Dr. Atkins' Dietetic Revolution: Mu Critique?

MU wrote:
|| On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:23:50 -0500, Roger Zoul wrote:
||
|||||| Not possible.
|||||
||||| I thought you two liked research.
|||
||| It depends.
||
|| This OP was research, ZoulFool.

Bull****.

"Mirek Fídler" wrote:

Hyperketonemia leading to higher rates of lipid peroxidation would be
the most pressing cardiovascular concern.

Is this claim of yours still based on single croatian study?

The biochemistry of hyperketonemia causing higher rates of lipid
peroxidation (via increased production of reactive oxygen species or
ROS) has been confirmed multiple times by more than one independent
group.

For example (from Lousiana State University):

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3A222DF9

Another example (from the University of Oklahoma):

http://makeashorterlink.com/?O1F261DF9

Other examples:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J21323DF9

http://makeashorterlink.com/?M23321DF9

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z25362DF9

http://makeashorterlink.com/?F26312DF9

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J17322DF9

Or you have something new in this area?

President Clinton's recent experience with low-carbing would be a new
development.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

Roger Zoul wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
|||
||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
||||| Owen Lowe wrote:
|||||
|||||| In article
|||||| 1102559455.8118204e37d1abc3b1e64c1493df232f@teran ews, "Dr.
|||||| Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
||||||
||||||| 10-15 lbs of glycogen coming back (imagine expanding overcooked
||||||| pasta).
||||||
|||||| Sorry, but pasta's not on the menu.
||||||
|||||
||||| Now you know why there is rapid weight gain when "cheating" on a
||||| low-carb diet so that you won't be as concerned about it. Fwiw,
||||| glycogen stores cause no harm.
|||||
|||
||| Well known here before you and mucus came along.
|||
||
|| Not for those who are buying Atkin's products. If this truth were
|| known to the *public* (No, ASDLC is not the *public*), there would
|| be less sales.

Then why don't you go educate the *public*?

Not what I am called to do. Instead, I educate the public on the 2PD
Approach.


Also, what does this have to do with Atkin's products?

Those who are buying Atkin's products don't seem to know about glycogen
stores.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:57:50 -0500, Roger Zoul wrote:

|| This OP was research, ZoulFool.

Bull****.

Really? lol

Schweiz Med Wochenschr. 1977 Jul 23;107(29):1017-250

Have fun, Mr. Research.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:57:50 -0500, Roger Zoul wrote:

|| This OP was research, ZoulFool.

Bull****.

Really? lol

Schweiz Med Wochenschr. 1977 Jul 23;107(29):1017-250

Have fun, Mr. Research.

MU wrote:
|| On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:57:50 -0500, Roger Zoul wrote:
||
||||| This OP was research, ZoulFool.
|||
||| Bull****.
||
|| Really? lol
||
|| Schweiz Med Wochenschr. 1977 Jul 23;107(29):1017-250

Oh, that's research. If something from this source is what you were
presented in the OP, why did you not identify it as such instead of giving
the impression that you wrote it? You're simply full of it.

MU wrote:
|| On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:57:50 -0500, Roger Zoul wrote:
||
||||| This OP was research, ZoulFool.
|||
||| Bull****.
||
|| Really? lol
||
|| Schweiz Med Wochenschr. 1977 Jul 23;107(29):1017-250

Oh, that's research. If something from this source is what you were
presented in the OP, why did you not identify it as such instead of giving
the impression that you wrote it? You're simply full of it.

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
|||
||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
||||| Roger Zoul wrote:
||||||
|||||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|||||||| Owen Lowe wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| In article
||||||||| 1102559455.8118204e37d1abc3b1e64c1493df232f@teran ews, "Dr.
||||||||| Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
|||||||||
|||||||||| 10-15 lbs of glycogen coming back (imagine expanding
|||||||||| overcooked pasta).
|||||||||
||||||||| Sorry, but pasta's not on the menu.
|||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| Now you know why there is rapid weight gain when "cheating" on
|||||||| a low-carb diet so that you won't be as concerned about it.
|||||||| Fwiw, glycogen stores cause no harm.
||||||||
||||||
|||||| Well known here before you and mucus came along.
||||||
|||||
||||| Not for those who are buying Atkin's products. If this truth were
||||| known to the *public* (No, ASDLC is not the *public*), there would
||||| be less sales.
|||
||| Then why don't you go educate the *public*?
||
|| Not what I am called to do. Instead, I educate the public on the 2PD
|| Approach.
||
||
||| Also, what does this have to do with Atkin's products?
||
|| Those who are buying Atkin's products don't seem to know about
|| glycogen stores.

And who would you know? Do you stand in the stores and ask them?

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
|||
||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
||||| Roger Zoul wrote:
||||||
|||||| Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
|||||||| Owen Lowe wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| In article
||||||||| 1102559455.8118204e37d1abc3b1e64c1493df232f@teran ews, "Dr.
||||||||| Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
|||||||||
|||||||||| 10-15 lbs of glycogen coming back (imagine expanding
|||||||||| overcooked pasta).
|||||||||
||||||||| Sorry, but pasta's not on the menu.
|||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| Now you know why there is rapid weight gain when "cheating" on
|||||||| a low-carb diet so that you won't be as concerned about it.
|||||||| Fwiw, glycogen stores cause no harm.
||||||||
||||||
|||||| Well known here before you and mucus came along.
||||||
|||||
||||| Not for those who are buying Atkin's products. If this truth were
||||| known to the *public* (No, ASDLC is not the *public*), there would
||||| be less sales.
|||
||| Then why don't you go educate the *public*?
||
|| Not what I am called to do. Instead, I educate the public on the 2PD
|| Approach.
||
||
||| Also, what does this have to do with Atkin's products?
||
|| Those who are buying Atkin's products don't seem to know about
|| glycogen stores.

And who would you know? Do you stand in the stores and ask them?

Thanks for your critque, AC.

Mu

================================================== ===

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:46:01 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

MU wrote:

1. Very fat people die earlier than people of normal weight because
hypertension, diabetes and coronary disease are more frequent among the
markedly obese. Most obese subjects, however, are only slightly overweight
and their mortality is not significantly elevated. Reasons for dieting are
more often psychological than somatic.

There are many who develop metabolic syndrome (MetS) with just being
mild to moderately overweight. This number is growing and is now
estimated to be 40-60 million Americans at higher risk for
cardiovascular events.

2. Reducing diets are ineffective because the obese rarely follow them.

Ime, they are ineffective because they miss the boat by failing to
educate people to "watch *how much* they are eating" and instead have
people "watch what they are eating."

The "see food diet" simply does not work.

Total fasting and intestinal bypass may provide better results, but are
more dangerous.

Fasting is not sustainable. Bariatic surgery still fails when folks do
not show they can watch how much they are eating.

3. Atkins' diet eliminates carbohydrates from food without restricting
protein and fat intake. Deprived of carbohydrates, the body uses fat for
fuel.

The initially burns fat very efficiently until it runs out of body carbs
(glycogen).

A small part of metabolized fat is eliminated in the urine as ketone
bodies, and this is why such diets are called "ketogenic". They have been
known at least since 1863.

This starts happening when glycogen stores are used up.


4. Caloric loss due to ketonuria does not exceed 100 Cal/day in the
non-diabetic. It is maximal during total fasting and cannot be increased by
a ketogenic diet.

The ketonuria is comparable to what occurs during fasting. For this
reason, many will say that Atkin's simulates the appetite suppression
that occurs with prolonged fasting.


5. In the short run, such diets produce rapid weight loss due to polyuria.

There is a diuresis. Also, the glycogen stored up in liver and muscle
can weigh up to 10-15 lbs. This glycogen has a high water content (like
play dough) and is used up within a few days resulting in a rapid 10-15
lb weight loss.

On the other hand, refeeding carbohydrates causes water retention and
weight gain.

10-15 lbs of glycogen coming back (imagine expanding overcooked pasta).

6. The diet decreases appetite: some patients eat less without feeling
severe hunger and without measuring their food intake.

Ironically, better health leads to healthier (ie bigger) appetites.


7. Orthostatic hypotension, fatigue, and nausea are frequent, despite what
Dr. ATKINS claims.

8. The diet increases plasma cholesterol and uric acid. It may be dangerous
in diabetes (anorexia, acidosis) and in heart or kidney failure
(hypokalemia).

Hyperketonemia leading to higher rates of lipid peroxidation would be
the most pressing cardiovascular concern. When there is weight loss
with the Atkin's diet, cholesterol should still decrease though there
may be a higher amount of oxidized LDL which may lead to more
atherogenic potential. Hyperuricemia is a problem primarily for those
predisposed to gout.


9. The diet, though far from good, is better than the book. ATKINS'
theories are at best half-truths, and the results he claims lack
credibility. The obese subject's disappointment with traditional reducing
diets and the book's hard-sell style account for ATKINS' success.

The rapid 10-15 lb glycogen weight loss hooks a lot of people during
induction.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew