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Wesley clark just entered the race



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 21st, 2003, 08:14 AM
M.W. Smith
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race

Sorry. I gave you the last word, but I wrote this before I remembered.

HealthNutz wrote:
Why a country would permit non-citizens to vote is beyond me.


It is beyond you probably because you have never thought about it, and
probably because you have never lived and worked for a period of years
in another country. Norway recognized that all the people who live and
work in Norway as residents of Norway, who pay quite high taxes to help
run the country, are just like citizens of Norway, except that they
don't have a Norwegian passport.

You would be well advised to use the freedoms given to you and Norway by
American blood and material wisely. And that should probably include at
least not bad-mouthing those that gave, so that you can preen and revel in
your freedom...


Well, I haven't bad-mouthed anyone who gave, so I don't know what you
are talking about. But the Norwegians fought right alongside the US in
WWII. Quite a lot of them gave, as you say. In fact, it was Norwegians
who prevented the Germans from developing the atomic bomb, but let that
pass. No freedoms were given to me or the Norwegians by the US. The US
ought to represent democracy and human rights much better than it is
these days.


You are absolutely correct on at least one point:
I *don't* give a damn what the world thinks of American policies.


That was my point. ...and now you have the last word.

martin

--
Wesley Clark for President
www.AmericansForClark.com

Martin Smith
  #12  
Old September 21st, 2003, 09:56 AM
ange
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race



You would be well advised to use the freedoms given to you and Norway by
American blood and material wisely. And that should probably include at
least not bad-mouthing those that gave, so that you can preen and revel in
your freedom...


Freedom isn't and wasn't yours to give. Yes there was a war, and yes,
the wellbeing of many countries was in jeapordy, including the USA, from
the actions of aggressors during the second world war. But please do
not try and take some kind of moral high ground about selfless actions.
More than 30 million people died in that war, of which 285,000 were
American. That was people fighting for their freedom, experiencing
invasion and occupation that has impacted on their psyches for
generations. It seems to me many Americans need to travel more, and
actually find out what the rest of the world is like. Even President
Bush had not stepped on foreign soil when he became president.
Unbelievable for such an influential person on the world stage. The USA
has been acting like a big baby in a sandpit, grabbing all the toys
because it can. Listen to yourself "you would be well advised to..."
Big bully. You don't have a clue what other cultures are like, all you
see is some strange sanitized version of what your media manipulators
want you to see. Wake up!!!
  #13  
Old September 21st, 2003, 10:45 AM
Lexin
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race

"HealthNutz" wrote:
You would be well advised to use the freedoms given to you and Norway

by
American blood and material wisely.


Actually, your statement above should read, "...freedoms given to you
and Norway by the blood and sacrifice of the people of the USSR,
Britain, France (though they were overrun), Greece, Australia, New
Zealand, Norway itself and America" (and probably a whole host of people
I've forgotten). Of the 30m people or so who died in WW2, around a
third - 10m - were from the USSR. I don't see people in the US - have
never seen them - giving credit to the Russians, who were at the time
communists, for their freedom. The history of the Russians in WW2 is
long and complicated, and I don't propose to go over it here, but the
sacrifice can hardly be denied.

--
Lexin
www.redrosepress.co.uk
www.livejournal.com/~lexin
LC since 9 June 2003
(300/263/182)


  #14  
Old September 21st, 2003, 01:49 PM
GordySumner
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race

"Barry Smith" wrote in message ...
"Dawn Taylor" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:32:25 -0700, "Jake"
announced in front of God and
everybody:

Gotcha. Sorry, but I dont know a single solitary person who doesn't vote
because they feel "disenfranchised" or whatever the liberal tagline is at
the moment. I do, on the other hand know dozens of people who don't even
know what month the election occurs in.


I'm genuinely curious as to why you think that is. Seriously. Why do
you think people don't care about elections? Why they don't bother to
vote on measures and tax increses and the like?

I submit -- and feel free to disagree -- that it's because they don't
think their voices make a difference. I think a great many people have
just rolled over and given up, because they believe that the vast
political machine is driven not by democracy but by money and power --
and that it'll continue to be corrupt and ****ed up whether they go to
the polls or not. So they shrug it off, don't bother to remember when
election day is, open another beer and watch some TV.

That's what I mean by "disenfranchised," by the way. I don't believe
it's mere laziness -- it's ennui borne of a feeling of hopelessness.

Dawn

I think a lot of people believe that the major political parties are just
the same.. like 2 different teams wearing different colours, but basically
the same, and that whoever wins the election, nothing will really change..


Yes, you are absolutely right. They do think that. It's hard to
believe they still think that after what has happened over the last 2
1/5 years though.
  #15  
Old September 21st, 2003, 05:25 PM
HealthNutz
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race

Absolutely spot-on, "Lexin". You're correct on all points.

I seem to have again run afoul of my desire to make something understandable
to a liberal. I work hard at not overloading their simple-minded ability to
understand and grasp reality...and sometimes over-simplify.

I stand corrected and grateful that you took the time to point that out...

DustyB


"Lexin" wrote in message
...
"HealthNutz" wrote:
You would be well advised to use the freedoms given to you and Norway

by
American blood and material wisely.


Actually, your statement above should read, "...freedoms given to you
and Norway by the blood and sacrifice of the people of the USSR,
Britain, France (though they were overrun), Greece, Australia, New
Zealand, Norway itself and America" (and probably a whole host of people

....


  #16  
Old September 21st, 2003, 07:16 PM
Carmen
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race

HealthNutz,
Just so you don't waste your time, please don't bother answering any of
my posts.

Carmen
  #17  
Old September 21st, 2003, 07:36 PM
Carmen
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race


On 21-Sep-2003, (Chet Hayes) wrote:

Carmen wrote:
The incidents where air crews were allowed to throw Arab
appearing passengers off planes because they "made them nervous"
didn't arouse a general
outcry either.


Chet wrote:
I thought the issue was what the US govt was doing, not one isolated
airline crew? Of the thousands of flights everyday, this happened
what once, maybe twice, yet it troubles you so and there is supposed
to be some public outcry over it? Without specifics, it's impossible
to know exactly what went on and who was right. There are far more
instances of flight crews having to deal with unruly passengers on a
regular basis. I'd much rather see flight crews have broad discretion
instead of tying their hands. Anyone treated unfairly has remedies
available in the civil courts and I'm sure the ACLU will be more than
happy to help them.


Carmen:
My point was that the American government, which is supposed to be the
protector of our rights, did nothing to protect the rights of the
minority in this case. In the instances that came to light the
passengers weren't removed from the planes because of *behavior* - that
would be appropriate - they were removed because of *appearance*.

Carmen wrote:
The detention of people in jails without access to
lawyers and without charges being brought against them, the
denial of
access to the subpoenas used to detain some of these people on
the
government's insistence that the information was "secret" have
been noted and
forgotten.


Chet wrote:
Those that have been captured abroad are enemy combatants captured in
a war and are not US citizens. Did we provide a lawyer for those
captured in any previous war? Personally, I hope the military is
using evey means possible to extract info from these terrorists to
save lives.
There are a few people who are US citizens in all this that I would
agree are being treated unfairly. One is the Padilla (spelling) guy
from Chicago who was arrested for working with Al Qaida and has been
held for many months without access to a lawyer.


Carmen wrote:
This is the sort of person I was talking about - Americans, living in
America.

Chet wrote:
BTW, do you have any complaints about what the great liberal President
Roosevelt did when he locked up all the Japanese Americans during
WWII? Does it trouble you that there was no public outcry at the time
over that one?


Carmen wrote:
Hell yes! Racism is racism, regardless of the particular skin pigment
involved. Don't you see? We did that, within memory of people who are
alive right now, and *still* there was no outcry when some people
started talking along the same track - identity cards for
Arab-Americans? That ought to have set off a klaxon of alarm bells. It
didn't.

Carmen wrote:
Yet people like Chet will castigate me in one post for my views,
challenging me to produce instances of abusive behaviors on the
government's part, then remain strangely silent when I post those
instances. Hmmm...


Chet wrote:
Never have to worry about silence here. This is the first specifics
I've seen from you.


Carmen:
You didn't comment on them until I noted that you hadn't. They were
made the day *before* you said I hadn't provided specifics. The post
you responded to, which this is in turn a response to, was made the
18th. Your post asking for specifics was made the *19th*.


Carmen
  #18  
Old September 21st, 2003, 09:40 PM
HealthNutz
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race

"ange" wrote in message
...
....
Freedom isn't and wasn't yours to give. Yes there was a war, and yes,

Nor yours to throw away to appease those that would steal it from me!

Something you liberals never seem to grasp: freedom, is not free. You can
not "bequeath it" to or confer it upon someone. It must be wrested from
those that would deny it to you. Guarded jealously. And fought for without
quarter when threatened. If it's not worth your life to get and hold
freedom, then you are a waste of protoplasm and a ready stooge for the next
dictator that comes along.

Wiser men by far than I, have put it far more eloquently:
"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which
is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and
has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of
better men than himself."-John Stuart Mills

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not
your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May
your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our
countrymen." - Samuel Adams 1776

the wellbeing of many countries was in jeopardy, including the USA, from

Yes. And PUT into jeopardy because other countries were staffed by feckless
cowards unwilling to fight for their own freedom (that does not, of course,
apply to those countries too small and weak to mount a defense against a
larger, better armed aggressor), visionaries too blind to see the past, and
thinkers too dulled with local and private matters to take stock that their
country--nay, their whole way of life--was being threatened, UNTIL IT WAS
LOST!

the actions of aggressors during the second world war. But please do
not try and take some kind of moral high ground about selfless actions.
More than 30 million people died in that war, of which 285,000 were

Yes. That is true. But, you should have added, most of those deaths were
at the hands of totalitarian/socialists--the very class of people that
liberals try their best to imitate, and from which they constantly seek to
curry favor.

So, you would have me take a "moral low ground" instead? Do you really
think that by standing next to you, it would be a benefit to me? To
freedom? Are you truly so naive?

....
because it can. Listen to yourself "you would be well advised to..."
Big bully. You don't have a clue what other cultures are like, all you
see is some strange sanitized version of what your media manipulators
want you to see. Wake up!!!

You sound like a child, you silly-ninny. Grow up! See if you can blink
through your tears enough to get a grip on freedom and liberty. Then look
me in the eye and tell me that you're "okay" with losing it. BTDT; didn't
like it much! If it hadn't been for the United States and her magnificent
Navy during WWII, you "Kiwi's" would be eating your mutton with chopsticks
today.

If you like we can compare passports and count stamps, times, and dates to
see who is well traveled...


Later all,
DustyB

--
So many idiots and fools, so few comets...
-= Remove CARBS to reply =-


  #19  
Old September 21st, 2003, 09:42 PM
HealthNutz
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Default Wesley clark just entered the race

No prob. I'll just wait until you have an original thought...

DustyB
--
Wallow in ignorance if it suits you...you'll find the company just fine...


"Carmen " wrote in message
...
HealthNutz,
Just so you don't waste your time, please don't bother answering any of
my posts.

Carmen



  #20  
Old September 21st, 2003, 10:06 PM
Carmen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wesley clark just entered the race

Hi,

Carmen wrote:
I'm an amateur radio operator, and
we're often the main means of communication left standing in cases of
disasters affecting the electrical grid and/or substantial
infrastructure damage.


Crescent Mu_n wrote:
You remind me of my brother-in-law's now deceased father. I worked
with Manfred in an old, unairconditioned warehouse every summer a
block or so off the Mississippi. He was Signal
Corp/Anniston/McClellan/Colonel and had a basement full of ham gear.
I loved that man. He was the first to bring MI to my attention, we
talked for hours about his war experiences (Korea), geography and, of
course, emergency management situations.
He got exposed at Annistion, fought throat cancer.


Carmen:
Manfred sounds like he got around. :-) My "Elmer" (ham version of
"mentor") has a similar background in Signal Corp, retired military too.
His era was Vietnam though.
Have you ever thought about getting a license? I know when you looked
at Manfred's equipment you might have just seen a pile of metal with
lots of knobs but there's a wide array of niches available.
* Slow scan TV: passing pictures over the air via radio waves after
they've been digitized.
* Amateur TV: passing video over the air.
* Microwave frequency work. (A ham was responsible for developing
spread spectrum, frequency hopping technology.)
* Satellite work - you can use amateur satellites to work long distances
with low power by using the satellite as a rebroadcasting device.
* APRS: Using a GPSr and amateur radio to create a "tracking system".
* PSK31: Uses radio waves to pass text information realtime over the air
from one computer to another.
* Talk to the International Space Station.
* Fox Hunts: A transponder is hidden that emits a signal and using
triangulation techniques is hunted down.
* Morse Code or CW: This is still a viable option that's capable of
punching messages through on low power over long distances.
I know I probably sound like a recruiter, but it really is a good hobby,
although depending on what one does with it it can become a great deal
more. :-)

Carmen wrote:
I'm an Army MARS operator, so the 16 line format
used for messages is familiar to me, but for the vast majority of
hams who
were never military or aren't involved with MARS it teaches things
like that as well. Useful training, and it will stand communities in
good
stead for the usual disasters, not just terrorist attacks.


Crescent Mu_n wrote:
Your service is appreciated. I'm sure Sarge is proud of you.
Where in Tennessee? You don't have to answer.


Carmen:
Sarge and I have similar outlooks on this sort of thing - the pride is
mutual.
We live in Clarksville, which is one of the communities that surrounds
Fort Campbell. It's about 45 minutes north of Nashville.

In reference to PDF417 codes on drivers' licenses
Crescent Mu_n wrote:
Guess who has figured out how to stuff your fingerprint, encrypted,
into that format?
Guess who has figured out how to stuff your DNA encoding, encrypted,
into that format?


Carmen:
Um, let me guess. The military branch of the gov't?
I know that the DNA samples they took from military folks can be used to
positively identify remains in the case of deaths that cause massive
tissue destruction like plane crashes, but it's the other possible uses
that give me pause.
Sometimes it would be nice not to think so much....

Take care,
Carmen
 




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