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#41
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Obese child abuse.
"Ralph DuBose" wrote in message om... "Ernie Sty" wrote in message ... "The Voice of Reason" wrote in message om... Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ... When a mother is ABUSING her child by brainwashing her into eating habits That is mere speculation on your part. I would say that it is extremely good speculation on his part considering that the mom was openly encouraging the kid, who was already obese, to eat lots of crap food. You are correct, I missed that part. that will cause her ill-health and an early death, then it becomes everyone else's business. That is simply an opinion. One shared by the AMA, the NIH, and the Medicare authorities. Tell us your opinion. No, it is not. The opinion I was referring to is that it is "everybody's business", not that it would cause her ill health and early death. And if you can't see that causing obesity in children is an EVIL The word "evil" is usually used as an excuse to deny someone their rights. If I label you or your actions "evil", I have not only the right but the responsibility, as an agent of good, to stop you by whatever means necessary, and that almost always means violating your rights. The thing is, real evil is extermely rare. What is often labeled "evil" are people whose actions, or those actions themselves, that are seen as being contrary to your beliefs. Sure. We have no doubt that all that your belief system sees nothing wrong with ending up with a body, fairly quickly, that is incapable of doing 90% of the things that humans have done thru the millenia. On that you are absolutely wrong. You make assumptions based on what you feel, not on what I say. You are an adult, it is your choice. But the child is innocent and is helpless and cannot defend him/herself from being trapped in a dead end doom-ride to early incapacity. Again, you make lots of assumptions here. For one, it seems that you think that a parent encouraging her child to eat lots of sweets means the child will grow up eating sweets all the time. Where is your evidence? I know people whose parents strongly discouraged their children from eating junk food. As soon as the kids left the nest, guess what happened. They went on an all-junk-food diet, all the time. I have two cousins who were raised in a house in which junk food, candy, soda, etc. was always available in abundance and encouraged. One of them grew up rail-thin, the other was always overweight from childhood. Obviously the same environment did not affect them both the same. You can guess what will happen to this child, but that's all you can do is guess. You choose to judge something as abuse based on what you believe will happen in the future. What would you do about it--ake the child away from her mother and put her in a foster home? act then YOU are the one who isn't competent. Another opinion. Obesity causes diabetes, no-one is denying that other than Fat Acceptors. Obesity causes diabetes in some people, this is true. It also causes heart disease, osteoporosis, and other nasty diseases--in some people. Bear in mind that it does not cause these diseases in everyone. Bear in mind that obesity pushes everyone in the direction of clinically apparent diabetes/hypertension, etc. Not everyones body falters under the physiological abuse caused by lots of extra fat such that a formal diagnosis becomes unavoidable. Basically the same as what I said. You might want to consider the fact that rage is rarely helpful. If you want to feel better and be healthier, I would suggest you direct your anger at seeing a fat woman with a fat daughter to raising awareness about eating disorders and the dangers of passing them on to one's children instead of into rage/posting on the internet. A stone typical response of fat acceptors to nearly any question is to grasp for the victim role A typical response from someone who doesn't have a logical arguement is to start name-calling and stereotyping, in order to build a straw man argument. I never said anything about a victim here. I never defended what the woman was doing to her daughter (though I'm sure you think that's what I'm doing, as you seem to only be able to grasp ideas which fit inside your black/white view) I believe it would be better if the woman encouraged her daughter to make healthy choices. In fact, I believe it would be better to never allow kids to taste any food that is processed such as anything containing added sugar. Processed foods themselves can cause addiction in susceptible people. But that is not the point. This is what I was referring to by "rage": "It's one thing not caring about your own body, but to poison and abuse your child, teaching it awful eating habits that will last it a lifetime, is disgusting. Obese parents should be ashamed of this evil act." For crying out loud, use a little common sense--has anyone ever changed their lifestyle as a result of accusations of being a child-poisoner, told they are disgusting or that they should be ashamed? The only result for this kind of approach is a sort of mental, masturbatory orgy of self-righteousness. There is no expressed desire to make a wrong situation right. This is rage, and is in no way constructive. Ask yourself how this attitude helps the mother or the child. Why not approach the mother, try to make friends with her, and being a caring friend, suggest reading materials which will educate her on the damage a poor diet can cause children, or offer to pay for her to visit a nutritionist, or something else that might actually help? If you think something is wrong, carrying on like that is certainly not going to change anything for the better. (you must face the "rage" of a poster who merely disagrees with you) and to invoke the spector of anorexia/eating disorders. That's just nonsense. I didn't accuse the poster of rage because they disagree with me, I accused them of rage because their original post was rageful; also I never said anything about anorexia/eating disorders. Nationwide, obesity/childhood obesity is a massive problem, dwarfing the problem of anorexia. But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem. Here is an example of what I was referring to befo your black/white, compartmentalized thinking: "But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem" You can't see that I am basically on the same side as you because you assume that everyone either agrees with you wholeheartedly, or is a "fat acceptor" whose ideas and actions follow a stereotype you have in your imagination. This makes it easy for you to avoid considering any new information, ideas, or viewpoints. Black/white thinking is a serious addiction and a far worse problem in the world than is childhood obesity. It allows you to judge as evil or wrong any viewpoint that doesn't match yours precisely, and this is a train of thought which, if followed too far, gives you an excuse to violate people's rights for virtually any reason. No one else here ever brings it up. It is a smokescreen, that is all. Or worse. Maybe you guys will say - while criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction "Criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction" implies that action *must* be taken to bring these criminals to justice in order to save the helpless victims. The problem with this is that the necessary solutions are almost certainly more harmful than no action at all. Let me give you an analogy: A Christian could argue that by their beliefs, raising a child to be anything other than a Christian is a far, far worse form of abuse than overfeeding, because the child's eternal soul will burn in Hell forever. With that belief, it would be criminal abuse to not raise children to believe anything other than Christianity, because that would be brainwashing helpless children into being followers of Satan. However, almost all Christians respect that others are free to believe what they will and to raise their children accordingly. Your belief that allowing a child to have a poor diet is "criminal overfeeding" and will cause "early food addiction" is no more valid than the aforementioned Christian's opinion; it's just your belief. Raise your own kids the way you believe, let others raise their kids by their beliefs. If you believe something requires your intervention, examine your own motives first. If you must intervene, do so with gentleness and thoughtfulness. Directing nasty accusations at someone immediately closes them off to anything you have to say, making such an intervention nothing more than an act of masturbatory self-righteousness as opposed to an effort to induce positive change. Rage is an addictive, self-destructive behavior just as compulsive overeating is. |
#42
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"Ralph DuBose" wrote in message om... "Ernie Sty" wrote in message ... "The Voice of Reason" wrote in message om... Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ... When a mother is ABUSING her child by brainwashing her into eating habits That is mere speculation on your part. I would say that it is extremely good speculation on his part considering that the mom was openly encouraging the kid, who was already obese, to eat lots of crap food. You are correct, I missed that part. that will cause her ill-health and an early death, then it becomes everyone else's business. That is simply an opinion. One shared by the AMA, the NIH, and the Medicare authorities. Tell us your opinion. No, it is not. The opinion I was referring to is that it is "everybody's business", not that it would cause her ill health and early death. And if you can't see that causing obesity in children is an EVIL The word "evil" is usually used as an excuse to deny someone their rights. If I label you or your actions "evil", I have not only the right but the responsibility, as an agent of good, to stop you by whatever means necessary, and that almost always means violating your rights. The thing is, real evil is extermely rare. What is often labeled "evil" are people whose actions, or those actions themselves, that are seen as being contrary to your beliefs. Sure. We have no doubt that all that your belief system sees nothing wrong with ending up with a body, fairly quickly, that is incapable of doing 90% of the things that humans have done thru the millenia. On that you are absolutely wrong. You make assumptions based on what you feel, not on what I say. You are an adult, it is your choice. But the child is innocent and is helpless and cannot defend him/herself from being trapped in a dead end doom-ride to early incapacity. Again, you make lots of assumptions here. For one, it seems that you think that a parent encouraging her child to eat lots of sweets means the child will grow up eating sweets all the time. Where is your evidence? I know people whose parents strongly discouraged their children from eating junk food. As soon as the kids left the nest, guess what happened. They went on an all-junk-food diet, all the time. I have two cousins who were raised in a house in which junk food, candy, soda, etc. was always available in abundance and encouraged. One of them grew up rail-thin, the other was always overweight from childhood. Obviously the same environment did not affect them both the same. You can guess what will happen to this child, but that's all you can do is guess. You choose to judge something as abuse based on what you believe will happen in the future. What would you do about it--ake the child away from her mother and put her in a foster home? act then YOU are the one who isn't competent. Another opinion. Obesity causes diabetes, no-one is denying that other than Fat Acceptors. Obesity causes diabetes in some people, this is true. It also causes heart disease, osteoporosis, and other nasty diseases--in some people. Bear in mind that it does not cause these diseases in everyone. Bear in mind that obesity pushes everyone in the direction of clinically apparent diabetes/hypertension, etc. Not everyones body falters under the physiological abuse caused by lots of extra fat such that a formal diagnosis becomes unavoidable. Basically the same as what I said. You might want to consider the fact that rage is rarely helpful. If you want to feel better and be healthier, I would suggest you direct your anger at seeing a fat woman with a fat daughter to raising awareness about eating disorders and the dangers of passing them on to one's children instead of into rage/posting on the internet. A stone typical response of fat acceptors to nearly any question is to grasp for the victim role A typical response from someone who doesn't have a logical arguement is to start name-calling and stereotyping, in order to build a straw man argument. I never said anything about a victim here. I never defended what the woman was doing to her daughter (though I'm sure you think that's what I'm doing, as you seem to only be able to grasp ideas which fit inside your black/white view) I believe it would be better if the woman encouraged her daughter to make healthy choices. In fact, I believe it would be better to never allow kids to taste any food that is processed such as anything containing added sugar. Processed foods themselves can cause addiction in susceptible people. But that is not the point. This is what I was referring to by "rage": "It's one thing not caring about your own body, but to poison and abuse your child, teaching it awful eating habits that will last it a lifetime, is disgusting. Obese parents should be ashamed of this evil act." For crying out loud, use a little common sense--has anyone ever changed their lifestyle as a result of accusations of being a child-poisoner, told they are disgusting or that they should be ashamed? The only result for this kind of approach is a sort of mental, masturbatory orgy of self-righteousness. There is no expressed desire to make a wrong situation right. This is rage, and is in no way constructive. Ask yourself how this attitude helps the mother or the child. Why not approach the mother, try to make friends with her, and being a caring friend, suggest reading materials which will educate her on the damage a poor diet can cause children, or offer to pay for her to visit a nutritionist, or something else that might actually help? If you think something is wrong, carrying on like that is certainly not going to change anything for the better. (you must face the "rage" of a poster who merely disagrees with you) and to invoke the spector of anorexia/eating disorders. That's just nonsense. I didn't accuse the poster of rage because they disagree with me, I accused them of rage because their original post was rageful; also I never said anything about anorexia/eating disorders. Nationwide, obesity/childhood obesity is a massive problem, dwarfing the problem of anorexia. But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem. Here is an example of what I was referring to befo your black/white, compartmentalized thinking: "But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem" You can't see that I am basically on the same side as you because you assume that everyone either agrees with you wholeheartedly, or is a "fat acceptor" whose ideas and actions follow a stereotype you have in your imagination. This makes it easy for you to avoid considering any new information, ideas, or viewpoints. Black/white thinking is a serious addiction and a far worse problem in the world than is childhood obesity. It allows you to judge as evil or wrong any viewpoint that doesn't match yours precisely, and this is a train of thought which, if followed too far, gives you an excuse to violate people's rights for virtually any reason. No one else here ever brings it up. It is a smokescreen, that is all. Or worse. Maybe you guys will say - while criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction "Criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction" implies that action *must* be taken to bring these criminals to justice in order to save the helpless victims. The problem with this is that the necessary solutions are almost certainly more harmful than no action at all. Let me give you an analogy: A Christian could argue that by their beliefs, raising a child to be anything other than a Christian is a far, far worse form of abuse than overfeeding, because the child's eternal soul will burn in Hell forever. With that belief, it would be criminal abuse to not raise children to believe anything other than Christianity, because that would be brainwashing helpless children into being followers of Satan. However, almost all Christians respect that others are free to believe what they will and to raise their children accordingly. Your belief that allowing a child to have a poor diet is "criminal overfeeding" and will cause "early food addiction" is no more valid than the aforementioned Christian's opinion; it's just your belief. Raise your own kids the way you believe, let others raise their kids by their beliefs. If you believe something requires your intervention, examine your own motives first. If you must intervene, do so with gentleness and thoughtfulness. Directing nasty accusations at someone immediately closes them off to anything you have to say, making such an intervention nothing more than an act of masturbatory self-righteousness as opposed to an effort to induce positive change. Rage is an addictive, self-destructive behavior just as compulsive overeating is. |
#43
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Obese child abuse.
Steve Knight quoth:
Not to mention, "I'm so stupid I think that eating sugar causes diabetes!" I bet it is a big cause of it. or started it anyway. the first case of it in china was in a western household where the white owner loved his sweets. all of the refined carbs and sugars have screwed us up. Uh, no. No diabetes gene, no diabetes. Priscilla |
#44
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Obese child abuse.
"Ernie Sty" wrote in message ...
"Ralph DuBose" wrote in message om... "Ernie Sty" wrote in message ... "The Voice of Reason" wrote in message om... Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ... When a mother is ABUSING her child by brainwashing her into eating habits That is mere speculation on your part. I would say that it is extremely good speculation on his part considering that the mom was openly encouraging the kid, who was already obese, to eat lots of crap food. You are correct, I missed that part. that will cause her ill-health and an early death, then it becomes everyone else's business. That is simply an opinion. One shared by the AMA, the NIH, and the Medicare authorities. Tell us your opinion. No, it is not. The opinion I was referring to is that it is "everybody's business", not that it would cause her ill health and early death. OK, I misread. But is extremely common in this ng to encounter wholesale rejection of accepted medical evidence of the harm of obesity, claiming it is all as a plot carried out by the diet industry. And if you can't see that causing obesity in children is an EVIL The word "evil" is usually used as an excuse to deny someone their rights. If I label you or your actions "evil", I have not only the right but the responsibility, as an agent of good, to stop you by whatever means necessary, and that almost always means violating your rights. The thing is, real evil is extermely rare. What is often labeled "evil" are people whose actions, or those actions themselves, that are seen as being contrary to your beliefs. Sure. We have no doubt that all that your belief system sees nothing wrong with ending up with a body, fairly quickly, that is incapable of doing 90% of the things that humans have done thru the millenia. On that you are absolutely wrong. You make assumptions based on what you feel, not on what I say. You are an adult, it is your choice. But the child is innocent and is helpless and cannot defend him/herself from being trapped in a dead end doom-ride to early incapacity. Again, you make lots of assumptions here. For one, it seems that you think that a parent encouraging her child to eat lots of sweets means the child will grow up eating sweets all the time. Where is your evidence? I know people whose parents strongly discouraged their children from eating junk food. As soon as the kids left the nest, guess what happened. They went on an all-junk-food diet, all the time. I have two cousins who were raised in a house in which junk food, candy, soda, etc. was always available in abundance and encouraged. One of them grew up rail-thin, the other was always overweight from childhood. Obviously the same environment did not affect them both the same. You can guess what will happen to this child, but that's all you can do is guess. You choose to judge something as abuse based on what you believe will happen in the future. What would you do about it--ake the child away from her mother and put her in a foster home? The source of my guessing about the future for this child is the fact that he/she is already over-weight at such a young age. The danger that I focus on is not the development of a lifelong craving for sweets but the simple fact that prolonged obesity tends to become self-perpetuating. act then YOU are the one who isn't competent. Another opinion. Obesity causes diabetes, no-one is denying that other than Fat Acceptors. Obesity causes diabetes in some people, this is true. It also causes heart disease, osteoporosis, and other nasty diseases--in some people. Bear in mind that it does not cause these diseases in everyone. Bear in mind that obesity pushes everyone in the direction of clinically apparent diabetes/hypertension, etc. Not everyones body falters under the physiological abuse caused by lots of extra fat such that a formal diagnosis becomes unavoidable. Basically the same as what I said. OK But this hardly makes obesity seem like something that one can be entirely neutral about. It is a matter of "degrees of badness", in other words. You might want to consider the fact that rage is rarely helpful. If you want to feel better and be healthier, I would suggest you direct your anger at seeing a fat woman with a fat daughter to raising awareness about eating disorders and the dangers of passing them on to one's children instead of into rage/posting on the internet. A stone typical response of fat acceptors to nearly any question is to grasp for the victim role A typical response from someone who doesn't have a logical arguement is to start name-calling and stereotyping, in order to build a straw man argument. I never said anything about a victim here. I never defended what the woman was doing to her daughter (though I'm sure you think that's what I'm doing, as you seem to only be able to grasp ideas which fit inside your black/white view) I believe it would be better if the woman encouraged her daughter to make healthy choices. In fact, I believe it would be better to never allow kids to taste any food that is processed such as anything containing added sugar. Processed foods themselves can cause addiction in susceptible people. But that is not the point. This is what I was referring to by "rage": OK. But "rage" is not exactly a mild form of self expression/disagreement. No one wants to encounter rage in another. Using such a word to describe the approach of a poster definitely sets up the scenario of suffering inflicted and endured. "It's one thing not caring about your own body, but to poison and abuse your child, teaching it awful eating habits that will last it a lifetime, is disgusting. Obese parents should be ashamed of this evil act." For crying out loud, use a little common sense--has anyone ever changed their lifestyle as a result of accusations of being a child-poisoner, told they are disgusting or that they should be ashamed? The only result for this kind of approach is a sort of mental, masturbatory orgy of self-righteousness. There is no expressed desire to make a wrong situation right. This is rage, and is in no way constructive. Ask yourself how this attitude helps the mother or the child. Why not approach the mother, try to make friends with her, and being a caring friend, suggest reading materials which will educate her on the damage a poor diet can cause children, or offer to pay for her to visit a nutritionist, or something else that might actually help? If you think something is wrong, carrying on like that is certainly not going to change anything for the better. You are slightly lost. This is a place where some people persistently defend the notion that obesity should not be fought against but "accepted". In FAT ACCEPTANCE LAND you would be seen as just another mortal enemy because you suggest or imply that losing weight is 1. possible 2. desireable So forgive me for developing a black-white attitude towards this debate. I have come to see the standard ideology of fat acceptance as a monstrosity that should be smashed without mercy or restraint. For one thing, there is no compromising with these people. They will not admit it, but their real goal is to promote widespread obesity in society so that they will not have to face competition from more fit/attractive folks. I know that sounds too horrible to believe but if you doubt it stick around awhile. So, the idea of "helping" a fat person get better is certainly the humane, decent thing to do. But fat acceptors would show you no mercy when you suggest it. It often takes newcomers awhile to adjust to the darkness in here. (you must face the "rage" of a poster who merely disagrees with you) and to invoke the spector of anorexia/eating disorders. That's just nonsense. I didn't accuse the poster of rage because they disagree with me, I accused them of rage because their original post was rageful; also I never said anything about anorexia/eating disorders. Well, you did mention talking to the fat people about "eating disorders". Nationwide, obesity/childhood obesity is a massive problem, dwarfing the problem of anorexia. But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem. Here is an example of what I was referring to befo your black/white, compartmentalized thinking: "But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem" You can't see that I am basically on the same side as you because you assume that everyone either agrees with you wholeheartedly, or is a "fat acceptor" whose ideas and actions follow a stereotype you have in your imagination. This makes it easy for you to avoid considering any new information, ideas, or viewpoints. Black/white thinking is a serious addiction and a far worse problem in the world than is childhood obesity. I did not start this debate. I did not force FA to turn into the monstrosity that it is. It allows you to judge as evil or wrong any viewpoint that doesn't match yours precisely, and this is a train of thought which, if followed too far, gives you an excuse to violate people's rights for virtually any reason. No one else here ever brings it up. It is a smokescreen, that is all. Or worse. Maybe you guys will say - while criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction "Criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction" implies that action *must* be taken to bring these criminals to justice in order to save the helpless victims. The problem with this is that the necessary solutions are almost certainly more harmful than no action at all. Let me give you an analogy: A Christian could argue that by their beliefs, raising a child to be anything other than a Christian is a far, far worse form of abuse than overfeeding, because the child's eternal soul will burn in Hell forever. With that belief, it would be criminal abuse to not raise children to believe anything other than Christianity, because that would be brainwashing helpless children into being followers of Satan. However, almost all Christians respect that others are free to believe what they will and to raise their children accordingly. Your belief that allowing a child to have a poor diet is "criminal overfeeding" and will cause "early food addiction" is no more valid than the aforementioned Christian's opinion; it's just your belief. Raise your own kids the way you believe, let others raise their kids by their beliefs. If you believe something requires your intervention, examine your own motives first. If you must intervene, do so with gentleness and thoughtfulness. Directing nasty accusations at someone immediately closes them off to anything you have to say, making such an intervention nothing more than an act of masturbatory self-righteousness as opposed to an effort to induce positive change. You are well intentioned but naive as to what FAT Acceptance is really about. Rage is an addictive, self-destructive behavior just as compulsive overeating is. |
#45
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"Ernie Sty" wrote in message ...
"Ralph DuBose" wrote in message om... "Ernie Sty" wrote in message ... "The Voice of Reason" wrote in message om... Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ... When a mother is ABUSING her child by brainwashing her into eating habits That is mere speculation on your part. I would say that it is extremely good speculation on his part considering that the mom was openly encouraging the kid, who was already obese, to eat lots of crap food. You are correct, I missed that part. that will cause her ill-health and an early death, then it becomes everyone else's business. That is simply an opinion. One shared by the AMA, the NIH, and the Medicare authorities. Tell us your opinion. No, it is not. The opinion I was referring to is that it is "everybody's business", not that it would cause her ill health and early death. OK, I misread. But is extremely common in this ng to encounter wholesale rejection of accepted medical evidence of the harm of obesity, claiming it is all as a plot carried out by the diet industry. And if you can't see that causing obesity in children is an EVIL The word "evil" is usually used as an excuse to deny someone their rights. If I label you or your actions "evil", I have not only the right but the responsibility, as an agent of good, to stop you by whatever means necessary, and that almost always means violating your rights. The thing is, real evil is extermely rare. What is often labeled "evil" are people whose actions, or those actions themselves, that are seen as being contrary to your beliefs. Sure. We have no doubt that all that your belief system sees nothing wrong with ending up with a body, fairly quickly, that is incapable of doing 90% of the things that humans have done thru the millenia. On that you are absolutely wrong. You make assumptions based on what you feel, not on what I say. You are an adult, it is your choice. But the child is innocent and is helpless and cannot defend him/herself from being trapped in a dead end doom-ride to early incapacity. Again, you make lots of assumptions here. For one, it seems that you think that a parent encouraging her child to eat lots of sweets means the child will grow up eating sweets all the time. Where is your evidence? I know people whose parents strongly discouraged their children from eating junk food. As soon as the kids left the nest, guess what happened. They went on an all-junk-food diet, all the time. I have two cousins who were raised in a house in which junk food, candy, soda, etc. was always available in abundance and encouraged. One of them grew up rail-thin, the other was always overweight from childhood. Obviously the same environment did not affect them both the same. You can guess what will happen to this child, but that's all you can do is guess. You choose to judge something as abuse based on what you believe will happen in the future. What would you do about it--ake the child away from her mother and put her in a foster home? The source of my guessing about the future for this child is the fact that he/she is already over-weight at such a young age. The danger that I focus on is not the development of a lifelong craving for sweets but the simple fact that prolonged obesity tends to become self-perpetuating. act then YOU are the one who isn't competent. Another opinion. Obesity causes diabetes, no-one is denying that other than Fat Acceptors. Obesity causes diabetes in some people, this is true. It also causes heart disease, osteoporosis, and other nasty diseases--in some people. Bear in mind that it does not cause these diseases in everyone. Bear in mind that obesity pushes everyone in the direction of clinically apparent diabetes/hypertension, etc. Not everyones body falters under the physiological abuse caused by lots of extra fat such that a formal diagnosis becomes unavoidable. Basically the same as what I said. OK But this hardly makes obesity seem like something that one can be entirely neutral about. It is a matter of "degrees of badness", in other words. You might want to consider the fact that rage is rarely helpful. If you want to feel better and be healthier, I would suggest you direct your anger at seeing a fat woman with a fat daughter to raising awareness about eating disorders and the dangers of passing them on to one's children instead of into rage/posting on the internet. A stone typical response of fat acceptors to nearly any question is to grasp for the victim role A typical response from someone who doesn't have a logical arguement is to start name-calling and stereotyping, in order to build a straw man argument. I never said anything about a victim here. I never defended what the woman was doing to her daughter (though I'm sure you think that's what I'm doing, as you seem to only be able to grasp ideas which fit inside your black/white view) I believe it would be better if the woman encouraged her daughter to make healthy choices. In fact, I believe it would be better to never allow kids to taste any food that is processed such as anything containing added sugar. Processed foods themselves can cause addiction in susceptible people. But that is not the point. This is what I was referring to by "rage": OK. But "rage" is not exactly a mild form of self expression/disagreement. No one wants to encounter rage in another. Using such a word to describe the approach of a poster definitely sets up the scenario of suffering inflicted and endured. "It's one thing not caring about your own body, but to poison and abuse your child, teaching it awful eating habits that will last it a lifetime, is disgusting. Obese parents should be ashamed of this evil act." For crying out loud, use a little common sense--has anyone ever changed their lifestyle as a result of accusations of being a child-poisoner, told they are disgusting or that they should be ashamed? The only result for this kind of approach is a sort of mental, masturbatory orgy of self-righteousness. There is no expressed desire to make a wrong situation right. This is rage, and is in no way constructive. Ask yourself how this attitude helps the mother or the child. Why not approach the mother, try to make friends with her, and being a caring friend, suggest reading materials which will educate her on the damage a poor diet can cause children, or offer to pay for her to visit a nutritionist, or something else that might actually help? If you think something is wrong, carrying on like that is certainly not going to change anything for the better. You are slightly lost. This is a place where some people persistently defend the notion that obesity should not be fought against but "accepted". In FAT ACCEPTANCE LAND you would be seen as just another mortal enemy because you suggest or imply that losing weight is 1. possible 2. desireable So forgive me for developing a black-white attitude towards this debate. I have come to see the standard ideology of fat acceptance as a monstrosity that should be smashed without mercy or restraint. For one thing, there is no compromising with these people. They will not admit it, but their real goal is to promote widespread obesity in society so that they will not have to face competition from more fit/attractive folks. I know that sounds too horrible to believe but if you doubt it stick around awhile. So, the idea of "helping" a fat person get better is certainly the humane, decent thing to do. But fat acceptors would show you no mercy when you suggest it. It often takes newcomers awhile to adjust to the darkness in here. (you must face the "rage" of a poster who merely disagrees with you) and to invoke the spector of anorexia/eating disorders. That's just nonsense. I didn't accuse the poster of rage because they disagree with me, I accused them of rage because their original post was rageful; also I never said anything about anorexia/eating disorders. Well, you did mention talking to the fat people about "eating disorders". Nationwide, obesity/childhood obesity is a massive problem, dwarfing the problem of anorexia. But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem. Here is an example of what I was referring to befo your black/white, compartmentalized thinking: "But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem" You can't see that I am basically on the same side as you because you assume that everyone either agrees with you wholeheartedly, or is a "fat acceptor" whose ideas and actions follow a stereotype you have in your imagination. This makes it easy for you to avoid considering any new information, ideas, or viewpoints. Black/white thinking is a serious addiction and a far worse problem in the world than is childhood obesity. I did not start this debate. I did not force FA to turn into the monstrosity that it is. It allows you to judge as evil or wrong any viewpoint that doesn't match yours precisely, and this is a train of thought which, if followed too far, gives you an excuse to violate people's rights for virtually any reason. No one else here ever brings it up. It is a smokescreen, that is all. Or worse. Maybe you guys will say - while criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction "Criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction" implies that action *must* be taken to bring these criminals to justice in order to save the helpless victims. The problem with this is that the necessary solutions are almost certainly more harmful than no action at all. Let me give you an analogy: A Christian could argue that by their beliefs, raising a child to be anything other than a Christian is a far, far worse form of abuse than overfeeding, because the child's eternal soul will burn in Hell forever. With that belief, it would be criminal abuse to not raise children to believe anything other than Christianity, because that would be brainwashing helpless children into being followers of Satan. However, almost all Christians respect that others are free to believe what they will and to raise their children accordingly. Your belief that allowing a child to have a poor diet is "criminal overfeeding" and will cause "early food addiction" is no more valid than the aforementioned Christian's opinion; it's just your belief. Raise your own kids the way you believe, let others raise their kids by their beliefs. If you believe something requires your intervention, examine your own motives first. If you must intervene, do so with gentleness and thoughtfulness. Directing nasty accusations at someone immediately closes them off to anything you have to say, making such an intervention nothing more than an act of masturbatory self-righteousness as opposed to an effort to induce positive change. You are well intentioned but naive as to what FAT Acceptance is really about. Rage is an addictive, self-destructive behavior just as compulsive overeating is. |
#46
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Obese child abuse.
"Ernie Sty" wrote in message ...
"Ralph DuBose" wrote in message om... "Ernie Sty" wrote in message ... "The Voice of Reason" wrote in message om... Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ... When a mother is ABUSING her child by brainwashing her into eating habits That is mere speculation on your part. I would say that it is extremely good speculation on his part considering that the mom was openly encouraging the kid, who was already obese, to eat lots of crap food. You are correct, I missed that part. that will cause her ill-health and an early death, then it becomes everyone else's business. That is simply an opinion. One shared by the AMA, the NIH, and the Medicare authorities. Tell us your opinion. No, it is not. The opinion I was referring to is that it is "everybody's business", not that it would cause her ill health and early death. OK, I misread. But is extremely common in this ng to encounter wholesale rejection of accepted medical evidence of the harm of obesity, claiming it is all as a plot carried out by the diet industry. And if you can't see that causing obesity in children is an EVIL The word "evil" is usually used as an excuse to deny someone their rights. If I label you or your actions "evil", I have not only the right but the responsibility, as an agent of good, to stop you by whatever means necessary, and that almost always means violating your rights. The thing is, real evil is extermely rare. What is often labeled "evil" are people whose actions, or those actions themselves, that are seen as being contrary to your beliefs. Sure. We have no doubt that all that your belief system sees nothing wrong with ending up with a body, fairly quickly, that is incapable of doing 90% of the things that humans have done thru the millenia. On that you are absolutely wrong. You make assumptions based on what you feel, not on what I say. You are an adult, it is your choice. But the child is innocent and is helpless and cannot defend him/herself from being trapped in a dead end doom-ride to early incapacity. Again, you make lots of assumptions here. For one, it seems that you think that a parent encouraging her child to eat lots of sweets means the child will grow up eating sweets all the time. Where is your evidence? I know people whose parents strongly discouraged their children from eating junk food. As soon as the kids left the nest, guess what happened. They went on an all-junk-food diet, all the time. I have two cousins who were raised in a house in which junk food, candy, soda, etc. was always available in abundance and encouraged. One of them grew up rail-thin, the other was always overweight from childhood. Obviously the same environment did not affect them both the same. You can guess what will happen to this child, but that's all you can do is guess. You choose to judge something as abuse based on what you believe will happen in the future. What would you do about it--ake the child away from her mother and put her in a foster home? The source of my guessing about the future for this child is the fact that he/she is already over-weight at such a young age. The danger that I focus on is not the development of a lifelong craving for sweets but the simple fact that prolonged obesity tends to become self-perpetuating. act then YOU are the one who isn't competent. Another opinion. Obesity causes diabetes, no-one is denying that other than Fat Acceptors. Obesity causes diabetes in some people, this is true. It also causes heart disease, osteoporosis, and other nasty diseases--in some people. Bear in mind that it does not cause these diseases in everyone. Bear in mind that obesity pushes everyone in the direction of clinically apparent diabetes/hypertension, etc. Not everyones body falters under the physiological abuse caused by lots of extra fat such that a formal diagnosis becomes unavoidable. Basically the same as what I said. OK But this hardly makes obesity seem like something that one can be entirely neutral about. It is a matter of "degrees of badness", in other words. You might want to consider the fact that rage is rarely helpful. If you want to feel better and be healthier, I would suggest you direct your anger at seeing a fat woman with a fat daughter to raising awareness about eating disorders and the dangers of passing them on to one's children instead of into rage/posting on the internet. A stone typical response of fat acceptors to nearly any question is to grasp for the victim role A typical response from someone who doesn't have a logical arguement is to start name-calling and stereotyping, in order to build a straw man argument. I never said anything about a victim here. I never defended what the woman was doing to her daughter (though I'm sure you think that's what I'm doing, as you seem to only be able to grasp ideas which fit inside your black/white view) I believe it would be better if the woman encouraged her daughter to make healthy choices. In fact, I believe it would be better to never allow kids to taste any food that is processed such as anything containing added sugar. Processed foods themselves can cause addiction in susceptible people. But that is not the point. This is what I was referring to by "rage": OK. But "rage" is not exactly a mild form of self expression/disagreement. No one wants to encounter rage in another. Using such a word to describe the approach of a poster definitely sets up the scenario of suffering inflicted and endured. "It's one thing not caring about your own body, but to poison and abuse your child, teaching it awful eating habits that will last it a lifetime, is disgusting. Obese parents should be ashamed of this evil act." For crying out loud, use a little common sense--has anyone ever changed their lifestyle as a result of accusations of being a child-poisoner, told they are disgusting or that they should be ashamed? The only result for this kind of approach is a sort of mental, masturbatory orgy of self-righteousness. There is no expressed desire to make a wrong situation right. This is rage, and is in no way constructive. Ask yourself how this attitude helps the mother or the child. Why not approach the mother, try to make friends with her, and being a caring friend, suggest reading materials which will educate her on the damage a poor diet can cause children, or offer to pay for her to visit a nutritionist, or something else that might actually help? If you think something is wrong, carrying on like that is certainly not going to change anything for the better. You are slightly lost. This is a place where some people persistently defend the notion that obesity should not be fought against but "accepted". In FAT ACCEPTANCE LAND you would be seen as just another mortal enemy because you suggest or imply that losing weight is 1. possible 2. desireable So forgive me for developing a black-white attitude towards this debate. I have come to see the standard ideology of fat acceptance as a monstrosity that should be smashed without mercy or restraint. For one thing, there is no compromising with these people. They will not admit it, but their real goal is to promote widespread obesity in society so that they will not have to face competition from more fit/attractive folks. I know that sounds too horrible to believe but if you doubt it stick around awhile. So, the idea of "helping" a fat person get better is certainly the humane, decent thing to do. But fat acceptors would show you no mercy when you suggest it. It often takes newcomers awhile to adjust to the darkness in here. (you must face the "rage" of a poster who merely disagrees with you) and to invoke the spector of anorexia/eating disorders. That's just nonsense. I didn't accuse the poster of rage because they disagree with me, I accused them of rage because their original post was rageful; also I never said anything about anorexia/eating disorders. Well, you did mention talking to the fat people about "eating disorders". Nationwide, obesity/childhood obesity is a massive problem, dwarfing the problem of anorexia. But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem. Here is an example of what I was referring to befo your black/white, compartmentalized thinking: "But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem" You can't see that I am basically on the same side as you because you assume that everyone either agrees with you wholeheartedly, or is a "fat acceptor" whose ideas and actions follow a stereotype you have in your imagination. This makes it easy for you to avoid considering any new information, ideas, or viewpoints. Black/white thinking is a serious addiction and a far worse problem in the world than is childhood obesity. I did not start this debate. I did not force FA to turn into the monstrosity that it is. It allows you to judge as evil or wrong any viewpoint that doesn't match yours precisely, and this is a train of thought which, if followed too far, gives you an excuse to violate people's rights for virtually any reason. No one else here ever brings it up. It is a smokescreen, that is all. Or worse. Maybe you guys will say - while criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction "Criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction" implies that action *must* be taken to bring these criminals to justice in order to save the helpless victims. The problem with this is that the necessary solutions are almost certainly more harmful than no action at all. Let me give you an analogy: A Christian could argue that by their beliefs, raising a child to be anything other than a Christian is a far, far worse form of abuse than overfeeding, because the child's eternal soul will burn in Hell forever. With that belief, it would be criminal abuse to not raise children to believe anything other than Christianity, because that would be brainwashing helpless children into being followers of Satan. However, almost all Christians respect that others are free to believe what they will and to raise their children accordingly. Your belief that allowing a child to have a poor diet is "criminal overfeeding" and will cause "early food addiction" is no more valid than the aforementioned Christian's opinion; it's just your belief. Raise your own kids the way you believe, let others raise their kids by their beliefs. If you believe something requires your intervention, examine your own motives first. If you must intervene, do so with gentleness and thoughtfulness. Directing nasty accusations at someone immediately closes them off to anything you have to say, making such an intervention nothing more than an act of masturbatory self-righteousness as opposed to an effort to induce positive change. You are well intentioned but naive as to what FAT Acceptance is really about. Rage is an addictive, self-destructive behavior just as compulsive overeating is. |
#47
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"Ernie Sty" wrote in message ...
"Ralph DuBose" wrote in message om... "Ernie Sty" wrote in message ... "The Voice of Reason" wrote in message om... Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ... When a mother is ABUSING her child by brainwashing her into eating habits That is mere speculation on your part. I would say that it is extremely good speculation on his part considering that the mom was openly encouraging the kid, who was already obese, to eat lots of crap food. You are correct, I missed that part. that will cause her ill-health and an early death, then it becomes everyone else's business. That is simply an opinion. One shared by the AMA, the NIH, and the Medicare authorities. Tell us your opinion. No, it is not. The opinion I was referring to is that it is "everybody's business", not that it would cause her ill health and early death. OK, I misread. But is extremely common in this ng to encounter wholesale rejection of accepted medical evidence of the harm of obesity, claiming it is all as a plot carried out by the diet industry. And if you can't see that causing obesity in children is an EVIL The word "evil" is usually used as an excuse to deny someone their rights. If I label you or your actions "evil", I have not only the right but the responsibility, as an agent of good, to stop you by whatever means necessary, and that almost always means violating your rights. The thing is, real evil is extermely rare. What is often labeled "evil" are people whose actions, or those actions themselves, that are seen as being contrary to your beliefs. Sure. We have no doubt that all that your belief system sees nothing wrong with ending up with a body, fairly quickly, that is incapable of doing 90% of the things that humans have done thru the millenia. On that you are absolutely wrong. You make assumptions based on what you feel, not on what I say. You are an adult, it is your choice. But the child is innocent and is helpless and cannot defend him/herself from being trapped in a dead end doom-ride to early incapacity. Again, you make lots of assumptions here. For one, it seems that you think that a parent encouraging her child to eat lots of sweets means the child will grow up eating sweets all the time. Where is your evidence? I know people whose parents strongly discouraged their children from eating junk food. As soon as the kids left the nest, guess what happened. They went on an all-junk-food diet, all the time. I have two cousins who were raised in a house in which junk food, candy, soda, etc. was always available in abundance and encouraged. One of them grew up rail-thin, the other was always overweight from childhood. Obviously the same environment did not affect them both the same. You can guess what will happen to this child, but that's all you can do is guess. You choose to judge something as abuse based on what you believe will happen in the future. What would you do about it--ake the child away from her mother and put her in a foster home? The source of my guessing about the future for this child is the fact that he/she is already over-weight at such a young age. The danger that I focus on is not the development of a lifelong craving for sweets but the simple fact that prolonged obesity tends to become self-perpetuating. act then YOU are the one who isn't competent. Another opinion. Obesity causes diabetes, no-one is denying that other than Fat Acceptors. Obesity causes diabetes in some people, this is true. It also causes heart disease, osteoporosis, and other nasty diseases--in some people. Bear in mind that it does not cause these diseases in everyone. Bear in mind that obesity pushes everyone in the direction of clinically apparent diabetes/hypertension, etc. Not everyones body falters under the physiological abuse caused by lots of extra fat such that a formal diagnosis becomes unavoidable. Basically the same as what I said. OK But this hardly makes obesity seem like something that one can be entirely neutral about. It is a matter of "degrees of badness", in other words. You might want to consider the fact that rage is rarely helpful. If you want to feel better and be healthier, I would suggest you direct your anger at seeing a fat woman with a fat daughter to raising awareness about eating disorders and the dangers of passing them on to one's children instead of into rage/posting on the internet. A stone typical response of fat acceptors to nearly any question is to grasp for the victim role A typical response from someone who doesn't have a logical arguement is to start name-calling and stereotyping, in order to build a straw man argument. I never said anything about a victim here. I never defended what the woman was doing to her daughter (though I'm sure you think that's what I'm doing, as you seem to only be able to grasp ideas which fit inside your black/white view) I believe it would be better if the woman encouraged her daughter to make healthy choices. In fact, I believe it would be better to never allow kids to taste any food that is processed such as anything containing added sugar. Processed foods themselves can cause addiction in susceptible people. But that is not the point. This is what I was referring to by "rage": OK. But "rage" is not exactly a mild form of self expression/disagreement. No one wants to encounter rage in another. Using such a word to describe the approach of a poster definitely sets up the scenario of suffering inflicted and endured. "It's one thing not caring about your own body, but to poison and abuse your child, teaching it awful eating habits that will last it a lifetime, is disgusting. Obese parents should be ashamed of this evil act." For crying out loud, use a little common sense--has anyone ever changed their lifestyle as a result of accusations of being a child-poisoner, told they are disgusting or that they should be ashamed? The only result for this kind of approach is a sort of mental, masturbatory orgy of self-righteousness. There is no expressed desire to make a wrong situation right. This is rage, and is in no way constructive. Ask yourself how this attitude helps the mother or the child. Why not approach the mother, try to make friends with her, and being a caring friend, suggest reading materials which will educate her on the damage a poor diet can cause children, or offer to pay for her to visit a nutritionist, or something else that might actually help? If you think something is wrong, carrying on like that is certainly not going to change anything for the better. You are slightly lost. This is a place where some people persistently defend the notion that obesity should not be fought against but "accepted". In FAT ACCEPTANCE LAND you would be seen as just another mortal enemy because you suggest or imply that losing weight is 1. possible 2. desireable So forgive me for developing a black-white attitude towards this debate. I have come to see the standard ideology of fat acceptance as a monstrosity that should be smashed without mercy or restraint. For one thing, there is no compromising with these people. They will not admit it, but their real goal is to promote widespread obesity in society so that they will not have to face competition from more fit/attractive folks. I know that sounds too horrible to believe but if you doubt it stick around awhile. So, the idea of "helping" a fat person get better is certainly the humane, decent thing to do. But fat acceptors would show you no mercy when you suggest it. It often takes newcomers awhile to adjust to the darkness in here. (you must face the "rage" of a poster who merely disagrees with you) and to invoke the spector of anorexia/eating disorders. That's just nonsense. I didn't accuse the poster of rage because they disagree with me, I accused them of rage because their original post was rageful; also I never said anything about anorexia/eating disorders. Well, you did mention talking to the fat people about "eating disorders". Nationwide, obesity/childhood obesity is a massive problem, dwarfing the problem of anorexia. But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem. Here is an example of what I was referring to befo your black/white, compartmentalized thinking: "But you guys routinely wave the possibility of anorexia around like some kind of totem" You can't see that I am basically on the same side as you because you assume that everyone either agrees with you wholeheartedly, or is a "fat acceptor" whose ideas and actions follow a stereotype you have in your imagination. This makes it easy for you to avoid considering any new information, ideas, or viewpoints. Black/white thinking is a serious addiction and a far worse problem in the world than is childhood obesity. I did not start this debate. I did not force FA to turn into the monstrosity that it is. It allows you to judge as evil or wrong any viewpoint that doesn't match yours precisely, and this is a train of thought which, if followed too far, gives you an excuse to violate people's rights for virtually any reason. No one else here ever brings it up. It is a smokescreen, that is all. Or worse. Maybe you guys will say - while criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction "Criminally overfeeding helpless children into an early food addiction" implies that action *must* be taken to bring these criminals to justice in order to save the helpless victims. The problem with this is that the necessary solutions are almost certainly more harmful than no action at all. Let me give you an analogy: A Christian could argue that by their beliefs, raising a child to be anything other than a Christian is a far, far worse form of abuse than overfeeding, because the child's eternal soul will burn in Hell forever. With that belief, it would be criminal abuse to not raise children to believe anything other than Christianity, because that would be brainwashing helpless children into being followers of Satan. However, almost all Christians respect that others are free to believe what they will and to raise their children accordingly. Your belief that allowing a child to have a poor diet is "criminal overfeeding" and will cause "early food addiction" is no more valid than the aforementioned Christian's opinion; it's just your belief. Raise your own kids the way you believe, let others raise their kids by their beliefs. If you believe something requires your intervention, examine your own motives first. If you must intervene, do so with gentleness and thoughtfulness. Directing nasty accusations at someone immediately closes them off to anything you have to say, making such an intervention nothing more than an act of masturbatory self-righteousness as opposed to an effort to induce positive change. You are well intentioned but naive as to what FAT Acceptance is really about. Rage is an addictive, self-destructive behavior just as compulsive overeating is. |
#48
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Obese child abuse.
"This" newsgroup? This is crossposted to three groups.
In m, Ralph DuBose stated | OK, I misread. | But is extremely common in this ng to encounter wholesale rejection | of accepted medical evidence of the harm of obesity, claiming it is | all as a plot carried out by the diet industry. |
#49
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"This" newsgroup? This is crossposted to three groups.
In m, Ralph DuBose stated | OK, I misread. | But is extremely common in this ng to encounter wholesale rejection | of accepted medical evidence of the harm of obesity, claiming it is | all as a plot carried out by the diet industry. |
#50
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Obese child abuse.
Uh, no. No diabetes gene, no diabetes. how do you think that gene came along?? could it be from generations of poor eating habits?? -- Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions. |
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