Increasing evidence supports carb diets for weight loss and improvement in cardiovascular disease (CVD);

Sure, why not?

A high-carb vegetarian diet will melt pounds off you.

It has been proved over and over again.

Just thought that you might want to know.

Mr. Natural-Health wrote:
Sure, why not?

A high-carb vegetarian diet will melt pounds off you.

It has been proved over and over again.

Just thought that you might want to know.

You can provide a cite I suppose? Let me guess, the esteemed "Journal
of 'Cause I Said So", May 2006 issue?

Carmen

Carmen wrote:
Mr. Natural-Health wrote:

A high-carb vegetarian diet will melt pounds off you.

It has been proved over and over again.

Just thought that you might want to know.

You can provide a cite I suppose? Let me guess, the esteemed "Journal
of 'Cause I Said So", May 2006 issue?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in595998.shtml gives
an example of a high-carb vegetarian diet causing weight loss without
any reduction of calories.

I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high
fructose soda pop diet.

IIRC, the body is inefficient at converting carbohydrates to fat so
that is a possible cause for the weight loss. Of course, the other
nutrients in a vegetarian diet might be helpful in burning calories.

--
Ron

Ron Peterson wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in595998.shtml gives
an example of a high-carb vegetarian diet causing weight loss without
any reduction of calories.

Bull****. That study was crap. The only way you lose weight on a high
carb diet is thru malnourishment and or abject starvation.


I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high
fructose soda pop diet.

Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no
refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and
proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are
lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods.


IIRC, the body is inefficient at converting carbohydrates to fat so
that is a possible cause for the weight loss. Of course, the other
nutrients in a vegetarian diet might be helpful in burning calories.

--
Ron

More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very
efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see
in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat.

There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning
calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very
important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health.
Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it.

Starvation of important animal-sourced nutrients will lead to weight
loss, but it will most definitely not lead to optimal health.

TC

On 5 May 2006 13:39:28 -0700, "TC" wrote:


Ron Peterson wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in595998.shtml gives
an example of a high-carb vegetarian diet causing weight loss without
any reduction of calories.

Bull****. That study was crap. The only way you lose weight on a high
carb diet is thru malnourishment and or abject starvation.

Uh no



I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high
fructose soda pop diet.

Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no
refined carbs.

Really? A couple of bananas and I am full.

You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and
proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are
lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods.

You don't need to "fill up" on animal fats and proteins to get the few
required nutrients as the rest can be found elsewhere.


IIRC, the body is inefficient at converting carbohydrates to fat so
that is a possible cause for the weight loss. Of course, the other
nutrients in a vegetarian diet might be helpful in burning calories.

--
Ron

More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very
efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see
in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat.

Funny how I always gain weight when I eat more fat? Of course fat has
more calories duh.


There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning
calories.

Activity is the key here


And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very
important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health.
Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it.

It is quite easy to get the required nutrients and protein on a low
fat diet. I think you are getting confused between a vegan diet and a
low fat/vegetarian diet.


Starvation of important animal-sourced nutrients will lead to weight
loss, but it will most definitely not lead to optimal health.

Oh really? So nutrient density is what causes obesity? LOL

jt wrote:
On 5 May 2006 13:39:28 -0700, "TC" wrote:


Ron Peterson wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in595998.shtml gives
an example of a high-carb vegetarian diet causing weight loss without
any reduction of calories.

Bull****. That study was crap. The only way you lose weight on a high
carb diet is thru malnourishment and or abject starvation.

Uh no

actually, yes....




I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high
fructose soda pop diet.

Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no
refined carbs.

Really? A couple of bananas and I am full.

Bananas are not refined carbs. They are a whole food carb.


You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and
proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are
lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods.

You don't need to "fill up" on animal fats and proteins to get the few
required nutrients as the rest can be found elsewhere.

You need fat and protein for proper satiation. And you need animal fats
and animal proteins. Many are essential nutrients, which mean that your
body can't make them form other sources. They can't be found in
non-animal sourced foods.



IIRC, the body is inefficient at converting carbohydrates to fat so
that is a possible cause for the weight loss. Of course, the other
nutrients in a vegetarian diet might be helpful in burning calories.

--
Ron

More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very
efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see
in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat.

Funny how I always gain weight when I eat more fat? Of course fat has
more calories duh.

Oddly enough, when I eat nothing but animal sourced fats and proteins
and whole food carbs, I find it virtually impossible to gain weight.
And I've specifically tested eating more and more fats and it has never
led to weight gain.

But, like your experience, it is just anecdotal.



There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning
calories.

Activity is the key here

With low carb, activity is useful in general, but not essential for
weight maintenance. Any diet that requires excessive excercise to
maintain weight is not a very effective diet, and is very impractical
in todays society..



And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very
important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health.
Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it.

It is quite easy to get the required nutrients and protein on a low
fat diet. I think you are getting confused between a vegan diet and a
low fat/vegetarian diet.

Bull****. By restricting fat you automatically restrict fat soluble
vitamins. By restricting animal proteins, you are automatically
restricting important essential proteins. We need copious amounts of
animal fats in our diets for optimal health. Any study of
hunter-gatherer societies show their fondness for animal fats.



Starvation of important animal-sourced nutrients will lead to weight
loss, but it will most definitely not lead to optimal health.

Oh really? So nutrient density is what causes obesity? LOL

How did you get to this stupidity?

Lack of food will make you thin, make you unhealthy, and will
eventually kill you. You may want to advocate that in the name of
vegetarianism, but I'd rather advocate a diet full of nutrition that
allows you to be of normal weight.

Eating the right nutrients in the optimal amounts will make you healthy
and thin. The nutrients necessary for optimal health includes copious
amounts of animal fats and proteins as well as nutrient dense whole
food carbs.

Food bereft of nutrients will fill the hole for a brief period of time,
but will not nourish you. Bird and cattle feed grain and corn and corn
sugars are not good human food. They lack many important nutrients in
large enough amounts and they contains way too much starch and sugars,
which has led to todays obesity crisis. Excessive carbs lead to
obesity.

Pork fat rules.

TC

TC wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:

I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high
fructose soda pop diet.

Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no
refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and
proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are
lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods.

I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that
it will cause one to lose weight.

What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't
available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good
sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is
needed?

More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very
efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see
in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat.

My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for converting
carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are produced by that
process?

There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning
calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very
important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health.

I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed. What
are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian diet?

Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it.

I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there
any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten besides
refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps?

--
Ron

Ron Peterson wrote:

TC wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:

I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high
fructose soda pop diet.

Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no
refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and
proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are
lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods.

I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that
it will cause one to lose weight.

What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't
available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good
sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is
needed?

More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very
efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see
in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat.

My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for converting
carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are produced by that
process?

There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning
calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very
important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health.

I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed. What
are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian diet?

Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it.

I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there
any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten besides
refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps?

--
Ron



watermellon?


--
MDS (Mister Doctor Sir)

Ron Peterson wrote:
:: TC wrote:
::: Ron Peterson wrote:
::
:::: I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high
:::: fructose soda pop diet.
::
::: Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no
::: refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats
::: and proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are
::: lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods.
::
:: I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that
:: it will cause one to lose weight.
::
:: What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't
:: available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good
:: sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is
:: needed?
::
::: More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very
::: efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will
::: see in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat.
::
:: My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for
:: converting carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are
:: produced by that process?
::
::: There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning
::: calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very
::: important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health.
::
:: I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed. What
:: are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian
:: diet?
::
::: Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at
::: it.
::
:: I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there
:: any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten
:: besides refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps?

Er, isn't tofu made from soy?

hehe.

Ron Peterson wrote:
TC wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:

I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high
fructose soda pop diet.

Any diet that you can stick with for any length of time. And
whatever that is, it's not the same diet from person to person.
What's evil is the diet that diet X is the only acceptable one,
no matter what X you use.

Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no
refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and
proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are
lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods.

By "whole food carbs" I take it you mean fiber plus low
glycemic index carbs? They give a full feeling. Compare
with protein and/or fat which make it longer until the
next time you feel hungry. Different forms of satiety.

I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that
it will cause one to lose weight.

I wasn't. They all do make the claim and i don't have an
issue with that. My issue is claiming that other plans don't
work for anyone, or that plan X is the only plan that works.
All of them work for someone and several types of plans
work for significant percentages of the population.

What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't
available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good
sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is
needed?

Something I've read about fats but don't know how to test
for - Certain populations can't convert plant omega-3s for
use so they need fish.

Vegitarian sources sometimes don't contain balanced amino
acid ratios. Eat a variety of types of plant food and that's covered.
Eat only one type of plant for months on end, bad idea.

More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very
efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see
in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat.

My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for converting
carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are produced by that
process?

The standard write-up in texts I've read goes like this -

Saturated fats can be manufactured by our bodies, can be
burned for fuel, and can be stored. As a result they are not
essential in the diet.

Monounsaturates cannot be manufactured by our bodies, can
be burned for fuel, and can not be stored. As a result they
tend to not contribute to fat deposits.

Omega-3 and -9 cannot be manufactured, can be burned, can
be stored, are needed for cell membranes and other metabolic
processes. As a result they are essential in the diet. Where
I wonder is conversion among the types present in plant and
animal foods.

The above is sure to be over simplified.

There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning
calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very
important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health.

I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed.

Preventing absorbtion is slightly differen from increasing
metabolism.

What
are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian diet?

B12. Seems to be present in algae so it's likely to be in
some other plants.

Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it.

I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there
any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten besides
refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps?

The question becomes how little meat you eat and how much
variety in plants you eat. Go too low in meat and the variety
required in the plant food goes up. Not an all or nothing
proposition but one of levels of effort. Eating meat makes it
much easier to get the basics. Then again switching to all
meat makes it hard again. Better in the middle than at either
edge.