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How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 21st, 2010, 04:38 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
jay[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

... the VLDL of 45 would freak me out. Last test I had,
put my VLDL at 18 in a range of 5 - 45.


If a high VLDL results primarily from excess fruit consumption,
would it be OK, since the accompanying antioxidants
and phytochemicals would prevent any serious problems.
Might this not occur during fall when gorging to store fat for winter?

Look at http://hp2010.nhlbihin.net/atpiii/calculator.asp
May be comforting, maybe not.


The calculator wouldn't take 418.
(It expects a number between 130 amd 320)

There is a very animated debated going on about what causes CHD, yeah,
still. I strongly recommend you get the following book from the library,
so that you can know what the debate is about...


Thx.

Oh, my total cholesterol is 300.


Hmmm. We can start a club

When we eat excess carbs,
it gets stored in adipose, in liver and in muscles.
If it isn't cleared, it shows up in blood measurements as high blood
glucose.

When we eat excess fats, how is it stored?
If the amount eaten exceeds that which we can burn,
does the body package the extra in LDLs
and this shows up in the blood test?

When we eat excess protein, how is it stored?
I imagine some of it converted to glycogen and glucose by the liver.
Some enters cell to be burned.
Does the excess mostly stay in the blood?
How would we even know we have excess protein?
Is there a common blood measurement for this?
  #2  
Old August 21st, 2010, 07:07 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
Billy[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

In article
,
jay wrote:

... the VLDL of 45 would freak me out. Last test I had,
put my VLDL at 18 in a range of 5 - 45.


If a high VLDL results primarily from excess fruit consumption,
would it be OK, since the accompanying antioxidants
and phytochemicals would prevent any serious problems.
Might this not occur during fall when gorging to store fat for winter?

Look at http://hp2010.nhlbihin.net/atpiii/calculator.asp
May be comforting, maybe not.


The calculator wouldn't take 418.
(It expects a number between 130 amd 320)

There is a very animated debated going on about what causes CHD, yeah,
still. I strongly recommend you get the following book from the library,
so that you can know what the debate is about...


Thx.

Oh, my total cholesterol is 300.


Hmmm. We can start a club

When we eat excess carbs,
it gets stored in adipose, in liver and in muscles.
If it isn't cleared, it shows up in blood measurements as high blood
glucose.

The problem, in part is called glycation, where sugars are attached to
proteins, which inturn can cause cataracts, and condensation of red
blood cells that lead to loss of toes, to a whole slew of other
undesirable events.
Secondly, the BG elicits insulin, which brings its own set of problems.

Sorry, I'm not sharper on this. I've read up on it and would have to go
back and read Taubes again so that I didn't insert a couple of brain
farts into my answers. An easier to read, shorter version can be found
in "The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability" by Lierre
Keith
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myt...ability/dp/160
4860804/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281718588&sr=1-1

Available at better libraries near you.

When we eat excess fats, how is it stored?
If the amount eaten exceeds that which we can burn,
does the body package the extra in LDLs
and this shows up in the blood test?


The studies that Taubes presented, showed that people on high fat diets
became satiated, and without carbohydrates to encourage their appetites,
rarely ate them to excess. I suppose the worst case scenario would be
cirrhosis of the liver.

When we eat excess protein, how is it stored?
I imagine some of it converted to glycogen and glucose by the liver.
Some enters cell to be burned.
Does the excess mostly stay in the blood?
How would we even know we have excess protein?
Is there a common blood measurement for this?

The test is for ketones in the blood. This, IIRC, can be OK, but it
might also be indicative of other problems.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
  #3  
Old August 21st, 2010, 10:00 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
FOB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

I thought the ketones were from fat, showing that your body is burning fat
rather than glucose.

Billy wrote:
| The test is for ketones in the blood. This, IIRC, can be OK, but it
| might also be indicative of other problems.


  #4  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 06:05 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
Billy[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

In article ,
"FOB" wrote:

I thought the ketones were from fat, showing that your body is burning fat
rather than glucose.

Billy wrote:
| The test is for ketones in the blood. This, IIRC, can be OK, but it
| might also be indicative of other problems.


http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003585.htm

What Abnormal Results Mean
A positive test may indicate:
€ Abnormal nutritional conditions
€ Anorexia
€ Fasting
€ High protein or low carbohydrate diets
€ Starvation
€ Disorders of increased metabolism
€ Acute or severe illness
€ Burns
€ Fever
€ Hyperthyroidism
€ Nursing a baby (lactation)
€ Postsurgical condition
€ Pregnancy
€ Metabolic abnormalities, including uncontrolled diabetes or
glycogen storage disease
€ Vomiting frequently over a long period of time
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
  #5  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:23 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

jay wrote:

When we eat excess protein, how is it stored?


Cell growth uses protein. Otherwise there's comparatively little
ability to store protein. It's easy to find claims that the body can
store zero protein other than as lean mass but that seems to be a
circular argument - Protein equals lean so it's a definition. But if
you think of lean in terms of muscle mass then it stops being a circular
argument and also stops being true.

Cells can grow and shrink and that is some sort of storage mechanism for
protein. The body can store a very small amount of carbs as glycogen,
a couple of days of less. The body can store vast amounts of fat. How of
protein can be stored is obscured by claims that the amount is zero but
it isn't large. Muscle loss starts happening fast in stavation diets.
Since muscle loss is lower on low carb systems that's yet another reason
to understand that ketosis is the result of a success predator diet not
the result of a starvation diet. The fact that ketosis happens during
starvation does not mean it equals starvation. Sleep happens during
starvation so anyone who sleeps is starving, right?

I imagine some of it converted to glycogen and glucose by the liver.
Some enters cell to be burned.
Does the excess mostly stay in the blood?
How would we even know we have excess protein?
Is there a common blood measurement for this?


Protein not used by the cells (including some very difficult to
determine amount of storage that is limited and slow to build) is burned
as fuel into glucose. It's why people on high protein diets see a rise
in blood sugar.

Amino acids have nitrogen - amonia, urea, uric acid. Any test for these
nitrogen products in the urine will show it. If there's any amonia at
all something is wrong. It's supposed to get converted long before it
makes it to the kidneys.
  #6  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:47 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
FOB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

Those are symptoms, not the item detected by the strips.

"When glycogen stores are not available in the cells, fat (triacylglycerol)
is cleaved to give 3 fatty acid chains and 1 glycerol molecule in a process
called lipolysis. Most of the body is able to utilize fatty acids as an
alternative source of energy in a process called beta-oxidation. One of the
products of beta-oxidation is acetyl-CoA, which can be further used in the
Krebs cycle. During prolonged fasting or starvation, acetyl-CoA in the liver
is used to produce ketone bodies instead, leading to a state of ketosis.
During starvation or a long physical training session, the body starts
utilizing fatty acids instead of glucose. The brain cannot use fatty acids
for energy because the fatty acids cannot cross the blood-brain barrier.
However, the ketone bodies produced in the liver can cross the blood-brain
barrier. In the brain, these ketone bodies are then incorporated into
acetyl-CoA and used in the Krebs cycle."

Billy wrote:
|
| http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003585.htm
|
| What Abnormal Results Mean
| A positive test may indicate:
| € Abnormal nutritional conditions
| € Anorexia
| € Fasting
| € High protein or low carbohydrate diets
| € Starvation
| € Disorders of increased metabolism
| € Acute or severe illness
| € Burns
| € Fever
| € Hyperthyroidism
| € Nursing a baby (lactation)
| € Postsurgical condition
| € Pregnancy
| € Metabolic abnormalities, including uncontrolled diabetes or
| glycogen storage disease
| € Vomiting frequently over a long period of time


  #7  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 05:58 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
Billy[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

In article ,
"FOB" wrote:

Those are symptoms, not the item detected by the strips.

"When glycogen stores are not available in the cells, fat (triacylglycerol)
is cleaved to give 3 fatty acid chains and 1 glycerol molecule in a process
called lipolysis. Most of the body is able to utilize fatty acids as an
alternative source of energy in a process called beta-oxidation. One of the
products of beta-oxidation is acetyl-CoA, which can be further used in the
Krebs cycle. During prolonged fasting or starvation, acetyl-CoA in the liver
is used to produce ketone bodies instead, leading to a state of ketosis.
During starvation or a long physical training session, the body starts
utilizing fatty acids instead of glucose. The brain cannot use fatty acids
for energy because the fatty acids cannot cross the blood-brain barrier.
However, the ketone bodies produced in the liver can cross the blood-brain
barrier. In the brain, these ketone bodies are then incorporated into
acetyl-CoA and used in the Krebs cycle."

Billy wrote:

And the question I was answering was,"I thought the ketones were from
fat, showing that your body is burning fat rather than glucose."
You're welcome to keep free associating, but I answered the question
that you posed.
|
| http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003585.htm
|
| What Abnormal Results Mean
| A positive test may indicate:
|
|

(snip)
| € High protein or low carbohydrate diets

(snip)
|

--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
  #8  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 06:06 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
Billy[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

In article ,
"FOB" wrote:

Those are symptoms, not the item detected by the strips.

These are not sypmtoms, they are causes. Ketones are probably the
natural fuel for the brain, as our 2 million year old bodies have only
had access to substantial grain, a part from seasonal fruit, for the
last 10,000 years.

"When glycogen stores are not available in the cells, fat (triacylglycerol)
is cleaved to give 3 fatty acid chains and 1 glycerol molecule in a process
called lipolysis. Most of the body is able to utilize fatty acids as an
alternative source of energy in a process called beta-oxidation. One of the
products of beta-oxidation is acetyl-CoA, which can be further used in the
Krebs cycle. During prolonged fasting or starvation, acetyl-CoA in the liver
is used to produce ketone bodies instead, leading to a state of ketosis.
During starvation or a long physical training session, the body starts
utilizing fatty acids instead of glucose. The brain cannot use fatty acids
for energy because the fatty acids cannot cross the blood-brain barrier.
However, the ketone bodies produced in the liver can cross the blood-brain
barrier. In the brain, these ketone bodies are then incorporated into
acetyl-CoA and used in the Krebs cycle."

Billy wrote:
|
| http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003585.htm
|
| What Abnormal Results Mean
| A positive test may indicate:
| € Abnormal nutritional conditions
| € Anorexia
| € Fasting
| € High protein or low carbohydrate diets
| € Starvation
| € Disorders of increased metabolism
| € Acute or severe illness
| € Burns
| € Fever
| € Hyperthyroidism
| € Nursing a baby (lactation)
| € Postsurgical condition
| € Pregnancy
| € Metabolic abnormalities, including uncontrolled diabetes or
| glycogen storage disease
| € Vomiting frequently over a long period of time

--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html
  #9  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 06:16 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
FOB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

And you were answering:
| When we eat excess protein, how is it stored?
| I imagine some of it converted to glycogen and glucose by the liver.
| Some enters cell to be burned.
| Does the excess mostly stay in the blood?
| How would we even know we have excess protein?
| Is there a common blood measurement for this?
The test is for ketones in the blood. This, IIRC, can be OK, but it
might also be indicative of other problems.

Which gave me the impression that you were saying that ketones measured the
protein in the blood as the prior poster was asking for a test for excess
protein.

Billy wrote:
| In article ,
| "FOB" wrote:
|
|| Those are symptoms, not the item detected by the strips.
||
|| "When glycogen stores are not available in the cells, fat
|| (triacylglycerol) is cleaved to give 3 fatty acid chains and 1
|| glycerol molecule in a process called lipolysis. Most of the body is
|| able to utilize fatty acids as an alternative source of energy in a
|| process called beta-oxidation. One of the products of beta-oxidation
|| is acetyl-CoA, which can be further used in the Krebs cycle. During
|| prolonged fasting or starvation, acetyl-CoA in the liver is used to
|| produce ketone bodies instead, leading to a state of ketosis. During
|| starvation or a long physical training session, the body starts
|| utilizing fatty acids instead of glucose. The brain cannot use fatty
|| acids for energy because the fatty acids cannot cross the
|| blood-brain barrier. However, the ketone bodies produced in the
|| liver can cross the blood-brain barrier. In the brain, these ketone
|| bodies are then incorporated into acetyl-CoA and used in the Krebs
|| cycle."
||
|| Billy wrote:
| And the question I was answering was,"I thought the ketones were from
| fat, showing that your body is burning fat rather than glucose."
| You're welcome to keep free associating, but I answered the question
| that you posed.
|||
||| http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003585.htm
|||
||| What Abnormal Results Mean
||| A positive test may indicate:
|||
|||
| (snip)
||| € High protein or low carbohydrate diets
| (snip)


  #10  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:22 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default How To Lower Cholesterol on Low-Carb Diet?

FOB (removethis) wrote:

Those are symptoms, not the item detected by the strips.


Eating excess protein does not lead to ketones that I have ever read.
Through glycation proteins are converted to glucose and glucose turns
off the production of ketones.

"When glycogen stores are not available in the cells, fat (triacylglycerol)
is cleaved to give 3 fatty acid chains and 1 glycerol molecule in a process
called lipolysis. Most of the body is able to utilize fatty acids as an
alternative source of energy in a process called beta-oxidation. One of the
products of beta-oxidation is acetyl-CoA, which can be further used in the
Krebs cycle. During prolonged fasting or starvation, acetyl-CoA in the liver
is used to produce ketone bodies instead, leading to a state of ketosis.
During starvation or a long physical training session, the body starts
utilizing fatty acids instead of glucose. The brain cannot use fatty acids
for energy because the fatty acids cannot cross the blood-brain barrier.
However, the ketone bodies produced in the liver can cross the blood-brain
barrier. In the brain, these ketone bodies are then incorporated into
acetyl-CoA and used in the Krebs cycle."


Level one, cutting the fat into the fatty acids and glycerol - Two
glycerols are combined to make a glucose. About 10% of the energy from
fat is in the form of this glucose. I tend to think of it as
establishing a background for glucose that's well above zero.

Level two, burning the fatty acids for fuel - You described the two
paths. The acetyl-CoA path does not generate any ketones that end up in
the urine and that's how fat can be burned on non-ketotic diet plans.
There's a speed limit to it. Marathon training works to increase that
speed limit. The ketone path is used as an additional method and so it
means when there are ketones in the urine your body is burning fat
faster than the limit of the acetyl-CoA method. It means faster.
 




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