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Benefits of ketogenic diets



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 14th, 2012, 05:30 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
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Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

On Dec 11, 3:00*pm, Susan wrote:


The problem with that argument is it boils down to most/all low carbers
staying at Induction levels. *Which is yet another reason why I stress
that "following the directions" includes not digging for excuses to stay
on phase 1 of a 4 phase process.


One doesn't need an excuse when Dr. Atkins said in his book that there's
nothing wrong with staying at induction levels if one is content and all
is going well. *He was right. *The "if" matters.



Thank you. Doug has been lying about this for years,
misrepresenting Atkins.
Like you, I can read what Atkins wrote. If Doug wants
to offer his alternative plan, I have no problem with it.
But I do have a problem when he continues to claim that
Atkins said you have to move up from induction, that you
shouldn't extend it. I also have a problem when he claims
that it's going to make you stall. Where is the study
that shows that? crickets.

Actually as you point out, Atkins was very positive towards
those that wanted to stay at induction levels longer. One of
the questions he posed for those considering whether to
stay in induction was whether they had a lot of weight to
lose. It would be mighty strange to encourage people who
have more weight to lose to stay at induction level if Atkins
knew they would lose more weight by going higher.

In my personal experience, I've always lost the most
weight when at or close to induction level. Now, who
should I believe? Atkins and my scale, or Doug?




  #22  
Old December 14th, 2012, 05:33 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
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Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

On Dec 11, 5:55*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Susan wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:


... Because low
carbing has us not hungry, so it might have monkeys not hungry and, so I
thought until the results of that study came out, have also resulted in
longevity benefits.


I have never had appetite suppression by low carb. Lessening, perhaps,
but I am often hungry when I should not be.


That sucks. *You're hungry when on low fat and hungry when on low carb.

I think a
higher pecentage of the population are not hungry while low carbing than
while low fatting but I am not aware of any study done to confirm that
opinion.


Seriously? *You haven't seen those studies where low carbers were told
to eat until satisfied and low fatters stuck to low cal and lost half
the weight on 50% less calories? *Start with the Schneider Peds study..


Those studies do not report who was hungry. *They report who ate how
many calories and who lost how much.

I think it true but would need studies to be certain it's
true. *I do know that some are constantly hungry while low carbing the
way I was constantly hungry while I was low fatting.


There have been studies, have you never sought them out?


Where are the studies that report on hunger levels? *They are not the
studies were free eating low carbers lost at first better and and later
as well as calorie restricted low fatters.

Before you mentioned cortisol I do not believe any major figure in the
low carb field addressed the topic with any significant effort.


Nope, and certainly not Dr. Atkins. *In fact, his suggestion of a fat
fast for resistant dieters would allow cortisol to rise even more due to
lowered insulin levels (high insulin levels lower adrenal steroid
synthesis and also CBG, the cortisol transport protein).


To me your interest in the topic of cortisol triggers a major advance in
the understanding of low carb metabolism. *It added a deeper
understanding for me when I studied the topic.

One of the several arguments lodged against low carbing is that going
very low effects cortisol levels and that change in cortisol levels
causes irritability that drives people off low carbing.


I was a jittery, sleepless, anxious mess for three weeks, but I stuck
with it and adapted.


Yikes. *When I went through my first Induction I was a jittery sleepless
mess for a couple of day then I adjusted.

The problem with that argument is it boils down to most/all low carbers
staying at Induction levels. *Which is yet another reason why I stress
that "following the directions" includes not digging for excuses to stay
on phase 1 of a 4 phase process.


One doesn't need an excuse when Dr. Atkins said in his book that there's
nothing wrong with staying at induction levels if one is content and all
is going well. *He was right. *The "if" matters.


The "if" matters. *It's also ignored by some here who deny that anyone
stalls starting about day 15 when they stay at 20. *I've seen very many
people reporting that. *It happens.



You know, you and you're "reporting" are just amazing.
It's like you're running some real lab here and you have valid
results.
In actuality, the group here is pretty much dead. I don't
see people reporting, tabulating anything. All you're doing
is "seeing" what your eyes want to see, disregarding the rest
and then calling it established fact. At the same time,
you lie about what Atkins said.





 




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