A Weightloss and diet forum. WeightLossBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » WeightLossBanter forum » alt.support.diet newsgroups » Low Carbohydrate Diets
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old May 18th, 2004, 09:41 PM
Alan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

On 18 May 2004 06:44:59 -0700, (Diarmid Logan)
wrote:

Cross-posts to:
sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet.low-carb,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci .med.cardiology
retained for this post.

Stern's year-long study (Annals of Internal Medicine, vol 140, p778)
was twice the length of any previous study. Half the patients followed
the Atkins regime, limiting daily carbohydrate intake to just 30
grams. The rest tried losing weight through a conventional low-fat
diet much richer in carbohydrates.


Incorrect.

There is no doubt that the results were "good news for Atkins dieters",
as the author stated, but the study was on general lower carb dieting,
not specifically the Atkins method.

One of the problems with reports like this is the way meanings change
with skewed repetition, in the news media and on newsgroups.

The abstract of the original report from Stern is at :
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/10/778

It is worth reading the original, instead of the media hype.

The only mention I can find in it of Atkins is :

"Although it has been speculated that a low-carbohydrate diet would
facilitate weight loss by promoting the metabolism of adipose tissue
(13), our data suggest that weight loss differences may be explained by
lower caloric intake on a low-carbohydrate diet".

The reference 13 is:

"13. Atkins RC. Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution. New York: Avon Books;
1998."

The methodology is described as:

"Diet groups met in weekly counseling sessions for 4 weeks, followed by
11 monthly sessions. Participants on the low-carbohydrate diet were
instructed only to reduce carbohydrate intake to less than 30 g per day.
Participants on the conventional diet were instructed to reduce caloric
intake by 500 calories per day, with less than 30% of calories derived
from fat, in accordance with the National Heart, Lung, and Blood
Institute guidelines (3)."

At no stage is it stated that they followed the Atkins diet, although
there may be obvious similarities. Unlike the similar Atkins-funded
study, no mention is made of supplements or specialty foods.

I found the study interesting and I hope that it leads to further
research, particularly the implications for diabetic health such as
glycemic control and lipids improvements. But I fear that the instant
association with Atkins, rather than the wider concept of lower carb
eating, will lead to it being disregarded by the medical establishment.

So let's stop instantly jumping to the conclusion, as the news reporters
did, that the diet studied was Atkins.

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
  #22  
Old May 18th, 2004, 09:47 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The 2 minute diet, a service to the public

"If that works for you, by all means go for it. It is not my loss if
something else works for you. After all, the 2PD approach is a public
service on my part that addresses a real public need.

Truth is simple.
"

It is not mine, it was released to the public service long ago, and as you
say, truth is simple, as simple as 2 minutes.
  #23  
Old May 18th, 2004, 09:50 PM
FOB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

You don't have to switch to another way of eating to reduce the calories.
Just east less. I can't see how it would be beneficial to start eating
things that make you hungrier.

In ,
Peanutjake stated
|
| So maybe that is the secret for losing weight.
| Go on Atkins for 6 months then switch to a lower calorie diet.
|
| But my question is what is the effect of each type of diet on a
| diabetic?
|
| PJ


  #24  
Old May 18th, 2004, 09:52 PM
Alan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:16:50 -0400, Jackie Patti
wrote:

X-posts to:
sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet.low-carb,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci .med.cardiology
retained.

The second study showed significantly better glycemic control on low-carb.

Which seems frankly so damned obvious to me that it seems ridiculous to
need a study.

People with impaired carbohydrate metabolism should limit carbs!
Surprise!


Um, Jackie, I totally agree with you. However, from the web-site of the
American Diabetes Association (the emphasis in capitals is mine):

http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an...n/starches.jsp

"The message today: EAT MORE STARCHES! It is healthiest for everyone to
eat more whole grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas, corn,
potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for you because they have
very little fat, saturated fat, or cholesterol. They are packed with
vitamins, minerals, and fiber. Yes, foods with carbohydrate --
starches, vegetables, fruits, and dairy products -- will raise your
blood glucose more quickly than meats and fats, but they are the
healthiest foods for you. YOUR DOCTOR MAY NEED TO ADJUST YOUR
MEDICATIONS WHEN YOU EAT MORE CARBOHYDRATES. You may need to increase
your activity level or try spacing carbohydrates throughout the day."

As you said:

Blond moments in science...


That is why we need the studies, and lots more of them from reputable
impartial research organisations.

Because, although I'm not american, my mob seem to follow yours when it
comes to dispensing this as the best advice for diabetics.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
  #25  
Old May 18th, 2004, 09:55 PM
Alan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

On 18 May 2004 16:41:59 GMT, wrote:

"But my question is what is the effect of each type of diet on a
diabetic?"

From the year long research:

" In the subgroup of 54 persons with diabetes, hemoglobin A[1c] levels
improved more with the low-carbohydrate diet, but the difference was
not statistically significant in sensitivity analyses. Both groups had
similar changes in other lipids and in insulin sensitivity."


Stern is a little more positive in:

"Glycemic Control and Insulin Sensitivity

The difference in the response of glucose and insulin sensitivity
between diet groups by 1 year was not significant (Table 3). Despite
this, the hemoglobin A1c level in the small group of persons with
diabetes (n = 54) decreased more in the low-carbohydrate group, after
adjustment for baseline differences (Table 3). This difference remained
significant after weight loss amount was added to the model (P = 0.019),
suggesting a direct effect of the low-carbohydrate diet on glycemic
control. However, the significance of the difference in the response of
hemoglobin A1c was not confirmed by an analysis that included only the
persons who completed the study (adjusted P = 0.080) or when baseline
values were carried forward for missing persons (adjusted P = 0.18). Two
persons on the low-carbohydrate diet and 4 on the conventional diet
developed diabetes at 1 year (P 0.2)."

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
  #27  
Old May 18th, 2004, 10:17 PM
h1clock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

I have lost 73 pounds on Atkins since last July! I did level off in
February, and my weight has not gone up or down since. I consume
roughly 50 to 60 carbs a day now.

My cholestorol went down from 270 to 185!

I no longer eat Bread, pasta, ANY sugar, etc. etc. and have never felt
better in years.

I DO need to exercise more though.

Just my observations. I'm a DEDICATED ATKINS fanatic!

h1
  #28  
Old May 18th, 2004, 10:32 PM
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

Diarmid Logan wrote:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99995003

Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

Half the patients followed the Atkins regime, limiting daily
carbohydrate intake to just 30 grams.


That's not Atkins. That's hardly any different from Induction.
Ye gods I'd love some study to be done on real actual Atkins
what it really seriously says in the directions.

The rest tried losing weight through a conventional low-fat
diet much richer in carbohydrates.


Yup. Few say low fat diets don't work. Many say they are hard
to stick to. In the long run easy to stick to wins.

By the end, both groups had lost about the same amount of weight,
between five and eight kilograms for the Atkins group and three and
eight kilos for the low fat group. But the Atkins dieters lost almost
all their weight in the first six months, then remained at a steady
weight.


Six months. Ah, the magic number that Dr A warned about. Not
supposed to stay low for more than six months according to the
book.

I wonder how many hit their ideal weight and stopped losing (the
best possible result) vs how many stalled because they stayed too
low in carbs.

This does show that skill comes into play far more in low carbing
than in low fatting. Going too low in carbs does stall plenty.
It would seem that going tooo low in fat doesn't have nearly that
same problem.

Stern says that this pattern of rapid weight loss matches that seen in
an earlier but shorter study of Atkins dieters, by Gary Foster's team
at the University of Pennsylvania in May 2003. "I'm impressed that
they didn't gain it all back," says Stern.


It's *easy* to stay at 30!

Compared with the low-fat group, Atkins dieters also had lower levels
of triglycerides, potentially harmful blood sugars which can trigger
heart disease. Concentrations of beneficial high density cholesterols
(HDLs) also held up better in the Atkins group. And these favourable
changes remained till the end of the study, suggesting that there
might be lasting benefits.


No news to anyone who's been paying attention.

"But what we really need is a study showing whether people on the
low-carbohydrate diet for years have different odds of heart attacks,
strokes and diabetes," she says.


Absolutely. Prove it and get the naysayers handled. Just because
one old guy four decades into a low carb plan was in such good
health he had to slip on the ice to keep from going to work every
day doesn't mean it will work that well for everyone, so it is
time for a study.

But critics highlight some negative findings from the Duke study.
"This new evidence confirms that levels of 'bad' cholesterol worsen in
a substantial number of low-carbohydrate dieters," said Neal Barnard
of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, a vegan lobby
group in Washington DC.


Ah the PCRM liars again. In fact their "substantial" actually
means 20% according to Dr A. Recent studies hint that Dr A might
have been conservative in his 20% claim.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3722221.stm

Scientists endorse Atkins diet

But he added that such diets should include healthy sources of protein
and fat and incorporate regular exercise.


Uh, sure, just like it says in the directions. #;^)%

"Patients should focus on finding ways to eat that they can maintain
indefinitely rather than seeking diets that promote rapid weight
loss," he said.


Agreed. I have found keeping it off much harder than losing it.
Among other things keeping it off lasts a lot longer ...
  #29  
Old May 18th, 2004, 10:35 PM
Evelyn Ruut
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

"Jackie Patti" wrote in message
...
Peanutjake wrote:

But my question is what is the effect of each type of diet on a

diabetic?

The second study showed significantly better glycemic control on low-carb.

Which seems frankly so damned obvious to me that it seems ridiculous to
need a study.

People with impaired carbohydrate metabolism should limit carbs!
Surprise!

Blond moments in science...



It has always seemed rather obvious to me too. If your carbohydrate
processing mechanism is impaired, why overload your kidneys and your
bloodstream by eating it?

The problem is that low calorie, so called "balanced" diets are very hard to
stay with. For those of us who have failed at them, the problem is hunger
and it is very real. Lower carb diets seem to circumvent this extreme
hunger issue.

The way ANY diet works is by lowering caloric intake of course. NOT being
starving hungry is a big help.

--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")


--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food



  #30  
Old May 18th, 2004, 10:36 PM
gman99
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet

Jackie Patti wrote:
gman99 wrote:

A year long study with 132 people does NOT a true trial make...six
months is nothing....


Feel free to fund a larger long-term study.


I'm not the QUACK who made millions selling this ****...perhaps his heirs
should fund a study...sheep
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dr. ATKINS IS A QUACK Irv Finkleman Low Carbohydrate Diets 5 March 31st, 2004 12:37 PM
Uncovering the Atkins diet secret Diarmid Logan General Discussion 135 February 14th, 2004 05:56 PM
Atkins diet may reduce seizures in children with epilepsy Diarmid Logan General Discussion 23 December 14th, 2003 12:39 PM
erm, is this article TRUE to any extent? Steven C. \(Doktersteve\) Low Carbohydrate Diets 11 November 29th, 2003 08:43 PM
Now Harvard study backs up Atkins diet Diarmid Logan General Discussion 84 November 17th, 2003 12:31 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 WeightLossBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.