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low carb diets, not necessarily



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 7th, 2008, 09:59 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Cheri
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Posts: 472
Default low carb diets, not necessarily


BlueBrooke wrote in message speaking of Susan Powter

But yeah! She's still there! I don't know if she's still doing
infomercials. Now that I have satellite, I'm spared those
indignities. ;-)


I hope she got a new hair do at least. ;-)

Cheri


  #22  
Old August 7th, 2008, 11:39 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Kaz Kylheku
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Posts: 347
Default low carb diets, not necessarily

On 2008-08-07, john wrote:

The ``support'' part refers to helping people who are trying to diet. It
doesn't refer to supporting the dieting ideology itself!


Apparently you still haven't learned how to read. The support refers
to the low-carb diet.


Only according to you, an apparently self-supported enforcer of the topic.

The ``alt.support.diet'' part in fact refers to the fact that this newsgroup is
under the ``alt.support.diet'' hierarchy, along with a number of other
newsgroups.

Newsgroups not only have titles, but descriptions. Though this newsgroup is
missing such a description, a a couple of other newsgroups in the
``alt.support.diet'' hierarchy do have descriptions which unambiguously denote
them as discussion groups.

alt.support.diet.paleolithic

Discussion of the Paleolithic Diet concept

(Not: ``Recitations of Paleolithic Diet dogma.'')

alt.support.diet.fit-for-life

Discuss the Fit-For-Life diet program.

(Not: ``Odes sung in praise of Fit-For-Life.'')

Read the title of this group, if you can.


At this point it is appropriate to say that I will do as I please within the
limits of what I, with utmost care, perceive to be the topicality.

People who are dieting are not helped by lies, such as that energy
doesn't matter.


I think you are citing the first law of thermodynamics. Of course,
that theory is basically irrefutable for all our collective knowledge
but that the problem is that this scientific law is being grossly
misapplied.


Tubby, if you apply it properly, it will work.

Issue 1: The body is not a perfect system.


The word you are looking for is ``closed system''.

lungs, our noses, and more importantly


A closed system is delineated by accounting for the inputs and outputs,
which is done. Lung output, feces, etc. All have been studied.

our genitalia and our anuses constantly expunge matter.


Like what you're doing now, for instance.

It is uncontestable that fat is turned into
ketoids and we release those ketoids is all sorts of different ways
without necessarily storing it as fat.


That may be true, but I woudln't bet on this as an action plan for weight loss,
especially based on the past results of the majority of those who have.

Issue 2: Calories are not a physical entity, they are a measure of
potential energy.


Calories are a measure of energy, period. Potential energy isn't
a different kind of energy with different units. The kinetic energy of a
moving train can be expressed as calories. The amount of sunlight hitting a
square meter of area can be expressed as calories per second, etc.
Kilowatt-hours can be converted to calories, since a watt measures energy per
unit time (power), reducing to energy when multiplied by time, etc. A 100
horsepower engine can produce, at its peak output, 17.8 kcal per
second.

However, we don't burn "fat", our cells utilize
ketones and glucose.


That's a minute detail, after pondering which, you're no thinner.

Congratulations on being ... well-googled.

Furthermore there at least 4 different path ways
that foods become usable energy, and by definition, there are most
likely as many discrete levels of efficiency for all these processes.
Two of these are dramatically different in nature (ketones vs.
glucose) which makes the assumption of equal efficiency suspicious.


The energy efficiency of various kinds of foods can be summarized as
their thermic effect. A dieter doesn't need to understand this to a level
deeper than that protein has the greatest thermic effect, followed by
carbs, followed by fats. Even that is advanced material that is largely
irrelevant to someone with a lot to lose.

Issue 3: A calorie is _not_ equal to how or why your body stores fat.
One is measure of heat, and the other is a complicated metabolic
process. We are concerned with storing fat. It is on its face an
improper comparison.

I've tried a lot of different ways of eating. All the ways that worked
had only one thing in common: reduced calories.


There have been documented studies which demonstrate that
equal calorie diets based on different caloric composition result in


In other words, studies demonstrate that loss is possible on various
diets.

By the way, does ``documented'' equal well-designed and well-conducted?

All studies whose results we can find on the Internet or in
libraries are documented.

Undocumented studies would be ones that produce no documents, and so
we don't know anything about those.

different degrees of weight loss. It's not magic.


It's not magic; it's adaptation of expenditure to intake.

Except maybe in rarely occuring, bizarre metabolic disorders, this adaptation
has a limited range.

The composition of the diet can only give you so much advantage. That
advantage can be expressed in some kind of finite energy figure.

By manipulating what you eat (and perhaps, when and how often), you may be able
to get away with eating a more calories, compared to some other way of eating.

But if you overeat on this optimized diet, you will get fat. If you get fat or
stay fat on this optimized diet, no further manipulation of the diet will help
you. Only eating less of it.

There is no way of composing the diet such that you can eat unrestricted
amounts, without fat gain.

No credible low-carb proponents claim that there is. Only a handful of
permanently fat loonies on Usenet. Atkins himself wrote that his diet is
``not a license to gorge''.

I will even give you this: let's assume that the mainstream low-carb diet is
the optimal way to eat so that you can pack away the most calories with the
least gain.

The problem is that if you approach eating with the attitude of ``how much
can I get away with stuffing into myself'', that will generally reflect in the
quality of your results.

Its not a subversion
of physics. It's simple biology. Our body has two ways of processing
energy and demonstrates different propensity for fat storage with each
one. It's not a stretch unless you're insisting on a naive model of
how the body operates.


If a dieter approaches the problem with the right attitude, the naive model is
more than a sufficient level of detail.

Detailed models are only applicable for advanced fat loss.

If you do the big stuff wrong, the small stuff won't help you.

The average tub just needs to eat less, according to the simple model, which
will work like a charm for the vast, vast majority.

If everyone with fat to lose makes a list of what he is doing wrong, overeating
will be at the top of it. For many people, it's the /only/ thing on the list,
the only thing they are doing wrong. (Even in cases when they think they
have tried ``everything'', in vain, for years!)
  #23  
Old August 8th, 2008, 02:23 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
jcderkoeing
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Posts: 200
Default low carb diets, not necessarily


"Kaz Kylheku" wrote in message
...

wrote nothing of note...


Wrestlers, boxers, and weightlifters have used a low carb diet for decades
to lower their weight and bodyfat, because
it works.

Now get over it and move along, dimwit.


  #24  
Old August 8th, 2008, 02:28 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Marsha[_2_]
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Posts: 56
Default low carb diets, not necessarily

jcderkoeing wrote:

"Kaz Kylheku" wrote in message
...

wrote nothing of note...


Wrestlers, boxers, and weightlifters have used a low carb diet for decades
to lower their weight and bodyfat, because
it works.

Now get over it and move along, dimwit.



A voice of reason in the distance? Nah, couldn't be....difficult to
recognize....signal-to-noise ratio too high...SOS

Marsha/Ohio

  #25  
Old August 8th, 2008, 02:43 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
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Posts: 993
Default low carb diets, not necessarily

On Aug 7, 2:56*pm, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
On 2008-08-07, john wrote:



This is a discussion group where everyone is entitled to his opinion,
provided it is on topic.


Read the title of the group, if you can. * It says
alt.SUPPORT.diet.low-carb, Not alt.lets.debate.diet.low-carb.


Fact is that the low-carb supporters do use this newsgroup to debate.

Without opposing views, there is no true debate.

The ``support'' part refers to helping people who are trying to diet. *It
doesn't refer to supporting the dieting ideology itself!



Can you be that stupid? You just show up here out of the blue,
make an ass of yourself and everyone in this entire thread says you
don't know what the hell you're talking about, and now you have the
nervet to tell the rest of us what this group is about?

Get lost.




People who are dieting are not helped by lies, such as that energy
doesn't matter.




As a successful dieter, and one who doesn't envy and hate even more
successful dieters, I'm actually more in a position to support others.

I've tried a lot of different ways of eating. All the ways that worked
had only one thing in common: reduced calories.

You cannot possibly be this stupid and remember to breathe.


Insulting like this is completely ineffective when it's the bulk of your
message. *You will earn the privilege of insulting me properly when you
actually cobble together a coherent argument.


  #26  
Old August 8th, 2008, 04:00 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Kaz Kylheku
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Posts: 347
Default low carb diets, not necessarily

On 2008-08-08, jcderkoeing wrote:
Wrestlers, boxers, and weightlifters have used a low carb diet for decades


Like yourself? LOL

to lower their weight and bodyfat, because
it works.


Not the popularized, all-you-can-eat, calories-don't-exist, non-diet
imitation of the diet.

They are also not on that cutting diet perpetually.

Now get over it and move along, dimwit.


Yeah, you're really socking it to me, perma-tub!

  #27  
Old August 8th, 2008, 04:05 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Kaz Kylheku
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default low carb diets, not necessarily

On 2008-08-08, jcderkoeing wrote:
^^

Persistent typo in his own name.

Wrestlers, boxers, and weightlifters have used a low carb diet for decades


Like yourself? LOL

to lower their weight and bodyfat, because
it works.


Not the popularized, all-you-can-eat, calories-don't-exist, non-diet
imitation of the diet.

They are also not on that cutting diet perpetually.

Now get over it and move along, dimwit.


Yeah, you're really socking it to me, perma-tub!

  #28  
Old August 8th, 2008, 04:35 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,866
Default low carb diets, not necessarily

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
jcderkoeing wrote:

Wrestlers, boxers, and weightlifters have used a low carb diet for decades


Like yourself? LOL


A pain in the butt troll JCdK may be, but he's buff. When he
asks others for images he supplies them of himself.

Not the popularized, all-you-can-eat, calories-don't-exist, non-diet
imitation of the diet.


Which no one but idiot trolls like you discuss on ASDLC. Check.
Others discuss what's in the books or their own personal plan
evolved from the books and their own personal experiences.
  #29  
Old August 8th, 2008, 09:10 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Cheri
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 472
Default low carb diets, not necessarily


BlueBrooke wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 15:05:12 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku
wrote:


Not the popularized, all-you-can-eat, calories-don't-exist, non-diet
imitation of the diet.


Ah! So you haven't actually educated yourself on the very subject

you
are so seemingly passionate about. Oops!


How surprising eh? LOL

Cheri


  #30  
Old August 8th, 2008, 09:55 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
jcderkoeing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default low carb diets, not necessarily


"Marsha" wrote in message ...
jcderkoening wrote:

"Kaz Kylheku" wrote in message
...

wrote nothing of note...


Wrestlers, boxers, and weightlifters have used a low carb diet for
decades to lower their weight and bodyfat, because
it works.

Now get over it and move along, dimwit.


A voice of reason in the distance? Nah, couldn't be....difficult to
recognize....signal-to-noise ratio too high...SOS


Even the noise is fading now in Usenet.



 




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