind of weird craving,
where real bingeing is an earthquake that can obliterate all willpower. It's
actually symptomatic of the whole approach. Bingeing is a purely
psychological phenomenon, yet most insist on dealing with it from a purely
dietetic point of view...

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...
Which is a pity, really. Far more to the point, if that happens, to
work out *why* it happened, and to accept that one's goal might take
another week to reach.... And then to spend a few days eating more
carefully.

Yet, most diet do not even attempt to deal with the fact that it *will*
happen to many people. The advices are usually just plain lame, from "don't.
butch up." to "eat delicious cuncumber sticks instead". One might wonder if
the people who write these books have ever experienced a binge crisis and
how strong it can be... They seem to think it's some kind of weird craving,
where real bingeing is an earthquake that can obliterate all willpower. It's
actually symptomatic of the whole approach. Bingeing is a purely
psychological phenomenon, yet most insist on dealing with it from a purely
dietetic point of view...

Lictor wrote:
From reading your posts, you actually sound like one. IIRC,
you just happened on low carb through your own reasonning, and stuck to it
as long as it mimicked what you had found for yourself. But mostly, you kept
to your own feelings about food. Likewise, you do seem to be pretty well
tuned to your own satiety and hunger feelings. I don't know if you realize
just how lucky you are. Many people have dieted so much that to them feeling
hungry is just an abstract concept. These can go through a one year therapy
before something actually falls in place in their brain and they get a
reliable hunger feeling... Your probably so rare you should be embalmed and
put in a museum or something.

Lictor, my impression about you was incorrect. I do apologize for my
argumentative tone in my other posts. Yes, I was on low-carb, but it
was just by coincidence. Being on low-carb helped me identify a lot of
things which, if not kept under control, can lead to the urge to binge.
I now do eat pretty normally. Not much sugar, not much grain, but more
or less "normal". I don't go out of my way to buy any packaged,
*******ized, polluted foods with 25-syllable additives to it, but there
is a bit more variety in my diet. I stop when satiated and eat slowly.

If you have become a rather normal eater, with a slightly peculiar diet that
you might or might not need, it's mostly despite the diets, not thanks to
them. I mean, diets mostly try to teach you how to *ignore* your hunger and
how to mess up with your satiety (full breakfast, light dinner, fill up with
veggies...). This doesn't sound like a good plan to re-educate obese...

Actually, it's my (self made) low-carb diet that helped put the cravings
at bay for a good long time, and gave me enough time to discern the
difference between hunger (stomach empty, need to eat soon) and cravings
(I wish I had a [whatever]). I had confused the two for so long that I
NEEDED a physical representation of both in my own body, so I could
discern them both as opposites.

Before that, I very much had them marked as one and the same.
Crafting Mom

Lictor wrote:
From reading your posts, you actually sound like one. IIRC,
you just happened on low carb through your own reasonning, and stuck to it
as long as it mimicked what you had found for yourself. But mostly, you kept
to your own feelings about food. Likewise, you do seem to be pretty well
tuned to your own satiety and hunger feelings. I don't know if you realize
just how lucky you are. Many people have dieted so much that to them feeling
hungry is just an abstract concept. These can go through a one year therapy
before something actually falls in place in their brain and they get a
reliable hunger feeling... Your probably so rare you should be embalmed and
put in a museum or something.

Lictor, my impression about you was incorrect. I do apologize for my
argumentative tone in my other posts. Yes, I was on low-carb, but it
was just by coincidence. Being on low-carb helped me identify a lot of
things which, if not kept under control, can lead to the urge to binge.
I now do eat pretty normally. Not much sugar, not much grain, but more
or less "normal". I don't go out of my way to buy any packaged,
*******ized, polluted foods with 25-syllable additives to it, but there
is a bit more variety in my diet. I stop when satiated and eat slowly.

If you have become a rather normal eater, with a slightly peculiar diet that
you might or might not need, it's mostly despite the diets, not thanks to
them. I mean, diets mostly try to teach you how to *ignore* your hunger and
how to mess up with your satiety (full breakfast, light dinner, fill up with
veggies...). This doesn't sound like a good plan to re-educate obese...

Actually, it's my (self made) low-carb diet that helped put the cravings
at bay for a good long time, and gave me enough time to discern the
difference between hunger (stomach empty, need to eat soon) and cravings
(I wish I had a [whatever]). I had confused the two for so long that I
NEEDED a physical representation of both in my own body, so I could
discern them both as opposites.

Before that, I very much had them marked as one and the same.
Crafting Mom

"Crafting Mom" wrote in message
...
Lictor wrote:
Well, I've been on all kinds of "weird diets", from vegan to vegetarian,
to "no this" and "no that", and I've never had a problem enjoying life
with friends!

Here, people on a diet tend to just lock themselves and diet until they
experiment some kind of transformation and the ugly worms turns into a
beautiful butterfly that can go shine into the outside world. Anyway, that
seems to be the common process among women dieters in my country. Male
dieters, on the other hand, just go sulk with their friends where they
remind everyone of how much they are NOT enjoying themselves and how hard it
is to be on a diet, until they either manage to ruin the party for everyone
OR managed to get "convinced" that the doctor actually told them not to diet
at parties (then, they get drunk, eat a bunch and then spend the next few
days complaining). Another male behaviour is to throw up a party to
celebrate each lost couple of pounds - well managed, this provides an
endless supply of parties as you yo-yo around the very same weight forever.

I'm not saying it's sane (it's not), but it's just the way people do it.
That also explains dieters don't get invited to parties. In the case of
females, it would be rude to tempt them while they're turning into nuns, and
it the case of males, they just ruin the party with their bad mood.

Otherwise, the polite way to do things is just in reverse. You're not
supposed to bother your host with your own peculiarities, and likewise, when
the host comes to eat at your home, he's the one who won't bother you.

I've been at wonderful gatherings with friends where an abundance of
delicious food was served, and I didn't know attending said party had an
admission fee of eating a food you don't like... grin. I just go
without. And I do so happily while respecting my friend's rights to eat
whatever they want.

It's more like *tasting* and showing that the food is well cooked. If you're
a vegan, noone will ask you to eat the meat of course, though you can earn
cookie point by commenting on it - even if you don't eat it, you might say
it looks good, that it smells so good you would *almost* wish you weren't
vegan... If you're dieting, people will understand that you don't three tons
of food. They might understand that you don't eat some food too. But if you
don't eat anything at all *and* bring your own food, the host will just
conclude that you think his cooking sucks and that you are telling it in the
rudest way...

See that is the thing. Respect. I go out of my way to cook things for
my friends "weird eating habits", even if I don't eat it. It's called
give and take. It's one of the things that hold friends together.

Well, I go out of my way to *taste* what my weird friend cook for me...
Including disgusting things like kidneys... I even managed some nice
commenting while repressing the gag reflex...

And if a woman has just a "starter" at a restaurant... so what? I've
seen the portion size of some "starters", and that's enough for a whole
entire meal! Maybe she is actually enjoying the taste of her starter,
and is exercising real self control by *stopping when full*

That's not in the USA, starters are *small* here You don't do a whole
meal with one of our starters, even if you had gastric surgery. Actually, I
do practice the stopping when "full" thing, that's my only mean of dieting.
This doesn't prevent me from eating the whole menu at restaurants - I just
eat about half the portions I'm served, and eventually do not have a
dessert. That way, I eat in sync with the other people (which is the polite
thing to do) and I experience a bit of each tastes... I just wish we had
doggy bags
Besides, she doesn't really enjoyed her starter, she seemed a lot more
interested in what we were eating. And she's even underweight. Besides,
she's the kind of person who has a kitchen I would kill for, fully featured
with the best cooking technologies, yet *never* cooks in it because it would
*dirty* it. Actually, she doesn't know how to cook, even pasta or rice.
That's a sure sign of a troublesome relationship with food.

So which is it? It just seems there's no pleasing anybody (which is now
why I stop trying, where my own body is concerned). If a person is too
fat, they're looked upon with disgust with a sneering upturned nose, and
the person (sometimes verbally saying) "Ewww doesn't this woman have ANY
self control???" OR, when they are thinner and more energetic and
healthier due to their eating habits it's "Look at this chick, she's
gone all weird and will not eat anything we offer!!"

Well, I never claimed society is rationnal... But since we have to live in
it, there is some level of adaptation to have. One is to find a way to make
your eating habits society friendly and another is to try to change society
(through fat acceptance for instance).

But what else is new, life is full of double standards.

Yup. But they're not that hard to manage actually. Besides, some of these
standards are actually what keeps cooking tradition alive - over the course
of your life, it makes sure you will eat plenty of different cooking
traditions. In a country where you have different cooking styles every
100km, it's an important way of keeping diversity alive. It also means kids
have a hard time living on a burger and fries only diet, since they too are
expected to eat what is given to them instead of bringing their own food
with them.