A Weightloss and diet forum. WeightLossBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » WeightLossBanter forum » alt.support.diet newsgroups » Low Carbohydrate Diets
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Fruit's phytochemicals without the sugar? By yogurt?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 2nd, 2012, 04:27 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Fruit's phytochemicals without the sugar? By yogurt?

I've recently gone from low-carb to very-low-carb eating. I'm trying to get below 20 g/d. (And HOORAY has it done great things for my blood sugars! Also much less hunger while I'm dropping weight.) One of the things I've cut is fruits. And I miss 'em.

Is there a way to get the phytochemicals from fruits, without the sugar?

I'm thinking of live-culture yogurt. When it's packaged, it has a fair amount of lactose in it, and the label usually shows 4-8g/serving of sugar. But I've read several places that the live culture converts the lactose to lactate (lactic acid). So it doesn't increase your blood sugar at all.

Would this still work if I mashed up, and mixed in:

strawberries
cherries
blueberries
plums
beets?

Would the fermentation process kill all the antioxidants? That is, red wine seems to retain the antioxidants of the grapes, but preservation depletes the antioxidants in olives.

For a while in my childhood, my mother kept a crock of yeasty fruit on the counter, which got kind of sour and kind of alcoholic. She called it "brandied fruit." I wonder...

Adam
  #2  
Old December 2nd, 2012, 06:54 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 993
Default Fruit's phytochemicals without the sugar? By yogurt?

On Dec 2, 10:27*am, wrote:
I've recently gone from low-carb to very-low-carb eating. *I'm trying to get below 20 g/d. *(And HOORAY has it done great things for my blood sugars! *Also much less hunger while I'm dropping weight.) *One of the things I've cut is fruits. *And I miss 'em.

Is there a way to get the phytochemicals from fruits, without the sugar?

I'm thinking of live-culture yogurt. * When it's packaged, it has a fair amount of lactose in it, and the label usually shows 4-8g/serving of sugar. *But I've read several places that the live culture converts the lactose to lactate (lactic acid). *So it doesn't increase your blood sugar at all.

Would this still work if I mashed up, and mixed in:

* * strawberries
* * cherries
* * blueberries
* * plums
* * beets?

Would the fermentation process kill all the antioxidants? *That is, red wine seems to retain the antioxidants of the grapes, but preservation depletes the antioxidants in olives.

For a while in my childhood, my mother kept a crock of yeasty fruit on the counter, which got kind of sour and kind of alcoholic. *She called it "brandied fruit." *I wonder...

Adam


The bigger question here would be why you want or need
to go below 20g a day? That's less than even the 20g
permitted on Atkins induction. I have no problem with
people who want to stay at that level for awhile, but one
of the obvious problems is that it limits not only fruits,
but other vegetables choices as well. It doesn't take
much in the way of even LC vegs to get to 20g.

Also, fruits are not the only source of phytochemicals.
They are contained in most other plants as well. So,
you could probably get the same things you're getting
in fruit from LC vegetables. But then when I did induction
I wasn't worried about all the possible nutrients because
the induction level of carb is typically only 2 weeks. And
even if you extend it to a couple months, it's not like
you're going to be at 20g of carb and that limited in food
choices forever.
  #3  
Old December 2nd, 2012, 08:55 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default Fruit's phytochemicals without the sugar? By yogurt?

wrote:
wrote:

I've recently gone from low-carb to very-low-carb eating. *I'm trying
to get below 20 g/d. *(And HOORAY has it done great things for my blood
sugars! *Also much less hunger while I'm dropping weight.)


Just to check -

You don't think that lower carb gives faster loss do you? it can happen
temporarily but in general it's a false assumption. Once in ketosis
changing carb grams does nothing to effect the rate of fat coming out of
storage. The impact can come from lower total calories if you don't
replace them with fat calories. But higher fat calories do increase the
rate of ketosis pulling fat out of storage faster. Stay too low and in
various time frames two weeks to a year T3 then leptin then cortisol
levels interfere with benefits of lower carb. The idea of CCLL is that
it's optimal for the entire length of the loss phase.

One thing to wonder about when going very low in carb is the possibility
of a previously unknown intolerance food. Some food that makes you more
hungry not less hungry when you eat it. This is in addition to the
insulin swing effect. Any level in ketosis has no insulin swing effect
so if you get less hungry by going lower than the carb grams necessary
to get into ketosis then you likely did that by eliminating several
specific ingredients. Watch carefully how your body reacts when you add
those ingredients back in - One can be a food that makes you more hungry
not less.

One of the things I've cut is fruits. *And I miss 'em.


Arguably my favorite fruits are cucumbers and tomatoes. Very low and
medium low in carb grams respectively. Let's see if that helps you take
on a different conception of what fruit are. They are usually veggies
that have a pretty skin and extra sugar.

Is there a way to get the phytochemicals from fruits, without the sugar?


Fermentation. Dry red wine. Dry hard cider. Unsweetened fruit
brandies.

I'm thinking of live-culture yogurt. * When it's packaged, it has a
fair amount of lactose in it, and the label usually shows 4-8g/serving
of sugar. *But I've read several places that the live culture converts
the lactose to lactate (lactic acid). *So it doesn't increase your
blood sugar at all.


Fermentation, right.

Would this still work if I mashed up, and mixed in:


* * strawberries
* * cherries
* * blueberries
* * plums
* * beets?


Would the fermentation process kill all the antioxidants? *That is, red
wine seems to retain the antioxidants of the grapes, but preservation
depletes the antioxidants in olives.


For a while in my childhood, my mother kept a crock of yeasty fruit on
the counter, which got kind of sour and kind of alcoholic. *She called
it "brandied fruit." *I wonder...


The problem is you can estimate the carb count before the fermentation,
and you can estimate the carb count after the fermentation runs to
completion if it does run to completion, but you can't while the
fermentation is still running. The mash would need to ferment for at
least a month.

It would take a bunch of experimentation to get the result right. It
can get bacterial infections and come out nasty all the way though using
a brewers airlock to keep it pure and ending up possibly great possibly
disgusting. Fun experiment though.

The bigger question here would be why you want or need
to go below 20g a day? That's less than even the 20g
permitted on Atkins induction. I have no problem with
people who want to stay at that level for awhile, but one
of the obvious problems is that it limits not only fruits,
but other vegetables choices as well. It doesn't take
much in the way of even LC vegs to get to 20g.


It's definitely a low easier to get all of those phytochemicals from the
veggies on the Atkins ultra-low list aka salad list than it is to start
with fruit and ferment the carbs out of them.

Also, fruits are not the only source of phytochemicals.
They are contained in most other plants as well. So,
you could probably get the same things you're getting
in fruit from LC vegetables. But then when I did induction
I wasn't worried about all the possible nutrients because
the induction level of carb is typically only 2 weeks. And
even if you extend it to a couple months, it's not like
you're going to be at 20g of carb and that limited in food
choices forever.


So understand that it's only one phase of a four phase process. Plan to
go higher later. The issue is more than how long to extend it's what
impact extending for longer has. This discussion of phytochemicals
becomes irrelevant if the phases are followed. And so that remains the
best advice - Follow the phases.
  #4  
Old December 3rd, 2012, 01:31 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 993
Default Fruit's phytochemicals without the sugar? By yogurt?

On Dec 2, 2:55*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
wrote:
wrote:


I've recently gone from low-carb to very-low-carb eating. *I'm trying
to get below 20 g/d. *(And HOORAY has it done great things for my blood
sugars! *Also much less hunger while I'm dropping weight.)


Just to check -

You don't think that lower carb gives faster loss do you? *it can happen
temporarily but in general it's a false assumption. *Once in ketosis
changing carb grams does nothing to effect the rate of fat coming out of
storage.


Here we go again. I'd like to see a reference on that.
And we've been over this a dozen times. You claim
Atkins said it. I've given you page after page of reference
where he has said exactly the opposite. Words to the
effect that before considering whether to remain in
induction or move on, you should ask yourself if you
have a lot to lose. He pointed out that if you're doing
fine, it was OK to stay in induction. And it would be
very strange for him to recommend those with a lot
to lose consider staying in induction if it did not make
the weight come off faster. I have never seen anything
he wrote that says that upping
your carbs will not slow your weight loss. I know it
does for me personally. And I've seen people here
over the years that couldn't lose unless they stayed
at or close to induction levels.

If you have any references for us to look at, that support
what you claim, from Atkins or anyone else, now would
be a good time.






  #5  
Old December 3rd, 2012, 03:27 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Fruit's phytochemicals without the sugar? By yogurt?

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:55:20 PM UTC-6, Doug Freyburger wrote:

Stay too low and in
various time frames two weeks to a year T3 then leptin then cortisol
levels interfere with benefits of lower carb.


I've seen that claim repeatedly on the web. But the only published studies I could find on it were mouse models. I even wrote to Jeff Volek (who wrote the most recent Atkins book) and he said

From: "Volek, Jeff"
Subject: Does Very Low Carb + Intense exercise cause Testosterone Drop?
Date: Nov 30, 2012 4:29 AM

Hi [Adam],

I have done a lot of work on testosterone, including its regulation by
diet. We have measured testosterone in many of our studies examining
effects of well formulated low carbohydrate diets and never observed a
decrease. In fact, a significant body of research indicates that low fat
diets are associated with lower testosterone, so if anything a higher fat
intake would protect against low testosterone.

Best,
Jeff Volek

I suspect that the key here is "WELL FORMULATED". Volek advocates a lot of careful minerals-management and he acknowledges that people who don't often either find the diets intolerable or get into trouble.
Still, if anybody has some good literature citations on the whole "low-carb + exercise = trouble(testosterone, cortisol)" thing, I'd be real interested.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grains a Good Thing: Bound antioxidant phytochemicals in grains survive intact long enough to reach the colon to prevent cancer Alan S Low Carbohydrate Diets 0 February 28th, 2006 02:44 AM
Grains a Good Thing: Bound antioxidant phytochemicals in grains survive intact long enough to reach the colon to prevent cancer Alan S Low Carbohydrate Diets 0 February 28th, 2006 02:40 AM
Grains a Good Thing: Bound antioxidant phytochemicals in grains survive intact long enough to reach the colon to prevent cancer Carmen Low Carbohydrate Diets 1 February 27th, 2006 11:04 PM
Hood's reduced sugar yogurt-good any other good yogurt? DigitalVinyl Low Carbohydrate Diets 14 August 24th, 2004 03:09 AM
Jenny/sugar alcohols and the effects on blood sugar....... JulieW Low Carbohydrate Diets 21 November 1st, 2003 03:48 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 WeightLossBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.